I have visited this stadium is constructed beautifully as you can view the player and the game very clearly.
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both elected with the new board in November 2007, were considered key, swing votes on the plan.Famous Quotes by Angelina Jolie

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I ask Supervisor Lori Waters after stating that “Kincora Village will net $170 million in tax revenues over a 19-year period,” how much of that have you committed to lowering MY real property tax bill for the next 19 years?

You are correct I meant countryside blvd and rt 7

thanks sterling resident

@Leej:
There already is an interchange at route 7 and Cascades parkway, and it has been there for 15 years.

Henry, the only comment I would make about your feeling of a need to move to Fairfax, is that it would seem to be more in line with your implied “smart” growth beliefs to fulfil their tenet of living closer to your job anyway, right?

Oh the town town center town center.

First it is a way out dated boring mall.

Second what proffers are we getting from the proposed village center next to the mall??? I have heard of nothing that compares to Kincora’s proffers. What is the slow building but boring and very stable developer Lerner the King of Loudoun.

Further the Lerners ruined the design of the Nationals baseball stadium. Lerners are good financially stable developers that are very slow to build anything except kid attracting garden apartments on the town center site which is NOT urban housing. If the BOS approves Lerners proposed village center without getting a interchange at rt 7 and cascades parkway then this BOS is really dumb.

Henry, check your facts, the Planning staff were recommending denial based on a bunch of reasons, mostly the timing of when the roads would get built relative to the amount of development (those condos and office space), and then the scr@w job on the $$ contributions to offset the fiscal impacts to the County. All along their recommendations were ignored (and that of the financial people too!!), the Planning Commission worked on it until they could say yes, and then the BOS squeaked it by 5-4. So much for listening to the people you hire to give you advice.  Yeah, there are lots of other similar developments around it (ONe Loudoun and what Dulles Town Center will eventually be), but you really can’t make a decision on what is going on on other properties, you need to say is this the best development here. And w/ the details in those proffers, it was not the best…it was only OK, par for the course, and par is why Loudoun operates the way it does now. If you like par, fine, but I think our Board should strive for the best, and they whiffed on Kincora.

For those complaining about the quality of play.  Already, one player who started the season in the Atlantic League is currently playing in the bigs, for the Oakland Athletics.  About 20 others are in AA or AAA.  There are reasons for players being free agents besides a lack of talent.  It’s possible that they were just in an organization that they were blocked at their position (for instance, if they were a first baseman in St. Louis’s system, they’d have no chance to advance).  The quality of players for the Atlantic League is actually above AA.

I might as well move to Fairfax at this point.  This area is soon going to be just as congested.  At least I’ll have a shorter commute from Fairfax.  I really think everyone in the Loudoun Planning office are brain dead.  Anyone with basic knowledge of sound urban planning principles wouldn’t recommend a project like this so close to Route 28, Route 7, and the planned One Loudoun project (aka..the exact same thing a few miles up the road).  Apparently 5 people on the BOS are just as blind as well.  Either that or they are “influenced” by the developer.

Great idea, but honestly, the plan is weak as i does not fully address the infrastructure issues.  Traffic is already bad in the area and this plan, despite its appeal, will generate traffic and other problems.  But, I can’t complain any more, as I am leaving the county for environs with less traffic and improved quality of life.

I was at all the public hearings on Kincora over the last 18 months - At each one the public was in favor of the development by about 15 to 1.  The complainers are in the minority.  Most Loudoun residents are looking forward to having something other than another office park in the county.  Nice to see common sense prevail over NIMBYs…

Hey Ashburn Taxpayer, your whinning like a little girl,most likley the last one picked in gym class.I have been to single A minor league game’s as well as AA and AAA games all over the county.The baseball is very affortable and is great family entertainment for all ages.All the ballparks are clean and you don’t get a bunch of high priced MLB players who care more about the money then the game itself.All the neighborhoods that have built stadiums in the Atlantic league have been better off.The league has a reason, just like the MLB minor league teams do…. Family fun at a great price.If the league was so bad,why are they expanding to Northern VA and putting another division in Texas?More players who are released would rather play Independent ,because you can hook up with a team easier.

Oh McGimsey’s Planning Commissioner who is a architect voted yes to Kincora.

“in this economy” - I’m so sick of that phrase. By the time Kincora builds out, we’ll have 1 or 2 more recessions, based on historical occurances of them. So cork it w/ that. Noone is planning based on the current state of the economy. Building is begin stopped because developers can’t get loans, but the future planning is more based on land prices and political will at the moment.
The baseball stadium was ALREADY APPROVED, for gosh sakes.
Route 7 is already planned for 8 lanes; Rt. 28 is planned for 10 - should be no surprise.
Buckley always sounds like she’s making a campaign speak. “I look forward to the discussion…” is her catch phrase.  If anyone is making their decision about Kincora based on the by-right threat, they are fools. Why didn’t Kincora go by-right after the first denial?? Land is far too valuable. I can’t explain why the 04-07 Board denied Kincora, I guess it just wasn’t the right time. It was a gamble to bring it back w/ this supposed slow-growth Board, but it only took a few swing votes to get ‘er done. The most suspicious being Miller.
Totally agree on the Atlantic league, if you can’t make a minor league roster, it’s 1,000’s to 1 you aren’t going to from the Atlantic league. Guys go there as a last resort, some for the $$ (possibly earn more with a recognizable name, which equals ticket sales) and less indignation than ‘being sent to the minors’. It’s a means of controlling the situation themselves, rather than at the mercy of the MLB team.

Actually the Dulles Mall is already obsolete. ;-)

Old School development. But it does have it’s purpose. That is why the Lerners want to build a Kincora style village on the the property now. It will becoming up soon to the BOS.

Malls are being torn down all the time and replaced with the Village concept. Like the extremely successful Leesburg Village. :-)

My choice would be lovely community over data center and am glad the five county supervisors that voted to approve this development have vision.

Developers don’t want to just throw money away.  (that’s what government does)  If this was not a viable product it wouldn’t have been proposed.

Hey atlantic league fan, most of those players mentioned were in the majors or retired by 1998(if that is when the league started). I’d prefer to pay and see a fresh minor league kid(18-24 year old). Just what we need more office space. And let me guess, the stores will consist of eating places, dry cleaners, hair places of which I can find at least 10 of those within 5 miles of my house already. If this development is so great, does that mean Loudoun one and Dulles mall will be obsolete? Won’t that impact our tax base if either fail? I’ve met the enemy and it’s us….

I agree with Kyle on Waters, once a politician, always a politician. Their egos are way too big not to like the limelight. What’s funny is they actually convince themselves that they’re doing what their constituents want.

Loudoun died a long time ago.  For your information..the natural area is not a park, it’s flood plain, you can’t build in flood plain and i doubt any of you would take a walk in the grass before or after you shop/work there anyway.  Most of you pro development types don’t have any connection to the land.  Sally Kurtz has served our interest well and i thank her.  I’m a loudoun native and moved west 10 years ago when i saw the writing on the wall.  Someone turn off the light when the last of loudoun’s decent people leave the county.  Nails in the coffin, sad to see what could have been for loudoun will never happen.

To all you thinking the metro coming to dulles is some sort of savior…. Very few people will use the metro. Do you really think people will travel all the way out to shop at Loudoun, bypass tysons corner? Eastern Loudoun is going to look more like Tysons Corner with a lot of empty stores. Come on, how many stores can an area have without putting each other out of business and in this economy. Big deal on getting two roads extended. Traffic in that area is already bad at rush hour.

So will Dulles mall or Loudoun one move? How is this smart growth? All 3 are huge shopping centers(for the most part). Will route 7 and 28 be made into 8 lane super highways? More housing means overcrowding of schools, school boundary changes, more schools built. Again, what are the BOS thinking???? And in this economy. I can see my property value continue to go down but my property taxes going up again next year to pay for all the services I don’t use.

It’s amusing to say the least for former Planning Commissioner Mike Keeney to lecture anyone about promises and good government. Keeney was removed from his post on the Planning Commission because he couldn’t find the time to ever attend meetings. There it was Keeney who pledged service and was unable to deliver. Shame on you, Mike.

I’ll take Susan, who puts in her due dilligence always and comes to the best conclusion she can, even if it differs from mine, over a no-show artist like Keeney any day of the week.

Now to Kincora, and specifically Atlantic League baseball. It is fake baseball. No two ways around it. It’s uber minor leagues. It’s for retreads who still want to make a buck and for never will bes. For about 5 years Loudouenrs will attend for something to do. Then the glamour will wear off and we’ll be stuck with a vacant stadium.

Also, the name Hounds is really dumb.

The sad thing is many people against Kincora really need to learn this is a good development compared, to what would of been built. Way to long to fully explain it here. But we are getting some fun stuff like the baseball concert stadium. Yes the two road connections are excellent. Here is the sleeper most are not realizing the is going to be a huge green area park. And it is big. :-) If it was developed by right this land would of been leveled of trees and would of become a industrial zone. And look like that misplaced data buildings on shellhorn. and just look home much worst it is going to look on shellhorn when the next two data buildings get finished. that will complete the visual destruction of that shellhorn property. Unlike how Kincora will actually be beautiful there. :-)

I think people need to go to Atlanticleague.com and see how the league is before they start writting nonsense on here.The league has been around since 1998 and has 8 teams , it is a independent league, which is not a bad thing at all.Players in the league are a mix of former MLB players and players who are trying to get to the MLB.Rickey Henderson,Jose Canseco,Carlos baerga,Lance Johnson, John Rocker,Chris Spezzio,Algardo Alfonzo, just to name a few.Some of them went back to play in the MLB after.The website has all info.Someone mentioned the Fredrick keys ,they are a MLB minor league O’s team,but they are real low level players,guys out of high school and college level players.The Atlantic league is very competive baseball,guys looking to get that shot back to the show.All ballparks are between double and triple play standards.Camden,NJ was Baseball America’s #1 ballpark three years ago,and the Long Island Ducks had better attendence the most MLB triple A teams,sold out almost every season since 2000.Maybe some people should get a clue and do the research before they write on here.

TKO:

Are you serious?  I have no idea who the others are but simply agree with their opinions without opining on the subject at hand.

Did you have something to say other than putting forth a conspiracy theory re:  opinions?  How droll.

It looks as if RH, PJ, TJ and KB are the same person.  Maybe next time you do multiple posts under different names please try to be more creative and less obvious!!  Glad to see….

Well said TJ, PJ and RH.

Hurray for the 5 who believe in Loudoun’s future and vision. This wasn’t about development vs. no development. The site was zoned for data centers which would have held thousands of employees and ruined the environmental assets of this project.  The by-right use did not have any protections for the heron rookery.  With by-right, you’d have no roads, no baseball stadium, no performing arts center.  Instead, Loudoun gets a vibrant mixed-use community and roads to alleviate the traffic on route 7, 28 and Waxpool.  This is a 15 year project. With it’s close proximity to the airport and Metro coming in 10 years, filling office space isn’t going to be a problem.  Now Loudoun can finally compete with neighboring counties for a decent tax base and residents will not have to pay exhorbitant tax bills. Finally, a group of 5 that set aside petty politics and rolled up their sleeves to get something done in this county.

Hats off to these supervisors.  Let’s talk again in 20 years when everyone says, “it was so great that they had a vision that was realized.”

Reading thru this it’s funny finding poeple who have no idea what they are talking about and simply want to complain.  It’s not like they are going to go out tomorrow and build 2.7Mil sq ft of office space, that will be built out over the next 15-20 years depending on market.  With the Metro coming out to Loudoun in the next few years developments like this and One Loudoun are needed to compete with FFX county.  With high profile companies like Northrup Gruman, SAIC, and Hilton choosing FFX county, it shows the need for these developments. Large companies like these pay taxes, which would help offset taxes paid by residents.  It also provides roads, especially the Glouster Pwky extension to 28.  I sure most of the complainers we have here are from west of RT9, by the way whatever happen to you guys creating your own County, this would certainly cut down a lot of the amount of complainers we have in this County.  Glad this passed.

It’s so nice to see people starting to stand up against all the complainers!!!  It’s about time the ‘Majority’ in this county stand up and take a stance.  Between One Loudoun and this development it will offer much needed amenities.  Now people in Loudoun don’t have to run to Reston or Fairfax to enjoy those types of developments.  Glad to see it passed.

2.7 million sq ft of office space Wow ! that can sit vacant with all the other space on Ridgetop Cir and Atlantic Blvd.We need a few more hotels on the rt 28 corridor! We can’t forget the added need for more retail space we need more clothing stores and restaurants,there just isn’t enough places to eat and buy groceries in Sterling.
WTF !!!!

Keeney - former Sugarland Run PC member, chiming in, I like it. Your replacement voted yes, to go w/ Buckley. Haha.

The Keys are “A” minor league for the Orioles, that’s real MLB baseball, not what amounts to a for-fun developmental league of adults at best Atlantic league. I would actually expect more offense in this league, as pitching will probably be quite deficient, which could prove entertaining.

It is not the County’s place or role to build roads, that is specifically the responsibility of VDOT, please know the basics about a topic before making a crack like that. VDOT cannot do it’s job for many reasons, so the County has to sell out to developers to try to get roads built by them in exchange for units/SF. It will never be enough to get ahead, that is the sad part, but by-right won’t get you anything either.

Waters moderated herself in 06/07 to secure re-election, but seems to be going back to 04/05 form, which got her elected in the first place (w/ Staton, Snow, Tulloch, Clem). No one should be surprised.  If not seeking election, you can endear yourselves to folk who may scratch your back in your future endeavors. The girl is smart, no doubt about it. We’ll see her again somewhere.

In summary, Kincora could be a great asset to the County (if it ever builds out as planned, highly improbable as that is), much like One Loudoun will be (oops, redundant focal town center/ destination mixed-use developments that will literally stare at one another across the Broad Run…but anyway)...but the proffer package is highly stacked in the developers favor, and the County will ultimately be on the short end be it with traffic generation, school funding, or other service obligations to this area. But it’ll definitely be better than by-right…who really believes someone would develop this so valuable land w/ flex-industrial for rent to moonbounce companies?? I mean, really. That was the bluff of the century.

Complain all you want, buts its done.  Get over it.  MOST people will be glad to have such a great development so close to home and not have to spend time and money in the car going to other counties for family entertainment.  I hope all you nay sayers aren’t planning to come to performances at the performing arts center, stroll through the nature preserve or attend games, festivals and concerts at the ball park. Please stay home.  They’re meant for people who enjoy life - not those who sit around and complain about everything.

I am so sick of people complaining about Kincora; the negative attitude towards the whole project and the excuses about traffic and schools. We have about 5 years until the ball really starts to roll and that is plenty of time to get the schools figured out. As for the traffic, the Gloucester Parkway thoroughfare along with Pacific Boulevard will ease congestion more than what people think. For those of you who have a problem with Kincora (mostly those of you out west near Purcellville), maybe you ought to leave Loudoun because development of the route 7 and 28 corridors is only going to become abundant and dense.

“leesburg resident” and Deb:  you may not remember, but Tulloch and Snow were on the Board that voted Kincora down the last time.

Look it up.

I realize the specifics aren’t necessarily important when doing the boogeyman whine, but it makes about as much sense as blaming Bush for day 80-whatever of the Gulf Oil disaster, right?

Yes, growth is going to continue to occur.  Plan it, and get something for it, instead of continued by right with nothing (but impact, even by the newest last houses on the block).

Where is the water going to come from. We seem to go through a water restriction each summer

Sally Kurtz- always striving to minimize business in Loudoun.  Good riddance you old hag!  Notice how this Board always votes with a 5-4 margin on almost everything?  Why is that?????

Scott Nestlebush

Here’s an idea—YOU MOVE!  Move to Fairfax or D.C They already have total gridlock and high crime!

Hal Nutt, Waters will run for something, sometime; and I for one will work against her.

To all the ludites who want to vote against Lori Waters, good luck.  She’s not running again.  Funny too how McGimsey can object to too much traffic for this project but she votes for a park on a horrible stretch of road like Lime School. Apparently she only objects to development in her back yard, but is perfectly fine with dumb projects that aren’t.  She’s the one to vote out of office.

Pro Smart Development in Ashburn:

Please explain how ball fields in cities actually REDUCES the overall traffic congestion!

It would seem unlikely to me that 1,400 families would occupy the residential piece of this development.  While some dwellings may become home for families, others will likely house singles or young couples.  It is also possible that the occupiers of the residential component will work in either the Kincora Village or other locations in Loudoun County.  In addition, the developer has allocated residential units that support the counties ADU policy.

I, for one, will be burning less gas going to Kincora Village than Reston Town Center and my tax dollars will be in Loudoun County, not in Fairfax.

Let’s enjoy the amenities in our community.  For those that do not approve of development of any kind, then relocation might be in order.  For those that live in our community that have lost a job perhaps help is on the way.

Applauding the Board of Supervisors that supported this project.

It is about time that the BOS realized that it needs the developers.  Why do you think the school budget has taken an exponential leap?  It is because the developers are not getting rezonings, thus there are no donated school lands and constructed roads.  The County has yet to build one road in the County.  It was just a matter of time before the County realized that they turned the free cash spigot off.

And for all the people who think that a ball field should be in the West rural area; why do you think most ball fields are in or near cities?  It actually reduces the OVERALL traffic congestion!

First, people aren’t driving from Ashburn to Frederick during the week to watch an Independent A-ball team.  So let’s just stop with the “we already have a team in Frederick” nonsense.

Second, if you don’t want the traffic - MOVE.  Just because you want to get home from your 60 mile commute in less than an hour doesn’t mean the rest of the county should have to curtail growth.

How is Susan Buckley’s vote any different than what Mick Staton would have done? Susan ran on a slow-growth platform, and this vote is a total betrayal of her promises to her campaign supporters. Susan could have voted to stop this, but instead, because of Susan Buckley’s choice to support development instead of the interests of taxpayers, residents of Sugarland Run will have to pay to educate the children of 1,400 more families and deal with at least 1,400 more cars that will further congest our roads and pollute our air.

Shame on you, Susan.

If you live in the area of Rt 7 and 28 prepared to sit in traffic and look at cloud formations. This is the WRONG LOCATION for this project.

Deb, I’m ashamed to say it but against my better judgment I voted for Waters the last time. I really thought she had changed her ways and deserved another chance. But I live in Ashburn and she never even held a hearing out here on Kincora. I can’t wait to vote against her the next time. Fool me once Ms. Waters and as Bush said “you aint gonna fool me anymore.” So Ms. Waters when you hear the words “YOU’RE OUT!” It won’t be coming from the baseball stadium, it will be coming from your Broad Run Constituents.

The BOS approved the stadium last year, it was not a part of what they just approved last night. You all should really understand the distinction. Those who cheer for Kincora clearly either don’t know or don’t care of what their Comprehensive Plan says, nor do they understand what a Community Development Authority (CDA)is, how it works, and how it could possibly negatively affect the County’s bond rating and ultimately, the tax rate in a round-a-bout way. They also don’t understand that, without the CDA, and the beneficial trigger mechanisms for the developer, when the proffered road improvements would occur. Even with the most robust economy and thus development build-out, w/ the CDA, you won’t see Glouscester completed for up to 5 years, and w/o the CDA, probably more like 10+ from today. That’s all assuming Norton Scott doesn’t just sit on all this approved development - the property just skyrocketed in value from the former PDIP zoning - and wait until the price hits the right point to sell it. Have you even wondered ‘why hasn’t that ground developed yet? it seems like a no-brainer to put something there”. Well, that’s because the land owner is betting that the value can still go up higher, and he can sit and pay the taxes and wait till he gets his preferred offer.  I don’t know if Norton Scott needs to answer to investors and must do something quickly, or if they can sit and wait…but nothing from last night will be seen for years. Those by-right site plans will go away, and those for the new can now begin…slowly.

Its an independent league team - the Atlantic League.

Kincora is going to be such a great development for Loudoun! Nice Job BOS!!! It’s going to be just like the Reston Town Center!!! This is how I envision Loudoun, and this is another step forward in the process. I couldn’t be happier
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Does anyone know what organization the Minor League Team will be associated with?  Nats?  O’s?

Until we vote out the other half of the “LET THE BULLDOZERS ROLL” group we’ll continue to have these problems.  We got rid of Tullouch and Snow but unfortunately we still have Delgaudio, Waters etc.  and York needs to go as well.  I will vote NO to Waters again and hopefully more fellow Ashburn people will vote her OUT however I won’t hold my breath.  Apparently, no member of the BOS who voted for this or any residents that support this plan has EVER been on the RT 7 and 28 intersection at 6 p.m. Monday through Friday!!!!!  Add houses, offices and a friggin Baseball stadium and you have a NIGHTMARE!  I love minor league games but why can’t they build one in RoundHill or somewhere west on all the traffic and people.  WHY!? WHY!? WHY!?

Really people? Obviously the people who wanted this village don’t have to commute through this area during rush hour. As far as no funding for schools, please remember this when you are bit$&@&! about the schools needing more money. I’m just curious about all the office space that will be created when there is already a ton of VACANT office space in this county. Just another sign that developers own the BOS!

Another bonehead move by the BOS. Putting any more development in that area is just plain stupid. Thank God I live nowhere near that mess and will never go there…and to even consider a minor league baseball team there is also unbelievably dumb with Frederick Keys nearby and other teams…in this economy, Kincora makes zero sense except for the “come heres” who want Loudoun to look like the place they left and think overdevelopment qualifies Loudoun for “world class status”. The best that Loudoun had to offer is long gone, it has emulated Fairfax and shot the golden goose that made it special.

Great news for the families in Ashburn and Loudoun County in general. It will be nice to have affordable baseball right in our back yard. Glad to see this BOS finally get something right.

Finally, I vote that promotes something positive for Loudoun County and for Ashburn!!!  It’s about time!

It’s about time this board did something right for Loudoun!!

Development and traffic are going to increase in this area either way, at least this plan is a staged plan, with funding for roads and a great mix use plan.  When it comes to schools and the like, Loudoun would have to build them anyways when the land became a cookie cutter housing development…Its the best possible outcome for this property (and I hate agreeing with Waters…so this hurts).

Great.  Have fun continuing to sit in traffic folks.  Just when you thought Route 7 and 28 couldn’t get any worse, 5 idiots decide to prove you wrong.  Not to mention this BS funding mechanism that nothing but another tax payer handout.  I thought the old board was securely in the pocket if the developers.  Looks like they recruited 5 more solid Yes votes despite a terribly flawed proposal.

Well to the five who voted YES - I know will address you as Supervisor Tulloch of Snow - take your pick. Join me everyone when your tax rate goes way up to pay for this. So sad we reelected the old Board with the 5 who voted Yes.

Finally!  I was beginning to question if a vote on Kincora by The BOS would happen in my lifetime!  And it almost didn’t happen with a motion to move the vote to September 2010. 

Common sense has prevailed.