What law says that the school system has to provide bus servise to all children? We are not back in the days of racial desegregation.

Minimum retirement age for teachers should be 65. Average retirement over entire Loudoun school work history not just the last 3 years. Let the teachers pay their own Social Security taxes and mandate that they contribute to their retirement. As is a teacher would make more money retired than teaching.

Richest not for long. Pretty good retirement for teachers when it’s based on your last three years of employment compensation. It should be averaged over the whole career at Loudoun schools. Besides your school retirement you get to double dip with Social Security that is paid for and if you have the foresight a matching 403 so you could basically have 3 retirement sources from the government and school system NICE!!!

Every board member campaigned as a fiscal conservative and voters liked what they heard.  Please listen to voters and lower our taxes!

Wah Wah Wah Wah

My taxes are going down, down, down. 50% of homeowners will be saying the same thing. Your allegations have been proven wrong yet again.

And the beat goes on.  And we are back to the lying 9-0 republican board of supervisors claiming we homeowners will not see our taxes go up, when it is demonstrated, even from the “helpers” of this lying 9-0 republican board of supervisors, that we homeowners, with our assessments up, up, up, will see our taxes go up, up, and up.  No matter how many names are made up, or how over then same, many-named person writes on, that fact does not disappear.  Which is why it is so clear that this lying 9-0 republican board of supervisors should do the right thing, and resign now.

And not one credible argument using facts or numbers. Fantastic!

All one has to say is 9-0 republican board of supervisors, and one knows you are describing a group of liars.  End of story.

Yup, you had nothing new to write to support your claim. You would make an excellent lawyer:

“Your honor. This person is innocent because… he is innocent. Innocent, innocent, innocent. I rest my case.”

Love It!  The 9-0 republican board of supervisors liars are hot after it now.  All those made up names, all from the same poster.  Who I’ll bet is one of those legislative aides of one of the 9-0 republican board of supervisor liars, sent out on a mission to protect the 9-0 republican board of supervisor liars.  I THINK YOU GET THE IDEA.  It really always comes back to the same thing.  You cannot trust a republican pol as far as you can throw one.

Wait… The Democratic Party isn’t myopic??? Wow… Another revelation. Too bad it isn’t true.

LOL! Laugh has been pwned, pwned, pwned

President Obama promised to cut the deficit in half by the end of his first term. The democratic Executive Branch lies, lies, lies.
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/23/fiscal.summit/

“Laugh”, every new post of yours is pretty much a copy & paste of your previous one. You offer nothing new when you type and are the worst debater I have
ever seen.

Its people like you that make our Democratic Party look uneducated and myopic.

Shame, shame, shame

P.S. I know youll have to look up the meaning of that word, so heres a link - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/myopic

My, my, my, I Don’t Shudder.  You really have lost it, haven’t you.  I guess I could not have asked for more from you.  After all, you failed miserably with your “assistance” of the lying 9-0 republican board of supervisors, and instead you very adequately demonstrated why we all now see the lying 9-0 republican board of supervisors should resign now.

What you just said, is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling ,incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.

Howdi, I Don’t Studder.  Ah, the games you play.  Blessing this and that, while you lie, and in the process, try to protect the 9-0 republican board of supervisors who lie, lie, lie.  Bottom line, and you can’t get away from it, is that you have attempted, and very badly I might add, to protect the lying 9-0 republican board of supervisors on this story.  It must come as a real surprise to you, and the lying 9-0 republican board of supervisors, but we, the people in Loudoun County, do not like being lied to.

“Eighty-five cents of every dollar of local tax funding goes toward schools, debt service and public safety, Hemstreet noted.”

We are still playing catch up to the growth rates of 2008.  It take a few years to turn THIS economy around and we are the lucky ones with our little Federal micro economy.  Some of you need to get a clue—budget cuts and raise taxes.  If you piss both sides off you must be doing the right thing.

Check the school debt lobstery one. Add that 120 million dollar payment and what’s the percentage?

Loudoun County should be like the Very-Democratic State of California, which will be broke next month. That’s right. The Controller spent every last penny.

http://www.oneminutefinance.com/financial-news/california-broke-controller-john-chiang/

... and GOD Bless the USA!
:-)

When did I say that “everyone’s taxes are going down”?

I just checked every posting I made. The closest thing I said was “no net tax increase for the average homeowner”.

Do you even understand how real estate taxes are determined? It’s based on a percentage (i.e. tax rate) of the value of your home (i.e. assessment). Some home values have gone up. Some home values have gone down. Loudoun County doesn’t dictate that. The market does. What Loudoun County CAN dictate is the tax rate.

Governments need a certain amount of money to operate. They can’t cut enough out of the budget to set the tax rate so low so that everyone’s net tax liability goes down. What they are trying to do instead is cut enough out of the budget so that the net tax liability for the average homeowner (i.e. average assessment) stays the same. Unfortunately, that means that some people’s net tax liability will go up while other people’s net tax liability will go down.

Heaven forbid our public officials try to spend less money than they take in. Oops! According to liberals, you’re not allowed to say “heaven” in public.

How many deputies had to lose their job for the grossly overpaid PR Gal to be hired? Everyone needs to follow who is hired by the LCSO for projects like their new website and how many other jobs are handed out as political payback. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

I just love I Don’t Studder.  He starts off claiming everyone’s taxes are going down, and then, bit, by bit, by bit, he had to admit that he was wrong, wrong, wrong, until, finally, he admits that I am right, right, right!  Sooooooooooo, where are we:  We have a lying 9-0 republican board of supervisors who lies, lies, lies, and who are actually raising up, up, up, my taxes, along with many, many, many others.  Bottom line.  You cannot trust this 9-0 republican board of supervisors, and it appears, any other republican.

@uncleC - “PROBLEM; $.85 cents of every dollar goes to education.”

You might want to get your facts straight.  According to the Loudoun County Budget website, there is a:
“66%/34% split between Loudoun County Public Schools and the General Government (local tax funding)”

But what’s a 19% error among friends?

...and 50% went down.

This very article says they said they, “won’t increase taxes on the “average homeowner”.” The mathematical definition of an “average homeowner” is the average real estate assessment.

I feel like I’m teaching math to a pre-schooler.

PROBLEM; $.85 cents of every dollar goes to education.

Everything else is the result of the PROBLEM.

@Laugh - Funny, you earlier claimed all assessments went up, now you’re saying somebody else proved your point by saying 50% went up.

If you’re so upset with the BOS, vote for someone else next time.  Ooops!  Going to have to wait four years for that!

If you voted for the current set of candidates, you only have yourself to blame for believing in false promises.

Love it, I Doni’t Shudder.  You just proved my point, when you stated the “average” assessment.  Fifty percent went up in your district.  A FACT.  Grow up.  You are not helping out the lying 9-0 republican board of supervisors, with your really pathetic effort.

Cut more!  No Raises for County and LCPS staff!  Implement laoffs instead. The board is heading in the right direction but needs to make evern deeper, and bolder, cuts.

In general, condo assessments went down, townhouse assessments were mixed, and SFH assessments went up. However, it’s not just a matter of home type. It’s also a matter of location. The average assessment in the entire Catoctin District went down.

Thinking that “poor” condo and townhouse owners are less of a citizen is the kind of snooty, arrogant attitude that I have come to expect from Loudoun County.

As long as the net tax liability based on average home assessment and tax rate stays the same, the 9-0 republican board has fulfilled its promise.

What you are asking for is a mathematical impossibility unless every individual residential property in the County were assessed at the exact same amount.

@Laugh - I don’t studder is right, they’re not up all over the county.  I live in a nice single-family home neighborhood.  It’s mixed about 50/50 of assessments that have gone up vs down based on what I’ve heard from around a dozen people.  On the whole, most have had their taxes change very little.

And why do you view condo owners as second-class citizens?  And why do you insist that somebody who disagrees with you must be part of the BOS?  So everybody else in the county agrees with you?

To I Don’t Shudder:  You are digging yourself a hole deeper and deeper on this one.  You may live in a hovel of a condo unit, seeing your values drop like a rock.  BUT, for everyone else, ASSESSMENTS ARE UP ALL OVER THE COUNTY.  It is in all the news, all the time now.  You can posture all you want, I Don’t Shudder, but the more you do, the more you paint yourself, either in a corner, or demonstrate you actually are one of the 9-0 republican board members.  Bottom line:  Taxes are going up, up, up, and the 9-0 republican board of supervisor members know this, and yet they lie, lie, lie.  Obviously, the word HONOR means nothing to them, and obviously, THE 9-0 REPUBLICAN BOARD OF SUPERVISOR MEMBERS SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES.

But house assessments are NOT up all over the County. Some peoples’s assessments are down and they will be paying less in real estate taxes.

That’s how averages work. You can’t have everyone’s real estate taxes go down while saying that the average is staying the same.

Thank you LCPS for such a fine job educating citizens in basic math. </end sarcasm>

The reason is sooooooooooo obvious I Don’t Shudder, that I would guess you are one of the 9-0 republican board of supervisor members.  This article says that the tax rate will stay the same.  As everyone now knows, their house assessments are up all over the county.  THEREFORE, and please think in terms of the dramatic drum roll, My Taxes Are Going Up!  AND SO IS EVERYONE ELSE LIVING IN A HOUSE WHOSE ASSESSMENTS WENT UP.  The real point here, I Don’t Shudder, is that the 9-0 republican board of supervisors is standing in front of us, CLAIMING that they are cutting my taxes.  THAT IS A LIE.  The 9-0 republican board of supervisors should be ashamed of themselves.  If they had any honor, the 9-0 republican board of supervisors would admit they are lying.  Otherwise, they should just resign now.

And they say Loudoun County schools are the best thing since sliced bread.

Yes, the average assessment went up in 2011. However, some assessments went down at the same time.

I live in a condo and my assessment dropped by 10%. By my math, they could raise the tax rate to $1.44 and my net taxes would still be the same as last year.

@I don’t studder - Oh my gosh!  There’s somebody else here that considers the assessments in conjunction with the tax rate!  I thought I was the only one.  I swear most people here would cry and moan about ANY tax rate increase even if their house was assessed down to $1.

I think most of our tax dollars should be redirected to remedial math education for the adults in our county.

“Laugh” - if they set the new tax rate so that there is no net tax increase for the average homeowner, how is that a lie, lie, lie (studder much)?

Let’s look at this simplified example:

Average 2010 assessment: $100k
Tax rate: 1.10
Total tax: $1100

Average 2011 assessment: $200k
Tax rate: 0.55
Total tax: $1100

@Laugh - Anybody who expects taxes to drop any significant amount is delusional.  If you look at some of the data I posted yesterday, when Fairfax was in its peak years of growth, their tax rate hit $1.74.  With our county’s growth and massive per capita school population, you’re out of your mind if you think magically we can get our rates down to what some of the surrounding counties pay.  Maybe in a decade when population growth tails off.

If you voted for the current board members that are in office, that’s your problem.  If you were deluded enough to think they wouldn’t end up being liars, well I guess you’re easily tricked.

Everybody wants to pay no taxes, but doesn’t want to give up a thing in services.

@NO METRO - Why does everyone assume the Silver Line is only useful for going downtown?  Are there no jobs in Herndon, Reston, Tysons, Falls Church, or Arlington?  I guess it’s only useful if you’re going into DC?  The stretch of Greenway from the last stop to Tysons is about 15-16 miles.  At 25 mph, that trip would take around 35-40 minutes.  I guess that’s not worthwhile?  Have you seen what Tysons is going to become over the next 10 years?  Tysons already has 1/3 of the office space of all of DC and is growing.

Again, let’s keep this on point.  The 9-0 republican board of supervisors lie, lie, lie, when the all claimed that the proposed tax rate would mean we pay no new taxes.  THAT IS A LIE.  With virtually every homeowner’s assessments going up, up, up, the tax rate that the 9-0 republican board of supervisors claim is so great means our taxes are going up, up, up.  It is unacceptable that the 9-0 republican board of supervisors will lie so shamelessly to us.  They all should resign now!

The new Sheriff is asking for alot of money to create new unneeded positions and is trying to increase the salaries of his top people.  He has brought in a bunch of his retired Fed buddies and given them high paying jobs and he has created other high paying jobs for people who worked on his campaign.  This has robbed us of a chance for promotion.  Thought he was going to cut the fat from our department.  How about taking care those of us at the bottom of the food chain. Stop worrying about giving the brass more money and increase the salaries of the deputies.

Anyone can look at google maps and the proposal is to build 2.5 miles of metro into Loudoun… so what if you go sideways a mile or two to the airport, which is also in Loudoun, just makes the trip even longer…

The train will travel a max of 25 mph… and stop at every stop… for 5 to ten minutes, while the doors go open and shut open and shut, so annoying.  A trip downtown 2 weeks ago from Vienna took more than 2 hours because of all the delays…

NO to METRO!!!  Busses are much better for anyone and everyone!

@skippy - The “Metro will only come 2.5 miles into Loudoun” is WRONG.  We’ll be getting closer to 7 miles if you measure from the airport terminal to where the last station will be.  If you like being wrong by a factor of 3 though, that’s cool.  It just seems like we should be using correct information because the bogus 2.5 mile stat has been thrown around dozen of times in a few of these comment sections.  7 MILES, NOT 2.5.

President O said that he would be a one-term president if he could one turn around the economy. The economy has not turned around and he wants a second term.

President O said that his economic stimulus package would keep unemployment under 8%. Unemployment has been above 8% for 3 years now.

President O said that my health care premium would not increase by one cent if Obamacase passed. My 10% increase last year and 4% increase must be my imagination then.

Which party lies, lies, lies?

Can’t say I Love the many comments on this one, where someone seems bent on deflecting the issue here.  That is:  That our 9-0 republican board of supervisors is proven to lie, lie, lie.  It is clear that the proposed tax rate will result in most of the tax payers in this County seeing their taxes go up, up, up.  Yet, this 9-0 republican board of supervisors lies, lies, lies, claiming that we will see no tax increase.  Clearly, you cannot trust a republican as far as you can throw one.

That was truly impressive. Bravo!

once all is said and done after paying direct taxes through payroll then at the pump, eatery, grocery store, etc., i pay over 50% of my yearly salary directly to the man. the man in turn spends my money whatever way he sees fit, which is sometimes wisely and sometimes not. a man making 10k probably has nothing in assets, but pays nothing towards all of the daily necessities gov’t provides. a man making 100k probably has some limited assets and pays at least 1/2 to the gov’t, but reaps no rewards for anything because he makes too much money as deemed by the liberal gov’t (whether democrat or republican) and struggles trememdously to pay for kids college, save money, etc. a man making 1 million was either lucky, very hard working and successful, or a combination of the two and is deemed to be the heir apparent to pay for all of the 10k’ers who never figured life out and continue to take, take, take. there are some very nice, honest, god fearing people that fall into that realm, but the majority are losers who will continue to suck the life out of this society. i have one such loser brother. i love him, but he is on his own and the light bulb will never turn on because of his poor work ethic, previous drug addictions, and compunction to allow the gov’t to partially fund his existence. there is compassion to be had for all persons struggling in our world. i feel saddened for kids born into squaller in some 3rd world countries and not for loser parents who are lazy, drug addicted or sponging off of society. i feel for their kids, but not for them. i feel no sympathy for criminals. i have compassion for my lady friend at 7-11 who works 2 full time jobs to support her family and their housing and education. she is hard working and deserved some compassion versus others who don’t care about me, you, our society, the us or the world. i don’t feel the wealthy should bear any remote burden for an unequal use of items such as school systems, roadways, military, etc. draw your own conclusions, but i represent a very large pecentage of what people think. i give moderately to various charities every year and don’t feel compelled to be forced by our gov’t to give to persons deemed unworthy of assistance. i genuinely help neighbors and look out for the community. i offer my free services and volunteer. our current gov’t seems bent on buying votes from the poor in order to stay in power while most of them really couldn’t care personally if you live or die. democrat, republican…. does it really matter?! will people and our gov’t ever step up to the plate and pull their own weight or more?! why not require persons sponging off the gov’t to community service. if you want to act like a child, and never step up to the plate, then why should we be forced to take responsibility for your existence….. the positions and salaries cited in the story and comments would be a moot factor, because we would be prosperous, if we weren’t paying for the criminals, lazy and other riff-raff who are depleting our pockets.

TJ is the most expensive tax payer funded private school on the planet. I know, my kid goes there.

Lots of talk about comparing Loudoun to Fairfax.  Some of you may not realize it but, in the 1960’s and 1970’s Fairfax was VERY MUCH like Loudoun with new developments being built across the county and schools needed for all of the children coming into the county.

Decades later, Fairfax has had to find new uses for those schools in neighborhoods that no longer have families with young children.  The same will happen in Loudoun years from now.  For now, we need schools for all of the children in the county.  You really can’t compare bells and whistles from the 1960’s to now.

New to Loudoun….Thomas Jefferson is indeed one of the best schools in the country.  It is also one of Fairfax County’s old schools that they have simply found a new use for.  It has plenty of bells and whistles on the inside.

Red Wolf… you replace property with income and this tax payer is outta here. I respectfully think that’s one of the worst things I’ve ever heard. Talk about a great way to kill the economy. Save the farms? I have a better way. Give your farm up for preservation easements so they will be protected…right up until the country government takes them for eminent domain.

Schools with bells and whistles?  LVHS’s gym is a garage.  LVHS’s windows are 50 years old and needs to have the shades down so that outside air doesn’t affect the inside temp as much.

Let’s take advantage of Loudoun County as the richest county by replacing Property taxes with an income tax.  It would help save the farms, and would increase the burden of the McMansions instead of those people who make a whole lot less. 

Also, instead of saying let’s cut government….why don’t we spend a little bit of money to make government transparent, fair to everyone, effective and not a system of backroom deals deals that favor businesses at the expense of homeowners.  Here’s looking at you, BZA board.

luxury schools with all the bells and whistles, whiteboards…

Hold on a minute, Babalooey. Chalk boards are being removed from the classroom because of the silica dust used in chalk. And another thing, if properly applied, a reasonable and meaningful application of technology has been shown to be more effective and can actually reduce head count. Sooo… let’s get our priorities in order. People, by far, are the most expensive line item in any operational budget.

Hopefully the Board will do the right thing and use this money to save other important programs and jobs.

Since when do county employees get more job security than the rest of us? My boss says we have to cut, then the potential exits for any one is fair game. That’s how it works. It’s good everyone feels the sting of the whip!

REPOSTED FROM ANOTHER ARTICLE ABOUT RAIL COMING TO LOUDOUN

Examiner Local Editorial: Gaping holes found in Dulles Rail revenue projections

Examiner Editorial

“Plenty of Room for Error,” a new study released by the Reston Citizens Association, demolishes the shaky financial footings of Dulles Rail Phase II and vindicates The Washington Examiner’s repeated warnings that this $3 billion-plus mass transit project is not financially viable. The 81-page analysis by RCA board member and retired federal economist Terry Maynard eviscerates the toll and revenue forecasts prepared for the Metrorail extension to Washington Dulles International Airport by Wilbur Smith Associates Inc. The key problem lies in how much revenue to expect from the Dulles Toll Road, funding without which the rail project simply cannot continue.

Maynard cites data from two national studies showing that the transportation consulting firm’s “optimism bias”—and its consistent use of the highest population and employment figures available—caused it to overestimate toll revenues for 12 projects by an average of 127 percent—more than double the actual revenue collected. Four toll roads experienced shortfalls within the first two years, causing major losses for owners and bondholders. Two even had to file for bankruptcy when the actual revenue proved insufficient to pay their debt service.

As RCA President Colin Mills said in a cover letter to federal, state and local officials, “WSA’s work in its two studies of the Dulles Toll Road so far show the same disturbing trends,” including “overestimating 2010 Fairfax employment by 25 percent in 2005 and 52 percent in 2009” when compared with 2010 census data. The pattern, he said, “suggests a substantial risk in proceeding with the Metrorail line’s current financial plan”—which depends on tolls collected on the DTR for 75 percent of Phase II funding.

If WSA’s updated revenue projections for Dulles Rail are as wildly inaccurate as they have been elsewhere in the past, Maynard warns that DTR tolls (now scheduled to rise to $4.50 one-way next year) would have to double. Mills added that the total cost of the Silver Line “will likely run to more than $14 billion in debt servicing and other obligations over the coming decades.”

The RCA study is particularly significant because the association has consistently supported Dulles Rail. That fact makes the Maynard study’s call for an independent second opinion before any final decisions on Phase II are made doubly important. As the RCA correctly points out, the risks of proceeding without accurate revenue estimates include depressed economic growth in the Dulles Corridor, increased traffic congestion on local roads, major debt restructuring and possible default. The Maynard study is a waving red flag that federal, state and local officials ignore at their constituents’ peril.

Lobster, we will get plenty of economic benefit if we turn the 2 metro stations into express bus stations and commuter parking, and we can take people back and forth to the metro.  Limos and taxis are everywhere in NYC because you need cars.  Rail is not the end all and be all…

If we opt out, we get a station at Dulles Airport and a station at Route 28 and we pay nothing, but if we stay in we will end up paying billions… when you factor in the debt service, what WMATA will “tell” us we have to pay for deferred maintenance (currently best case is more than $13 BILLION) and also tell us what our annual operations subsidy will be.. and we will get to pay for parking decks they demand (that are not part of the cost calculation) and all the infrastructure around the stations… Fairfax is paying $40 BILLION to make the Tysons station work…

We dont have that kind of money, being 2/3 rural…

If Loudoun’s average home prices dropped in half but our tax rate increased even a tiny bit, many of you would still complain about the rate without even acknowledging that the assessment values are an equally important part of the equation. When people feel unfairly taxes - as in the government wastes our tax dollars - then yes, I would say that I will always and forever complain…especially if you keep coming back for more and reducing my standard of living. My standard of living is never a concern of government. If you want higher taxes, then you’re free to donate your salary to the government. As for me, I like as much of what I earn resting safely under my mattress. 

I see a lot of waste here. The school budgets around the US always account for a statisticaly significant portion of the general fund. So what? does that mean we shouldn’t hold the schools accountable to control their spending? Poppy cock! We’re not holding them accountable enough. I won’t be happy until each and every department in the county thinks of every penny they spend as coming out of our pockets. But alas, they simply do not.

2.5 miles - 100 million annually at minimum to the taxpayers of LC. It is absolutely not worth it considering the toll increases, traffic nightmares and devaluation of our homes. If anything the 2.5 miles will detract from businesses locating in Loudoun because no one will want to drive here. What business would bring their employees into the highest taxed county with the steepest tolls and most congested roads? None, they will go to Fairfax or PWC. Just because Scott York has a dream of Rail to Loudoun doesn’t mean we have to finance it.

If this things gets rammed through, we are leaving the county. Sorry Scott, you just lost a steady taxpayer.

@Loudoun County - Apparently you just like to attack me without reading what I’ve wrote.  Here, let me copy and paste the relevant comment for you:

“And no, we do not get all the benefits of Metro by having it end at 28.  We may get many of the rider benefits, but NONE OF THE ECONOMIC BENEFITS THAT WILL GROW UP AROUND THE STATIONS.  Again, if a large company is looking to relocate to this area, and they can be on the edge of Fairfax near a Metro station, why would they ever come just that extra 2.5 miles further?  They wouldn’t.  So Fairfax can collect the benefits of additional tax revenue while we get nothing.”

Again, I reiterate, that 2.5 miles is crucial.  Western Fairfax property is probably similarly priced to Loudoun property.  If I’m looking to relocate a corporate facility, why would I bother going into Loudoun when just 2.5 miles away I can be next to Metro for my workers?  More tax revenue for Fairfax, none for us.

Make sense?

Another argument people seem to bring up is the additional road maintenance cost around the stations.  If our roads are going to get worn down that quickly, that means I guess we’re going to have a heck of a lot of Metro usage and it will be a smashing success.

I’m sorry, but many of you have no balance to your argument.  You’re coming up with every possible negative you can think of, attributing negatives to the project that aren’t even real or relevant, and then are assuming it will provide zero positive benefits whatsoever.  Biased much?

Cut county staff!!!  They seem to have a lot less projects on their plates and spend plenty of time making up work such as the CBPO.  They also need to be held responsible for bad decisions such as the Aldie land purchase that cannot be used due to HOA regs.  There seems to be a lot of water cooler time and costly mistakes made.

“All this for 2.5 miles of rail into Loudoun, when we could just use the Rt 28 station on the Fairfax County line and the Dulles Airport station and pay NOTHING?”

Lobster, how do you beat that value proposition?  Sure, there would be some benefit to the Metro station in Loudoun, but when you weigh the cost and traffic headaches, how can you justify doing it?

We can have it so close at NO COST to us.

Or we can have a 2.5 mile appendage at HUGE COSTS with a lot of TBD costs included.

I bet $100 the new metro stations are not going to have enough parking… just like all the other metro stations in the system.

@oversold and under delivered - You keep acting like Loudoun will be responsible for the deferred maintenance of the ENTIRE SYSTEM!

And no, we do not get all the benefits of Metro by having it end at 28.  We may get many of the rider benefits, but NONE OF THE ECONOMIC BENEFITS THAT WILL GROW UP AROUND THE STATIONS.  Again, if a large company is looking to relocate to this area, and they can be on the edge of Fairfax near a Metro station, why would they ever come just that extra 2.5 miles further?  They wouldn’t.  So Fairfax can collect the benefits of additional tax revenue while we get nothing.

You claim everybody is going to be forced onto Rt 7…or….wait for it…..they could ride Metro!  From the new stations!  Chances are that anybody commuting on the toll road or 7 work in places that Metro serves.

And enough with this constant whining about how phase II isn’t worth doing because it’s not getting federal dollars.  The project has to be assessed on its own merits, and the MWAA and state are paying a ton of phase II.

On top of all these costs you keep going on about, you keep neglecting that Metro does, in fact, generate revenue, substantially off-setting these costs.

All you focus on are the costs, with ZERO regard to economic benefits, transportation benefits, the fact that additional widening or east-west roads may not have to be built because of Metro’s presence.

By your logic, we should never built another road in this county unless it’s a toll road that pays for itself.

Agree to disagree.

Lobster, the only way the metro number is as small as you keep pretending is if you ignore all the millions of dollars of debt service, ignore the TBD deferred maintenance costs (currently totaling $13-16 Billion) the operation costs (also TBD, but probably at least $100 M per year increasing every year) and of course the Dulles Toll Road increases that even MWAA says will go to over $10 each way, and which will send the average Loudouner (and those from further west) onto Rte 7, destroying property values in Ashburn and places like that, making Loudoun a very undesirable place to live…

You also ignore all the road improvements that will be necessary to service the metro stops in Loudoun—Fairfax County will spend $40 Billion just on roads to make the Tyson’s station work…and Fairfax County got federal money for phase 2.

WE get no federal money for phase 2.

Also, Fairfax County set up a tax district near the proposed stations to pay for metro, did not make everyone else pay, like Loudoun is suggesting…

All this for 2.5 miles of rail into Loudoun, when we could just use the Rt 28 station on the Fairfax County line and the Dulles Airport station and pay NOTHING?

Dulles Airport is close enough for metro, we do not need to spend billions for 2.5 miles of rail into our County… and be forced to join corrupt WMATA and pay a portion of all of the out of date union hi jacked metro system’s operation costs and maintenance…

WE get the benefit without any of the cost if we stay out of it and let them build it to 28 and Dulles, and let Fairfax County and MWAA pay for it…

@New to Loudoun - I guarantee that your guarantee is in fact correct.  Fairfax had explosive growth in the 50s and 60s, larger than we’ve experienced here, and similar growth in the 70s.  What was their property tax rate back then?  $1.74 for a couple years at the end of the 70s, $1.72 for more than the first half of the 70s, with a reprieve of $1.64 and $1.54 in between.  So to manage their explosive growth, they needed property taxes that were 35% higher (by rate) than ours are now.  You all seems to be focused on the rate (and not the corresponding property values), so I might as well too, right?

Also, I appreciate your concern for my well-being.  I’m highly-educated and very comfortably employed.  I have indeed spent 1 to 1 1/2 hours over the past couple of days posting here.  Mostly because these are issues I care about, and because of the uneducated, bogus facts being thrown around by others.  Perhaps you find it difficult to believe, but it’s actually pretty easy to get work done while taking small breaks here-and-there.

@oversold and under delivered - “Apparently Lobster thinks money is no object… “.  You couldn’t be more wrong.  I’ve always said we need to contain costs.  However, I also educate myself on the facts first before spouting off here.  I’m enough of a realist to realize that our county is in a very different situation than many others and is not managed all that much more efficiently or inefficiently than others around us.  I also prefer to look at things in terms of data and long-term benefits.  This nonsense about metro causing “some” to say our tax rates will hit $2 is hilarious.  That would be an over 55% increase from where we are now.  If the proposed FY13 budget is $1.8 billion, that would be a yearly tax increase for us of $1 billion.  So in other words, if we raised taxes to that rate for just one year, we could pay for our portion of phase II and the garages outright all at once, plus still have $.5 billion leftover for maintenance!  Really?  Does that sound logical to you that our taxes would go up that much?  Heck, let’s just raise taxes to that rate for 6-7 years and pay for all of Phase I and II ourselves! Outright, no financing! ;-)

It’s also absurd to me that by opting out of Metro, we’d be leaving hundreds of millions of dollars on the table from the state and MWAA.  If we can continue working to keep costs down, it’s insane to me that we’d leave all of that money from other parties on the table.  Our stations have all sorts of commercial zoning around them.  The county has set the groundwork for them to thrive.  You’re just balking at the number because it looks big to you, despite the fact that the long-term impact of the cost isn’t as massive as you make it out to be.

Lobster, I guarantee you that Fairfax County was in our position a few decades ago, and they built larger more utilitarian schools on smaller sites and the PTAs have raised money for the few turf fields they have.  Adjust what Ffx spent on school construction for inflation, and you will see that Loudoun is spending WAY WAY more on luxury schools with all the bells and whistles, whiteboards, stuff that Fairfax County does not claim to need, not even Thomas Jefferson, the best school in the nation… very modest campus, terrible fields, some Division 1 athletes who manage to get by….

You sure have a lot of time, most of the comments on these boards are yours… is this your job to post on the internet or are you unemployed?

I guess I’m above average on something.  My home and those on my street and nearby streets have an assessment about 9% higher than last year.  This is way over the realistic market price, as comparable homes, not short sales or foreclosures, have sold for about 15-20 LESS than assessments.  The assessments are not realistic, so let’s talk about the real equalization rate, it would be near $1.18.  I could only hope!

If this article is correct, than the 9-0 republican board members should resign now, in shame, for lying to us.  An unchanged tax rate, with county residential values up, means a TAX INCREASE.  Yet, this 9-0 republican board of supervisors is going around bragging that our taxes will not be going up.  One can, perhaps, forgive a fool.  But one cannot forgive a liar.

@oversold and under delivered - See, if you’re going to try to make an argument, perhaps you shouldn’t cherry pick the stats I named that suit your purpose and then ignore the rest.  Did you see anything about the population growth?  About the school population?  Even accounting for your criticism, the logic holds.

Lobster, LCPS’s numbers don’t tell the whole story.  If you add in the cost of the debt financing for paying the bonds for building the schools, the cost per pupil goes way up to about $14,500.  It is an accounting trick to say it is about $12,400 because that doesn’t tell the whole story.

If you broke down PWC’s school numbers, you would find the same delineations your are mentioning, so the question stands:  why is PWC’s rate so much lower than ours?

For clarification, I meant the operating budget percentages.  Since this is represented as a percentage, the only explanation for why LCPS is so much higher is that they are so much less efficient.

Lobsters numbers are all wrong.  Loudoun’s average home price as of June 2011 was $410,388 (not $378,000), and statistics showed Loudoun’s prices were so low only because we have had so many foreclosures… so as soon as the foreclosures settle down (and we have had one the highest national average for foreclosures) then our home prices should rise again..

Plus it is well known that Fairfax assesses their residential properties very conservatively (erring on too low as opposed to too high) while Loudoun does just the opposite and is known for assessing at more than what a property can sell for.

Fairfax got sued a lot and learned their lesson.. the recent BOE appeal by John Flannery where Flannery billed the Board $85,000 for a couple of hours of appearances in the General District Court—they should have to pay like this every time they do something stupid, and maybe they will start to act in a more conservative and responsible way..

Lobsters analysis on our rate is all wrong, double check his figures…

Also Lobster wants to build metro the 2.5 miles into Loudoun… after that we will have to cut something major because it will costs us big time, some are saying out tax rate will have to go to $2.00 to pay for it ($16 B in deferred maintenance, broken escalators, bad breaks, new trains), etc.

Apparently Lobster thinks money is no object…

@Loudoun County - We don’t necessarily have larger schools.  In fact, many of the schools built in the last decade here are significantly smaller than schools that have been in operation in Fairfax for 30-40 years.

“70% of property taxes goes to operating costs”.  Again, not true.  66% of our property taxes go to schools overall.  And of that 66% (based on the FY13 proposals), it looks like 78% goes to operating costs.  66% X 78% = 51% of our tax dollars going to school operating costs.  I’m not sure where you got the 70%.

Additionally, do a Google search for “Budget Facts: Loudoun’s Cost Per Pupil”.  The first link shows that we’re near the bottom of spending cost per pupil, only bested by PWC and Manassas Park.

By all accounts, I can’t see where people think all this waste is occurring.  Also, if you look at what percentage of our operational budget is actually spend on in-school personnel as opposed to administration, Fairfax is the only county in the area that spends less than us (trying to find the link again for that one).

So the County Administrator is proposing to hand the new Sheriff 1 MILLION dollars to do whatever he wants with?  And this while other people may lose their jobs?  Why isn’t this Sheriff required to specifically outline what he plans to do with this money?  Never heard of anything like this before.  In previous years every single enhancement request for the LCSO was picked apart and now us taxpayers are just gonna hand over a million bucks so the Sheriff can bring in more feds and PR people?  Hopefully the Board will do the right thing and use this money to save other important programs and jobs.

OK, Lobster, if what you say is true, then why the disparity of 57% to 70% for an operational budget?

Your logic may hold true for the amount of debt we have for building the schools, but our 70% of property taxes goes to operating costs.  I would think the opposite should be true.  A larger school should have economies of scale so the percentage should be lower.

@Snoopy - Nice try, but no.  My stats are solid.  Have you looked at the last two decades of population growth for both counties?

Prince William:
2000 - 30.2%
2010 - 43.2%

Loudoun:
2000 - 96.9%
2010 - 84.1%

Even if just look at the last decade, we’re growing nearly twice as fast as PWC.  What does growth mean?  It means we have to drop a ton of money into building new schools to keep up with that growth.  When you’re dealing with twice the growth, you can’t magically expect school infrastructure spending to be equivalent in both counties.

And when you consider the pop growth in the last decade in Fairfax (11.5%) and Arlington (9.6%), it’s even more amazing that are taxes are what they are when we’ve experienced roughly 7-9 times the growth of those two counties.

How can you compare school infrastructure needs here when the population is growing at such a blisteringly fast rate compared to everyone else?

It’s not hard, as in Fairfax’s case, to deal with an 11.5% growth over the course of a decade.  But nearly double the growth, as in our situation?  You don’t think there are special challenges to being the 5th fastest growing county in the country?

I commend your attempt to call me out on my “excuses”, but try again.

Lobster, Your own statistics are ratting you out. Look at PWC and LC comparisons. Same percentage of school aged kids but PWC’s School budget is 57% of their total budget while LC’s is 70%. LC’s is 75% with debt service, it can’t get much worse! Something is out of whack, and you are making excuses.

Econ101 is right, what company in their right mind will relocate to LC when we are known for having the highest tax rate in the state AND the Board is looking at adding transportation obligations that will increase taxes, clog the roads via skyrocketing tolls and debt that is near default? If the school budget isn’t bad enough, look out for the debt freight train called Dulles Rail Phase II.

Get Real, the vast majority of the debt service is for paying for the schools we built.  Take out safety, and you are looking at 75%+ going to LCPS for their operationg budget or to support schools built for LCPS.

Because the school budget overwhelmingly makes up the majority of real estate taxes. Didn’t you read the pamphlet that came with your assessment or look at the pretty pie chart?

@Econ 101 - “Loudoun hs the highest property tax rates in the Commonwealth.”

Loudoun also has the highest school age population (at least in the DC area, probably the state too).

% of households with children under 18:
Loudoun - 43.10%
Fairfax - 36.30%
Prince William - 42.2%
Arlington - 19.30%
Montgomery County - 35%
Prince George’s - 36.4%

Schools make up about 2/3 of our budget, do they not?  If we compare ourselves to Fairfax, we have 18.7% more families with children under 18 than they do.  Do the math.  If all else is exactly equal, our tax rate needs to be over 12% higher than Fairfax’s just to maintain an IDENTICAL LEVEL OF SERVICE since we have such a large school population.

We have over double the school aged population per capita of Arlington.  Prince William is the only county that’s comparable to us and (surprise!) their tax rate is similar!

Here’s some more fun with math.  THE TAX RATE ITSELF IS MEANINGLESS WITHOUT PUTTING IT IN CONTEXT WITH HOME PRICES:

Average Prices:
Loudoun - $ 378,600
Fairfax - $ 429,300
Arlington - $ 536,500

If Loudoun’s average home prices dropped in half but our tax rate increased even a tiny bit, many of you would still complain about the rate without even acknowledging that the assessment values are an equally important part of the equation.

“Eighty-five cents of every dollar of local tax funding goes toward schools, debt service and public safety, Hemstreet noted.”

Why is it that when some people read a statement such as this, what they hear (or choose to repeat) is: 85 cents of every dollar goes to the schools. period.

So, DEBT SERVICE and LAW ENFORCEMENT don’t cost much?? 

I’m tired of all the twisted ways people use the numbers in these “discussions”.

“Eighty-five cents of every dollar of local tax funding goes toward schools, debt service and public safety, Hemstreet noted.”

Hello!! If you want to cut the budget, go where the money is. LCPS is strangling the rest of the county with their bloated budget. Taking small cuts from the remaining 32 agencies will get the budget nowhere, we need balance. Watch as Hatrick instigates an all out assault on the Board today and tonight, red shirts, hand made signs, little Timmy and Suzy crying that their teachers and school are the best things since sliced bread.

And how about reconsidering the Western LCSO substation? 5.7 million saved right there. How can you cut Public Safety jobs, as listed in the article, when you are expanding the LCSO? This makes no sense.

@laissezlesbontempsrouller…...nope not a county employee….but it’s better than the game they are going to play about pretending to cut the rate and not do it.  just be honest and keep it as is….forget all the showmanship that comes up every year.  And for everyone who complains about how they were cut, don’t get benefits, etc….then find a better job.  Just because you choose to stay in a field or with an employer that uses you doesn’t me everyone has to be treated the same.  Misery loves company, but company doesn’t love misery.

cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, etc. etc.

Why does this county always hold fake public hearings? We all know the public opinion doesn’t really matter.

It’s like how an HOA operates. You can have 300 homeowners saying “NO”. But if the 5 people on the board say “YES”, you are going to do it.

Reduce the budget and pay on the debt.

If you do the math:

County Drug Court ($71,100 per position)
Countywide Energy Program ($142,350 per position)
Health and Welfare ($92,221 per position)
Portions of Parks, Recreation and Community Services ($36,057 per position)
Public Safety and Judicial Administration ($118,600 per position)

Who says County employees are underpaid? The only ones underpaid here are the Parks, Recreation and Community Services.

... and at the end of the day they will increase the tax rate.

What a surprise ending.

Loudoun hs the highest property tax rates in the Commonwealth. 

Question: Do high tax rates help or hurt Loudoun in our prospects for attracting a commerical tax bse and employment?  Would we be better off or worse off with more businesses paying a higher percentage of property taxes?  Would we be better off or worse off with more emplyment centers in LoCo vs. Fairfax? 

If you are like our President who believes that higher taxes have no effect on growth, then we should raise taxes even higher and attempt to achieve “suburban utopia” in LoCo. Cut nothing, indeed add some more assistant principals, energy program stafffers, etc.  After all, we are the wealthiest county in the USA and can easily afford it. We must do “our fair share.”

enuf must be a county employee that wants Hemstreets proposed raise. 

We took a ten percent reduction in salary last year, and a ten percent reduction again the beginning of this year…

As Obama says, everyone must share in the pain…. why do County employees deserve a raise?  Why do we need to spend almost $300,000 on two FT positions in the Energy Program.  Yes, they saved money turning off the lights and their computers, but did we need to spend all that to just make common sense adjustments that the ordinary family is already doing???

Cut it 5% PLEASE!

Tim, who the heck is considered an average Loudoun homeowner? Is it based on my house? my earnings? my education level?
Basically most people in Loudoun will see an increase since most of the people I’ve spoken to, stated their assessments were up from last year.
Hopefully, BOS will find more cuts to lower a rate to around $1.15-$1.20. I calculated at $1.20, my taxes would stay the same and I could become one of those average homeowners.

stay with the 0% budget