@psprings -  If you don’t like the price, don’t drive on the Greenway. There are “public” roads you can use. Least you forget, the Greenway is a “private” road.

Let them charge whatever they want. The higher the price, the less people use it and the less money they make.

The Greenway charges the highest tolls in the Washington area because the Virginia legislature let them do it. The Australian corporation that was given the Greenway lease by the legislature portrayed itself on the brink of bankruptcy in justifying the record tolls. In fact, the firm was presenting a shell company financial statement. The real owners have billions of dollars (American) in assets—making the rate increase unjustified.
Republican Rep. Frank Wolf was going to get to the bottom of this scam but somehow, like most of our representatives in Washington and Richmond, they give up easily when fat cats are on the prowl.

What some of you seem to forget is that even though this is a private road, it was built to serve the public.  Allowing a private company to build it was suppose to take some pressure off state funding, but it has turned out to be a failed experiment and of course Loudoun County was the guinea pig.

The public is not well served by a road that does not offer distance pricing.  Why should local users pay the same amount for going a mile as through users do for going 14 miles?  Is that fair?  Apparently, the Highway Corporation Act of 1988 failed to require such a pricing structure.  Now, the Governor and General Assembly should address that by amending the legislation.

The Silver Line is a non-factor for me.  I work in Pentagon City.  If I were to take the Silver Line from Ashburn, it would take forever as the plan is to not have an express train from points west into Arlington or DC.  So, I would stop everywhere in between Ashburn and Arlington where I would switch to a Blue or Yellow line train.

I mean to be honest there is a perfectly viable transit solution for me right now in the Loudoun County commuter bus.  I can ride to the Pentagon and walk to my office.  Just with current gas prices, it is still cheaper for me to drive myself by a few dollars a day.  If I were a federal employee with transit benefits, the better choice would be very clear.  I’d take that bus anyday over the proposed Silver Line.

One big plus a lot of commuters will be the completion of the Silver Line (Metro) out to Dulles Airport and Ashburn. Linking up Reston, Herndon, and Tysons. Those who commute along the toll road might want to start thinking about parking spaces at future metro stations.

Yes Cindy, it is awful.  Unfortunately my significant other bought a home out here.  If I was single tomorrow, I would move back to Fairfax or in Arlington closer to my office.

With that said, the only “price” I don’t like is the stress.  A 1 bedroom apt near my office is like $1800/month.  Even with my gas, DTR tolls, and parking, commuting from Loudoun is “cheaper” than living near my office and I live in a 4 bedroom house here.  Depreciation and maintenance on my old Honda are next to nothing.

If more people examined their finances very closely then they’d realize of the cost of living in Loudoun County and commuting to another county for work is really outrageous.  Either you pay the high tolls or pay with your time.  And in some rare cases, if your children in daycare aren’t picked up by s certain time, you’re paying extra for the overtime care.  I know my ex-neighbor uses the Greenway because if her daughters aren’t picked up by 7 PM then the overtime fee at her daycare center is obviously much more than the $4.50.  I lived in Loudoun my whole life (except when in college) and once I was working full-time and really paying attention to my finances, I realized that living in a county I am familiar with and love are not reasons enough to justify the expense.  I’ve since moved closer to my job (and an area that is very populated with companies if I should ever need a new job) and have saved a great deal of money in tolls, gas, and stress.  I could never imagine going back to sitting in traffic for an hour each way.  I now get off at 5 PM and am home by 5:30 with dinner and dishes finished by 7.  It used to be off at 5, home at 6 or so, dinner at almost 7, finishing up household chores at almost 8, resting for an hour or so, and then to bed.

Whatadumb, etc.:

The answer to your question is obvious:  it depends on where your priorities fall.  Are you willing to sacrifice time at home and spend extra time and money driving so you can be in a certain house in a certain neighborhood, or are you willing to sacrifice that certain house in a certain neighborhood so you can spend more time at home and less time/money on the road.  Contrary to your suggestion, there’s no right or wrong answer.  It just depends on the individual and his or her preferences and circumstances. 
Yikes, man.

Dear Alby and Loudoun Taxpayer:  You are spot on.  It’s private, if you don’t like it, then don’t use it.  I just wish everyone felt the same about the confiscatory taxes the Gov’t takes from us for all sorts of pork.  These tolls are NOTHING compared to what VA and Uncle Sam takes from us.

From the moderator: This post has been deleted. The user violated the Loudoun Times-Mirror’s terms of service.

Craig,

Of course their only concern is profit.  They are not running a charity.  If people are willing to continue paying why would they want to reduce them?  100,000 cars at $4 is the same as 200,000 cars at $2.  Plus, with less cars they need fewer resources and the wear and tear on their road is significantly less.  Trust me, they have impact analysts going over every rate hike.

The only good news is that the public roads around the Greenway are improving all the time.  The Sycolin rd paving was a huge improvement that made traveling that road bearable.  There is also a toll-free interchange at Battelfield Parkway and the Greenway now, which makes it easier to use Evergeen Mills rd.  In a few years, rt 28 and rt 7 from there to Leesburg will be all freeway.  At that point, I won’t really care how high the Greenway tolls are!

If they are really interested in profits, then they would lower the price so that more people would use it.  $4.50 down to $3 pp and they would have even more money. Except, they don’t want more users, just more profit. The more people that use it, the slower traffic would get.  So they slowly stick it to whoever is desparate enough to pay.  Once revenue drops, then they’ll rethink it. Rt. 7, Rt. 50 and Rt. 66 are the only, ONLY alternatives.  Which one is better, none of them. So for right now, the cost of gas and wear and tear on the car and my patience is higher than the fees charged by the toll road.  Its just that you actually see the bill on a regular basis that makes you think twice about it.

Bizzy,

I live five miles from work and moved there for the same reason as you.  Even at five miles out, where 4 of it is the W&OD; I grew overly concerned of the drivers paying more attention to their cell phones than the road and stopped.  Plus, W&OD; has incredibly poor access.  I can’t believe there is not access points at every neighborhood and shopping mall like Wegmans.

The Greenway is a business.  Vote with your dollars by not using it if you think it’s overpriced.

And to be clear, I meant the choice of living close to work, not the choice of biking to work.  I realize that’s not an option for many.

Alby:

A-freaking-men.  I chose to live within 4 miles of my job so I could bike to work.  That same choice is available to most.  True, you might have to sacrifice some square footage or some bells and whistles (as I did).  It depends on what your priorities are.  My priority is spending time at home vice sitting in traffic.

The Virginia Highway Corporation Act allows toll increases of inflation + 1% every year.  That can compound into some very high tolls after a few decades!

If the construction bonds were issued at a fixed rate, then there should be only a minimal annual adjustment in tolls for maintenance and operations increases.  It’s like your mortgage payment, where the P & I portion for a fixed-rate loan stays the same but the taxes and insurance portion generally go up every year.

I’ve lived in Loudoun for 35 years and have used the Greenway frequently.  I’m glad Virginia allowed the private road to be built because at the pace the Government does anything we would probably still be sitting here today with NO alternative to Rt 7 and Rt 50.

No doubt the toll is high but it is a private road.  Additionally, the Virginia SCC oversees the rate increases so maybe some of the vitriol should be directed to the Government and not the private company that owns the road. 

Here is a link from to a report written by the Auditor of Public Accounts several years ago regarding the Greenway.  It may help some with understanding the history and how the current toll rates came to be.

http://dls.state.va.us/GROUPS/transaccount/meetings/120507/APA.pdf

H. Smith - Maybe you shouldn’t live in Purcellville. Maybe Sterling or Chantilly is a better choice given your issues. There is something to be said about where you live in relation to your job.

The Greenway is a “PRIVATE ROAD”. If you use it, you must pay for it. Its as simple as that. If you refuse to use it, the state roads still exist for your pleasure. Crying about the toll a private operator of a road charges is silly.

Don’t like the Greenway, take RT.28 to the Dulles toll road. Don’t like either, take Route 7 or Route 50 or I-66. There are other options.

I live in Purcellville and work right across from the Airport just off Rt. 28.  It sickens me to see how the tolls have increased as they have.  This road is getting paved with our hard earned dollar as this Australian Co. grows rich from our sweat.  I stopped using the toll road after the last increase.  I now use Rt.7 to Rt.28, leaving home around 6-6:15 AM and am in my office by 6:50 AM. I work a straight 8 hrs. and leave. I only use it IF there is an emergency that I need to get home to quickly. Yes I have small children but my daycare provider is willing to work with me. Plus my children go right back to sleep when I drop them off. My solution for me, after speaking with upper management was to come in early and leave early, plus work from home one day a week.  So my day light hours are spent with my children and I don’t sit in traffic on either road.  Where are our elected officials when we need them, cause they’re going to ask where their votes are come election time!!!

I hate big government, but building roads is one of the few businesses they should be in.  The Greenway was the first private road built in the Commonwealth since 1816 and for good reason.  Here’s a few things that make private roads more expensive:

* Capital costs - The government can issue tax-free bonds at a much lower interest rate than open market rates,
* Tax burden - As a private corporation, TRIP II, the current owner of the Greenway, must pay taxes.  The Greenway website says they paid $3.1 million in local real property taxes alone in 2007.  It’s all passed on to the road users,
* Dividends paid to investors - TRIP II is in this business to make a profit.  Who can blame them?  Like any corporation, their stockholders demand a return on their investment.

I live in Leesburg and according to Google Maps, I “should” take the Greenway home.  It is just too expensive to consider as a daily option.  Not to mention that I carpool with someone who lives in Brambleton, so I would have to pay two tolls to get on and get off since its not based on mileage. 

I take the Toll Road to 28 and Waxpool.  Or if I drive solo I just go up to Route 7 and deal with it.  I leave early enough where traffic heading in isn’t an issue, but coming home can be hit or miss.  I’ll gladly deal with it to not pay the Aussies their exorbitant tolls.

The only time I’d use the Greenway is if I am running late for a flight and can’t take a chance on traffic. 

If Wolf wants to actually fix this problem, he can get the Commonwealth the money to buy the damn thing outright and make it a public highway.  Him and his GOP brothers in arms preach about privatization all day long…well here is the result Frank. 

He is right about the signage though.  By the time you realize how much the Greenway is, its too late to get off.

Republicans should be proud of the Dulles Greenway - they’ve been saying for years that privatizing everything government is the way to go.

The answer is simple, With all this money from building roads in the area, take some of that money and build a 6 lane highway right next to the Greenway - from end to end 3 lanes on either side, right up to their property line. Simple - put the privateers out of business.

John:
I’m going to take a stab at answering your question…
In the evening, I believe a lot of Greenway avoiders exit the DTR at 28 before the massive Greenway toll hits.  From 28, they take alternate routes (i.e. Waxpool, 606, 7) west. 
Also, many people that work in Reston/Herndon avoid the DTR by cutting through Herndon, then taking 606 west to 28.  Check out the 606/Herndon Parkway intersection between 5:00 and 6:30.  But try to do so as a pedestrian or in a helicopter.  Yikes.

IIRC, the tolls can only go up if “the increase does not cause a loss of traffic on the Greenway.” I think we have hit that point.  I go down Waxpool, Ashburn Farms, and whatever they call that road twice a month.  Until the last increase, I went down the Greenway.  Now I go donw 28 to Waxpool.  The increase did shove me off the Greenway.

Revenue for the toll road is down, officials say, partly because drivers, fed up with increasing costs, are using an already congested Route 28 as an alternative.

How can that be since the Toll Road goes East/West and Rt. 28 goes North/South????  That comment doesn’t make any sense!!!

For those who say that the work of the private sector is superior to the government, the Greenway certainly comes to mind.

When will Northern va get all the toll road money back? Initially, it would go away after being paid for but the toll road continues. The greenway is highway robbery. Not sure why Northern va has become it’s own state??? Really, what does the rest of Virginia bring to our area? And why should toll road users pay for metro coming to dulles?

3D:

Yes, yes, and just me, I guess

I dont take it and if I do, I run the damn thing anyway.  I run it all the time, have been for 15 years.  Love it, they are dumb.  I just cover the tag.  Perfect solution…

It is a private road, built with private money, operated by a private business.  If you don’t like what they charge, don’t use it.  If you don’t like the public roads, just look to our Board of Supervisors.  The anti-growth members fight every road or road widening project proposed.  As an example just review the recent Countywide Transportation plan.

Holy socialist toll monger!! Frank Wolf wants to get state government to tell a private company what to charge for use of its private property?  EGADS!!!  No Frank, say it ain’t so!!!

I agree, definitely highway robbery

bizzy said, “And if you moved in while tolls were reasonable, you should have been aware of historical trends - tolls generally go up.”

Is that a fact?  Are you aware that the tolls on the Dulles Toll Road remained constant for 21 years until they decided to fund the Metro from the wallets of the toll road users? 

Who could have imagined 10 years ago that tolls on both roads would get so high?  It’s highway robbery and will only get worse.

The tolls are WAY beyond what is needed to maintain the road and give the company a profit.  They are being raised to control traffic and keep the road speeds up.  This is grossly unfair to lower class workers and soon the toll road will just be a wave of high-end luxury cars.  I wouldn’t be so upset if the state wasn’t STEALING from NOVA taxpayers and not expanding other routes that people could use.

When moving to this area, my wife and I considered homes in Ashburn.  Then we did the math and figured out how much it would cost for both of us to use the Greenway en route to our full-time jobs.  It was staggering.  It was a big reason for choosing to live elsewhere.
I trust everyone had the same opportunity to do the same math.  Thus, there shouldn’t be any complaining about the “tolls v. family time” dilemma.  And if you moved in while tolls were reasonable, you should have been aware of historical trends - tolls generally go up.

Why would the US let a foreign country dictate our roads. That money is leaving our country and hurting our citizens. I agree, Redpath just lost a lot of votes.

Hey Mr. Redpath, I think your stance on the Dulles Greenway just sealed your fate in the next election.  I could be wrong though.

I cannot believe that a “true” libertarian would even admit to using a highway - I thought that was a point of honor with libertarians, to deny themselves some uses, for their principles.  I suspect Ayn Rand would not approve of Mr. Redpath.