Here we go again…another Catoctin parent complaining that someone else has more than someone else. Do they have daily classes on socialism at Catoctin?

This type of thinking is what has plunged Leesburg into a foreseeable future filled with mediocrity.Look at the elementary schools now, all watered down under the falsehood of socio-economic diversity. Ask Wake County NC how this same plan worked out for them.

Please just stop with the mentality of “that person has more than me, and it isn’t fair so we need to make it even.”

Be Thankful and Thinkster - Can you please justify LCPS employees getting additional 5% pension fund contribution paid-for instead of making that contribution themselves? 

What is the justification for higher paid employees receiving a higher COST OF LIVING pay increase?  A gallon of gas is the same for the teacher’s aide as it is for Wayde Byard, so I’d really like to understand the rationale for someone like Byard to be eligible for thousands more?  I understand percentage applied to merit raises but not COST OF LIVING.  LCPS staffers please explain the logic.

Do any other districts cover the employees’ contribution to the pension plan?  And is that 5% bump reflected in the comparisons of Loudoun salaries with surrounding districts?

Our new, inexperienced board should act like learners not teachers. LCPS is one of the largest, if not the largest employer in this county. It is a very complex system and everyone’s over simplification of the issues is just as pathetic as a new board member who thinks they have all the answers. Children are an investment and deserve more than the ridiculous comments that have been shared. The quality of public education in Loudoun parallels the quality of life in Loudoun.

I teach in Loudoun and consider to be an excellent school system. The number of highly qualified teach, top-notch facilities, and access to technology surpass the surrounding areas. Unfortunately, I don’t live in Loudoun…a little pricy for me…....so my kids go to another division. I wish they went to Loudoun where they would get the best of the best. Of course, this probably one of the reason that the property values are high in Loudoun..a lot of people move into Loudoun because of the schools. I think you all should stop complaining..Loudoun is blessed to have such great schools and such amazing vision

FIRE HAT TRICK AND SAVE HIS SALARY AND BENEFITS!

There are metrics for everything that matters, such as class size, compensation levels, benefits, etc.  We just don’t know what they are. Regarding the number of teachers, we just can’t tell from the data provided by LCPS if the numbers are reasonable or unreasonable.  Let’s look at the # of teachers another way.  LCPS says 64,653 students were enrolled in 2011.  They also indicate that the average class size in elementary and middle schools is 22 and in high school 26 students. Let’s further assume that the distribution in grades corresponds with the number of grade levels. (i.e. 4 in high school, 3 in middle school and 6 in elementary school.  Using the class size provided by LCPS, you need 1,356 elementary school teachers (29,840 students divided by an average class size of 22), 678 middle school teachers and 765 high school teachers for a grand total of 2,799 teachers.  LCPS says they employ 5,049 teachers.  That leaves 2,250 teachers for smaller, special education situations that you mentioned.  Does it seem like a lot?  It sure does.  But without having the underlying data and metrics, we don’t know if staffing levels are too high or too low or “just right.” I can promise you that LCPS tracks data like this. 
Are LCPS employees entitled to a raise because he has not had one in while?  Again, it depends on whether or not the existing compensation levels are appropriate for a position with a contractually mandated number of work days and hours per day.  How does the status quo compare with the private sector? I’d be interested to know the fully loaded (salary plus benefits divided by the contract number of hours annually) hourly rate for a LCPS teacher or administrator with 5 years experience.  I’m guessing it’s in the $55 to $65 hour range but I can’t say for sure. LCPS knows this data down to the penny.  Only when you have the data can you make an evaluation of whether this is too generous or a pauper’s wage as some have stated.  What about benefits?  Most corporate employee these days do not get ANY defined benefit pension and pay a very high proportion of benefit costs. 
  These are the type of questions the School Board should be asking.  We want and need quality teachers who are appropriately paid. The newly elected School Board should be looking at all these areas and creating performance and cost metrics where appropriate.  They should look at each and every school to determine if the requested staffing needs are reasonable or unreasonable.  With 87 cents of every tax dollar in Loudoun County going to LCPS, it’s time to ask hard questions and we, the taxpayers, deserve hard answers.

Loudoun Got $$$ to Burn:  You can’t determine class size by taking the number of students and dividing by the number of teachers.  Teachers share students - art, music and PE teachers see many students but are not “homeroom teachers”.  Special education teachers have very small classes and the support teachers for special education students also aren’t “homeroom” teachers. 
An elementary school student with special needs may have 6 teachers - only one of whom “counts” for determining class size.

The LCPS budget reflects a scant 2% as associated with the Administration.  But a careful examination of the document proves that their 2% is totally bogus.  If someone works in the Admin building, then they are in Admin!  The budget is designed to distribute Admin FTEs and costs across other departments to obfuscate the reknown excesses at Education Court.  The budget should be clarified in this regard and include far more detail on actual costs.

Regarding LCPS employee retirement benefits: Taxpayers are already paying millions for LCPS employee pensions through local and state taxes, but we are also on the hook to pay their 5% employee contribution too!  Pensions are a luxury, my employer only matches 1% of my 401K contribution, which seems typical if not better than most.  And my insurance premiums and copays go up every year, unlike LCPS which chooses to absorb the majority of health care escalation costs. 

And don’t get me started on LCPS Administrators’ annual salaries.  Their step pay scale starts at the “basement” level of $71k and goes up to $156k! We just hired a PhD microbiologist fresh from grad school for thousands less than LCPS’ Admin base salary.  What is wrong with this picture?

I hope the new School Board insists more budget detail be posted on the LCPS website.  Without more justification, budgets for all Central Office functions should be slashed, while preserving classroom funding; and, COLAs directed to those who need it, including hourly paid certified staff and others at the lower steps.

I am offended by LCPS’s budget video.  A marketing ploy intended to gloss our eyes over with awe and admiration. 

LCPS has been over spending for far too long.  White boards in ALL classrooms (even the rooms with very limited use) is just the tip of the iceburg. How about $1600 for each laptop computer ($1100 for a desktop)*. Who pays that for a workstation equipped as these are? 

I would like to see a video where LCPS has identified areas of wasteful spending, and areas where LCPS plans to be more efficent! That’s what I want to see.

*according to LCPS budget office.

Just watch, the new liberal Supervisors (who only say that they are conservatives) will be the ones doing Hatrick’s dirty work instead of the School Board this time.  The School Board will do their job, only to be undermined by the Stupidvisors.

Really sad to see all you going on about the trivial part of life. When do you ever stop with politics and start caring about the children? They are the only ones who suffer due to the incompetence that has been delt to them. Get rid of Hatrick. He could care less about our children and the schools. He cares about how he looks. He has no intention of working with the new school board any more than the few who did not get kicked off the board are intending to do their job and work with the newly elected members. This is patetic at best. When does the good of the children and their educational needs come into play and the selfish desires and wants of the few get put aside to work together as a true community instead of a bunch of self centered folks who could care less about their neighbor becuse we are me society!  What a pitty and shame!

Loudoun got $$$$$$ to burn….without bashing the teachers who get paid peanuts to work for the system, why dont u sign up to speak at tomorrow nights school board meeting and ask them your self where the money goes? As Bergel said, she would love to hear the communities input.

Here’s a couple of facts to keep in mind when Hatrick and the LCPS public relations machine starts crying about “fully funding” the school budget.

I’ve taken all of these statistics from the 2011 adopted budget and the LCPS Fact Sheet on the LCPS website.

Loudoun County budget   $1.003 billion
LCPS Budget         $709 mm

LCPS’s operating budget consumed 71% of all the revenue generated in Loudoun County. (the bulk of the revenue comes from property taxes. Property taxes in Loudoun County are 1.285% of the market value of real estate. 1.285% represents one of the highest if not THE highest property tax rate in the entire Commonwealth of Virginia.  If you owned business, would Loudoun County be tops on your list of places to expand?  Maybe this is one factor in the stagnation of Loudoun’s commercial tax base. (The insane zoning/planning/permitting process is another reason, but that’s another post)

LCPS also has a lot of new schools and new schools cost a lot of money.  In order to pay the bonds on those schools, Loudoun County also spends another $120.6 million on debt service. In order to see just how much our gold-plated schools cost, you have to add the operating cost to the debt service cost. The sum of these costs is $829.7 million or 87% of Loudoun’s operating budget.  87% .  Gee, what will it take to “FULLY FUND” the schools?  All of the revenue?

In 2011, LCPS enrolled 64,653 students.  To educate these students, LCPS employed 5,049 teachers (1 teacher per 12.8 students), 421 administrators (1 administrator per 153 students) and 3,650 staff ( 1 per 17.7 students)  I don’t know if these numbers are high or low but I know my kids never had a classroom with 12 kids in it. In fact, LCPS indicates the average classroom size is 22 at the elementary level, 21.6 at the middle school level and 25.9 at the high school level.  I may not a mathematician, but I don’t know how you can employ 5,049 teachers for 64,653 student and have average class sizes of 22,21.6 and 25.9 unless there’s something funny going on with your reporting.  Wade Byard, why don’t you enlighten us on how these statistics are compiled?

The point of this long post is not to bash LCPS but rather understand how the budget is constructed and how much of the resources of the County the school system already consumes.  We all have a vested interest in good schools but how much is fluff in here?

We got rid of the spend, spend, approve anything Hatrick says school board and the weakly BOS so now it is time to get rid of the stupidtendent, Hatrick!
The new boards were elected based upon them getting the county budget back in line with the true economy and we need them to keep their promises or be recalled!
Don’t let Hatrick pull another fast one, cut their budget, no increase for at least one year.
I bet the students will be just fine with the same budget as last year.
I am all in favor of raises for the teachers only! But Hat Trick needs to present a budget that gives salary increase and cuts somewhere else to cover those increases.  The school board better not rubber stamp an approval again!
The Loudoun County School System is the biggest waste of money anyone could develop!

Board Watcher, While your analysis is interesting I must ask why, as a taxpayer, anyone should get a salary increase on the county dime because they might have student loans to pay off? I don’t care if you are a teacher, administrator, IT professional, soapbox derby craftsman or chef, your debts are not my problem. There are plenty of ways people, even ones that aspire to be teachers, can pay for school as they go or keep debt to a minimum. If a teacher gets a degree from Harvard and expects a commensurate salary (in Loudoun County) to pay back their student loans I say, tough toenails.

I THINK I’LL SCREAM IF I HEAR THAT HATRICK BUDGET WAS ‘CUT’ WHEN HE DOESN’T GET THE FULL 11! PERCENT INCREASE.  Enrollment is only going up 3.5-4% and he needs 11%.  Why did he squander the surplus last year on more white boards and not fund the hard working teachers retirement.  More waste!

I agree with Annie Land!  It’s time to change the way LCPS gives raises to its teachers.  The current system of giving everybody the same percentage increase (3% is being proposed for 2013) simply increases the gap each year between the lowest and highest salaries, no doubt helping to drive the high attrition rate in the lower ranks.  Our youngest teachers drop out in large numbers, and we ought to be trying harder to retain them – especially since they’re the ones who know how to use all those new technologies (Promethean boards, iPads) we’re paying for.  Look at the numbers:  in 2010 (the latest year I’ve got data for) the lowest salary was $42,639 and the highest was $96,195 – a difference of $53,556.  Add a 3% raise to each and you get $43,918 (with a raise of $1,279) and $99,080 (after a raise of $2,885) respectively – a difference of $55,162.  Why not give the lowest third 4%, the middle third 3% and the highest third 2%?  That would change the gap between lowest and highest to $53,774…almost the status quo.  And I’ll bet the $1,706 raise given to the lower third would make a real difference to those young folks’ ability to repay their student loans!

I’m sure all the full time positions aren’t just teachers. There is also support staff that is needed to run a school.

Yes, we’re getting “a lot”, but that’s an 11% increase. Who at work gets an 11% pay increase these days. This is running well ahead of inflation.

C’mon folks. A little common sense fer chrissakes!

One thing to keep in mind that this story is about the OPERATING budeget, not the CAPITAL budget. LCPS keeps the two separate and never speaks of them together because that would give you an idea of the TOTAL COST of LCPS.  The TOTAL COST is not average, it is well above average because we have really nice schools with good student test scores and a Superintendant who takes a “business trip” to China every year.  But hey, you get what you pay for. We pay a lot but we get a lot.

Someone explain this:

Hatrick’s budget calls for 436.5 full time equivalent positions for an estimated 2,502 new students. (estimate is usually way high - see last three years estimates)  This works out to one new full time position per 5.73 new students.  Someone from Hatrick’s office should explain this in detail.

It’s not just happening in Texas, it’s happening everywhere…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-Z2qB9aMSw

What is ratio of school administration staff to teaching staff in Loudoun today?

What was it five or ten years ago?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

Yeah, I’ll try my best to give this new school board time, but just wait until some of the new BOS members try to start influencing things.

I think the school board claims of being “independent”  old teachers is dubious…. but I be quiet for now.

Wise Ole Loudouner doesn’t seem to realize the majority of the new School Board has more of a connection to the schools than any preceeding Board.  Turgeon, Fox, Bergel and Sheridan are teachers.  Chairman Hornberger’s wife is a teacher.  Hopefully the teachers will see the difference as this Board hits it’s stride and the fat cat administrators forced to finally take their long-overdue hit on learning how to work lean.

cute.

@loudoun parent—watch it. we evangelicals run this county and pretty soon we will have your kids reading the bible as a mandatory book in history class. try that on for size.

This board is entirely GOP.  Fine. I get it.  Take the ball and run.

But the GOP in VA is dominated by the evangelical wing of the party, therefore I bet you know what comes next. 

I hope and pray (no pun intended) that I’m wrong but the Loudoun GOP has embarrassed us in the national news a number of times in the recent past, why stop now.

Esoteric lawsuits initiated by new School Board members?  What the hell are you talking about Loudoun Parent?  Hatrick got the benefit of the doubt and has spent years sabotaging citizen/BOS trust.  Conversely, the new Board has been in office for barely a week and you already are predicting gloom and doom.  Your blind devotion to the administration and hatred of these citizens who have chosen public service suggests you work closely with status quo at the Taj.

I hope you bring up the same cost issues when some on this board pull off their sheepskin costumes and start some esoteric legal battle of their own.

I’ll wait and hope I’m completely wrong, but I believe some on this board are waiting for the right time to start their own personal agendas on curriculum next.

Hatrick brings it on himself Loudoun Parent.  He thinks he is so much better than everyone else, and is justified to treat others with disrespect.  Attitude goes a long way with building trust.  His decision to appeal to the VA Supreme Court on discipline issue is one of many examples that being “right” is worth sparing no taxpayer expense.  Legal challenges to dictatorial, special interest-focused decisions have further eroded his support.  Budget discussions are obviously orchestrated.  Thankfully now the only Board members he can count on to speak on queue are Bergel and Reed (too early to know about Sheridan). The attitude he brings (citizens are stupid and not to be trusted with full disclosure of the facts) permeates all his decisions.  If he really cares about the system he helped build, it is time for him to step aside and give up the dream to retire with 50 years of service. Otherwise perhaps he can share his golden parachute (and those given as reward to his loyal admin staff) with the teachers that are truly the primary reason for Loudoun’s success.

Not to trivialize the all-day kindergarten debate, but its so far into the weeds in the whole budget numbers and the overall costs for entire LCPS.

In addition, people have been asking for years why LCPS is the only local district not offer all-day K.  So they try to add it in gracefully and of course people start to complain.

Darned if you do and darned if you don’t.  Complaining - the best past time of Loudoun voters.

Full day kindergarten is a wonderful goal but should stay on the wish list until it can be implemented in more equitable stages (not exclusively to the western ESs).

Maybe there some ideas that could be come up with for the transportation issue to save some coin.

However, my main point is that everyone is whining about the school admin as if its a out of control spending spree and the performance sucks.

By ALL area measures the school performance based upon HS grad rates and achievement is by far top tier and the costs are average (or slightly below) for the area.

For god sakes people what more do you want in a administration? Hatrick is well paid yes, but paid pretty much in line with every other SUP in the area.

He’s going to retire soon. If any of you have talked to him away from the board meetings you can tell he has been put through the ringer by the area zealots with no basis for their complains other than “gee, that’s a lot of money!”

Well, guess what?  We live in a affluent and demanding location area and quality costs money.

And to get the talent for that demand takes money.

iPads for everyone!

For many years, 75 cents of every county tax dollar has gone to Loudoun County Schools. If we wish to maintain/continue having one of the best school systems in the state/nation, then it must continue to be funded.  For example, it costs money to attract a top tier of teachers qualified to teach AP classes and to have top notch facilities.  If education is not a priority for you or your family, you’re chosen the wrong place to live. There is real estate, some of it quite close to Loudoun, where schools are not a local priority and the end product is mediocre.  Please move there and stop complaining.

With a new Board, are we finally going to put an end to Hatrick and his high echelon cronies getting free cars and gas, along with free vacations?  Wanna serve the kids?  Start cutting at the TOP!

It is time for the New School Board to stop TRIVIALIZING the teachers and students.  Get yourselves out and into those schools on a daily basis and see what goes on!  None of you have therefore you should not be allowed to even has a say so on what you do with the budget

This school board will destroy our schools

$12,600 per Student isn’t bad. Some people just like to fuss for the hell of it.

A good number of Loudoun’s schools are in the Top schools on a national ranking and it is relatively cheap compared to private schools.

Consider this, The Middleburg Academy (Private School) costs $20,370. Loudoun School for the Gifted is $19,600. Foxcroft School (Girls Only) costs $43,200.

Anybody who thinks that LCPS costs too much hasn’t tried to put their kids into a private school. I’ll take the $300ish dollars out of my $500ish dollar per month tax bill to pay for LCPS over a $1600/mo bill from putting kids into Private School. In the end, both provide the best chance at getting into top colleges. The only difference is that LCPS is a fraction of the cost.

Time for School Board to put the admin on a large diet!

That situation may or may not be an outlier.  You are missing the point, which is indisputable, many children who are totally able to walk to school DO NOT. Some students are not even allowed to ride their bikes to school (e.g., Ashburn and Dulles South).  And Adamo admitted the new Douglass ES inside Leesburg Town limits has NO walk zones at all.  LCPS actually charges kids with after school jobs parking fees while spending probably millions on free rides for everyone when there is no requirement to do so.  At last check, LCPS has no School Traffic Plans and dismisses grant opportunities with VDOT’s Safe Routes to School.

So why the silence on COLA?  Do you support scenario where Hatrick gets $6,500 more per year than your wife for a Cost of Living Adjustment?  You said her 3% doesn’t even buy gas, of course DrH gets add’l $12k/year for his car allowance, $30k/year for life insurance and annuity contribu on top of his $240k/year salary.  And that’s just the tip of the iceberg… recently the textbook company bought him a $5k trip to Australia.  http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/maryland-schools-insider/post/school-superintendents-overseas-trip-questioned/2011/12/02/gIQAHu5qcO_blog.html

Some people talked about the WABE previously, but failed to publish a link. Here is a copy ...

http://www.fcps.edu/fs/budget/wabe/2012.pdf

It clearly shows us compared to all the area districts.  LCPS costs are lower than average and our results are among the best in the area (and nation for that matter).

Also, notice that the number of teachers in FCPS
is not the bogus “7500” claimed in an earlier post, but nearly 14,700!!! (page 34)

Also teaching ratio for FCPS is nearly identical to LCPS (+/- about 1 kid for each grade - page 29)

Given these statistics, it clearly shows that Hatrick, despite the bashing he received daily from people in forums like these…

a) managed to achieve lower than average per pupil in this area
b) managed to achieve some of the best student achievement results of all the districts in the area
c) did all this while dealing with a student population growing at outrageous unprecedented rates that no one else had to deal with.

What the heck more do you want from the guy?

Okay, I couldn’t help myself and I had to Google Map the street to see the situation for myself. 

I think your talking about Lovettsville. 

There is practically nothing at all around this school except this one house.  My guess is that there was a school planning assumption that every kid had to get a ride for shear logistics. 

Its not like its terribly inconvenient for the bus to simply stop, open the door, get the kid and “make the turn” but it does look a bit silly. 

We don’t know the individual situation (the kids possible special needs, etc.) but I hope its not the case of some lazy parent unwilling to walk the kid a few feet up the street since it does look like a major road ... thought it is Lovettsville, not Sterling.

Annie Laud:  Though I still doubt the facts, I’ll take your word about the 200ft bus ride. 

The only possibility is that this person has other “issues” that need to be dealt with. However, you can not use this one outlier sample as an indictment for the whole system. 

Something seems fishy about that situation.

Leej:  That is such a sweeping statement to say growth is over for 20 years. Zero? Really?

First off, young families moved in and are here already from the past few years and will continue to have kids. The district population will continue to grow regardless of new houses being built.  The number entering (on average) will be larger than the number graduating for a while.

Second, our area has much more than just government jobs to offer.  We have one of the biggest high tech job sectors, second to only Silicon Valley.  Innovation happens here beyond DOD and the government research. I know because I am part of it.  Our unemployment rate is less than half of the nation’s.  People will continue to mover here.

To say we will never grow again over the next 20 years is just too sweeping a comment. Very similar to the statement that “buy now! house prices will never go down” a few years ago.

Loudoun Parent at 11:58am,  Your doubt is misplaced. The fact is the child lives at 51 S. Loudoun St and the elementary school is at 49 S. Loudoun St.  The sidewalk across the front of the school really is that close to the house.  Door to door is actually ~200 feet. And, the child absolutely rides the bus. 

As Stevens Miller notes, school bus transportation is not required by law.  Given a choice to drive their child to school each day versus pay a nominal fee, most parents are likely to pay the fee for the convenience and to save $$ on the gas.  And those who are close enough to walk or bike will have monetary incentive to do so.  Naturally, as with other fees (lunches, athletic, etc…), waivers could be provided based on need.  And yes, no matter what, there will always be parents who prefer driving their children.

Sliding-scale COLA raises are far more fair.  The problem with an across-the-board COLA raise is that it is biased toward those at the top end of the salary curve.  For example, say Hatrick has salary of $300k and a new teacher $30k.  A 3% COLA would translate to Dr. H netting $9,000 more and the teacher only $900.  The same bag of groceries doesn’t cost Hatrick 10x more, so how is it justified that his Cost-of-Living Adjustment be 10x more?

Loudoun Parent@ the party is over for growth in Loudoun for as much as 20 plus years.

The government and contractors are and will cut hundreds and hundreds and even many more hundreds of thousands of jobs in the DC area. You will never ever see growth in the DC and especially Loudoun even close to the heyday here. The party and high government salaries are over . What is good for DC is horrible for the average working american. People here that work for the government and government contractors need to live on the average american salary and benefits. The average american taxpayer can no longer afford the government and contractors pay and benefits. And you are just starting to see it now. ;-) Again the government party off the average american outside the DC area is over. Example nobody here several years thought real estate in the DC area would ever drop like it did and it has not recovered or will it.  People here live in LA LA land off the average american taxpayer. That is over.

Where’s the video link.

Can we also stop the condescending talk about the new Admin building (the “taj”)?  Does anyone remember the embarrassment of the old facility they has before this in Leesburg? 

Yes, its big and not completely full.  Yes, growth has slowed (for now with the economy).  But NoVA is going to grow again very soon and probably just as fast or even faster than before.

Soon we will be as big as Fairfax (may take 10 or 15 years but sooner than you think).  This facility was a building planned for then, not now.  It was far cheaper to build this now than waiting until then.

In 20 years this building will look like a bargain.

I would whole-heartedly agree with that.  Many teachers that I have talked to wonder where a lot of budget is going to and why they aren’t making a livable wage for the county they teach in.  Many teachers would qualify for high merit pay, if it was done the right way.  The problem is that the correct way would be to evaluate not only test scores, but student progress and independent evaluations as well.  In order to that, you would need a whole new department at the Taj, which means even more budgeting.  It’s a really tricky situation when you sit down and look at it objectively. 

At the risk of being repetitive, I urge everybody to keep a close eye on this board, JUST like a close eye should’ve/was kept on the last board.  At the end of the day and regardless of partisanship, it is still politics and politicians trying to cover their rears.

ok, so I’ve changed my monker so we can start fresh.

As I said earlier, I support the teachers.  I’d like to see the best earn far more than they can under the current caps.  And the assistants do amazing work at less than a living wage.

But I don’t see the knee-jerk reaction to the new school board in their first week as anything other than bitter partisanship.
 
Jill Turgeon was an LCPS teacher and her husband remains one.  Bill Fox was an LCPS teacher.  They are not out to slash teacher salaries and destroy the school system.

Every LCPS teacher I know speaks with great outrage at the waste they see in the system.

Yes my wife is a elementary special ed assistant getting thrown up on, kicked and spat on by autistic kids and making a miniscule $18k a year for it (thanks to “no-child left behind” this is where a significant portion of the $$$ are going).

She did it not for the money but to simply contribute outside the house to the community and help out.

I am NOT an LCPS employee.  I am am engineer that deeply cares about our Loudoun kids.  I volunteer for every activity I could while my kids were in school and i am passionate and sympathetic in my feels about the plight of teachers and angered by those who trivialize them.

I am proud of LCPS and thank them for educating my children.

In addition, the only comment/insult you levy is that I forgot to add the phrase not raise for 3 years “before this year”  so there.

Great, she got $20 more bucks a paycheck after 4 years - can’t even fill the tank with that raise.

Some slight bit of understanding of the tough job she and many other do for the “wage” would be appreciated.

I apologize if I offended you, but I don’t apologize for defending the teachers.

About the only thing I might have somewhat in common with “needs some schooling” is that this should not be made out to be a party battle.  Republican or Democrat, what we really need is people who know what the hell they’re doing.  The video from the meeting is actually a little bit frightening and for those of you who haven’t seen it, I urge you to watch.  My biggest worry is that the Board will make drastic changes for the sake of making changes, and not get the input from experienced members and the public as well.  If you start at about the 1:05-1:15 mark, you will see on representative urging to get public input before implementation and this theme is carried out through the end of the meeting.  Transparency and logic needs to take place over knee-jerk reactions made without consulting the public.  Bus advertising is one of these issues.

I love how Loudoun Parent started out claiming that their kid was graduating this year, so they really have no interest other than in keeping their property values up.

Two hours later, Loudoun Parent admits his wife is an LCPS employee.

Any other secrets to reveal?

Later tonight we’ll probably find out that Loudoun Parent is an LCPS administrator.

Be sure to mention where your paycheck comes from when you testify before the BOS about saving the poor children from the ignorant and evil republicans!

Loudoun parent needs schooling, I was just referring to you as a bumbling moron because your arguments as a whole are not cohesive and make you sound ignorant.  The rest of the post was addressing individual arguments made throughout this thread.  I’m sorry that I didn’t single you out, but if you’d like me too I will. 

I took a look at your vaunted WABE information and noticed that while you argued about teacher starting salary going up $1200 you didn’t look at the math that goes into it.  $1200 does not even cover the extra days for this years calendar + a 3% COLA.  I know that you’re intelligent enough to understand that inflation is between 3-3.5% which means the increase does not even keep pace with inflation.  So essentially, the money that is increased is actually worth less.  Do I need to explain that to you as well?

Back to your other stats: “Most teachers and assistance (assistants??)  have not seen any significant increases.  But in just this past year maximum teacher salary has gone from $96.2K to $99.1K.”  That is the 3% COLA increase that was received this year, for the first time in 4 years. 

Just stating facts has no relevance unless you think them through and apply them.  But what do I know, I have a comprehension problem.

“I quoted facts, just not the ones you wanted to hear.  All my statements were quoted from documents and you nitpicked the dates by a year.”

HELLO?  Every “FACT” you gave was WRONG!  No Raise in YEARS!!!  ooops… no raise except that 3% COLA we just got… but hey, that’s nitpicking. 

Please tell me where I can find the document cited showing student growth rate at well over 10%  (when in fact it is less than 5% and dropping).

“You started the mean spirited comments and unlike others you attempt to intimidate, I won’t back down.”

Sorry, but I didn’t post here until after you gratuitously slammed the “ignorant” Republicans.

“I will not stop defending all of LCPS teachers for their hard work and lack of appreciation they get from the likes of people like you.”

I appreciate teachers very much.  The good ones should earn 2x what they do now.  You’ve made all kinds of assumptions about me and the new School Board that simply are not true.  You don’t help the teachers’ cause when you make false claims.

SERIOUSLY?  You have to be joking with the comparison of Loudoun County to PG County or DC Public Schools.  Have you EVER been in a PG public School?  I have.  PW schools are getting better…Your attempts at getting folks riled up are ridiculous…these inflammatory statements are laughable.  Thanks for the chuckle.

So Distorted needs some reading comprehension lessons.

>> “Loudoun Parent needs some schooling” is a bumbling moron.

You then list a bunch of “FACTS” that have absolutely nothing to do with anything I have said here.

On the teacher pay front, my only points have been to show that Loudoun Parent was dead wrong in claiming that no teachers have seen a pay increase in “YEARS!”

Please show me where I have gotten a single fact wrong.

I found a 92.9% of 22,779 schooled based position count.  Obviously only some percentage of that are teachers.  We have 80 schools, they have over 200!

Eye-balling the numbers seem like it It does seem to be on par with us scaling things up. 

        LCPS     FCPS
students   66,000   180,000
employees   9,000     23,000

In LCPS, only 400 of the 9000 are admin positions, or 95.5%. (minus the custodians, bus drivers, etc) but including the teaching assistants are very critical in elementary level schools.

Yes, its only slighty higher than FCPS (http://www.fcps.edu/about/)
meaning that the money is in classroom teaching, not administration, which should not bother anyone.

“Loudoun Parent needs some schooling” is a bumbling moron.

FACT: The only raise teachers have seen in the past 4 years was a 3% COLA this past year.  The salary statistics are skewed because more people are getting Masters degrees to increase their pay.

Fact:  Your math is terrible.  Are you honestly convinced that there are 13 kids per class?  My daughter’s first grade class is 28 and at the high schools, a low average is 23-25.  Forget about academic 9th grade classes were the range can go from 23-30. 

In regards to merit pay: What happens if the teachers perform at a level where they all receive a 5-8 percent increase?  Will you then find another way to cut money to cover the increased cost or swallow your words and pay them?

The fact remains that this new board was elected not based on their merit, but more on a misplaced outrage towards the school system.  The meeting was laughable, with the appointed chairmen being obviously unaware of how to run the meeting and the members trying to enact legislation that makes no sense.

By the way, all of the supporters who rant and rave about the new change that’s coming, rest assured that it will come at the will of the board and not through your input.  If you actually watched the meeting you would see that the new members are openly disregarding a plea for transparency and public input on some of their decisions.  Whichever side you are on, you have to admit that the combination of inexperience, retaliatory mentality, and secrecy from public opinion is a dangerous combination.

LCPS Trivia:  Please site where you pulled the 7600 FCPS teachers.  I have not been able to find anything such number anywhere.  I have found 180,000 students but can not verify the teacher count.

LCPS Trivia,

Something doesn’t add up here…personnel classifications must be different between the counties.  Doing the math, Loudoun’s student to teacher ratio would be 13, while Fairfax’s would be 23.  Fairfax’s ratio seems pretty reasonable…I know Loudoun’s is not.

I quoted facts, just not the ones you wanted to hear.  All my statements were quoted from documents and you nitpicked the dates by a year.

You started the mean spirited comments and unlike others you attempt to intimidate, I won’t back down.

As you can tell, I married to someone in the LCPS who has suffered from people insulting her to her face in public.

I will not stop defending all of LCPS teachers for their hard work and lack of appreciation they get from the likes of people like you.

I moved here from Fairfax for just that reason.  The schools sucked in the area we lived, with leaking trailers and overcrowded classes.

Sounds like you’ll get the school you deserve. 

Good luck with that.

>> So you really think that LCPS teachers are overpaid?  Really?

No one in this entire thread has said teachers are overpaid.

I’ve simply taken the time to prove that you were completely wrong about nearly every FACT.

You’re the one who keeps calling others ignorant, yet you clearly have no clue how the budget works, what the growth rate is, or how much our teachers are paid.

Loudoun County v Fairfax:

LCPS has 65,000 students, with over 5,000 teachers. 

Fairfax, 182,000 students, 7600 teachers. 

We are fat and bloated.  Time to right the ship.

You through a fit over one year of time. Well here are the facts about your >$90K numbers.
IT TAKES 30 YEARS TO GET THERE!

Yes, they got a minor humanitarian bump of 3% this year, big whup! If look down on page 2 you get the quote,
“Employees received a cost of living increase in FY 2012 (2011-12 school year) which represents the first salary increase in three years.”

FACTS:
Teacher Salary Range (FY 2012)
First Year Teacher $43,715
Bachelor’s with 30+ Years Experience $86,162
Master’s with 30+ Years Experience $93,484

http://www.lcps.org/cms/lib4/VA01000195/Centricity/domain/66/legislative program/FINAL 2012 Legislative Program.pdf

“The $20 million is an expected savings in the FY10 budget that could be used to help fund FY11. But it will be spoken for at the beginning of FY11,” Hatrick said. “Every penny of that $20 million is spoken for.”

“The story has definitely changed since the last time we were here. We were told that it was for one-time expenditures,” Supervisor Andrea McGimsey (D-Potomac) said. “We are living in difficult times right now. And people are making tough decisions all the time. I look at this as our responsibility to spend our tax dollars as efficiently as possible.”

“We were told this money was for one time purchases, things, and now we’re being told they are for people. I don’t want to be told that the teachers are going to be held hostage so the ransom will come in the form of money,” Miller said.

Here we go again…enough of this.  School Board and BOS show some backbone, for once.

Well that great.  I hope you end up with the school you deserve. 

Again, my kids are done.  Good luck with yours if you really have any (I bet you don’t and couldn’t give a crap about anyone else but yourself).

Typical GOP.  I got mine, F you - go get your own!

Compassionate conservative my a s s

So you really think that LCPS teachers are overpaid?

Really?

In your comment about percentage increase, you allocated 3% for new school overhead.

The cost of new schools, including furnishings, come out the capital budget, which is a whole different beast.

What Hatrick presented is the proposed operating budget for LCPS.

Take a moment to look at the fine print (on the link you provided) and you’ll see that the data came from last year’s WABE guide.  Look at the 2012 WABE guide, and you will see that Loudoun’s average starting salary went UP $1200 and is NOT the lowest salary in the area - Prince William and Alexandria are both lower.

The FACT is that your claim there were no raises was 100% wrong.

The salary numbers in my last quote are coming from LCPS as reported in the annual WABE reports.

——
The Washington Area Boards of Education
(WABE), previously known as the Metropolitan Area Boards of Education, was first established in 1971 as a means for area school divisions to share information, study common problems, and enhance cooperation among educational organizations.  Each year, the group surveys its members to publish the annual WABE Guide. This guide enables local school systems to learn about each other by reporting comparable information in a standardized format.  In addition, the WABE Guide is meant to be used by citizens as a source for consistent, reliable educational data.

... and salaries?  Your quoting FCPS?  We are in LOUDOUN.  Plus that’s highest teacher salary. A fraction of the teachers can make that after 20 years of service.

FACT:  Average Loudoun new teacher makes under $42.5K ... the lowest in the area counties.  Most of those new teachers have Masters Degrees.

http://www.lcps.org/cms/lib4/VA01000195/Centricity/Domain/4/LCPS Fact Sheet Summary - 2010-2011.pdf

Okay how about some more details about percentage increases….

a) inflation, though very low, is still about 3% last year. 

b) when you need to open more schools, the necessary increase will be high because of
new “everything” rather than simply reusing last year’s stuff.  What do you want to add? 3% maybe?
Probably even higher but just leave it there.

THEREFORE: inflation + new school overhead + increased population ==
    3 + 3 + 5 = 11%

IS THIS SPOON FED ENOUGH FOR YOU NOW???

Another bungled FACT from Loudoun Parent:

CLAIM:  there have been NO RAISES in years for teachers and assistants in LCPS.  YEARS!

REALITY:  Most teachers and assistance have not seen any significant increases.  But in just this past year maximum teacher salary has gone from $96.2K to $99.1K.

SOURCE: http://www.fcps.edu/fs/budget/wabe/

“kindergarten is not mandatory in Virginia, so why are we paying for full day subsidized daycare?”

Buses are not mandatory in Virginia either. Would you like everyone to drive their own children to school?

Loudoun Parent needs to work on his or her FACTS.

CLAIM:  “the number of students serviced are ever increasing well beyond the 10% number asked”

REALITY:  Student growth rate in 2011 was less than 5% and is projected by LCPS to steadily drop to less than 2% over the next 10 years.  The last time we saw 10% growth was in back in 2000.

SOURCE: http://cmsweb1.loudoun.k12.va.us/cms/lib4/VA01000195/Centricity/Domain/66/history.pdf

The comments are comical and just demonstrates the total ignorance to facts of the average Republican voter.  They just want to hear information that reinforces they’re preconceived notions of what the true is.

FACT: Loudoun county is growing at an outrageous rate per year - faster than most every county in the nation - the number of students serviced are ever increasing well beyond the 10% number asked - the population is not STATIC! Its growing.  What’s next? limiting the number of new students?
Therefore the budget HAS TO GROW to accommodate it.

FACT:  there have been NO RAISES in years for teachers and assistants in LCPS.  YEARS!  so your .5% to 8% would be welcome for LCPS because they have had NOTHING for years.

FACT: yes, some neighborhoods have crossing guards, and I absolutely DOUBT your 50 ft story bus ride story totally.

Please stop the “I don’t see it so therefore what I believe is the only truth I need.” Go beyond your own experiences, get FACTS.

Again, my last kid is out in June. all I care about is my property value now.

Maybe they can sell those smart boards on ebay to recover some of the technology expense. I was at the Tahj Mahal on two occasions and seemed like building was under half full. Perhaps they were all on some retreat? Too many chiefs. They could cut half the supervisors and wouldn’t affect the kids.

A Scared Republican, it would take 100 years to be worse off then PG/PW county and DC schools. Hatrick cries wolf every year, wants/needs everything without giving up anything. Hopefully our newly elected school board will represent the voters. I haven’t noticed any difference in Loudoun schools(lived in Loudoun 25 years). Even if they cut the school budget, our property taxes will go up to cover any losses, it always does, even in a bad economy(with many businesses closing and houses vacant).

These school board members have no clue.  Never did.  They won because of apathy and had no mandate which they probably will try to claim anyway.  The parents will get pissed and they will do what they want anyway.  It won’t be long before they realize that they cant get what they promised and they end up looking like fools.  I can’t wait.  Next they will be paying $20 million for a piece of land in Lansdowne that is virtually worthless thanks to the Hornblower dude.  I wish I was Kurt Kraus on the other side of that deal.  Wow, this is the beginning of the LOUDOUN TARP PROGRAM.  Bailing out failing commercial properties is what Scott York is all about.  He pushed through the Lansdowne School site until he found out that the FBI was investigating him TOO!  He tried to help out his highest campaign contributer, JOHN WOOD, by trying to buy their failing office building.  I’m telling you…THIS IS THE LOUDOUN TARP PROGRAM.  Run by Scott York and now his cronies too.  They are all a bunch of low class bums.

Only three more years before my youngest is out of LCPS….hoping this new board doesn’t do something stupid and ruin the district before then.

Why do ALL employees get a 3% raise?  We just got our salary increase news yesterday and the raises ranged from 0.5 to 8%, with the majority of the larger percentages going to younger staff at the lower end of the payscale.  At a minimum, sliding scale salary increases need to be implemented immediately with serious investigation of how to implement merit raises.  Merit raises would be a natural extension of what I hope LCPS already has in place - annual performance reviews.

Dr. H spoke often in his presentation about the need to “invest” in our children. The CIP and voter-supported bonds are proof that citizens continue and are willing to do exactly that, but WITH reasonable limits. 

The Transportation Budget needs to be reviewed.  Does LCPS employ any crossing guards?  I’ve never seen them.  However they are common in neighborhoods near Montgomery County schools and would be cheaper than busing many children.  I saw a child ride the bus to her home which was less than 50 feet from an elementary school and there WAS a sidewalk connecting them.  Seems reasonable and fair to implement nominal fees for bus transportation (per mile basis) to reward those who can and do walk or bike to school and stop subsidizing those of us who choose to live farther away.

You reap what you sow.

You can’t blame him for trying to get as much money as he can. Hopefully the BoS will knock it down and spread it elsewhere.

How many iPads am I paying for so kids can play Angry Birds instead of paying attention to the lecture?

Hatrick always pads the budget with the expectaion that the board will not give him everything he asks for. At the end of the day, there will be a 3-5% increase over the previous year and our kids will be fine.

By the way, I lived 1.5 miles from school and I walked (actually I rode my bike). What’s wrong with that?

Just watched Dr. Hatrick present the school budget to the board. The resulting comments from a majority (5) of the board members was about cutting taxes and their fiscal platform while running for their position. This board (5 of the members) lacks a great deal of board experience and doesn’t really have any knowledge about school matters. It was quite clear in their comments that their lack of experience is going to result in poor decisions that negatively impact the students of Loudoun Schools. Watch the video on the LCPS website.

God Help Anyone Who Has A Child In LCPS!  The New Board Will Tear Apart All Of The Good That Has Been Done!  In 4 Years When Our School System Is Ranked Below PG and PW Counties Thank The Current Board!

Please, can we rid ourselves of Mr. Hatrick ... now???

I’m so glad my last child is graduating this year. The reign of LCPS being the envy of NoVA is now officially over. Let the gutting begin. Get ready for the cuts… starting with any funding extra-curricular’s.

Austerity here we come. I bet the bus system is also next. If you live within 2 miles of your school, you can walk!!!

The I’ll informed school board now learns the reality of cutting the budget.  The school children pay and the future school children pay even more.  I can’t wait till they cut and run and they get the first taste of gparents minds.  Can you say wake up call.  One and done.  Also bye bye to all the sups that cut the school budget.  Yes they will fire Hatrick but it will bite them squarely in the a…s…..s.

kindergarten is not mandatory in Virginia, so why are we paying for full day subsidized daycare? Cut the program to half a day.