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    UPDATE: Board decides to keep displays; vote will be moved to next year’s board

    photoThe skeleton Santa can be seen here dismantled from the crucifix that it had be hung on. According to authorities, the display was vandalized around noon on Dec. 5. Times-Mirror Photo/Laura Peters

    It’s that time of year again, when holiday cheer fills the air and the Loudoun County Courthouse lawn is scattered with potentially offensive displays and outraged citizens.

    One display has already received some extra attention. The display in question, a skeleton in a Santa suit on a crucifix, was torn down by a vandal around noon on Dec. 5, according to Loudoun County Sheriff’s Office spokesman Kraig Troxell.

    The display

    The owner of the display is Middleburg resident Jeff Heflin Jr., according to Julie Withrow, a Loudoun County administrator.

    On Heflin’s application for inclusion in the courthouse display, he described his entry as “art work of Santa on a cross to depict society’s materialistic obsessions and addictions and how it is killing the peace, love, joy and kindness that is supposed to be prevalent during the holiday season.” Heflin is not part of any organization and sponsored the display himself.

    According to an email sent by Leesburg Town Council member and Republican Leesburg Supervisor-elect Ken Reid, he was “utterly outraged” when he saw the display.
    “It is my intent as the new Supervisor for Leesburg to seek changes in the county policy so these outrageous anti-religious displays are not debasing the lawn of our beloved courthouse,” Reid wrote in the email.

    Loudoun resident Gisela S. Bresler wrote a letter to the Board of Supervisors about her concerns with the display.

    “Perhaps the person or organization that displayed this monstrosity wants to make a point that Christmas is dead, or that Christ is dead,” Bresler wrote.

    “The point is that free speech is a two-way street. It is fine for whoever decided to display this obnoxious thing to have it displayed, but it is also correct for those who are insulted by it to speak against it. I am, therefore condemning this and I am repulsed by the fact of it,” the letter continued.

    “I don’t like Santa on the cross, either. I think that’s disgusting,” Supervisor Stevens Miller (D-Dulles) said. “That’s why I was the only supervisor to vote against using the courthouse lawn for displays of that kind.”

    The removal of skeleton Santa

    Withrow said that she received several calls from residents about about the display after it was taken down.

    “I’ve had several calls from folks who observed a woman go onto the courthouse lawn and take down the Santa skeleton on the cross display and put it on the ground,” Withrow said. “One of our staff members asked her if it was her and she said no.”

    “We’re there to protect the grounds, those displays are private property of the owner,” Withrow continued.

    WUSA 9 reporter Peggy Fox was at the scene when the woman was vandalizing the piece. She said that a Loudoun County Sheriff’s deputy was watching and then approached the scene, but ended up speaking with Fox, not the woman. He informed Fox that she wasn’t allowed to film on the courthouse lawn.

    “While I’m shooting her, I see a sheriff’s deputy and he ignored her and came to me,” Fox said. “He told me I couldn’t film on the lawn.”

    According to Circuit Court Judge Thomas D. Horne’s secretary, Alice Alkire, media are allowed to take photos on the courthouse lawn because it is public grounds.

    Fox asked the deputy if he was going to do anything about the woman dismantling the display and he responded he wasn’t going to bother with it.

    However, Troxell denied those allegations, and said the Sheriff’s Office is reviewing the procedures related to allowing cameras on the courthouse property .

    “The deputy was out there taking a look at it to further investigate what had occurred,” he said.

    “It later came to our attention that the resident dismantling the display was not the applicant who erected the item. It is our understanding the item was later removed by the applicant. The Sheriff’s Office is conducting a thorough investigation into this matter to determine what, if any, criminal violations have occurred and potential charges,” Troxell said in a release.

    “We had the same thing happen a year ago when Ed Myers put up some vulgar parody lyrics of the ‘Twelve Days of Xmas,” said Miller. “Well, those came down within an hour and that’s vigilantes. What I think is stunning is that we have all these people who say we have a right to put whatever we want up because of the First Amendment. I can only hope that it’s different people who go out and tear down the ones they don’t like.”

    Rick Wingrove, president of the Virginia Chapter of American Atheists, said the county needs to do something about having displays on the lawn.

    Changes to the displays

    A board-appointed citizen group, the Courthouse Grounds and Facilities Committee, recommended in December 2009 that the county ban courthouse displays. The board later denied the committee’s request.  The debate resurfaced in July 2010 when the committee requested a ban be put in place on courthouse lawn displays. The board decided that anyone could put up displays on the lawn on a first-come, first-serve basis, with 10 spots, recently reduced to nine.

    The courthouse lawn display issue was brought up during the board’s Dec. 6 meeting where Miller motioned for the rules of the displays to be suspended in order to discuss the issue. The motioned failed with a 5-4 vote.

    Miller said the displays were “turning the courthouse lawn into a chamber of horrors.” Other supervisors agreed that the displays were causing more of a problem than necessary.

    “I think I’ve reached a point where I think, in the terms of the physical conditions of the courthouse grounds and the uproar we have each year, I’m for ‘no’ on courthouse displays,” Supervisor Sally Kurtz (D-Catoctin) said.

    Supervisor Lori Waters (R-Broad Run) said she was tired of seeing such animosity on the displays.

    “I’m tired of it. It’s December and, regardless of what you celebrate, isn’t this the time to put the energy to advancing something in the community to do something good?” Waters asked. “Generally I’d like to see the community stop having this nastiness and put your energy to something good instead of just being mean.”

    Chairman Scott York (R-At Large) said that it is now a timing issue and it will be brought up early next year with the new board.

    photo
    photoBefore the display was vandalized. Courtesy Photo
    photoAfter the display was vandalized. Times-Mirror Staff Photo/Laura Peters
    Comments

    @An Enlightened Being (ironic name)- Just because something cannot be disproven does not make it proven.

    Just because one cannot disprove aliens visited the Egyptians and gave them technology does not prove that it happened.

    Religion is faith because there is no proof of God.


    Hey Ken, thanks for an intelligent outline of what you believe. Here are my perspectives on your comments:

      KEN > 1. Simple logic says that you can’t disprove anything, it is only possible to prove something. And religious people have zero evidence for existence of their deity.

      I see your point. Though if something is proven true, it usually does disqualify competing theories. But in any case, here is the best part of the conversation for both of us. And it’s a doozy: We are both working with the exact same evidence for each of our world views.

    Everything depends on where we start, our beginning frame of reference. I have never been afraid of proof that God is vapor and in turn false. Having an open mind to consider all things is a plus not a minus. But so far science only answers some of the “how” we work, not “why” we work.

    For many of us, God has been very present and visible in many ways. But again unless we are both open to all options without discounting what may be true then you are right - in your eyes there is no evidence.

      KEN> My opinion is that the meaning of existence is to pass on the digital code that comprises DNA. The DNA gets shuffled through generations, but our bodies simply exist as a container for the DNA, which has been getting passed down generationally since the beginning of life. The body and brain are essentially only a tool of the gene to reproduce itself.

      I agree with the idea here, but it’s the process part of life, not necessarily the meaning of life. I can easily understand how someone could write the notion of God off. But on my side it’s just as hard to think that what you just said has no more meaning than a human zeros machine. Seems so strange and pointless. And to be honest if that really was all there is - why not war and take what you can get during your short shot at temporary existence.

      KEN > Every emotion (even the capacity for religion, jealousy, hate, love) that a human (or animal) possesses helped the gene survive to this point.

      So, let’s talk this emotion component. If we are truly wired to make genetic copies of ourselves and that’s it - then where did all of the passion, compassion, love, hate and the rest come from? If you believe that evolution has some purpose then doesn’t the mere fact these traits are deep within all of us means they should be?

      KEN > Its a philosophy without bronze-age, superstitious, middle-eastern derived garbage beliefs (Christianity, Judaism, Islam).

      I actually understand why you believe this. Religion has killed and ruined more people than anything else in the history of the world. But take a closer look at Jesus, and what He is really all about. It wasn’t the hookers and sinners that made him angry - he loves and see the best in us all.  His anger raged in the temple courtyard when the religious leaders had turned it into a money driven side show. And we see that even today on TV at times.

      But Jesus isn’t a philosophy or mere religion. I think one of the most compelling thoughts is how so long after He lived on earth - just mention of His name above any other strikes such a chord. He is blistered and chided by those who can’t objectively read His words. Such radical things like truly love your neighbor and don’t even think about using people. Consider those less fortunate - but don’t treat them as such. If someone wants your help regardless of who they are (or what they believe) go with them. These are indeed the words of a crazy person hell bent on destroying society. Or are they?

      KEN> The end.

      Well, I don’t believe that :) 

      Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays


    @Mom the Amoeba - my apologies, I hope you didn’t take offense to my slight at you and your son.  Sorry to hear about cuz Organic Soup, maybe you can get it a Bunsen Tutor to heat up its skills.


    My Dearest Kenneth,

    I know I told you that you were adopted, but you deserve the truth.  I asexually reproduced with myself to create you. 

    If you are not busy this weekend, please come over and we can encircle some food particles.

    Love,
    Mom the Amoeba

    P.S. Your cousin Organic Soup failed his math test again.  Perhaps you could tutor him.


    @Kenny - So by your own words, God, Faith and whether or not there is communication between you the Deity cannot be disproven.  I would rather believe in the Creator then believe my ancestor is an amoeba.


    @Frank

    Thank you for your message, Festivus is awesome.

    1. Simple logic says that you can’t disprove anything, it is only possible to prove something. And religious people have zero evidence for existence of their deity.

    2. Do you really think you have the ability to communicate with your deity through telepathy? Has your deity ever talked back, or is it a one-way street?

    My opinion is that the meaning of existence is to pass on the digital code that comprises DNA. The DNA gets shuffled through generations, but our bodies simply exist as a container for the DNA, which has been getting passed down generationally since the beginning of life.

    The body and brain are essentially only a tool of the gene to reproduce itself.

    Every emotion (even the capacity for religion, jealousy, hate, love) that a human (or animal) possesses helped the gene survive to this point.

    When our bodies die, no worries, our genes will live on in our offspring, or nieces/nephews etc.

    Its a philosophy without bronze-age, superstitious, middle-eastern derived garbage beliefs (Christianity, Judaism, Islam).

    The end.


    Kenneth,

    Your kids must look forward to the 25th with unabated anticipation to open their Festivus presents. 

    “Look Sally - another microscope because we are smart scientists and can disprove the existence of all deities.”

    However, I suspect you require the airing of grievances and feats of strength before opening presents.

    Merry Christmas!

    I am praying for your soul.  //<—Free speech//


    As an atheist I really hate it when fellow non believers start talking about being smarter than religious people because often the argument is pithy and not at all intelligent on either end.

    However some of the so called Christians on here should be ashamed of themselves. This is not some religious government system in America where you have the right to attack any perceived criticism of your religion.

    In order for the government to allow religious symbolism on their property they need to allow all opinions to be heard and guess what you are just going to have to let it slide or you will have to chose to only put up your display at your religious center and forget about the government space. Those are your options under free speech in America. Do not act like the Taliban.


    Hey Ken, stop wasting your time on what you don’t believe about us and provide some solid answers on what you do believe. And in keeping with your benevolently articulated rules of faith vs. proof, lay out the inarguable evidence for your “non small minded” and grown up beliefs.

      This is gonna get interesting, because I have a feeling what you believe is just as much a question of faith as mine.

      What’s really funny too a lot of us is how you decry such things yet can’t provide any real answers yourself. Oh, and remember, it’s not about me or what I believe this time. The floor is yours. If you do have anything one would think it could convince at least the “less intelligent” that linger behind you.

      Now, can you be a big boy and do that? Gooood…


    Bluedog,

    I have every right to mock your religion, would you prefer a Pakistani/Saudi version of blasphemy laws in this country? From what I’m aware, I’m not breaking any laws by mocking your small-minded superstition/religious beliefs. Therefore, I have every right to verbalize what I think is true.

    Your religion is ridiculous because you think you are special because:
    1. You’ve found eternal salvation (without any evidence)
    2. You have some special knowledge that non-christians do not.
    3. Yours is the only “true” religion (as religions are mutually exclusive). 

    Btw, I can tell you the most likely scenario when you die: nothing. You cease to exist, no heaven, no meeting long-lost relatives etc. Why is that so difficult to accept? Instead, religions conjure an afterlife to comfort the masses.

    To most thinking people, false hope is worth nothing.

    Anyways, there is as much evidence of the existence of your god exists as there is for leprechauns.

    And there isn’t any evidence of an afterlife, so you believe things as a child believes in fairy tales, yet you’re an adult.

    So sad.


    Blue Dog you are unAmerican if you think it is okay to rip down a display because you disagree with it. What if I went around ripping down religious displays, or Santa Clauses?


    Kenneth, I learned long ago that you can’t argue with babies, drunks and idiots.  But here I go anyway….

    No, you do not have the right to belittle anyone’s belief system, no matter how idiotic you may think it is.  Individuals choose their belief system as you have chosen your belief system.  You arrived at your beliefs somehow, and they are your personal beliefs.  Others did the same.  You can only decide what is right for you, not tell everyone else they are wrong-headed and misguided. The real detriment of religion and philosophy is not when we guide ourselves by our personal beliefs that make us better people and care for our neighbors, but is is when we try to impose our beliefs on others, as history has shown. To bring this all around to the original argument, nothing on that Courthouse lawn imposed a philosophy or belittled anyone else’s beliefs until the crucified Santa came along.  Even the atheists presented their point of view, not lambasted the believers for their adherence to their religion.  Unless you have some foresight, you have no way of knowing what happens at the end of your time on this planet.  So, it logically follows that you have no way of knowing what happens next.  You, my friend, can be wrong as well.


    I’ve read every comment posted b/c I value different opinions. I don’t necessarly like them but I can agree to disagree b/c they are just opinions. Im a christian and proud of it.  I don’t believe in arguing about whether there is a God or not.  I know how I feel & what I believe, that’s all that matters to me. Everyone has a choice & I choose to believe He was born in a manger, healed sick & lame, died on a cross for my sins, rose on the 3rd day with all power!  That’s my choice. I live in a country that allows me that priviledge.  We don’t have to argue God’s word with unbelievers b/c it’s their choice not to believe.  It’s our obligation to pray for them. God does the rest. He knows who will & won’t come to Him.  Jeremiah 33, I think talks about if you see your brother is sinning & you dont tell him the right way, his sin is your sin.  If you tell him and he continues to sin, its back on him.  You’ve stated your beliefs and they refuse to hear you, pray and keep it moving. God is there if anyone decides to call on Him but He is a gentleman. He won’t come in uninvited! I pray for unbelievers everyday but Im realistic enough to know that there are some who never will believe no matter what you say, or what happens in their lives.  It will only be on that day when EVERY KNEE WILL BOW AND EVERY TONGUE WILL CONFESS JESUS CHRIST IS LORD! Unfortunately, it will be too late…..Its what I believe and it’s my choice to believe just like you choose not to.  Im not mad at your choice nor will I argue the point with anyone b/c I can respect your right not to believe. We seem to have lost respect for ea other along the way.  We want to be angry with anyone who do not agree with us.  I can respect the young man’s desire to make his point b/c we have gotten away from the real meaning of Christmas.  I don’t agree with using the cross to do it. As a Christian, Im not supposed to be ok with it.  As non believers, you don’t see the cross like I see it.  To you, it’s two boards nailed together.  To me, a symbol of suffering & shame. I’d rather see nothing on the courthouse lawn than to see the displays that have made their way there.  In the end you can’t please everyone so the BOS should not allow any displays and maybe we can start to heal and come together as a community no matter what you believe.


    @Kenneth, Was it you that asked for an explanation of belief? That’s such a big question & not easily typed. How can an atheist understand I wondered, & how does an atheist feel? In my Christan studies, I was told about an author named Lee Strobel who was an atheist. He is not now, but he writes about his journey in book “The Case for Christ” . Maybe that would be enlightening considering your point of view currently. I was raised Christian & both my parents have remarkable faith. I have always felt the Holy Spirit working in my life, but in the last year & a half, I did find a church that is incredible & what was “ok” is now “spectucular”. It is never too late to discover faith in God (unless you are already dead). Another easy read is “23 minutes in hell” by Bill Wiese. A true account of visiting Hell-told so others would know what it is like. Interesting reading. I wish you happiness & fulfillment my friend. :)


    Kenneth, you have every right to mock or criticize another person’s beliefs. But neither do much other than make you look petty. It really doesn’t matter if you think the majority of the planet is wrong. It doesn’t matter that we are feeble little morons in your eyes.

      What matters is that no matter how much you yell, throw tantrums and demand attention - you will never have the eternal impact of Jesus Christ, who’s heard it all before.

      What matters is that when you may need help after losing everything, we will care for you too.

      What matters is that the majority of the planet thinks what you believe is based on fear. It’s easy to sit and spout against others to try to hold to a higher calling when you run from any sign of moral measurement yourself. What are you running from?

      The truth is right now you can’t change even if you wanted to - and that’s not a place that freedom lives.


    @Kenneth: go back to watching your DvR’d “Robot Chicken” repeats. ROFL!


    Bluedog wrote:
    “But, as an American you cannot belittle or undermine another person’s beliefs…. You can observe your own rituals, but your right to do so ends where it belittles someone else’s belief system or seeks to undermine or destroy their observances.”
    ———————————————-

    Blue dog, your statement is wrong on so many levels.

    As an American, I have the FULL right to belittle or undermine another person’s beliefs. Are you saying religious beliefs are unquestionable and not subject to criticism? Are there laws I don’t know about that protect religion from critique or mocking?

    For me, Chrisitianity, Judaism, Islam are belief systems equally moronic and simply where small-minded, gullible people find comfort from their own fears. These religions are based on primitive bronze-age, middle eastern morals.

    What demented deity would have a commandment to not say a deity’s name in vain, yet not have “Do not rape” as a commandment? 

    It is unfathomable that people would follow religions created in one of the most awful regions on our planet.

    Anyways, I didn’t know I didn’t have the right to mock other people idiotic belief systems. Thank you for letting me know.


    The great thing about America, “Deal”, is that you have an equal right to not go along.  If you don’t like it, you don’t have to participate, rather than throw a tantrum and call Santa on a cross a tribute to the commercialism of Christmas as this “artist” did.  Funny the only thing disturbed was the Santa.  What it means is that it offends the community standard, which is a long tried and true gauge of whether something is inciting, or not.  Christmas has been a national, and therefore secular, holiday in the US since President Grant.  It is, for many, a religious holiday, but it is also for many a secular holiday of the end of the year, prosperity, compassion for others and giving.  Interestingly, Christmas is celebrated by Buddhists and Shinto practitioners in Japan.  It is observed, it is tolerated, and it is enjoyed as a secular festival, despite only one half of one percent of Japanese being Christians.  Americans are tolerant as well and allow multiple disciplines to flourish, whether religious based or not.  As an American you can observe or not.  But, as an American you cannot belittle or undermine another person’s beliefs.  There’s your explanation.  You can observe your own rituals, but your right to do so ends where it belittles someone else’s belief system or seeks to undermine or destroy their observances.  Odd that for a philosophy as tolerant and peaceful as Hinduism and which has for centuries coexisted peacefully with other religions, “Deal” has little tolerance for anyone else’s beliefs and resorts to intolerance and incitement (“I go take them down and leave them in the street”) rather than acceptance and coexistence.  In none of his cases cited has anyone come to his house and put up decorations or forced him to observe Christmas, Ramadan, Kwanzaa, or Hanukkah or any other festival.  These observances have every right to be there.  Others can post their philosophy as well.  You do not and cannot disparage another person’s beliefs, whether you consider it art or not.  That is why the crucified skeleton Santa is on the ground.


    “bluedog” just reiterates the disconnect with reality these people suffer from. 

    It absolutely is an issue of free speech and it absolutely is vandalism, which is criminal. 

    Let us turn it around.  I’m a Hindu and I think all this Christmas nonsense being shoved in my face is offensive.  I’m sick of this county bowing to the Christians and I want to see those Christmas decorations in town taken down.  So I go take them down and leave them in the street. 

    Is that criminal?  Is that vandalism? 

    You folks can’t pick and choose when you want free speech to apply or when a law should actually be enforced.  It is the apex of hypocrisy.  Like it or not, Loudoun has changing demographics.  It is not some sleepy, rural county full of white Christians who go to church every Sunday.  You now have educated people from all over who are different religions and subscribe to no religion.  Deal with it.  They all pay taxes and all have equal rights to speech.  No need to shove Christmas down their throat and tell them to shut up with their beliefs. 

    Again, I am looking for the devout Christian who can explain to me why Jesus would support their beliefs of limiting people’s speech and vandalizing someone else’s display. I’m having a hard time making that connection.


    This is some funny _hit.  Only in this hypocritic county could a circus like this go forward.  The commentary here reflects the ignorance, prejudice and intolorance that prevails in this place.  But it is great entertainment, keep it up folks, when I need a good laugh, I have my fellow citizens in LowDown County to thank for my amusement.


    This isn’t vandalism.  This isn’t freedom of speech.  This isn’t criminal.  It is the reaction of a community to an idiotic set of PC rules that even our county council can’t seem to wade through for fear of offending someone.  Face it folks, this is the holiday season.  This is a celebration of whatever holiday you wish to celebrate (Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, Ramadan) or your right not to celebrate anything at all, but it is not a season for the owner of a inflammatory, tasteless, and rude piece of so-called art to ruin any spirit of joy or happiness brought on by the season.  It is not anyone’s right to overtip the applecart and cause anger and bad feelings among his fellow residents.  It is also an incredibly poor showing of leadership by the county council as they kick the can further down the road, hoping the problem will just go away.  It won’t.  It was wrong for the county to try to appease everyone, it was wrong to section off the court house lawn for anti-holiday displays.  It is a true example of everything that is wrong with today’s society. Mr. Heflin remarked that his display marked “killing the peace, love, joy and kindness that is supposed to be prevalent during the holiday season” and yet, he has singularly done more to disrupt those feelings than any display on any courthouse lawn in America.  Nice going, neighbor.  Thanks for ruining the holiday season. No courthouse has to be free of religious based displays.  Even the Supreme Court has a frieze of Moses and the 10 Commandments displayed. It also has many other lawgivers.  It does not have any Santas on crosses.  Whether you celebrate the holidays, or as Scrooge, keep them in your own way, it is not your right to disrupt your community, or belittle your neighbors for their beliefs.  The Santa did just that and deserves to be torn down every time it is put up.  It is no different than an anti-Muslim or anti-Semitic display, which I’m sure the county would not tolerate.  Shame on Mr Heflin for causing the problem.  And shame on the council for being too PC to take a stand against incitement on the courthouse lawn.


    Don’t miss it folks! For the 14th year, Leesburg Church of the Nazarene will pull out all the stops for its immensely popular drive-through nativity, back from 5-8:30 p.m. Dec. 10 and 11. This is fantastic and all are welcome. ;-)


    There, there Thruthy, there there.


    Let the religious extremist right pray their way to euphoria and delirium.  Religious rationality and secular thought will prevail.  Hey right wingers, go read your Bible , it is the word of MEN not God.  As you read, enjoy your view in the mirror.  Perhaps then you will get the message.


    I’d like an awnser!
    #1- Whoever it may concern! How come there are many posts about this courthouse delema that do not reveal the persons full name? Scared to let everyone know who you are! Not Me!
    #2- Kenneth! If you don’t believe in any religion,  do you take advantage of the holiday sales that go on during this time!
    #3- Kenneth! If God did not start everything then what produced the big bang theory? Example! You were made by your parents, and your parents were made by your grand parents and your grand parents were made by your great grand parents! Where does all of this start from? Somewhere there has to be a beginning!
    #4- Does it take any intellegence( during the big bang theory) to start with a single cell micro organicism and end up with a complicated human body that we still don’t know everything about?
    #5- What started everything that we see, smell, touch, think and hear to be able to fuction in this world?
      My point is this! How many times has anyone tried to come up with a solution about how man has evolved! How many theories about this have been blown away! The fact is that nobody has the awnser! Somewhere down the line there has to be a starting point! In my faith ” God has always been and always will be”. That is not what you believe but just think about it!


    @Kenneth, You LOLz me & may you have an awesome weekend. ;-)


    @Mrs. McLuv May God bless you & yours my Sister. We ‘ll just keep praying & he’ll show us the way. ;-D

    —————————————————-

    Prayer? Do you really think that your deity can hear and respond to your thoughts through mental telepathy?


    @Mrs. McLuv May God bless you & yours my Sister. We ‘ll just keep praying & he’ll show us the way. ;-D


    Happy Holidays


    Generally, the more religious a person is, the more ignorant they are about world affairs (see GOP presidential candidates).

    Also, it seems religiosity is inversely correlated with education levels. For the most part, religious people are simply not as smart or as educated as non-religious people.

    Religious people have the mindset of children (or sheep), they worship their god because they’re scared of death and they want to be “rewarded” in an afterlife.

    Isn’t it odd that the bible makes no mention of science in it? It makes no mention of a sun-centered solar system, of stars being suns and galaxies…etc.


    @Identity Revealed - THANK YOU for bringing me back!  I just read it.  Merry Christmas to you and yours!!  God bless!!


    And if you don’t care what Kennith thinks, or what I think, why have you not turned the other cheek and ignored him or me? You seem to care a lot what others think about your chosen faith.


    Actually the first amendment protects political speech as well as satire. People in fact do have the right to criticize religion, politics, and the commercialization of the holiday. Maybe you should realize the right to practice religion also extends to the right to practice no religion in this nation and free speech is protected here.


    Fed up Dude - I’m just fine with MY God.  How can you say that I care about what others believe?  I could care less what you believe, and we ALL know what Kenneth believes!  I really don’t care.  I have friends of all different faiths, and I love them just the same.  The difference between them and you is that they have respect for others.  You don’t.  I have a right to love my faith, my religion and my holiday.  YOU do not have the right to hang an offensive symbol to insult me and my faith.  The funny thing, about big mouths like you and Ken, who hate everyone and want to bring everyone down with you, is that as soon as someone disagrees with YOU, you attack them and insult their beliefs!  Ironic.  Here’s a thought…... leave Christians alone.  We know what’s right.  You don’t.  We’ll be just fine in the end….. You?  Well, as a GOOD Christian, I’ll say a prayer for you that one day YOU and KEN wake up and realize that this world isn’t the end.  You’ll find that out sooner or later….. Again, good luck!


    Mrs. McLuv - You seem to be a poor Christian that needs to reread the parts about forgiveness. Why get so upset that people don’t beleive what you beleive. Trying to squash their free speech makes you akin to the Taliban. This is America we all get a say and our rights are all protected equally.


    Hey Kenneth, give it a rest already !  Geez !  We all are now painfully aware of how much you hate God.  Good luck with that when your number’s up.


    I just found a new copy of “Guideposts” in my mail! I can’t wait to read “True Stories of Hope & Inspiration”!! I love Guideposts because it is a magazine that offers a positive view of religion not just from one side, but all sides. I hope we can bring our community together on our “sideways” issues & show our God how blessed he his & give thanks. :)


    @Mrs McLuv, read NIV Psalm 37:1-11. Thank you for your thoughtful commentary. I read on the “Christian Post” that in Ellwood City, PA that the city is not taking down it’s Navitity that they have had for 50 years & they have rejected the “Winter Solstice” banner (same one we had) as they say it endorses atheism & “put down what others believed.” The mayor says, “There’s no reason to debate their issue because I feel they’re out of line.” The town also has a snowman,a Santa Claus, & a Christmas tree. Cliff Reynolds, senior pastor of Word Alive Church, says “the banner is contary to the belief system of most people in the city.” I love this town & wish my townsfolk would likewise take a stand.


    If the christian god had a sense of humor, he’d be laughing.

    Unfortunatly, the christian bible is oddly devoid of humor. Humor and irony are the enemies of religious dogma.

    If christians were sure of their (delusional) faith, they would laugh instead of being angry at an ad-hoc sculpture.

    Many christians thrive on the idea of persecution, even while comprising the vast majority of the population.

    It seem the fate of logical people is living with religiously deluded people, who attempt to dement their societies into a version of a their bronze-age scripture they refer to for guidance.


    Offensive and inflammatory speech is protected by the First Amendment.  The folks from the Westboro Baptist Church could show up on the lawn of the Loudoun County Courthouse tomorrow with their God hating signs and NOBODY could do anything about it. Matter of fact, law enforcement would have to ensure that they were protected from harm.  The same officer who did nothing to stop the woman from vandalizing the Santa display would have to stand watch and protect those like Westboro.  Get a life people!  The First Amendment protects EVERYBODY, not just Christian beliefs!


    LETS LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE!
      Some of us don’t believe in anything and some us believe in some kind of religion! It doesn’t matter what we believe in! All that matters is that all of us must use what we have inside of us to make this world a better place to live in!
      Most people go off the deep end with their beliefs because they want to be heard! If they would sit back, analyze the situation and then react with better tactics they would accomplish more in the long run!
      I have read all the comments on this page and I am amazed that there is too much, I can’t let that person get away with that comment because I am offended by it! GROW UP PEOPLE! Just because you are offended by what someone else says doesn’t mean you have to attack them with a response!
      The world has numerous kinds of different people with different beliefs! If all of us would just sit back and think more clearly about how we could solve most problems, and not have a KNEE JURK REACTION TO THAT SITUATION, most problems would be solved quicker and with better results!
      The world isn’t perfect no matter how you look at it! But with some good common sense attached to most problems, it definitly would get better! You may call me a dreamer but just sit back and think about what I wrote and see if it makes sense in your eyes!


    “Go to church.”  I find it funny that the only people who adamantly twist Bible verses to conclude that someone “must” attend church are the people who run the business known as a “church”.  Most are just rackets trying to separate people from their money.  Go read about the guy in Sterling with his “racing ministry”. 

    http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/undergod/2008/11/va_pastor_leading_cult_or_cult.html


    I think Laura Peters and the editorial board at the Loused Up Times should learn the English language. Vandalism is defined as “willful or malicious destruction or defacement of public or private property.” There was neither in this case, as nothing was destroyed or defaced. The skeleton was removed from the cross, put on the ground. Your bias is very evident and your willingness to promote reaction rather than report the news is telling.

    ———————————————

    So under that logic, if a person unscrewed a stop sign and gently placed it on the ground, that wouldn’t be vandalism?


    People should worship my deity, his name is Steve.

    He understands why people don’t worship him and he doesn’t demand people’s subservience.


    I think Laura Peters and the editorial board at the Loused Up Times should learn the English language. Vandalism is defined as “willful or malicious destruction or defacement of public or private property.” There was neither in this case, as nothing was destroyed or defaced. The skeleton was removed from the cross, put on the ground. Your bias is very evident and your willingness to promote reaction rather than report the news is telling.


    @ Mrs. Mcluv

    Go to church to worship your god?

    The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all of fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomanical, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. Those of us schooled from infancy in his ways can become desensitized to their horror.


    @Kenneth…..MY God is all loving and all forgiving!  Even towards you.  Good luck to you, Kenneth.  Do yourself a favor and go to church.  I mean that, seriously.  It’s never too late…... until it’s really too late!


    @ Mrs. McLuv

    Your god is not forgiving, he is genocidal.

    Your god is a vengeful megalomaniac who killed Job’s family and tortured him simply to win a bet with satan.

    Your god practiced human sacrifice by sending his own son to die in a violent manner on earth.

    Your god killed thousands upon thousands of children for the sins of the parents (great flood, sodom & gomorrah, egypt) etc.

    Mrs. McLuv, your god is an awful, disgusting character and he sure doesn’t sound forgiving in the bible.


    Fed up Dude, only God is all patient and all forgiving.  I don’t pretend to be, nor am I going to just let fools like Kenneth go on and on hurling insults and just sit back and say nothing.  Oh, and by the way, Kenneth, you and Fed up Dude should exchange emails and chat because you’re both nuts.  Merry Christmas, everyone!!


    get back to work slackers


    I think we should all get together on the Courthouse lawn (Christians v. Pre-Christians) and have a snow ball fight.


    The comments on this article are more hilarious than the entire debacle around Leesburg, once again, battling out their stupid lawn displays.  What a boring town you live in, if this is #1 on the news for you.

    Overall, I’d say the comments on this article remind me of a play called “God of Carnage” by Yasmina Reza.  A group of adults behaving like children.  Brilliant!


    I cannot believe it.  Patch has a letter to the editor from Ken Reid, calling for the removal of all religious displays from the courthouse.  What!  Ken Reid, not even on the board yet, and already proving to be a liar.


    HEY KIDS PLAY NICE
    MERRY CHIRSTMAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    TO ALL


    Christians are blessed with the knowledge that Christianity is the one “true” religion.

    The Christian god loves everyone, but if a person hasn’t accepted Jesus Christ as their savior, they are doomed to eternal torture in the afterlife.

    The Christian god is all-powerful and omnipotent, so he must have good reasons for allowing unimaginable suffering on our planet, including allowing young children to die painful death from cancer etc.

    While the Christian god practiced genocide many times (the great flood, Egypt, etc), he had good reasons for massacring entire societies.

    Also, this god sent his son to be tortured to death for the sins of humans, but he was also sending himself, since god and his son are the same being, which makes perfect sense.

    So let’s celebrate the birth of his son, by putting coniferous trees in houses in pre-Christian Germanic tradition.

    Let’s also celebrate the birth of Christ by telling children an obese old man from the north breaks into into their house and leaves presents.


    You know the hypocrisy on this thread is amazing. Mrs. McLuv you talk about him being hateful and write a hateful message to him.

    God I love ironic posts like this.


    Kenneth, sign off your computer and go find a hobby.  You are so full of hate and bitterness. You don’t, nor can you, hurt us.  We have our faith, you obviously don’t, but that’s your issue not ours.  You’re a sad, pathetic individual who needs to find God!!  BTW, Mary was not “unknowingly” impregnated.  Why don’t you read the bible first before attempting to quote from it?  You should go to church and learn a thing or two before posting your ignorant thoughs.  Oh, by the way, Merry Christmas!!


    @Erock - The tree is not a Christian tradition, yule was a pagan German thing. Christmas is a national day off for everyone and all religions or no religion; it was not ever made for Christians who go to church only. Don’t be silly.


    Hey idiots, what is the tree for,do you have one?It would be intberesting to see how you celebrate this holladay; bonus,day off work ,or are you alone eating Cheetos on a bean bag chair in your mom’s basemant. Will you tell your employeer you do not accept any of the above? Some of us work.


    ...who cares now? Lindsay Lohan’s playboy photo has been leaked.


    Christmas is for celebrating the birth of of a the son of the creator of the universe. His mother was unknowingly impregnated by this deity.

    In a Roman colony on the eastern mediterranean, god’s manifested himself as a peasant Jewish carpenter who chose to be violently tortured to death for our sins. A few people claimed he was resurrected, but he didn’t appear publicly. Unfortunately, the Romans have no records of this person. 

    Currently, many churches symbolically cannibalize him on sundays, and people often decorate conifer trees near the shortest day of the year to celebrate his birth.


    @Dan,

        I very much appreciate your comments. Probably the most sane of the thread. I hold a faith in Christ and like you see the value of both sides.

        We all would respect and value each so much more if those proclaiming constitutional rights would also put effort into learning the civil responsibility they were based on.

        As a Christian I would have no problem with Athiests putting up a Happy Solstice sign on their day. But to ridicule and malign other beliefs during their holiday is below
    unkind. It’s nothing less than anti-religious bullying.

      Petty comes to mind, when you can’t articulate your view solely on it’s own merits. Knocking my faith still doesn’t do anything to prove yours - whether that faith is atheism, etc. In fact it makes the your argument weaker.

        I’m sure Rick and company may think they are winning with all the attention, but I can’t tell you how this has re-energized so many people to step up and stand for their own views again.
     
        In my opinion, this whole event has much more to do with some internal struggle he has had had with himself and God (or lack of) than any patriotic campaign on behalf of unchurched America.

        Thanks Dan - you said it well.


    “What’s the frequency, Kenneth?” is your Benzedrine, uh-huh
    I was brain-dead, locked out, numb, not up to speed
    I thought I’d pegged you an idiot’s dream
    Tunnel vision from the outsider’s screen
    I never understood the frequency, uh-huh
    You wore our expectations like an armored suit, uh-huh

    I’d studied your cartoons, radio, music, TV, movies, magazines
    Richard said, “Withdrawal in disgust is not the same as apathy”
    A smile like the cartoon, tooth for a tooth
    You said that irony was the shackles of youth
    You wore a shirt of violent green, uh-huh
    I never understood the frequency, uh-huh

    “What’s the frequency, Kenneth?” is your Benzedrine, uh-huh
    Butterfly decal, rear-view mirror, dogging the scene
    You smile like the cartoon, tooth for a tooth
    You said that irony was the shackles of youth
    You wore a shirt of violent green, uh-huh
    I never understood the frequency, uh-huh

    You wore our expectations like an armored suit, uh-huh
    I couldn’t understand
    You said that irony was the shackles of youth, uh-huh
    I couldn’t understand
    You wore a shirt of violent green, uh-huh
    I couldn’t understand
    I never understood, don’t **** with me, uh-huh


    Drove by there on my way home yesterday and noticced there is NOTHING on the court house lawn except a Christmas tree. What happened to all the other goofy stuff that was supposed to be there?


    As an atheist in Leesburg, I really don’t want to be at odds with anyone.  I unlike a few on these comments have no problem with those that wish to believe.  I just want to live my life, on my own terms, within the law.  I don’t have anything against religion, when kept seperate from government. I know of at least a few folks where it has greatly enriched their lives (including my mother). 

    I’m not anti-religion and I believe the display was in poor taste. However, to suggest that 1st Amendment rights be denied because some people are offended is something that scares the hell out of me.  Where does this stop?  I can get offended at anything if I really want to, and if only non-offensive speech were protected, there’d be no free speech at all.

    While I certainly don’t support the message the person who put up the display was trying to convey, I would fight any attempt to deny his Constitutional rights.  As proud Americans, I don’t know how anyone could feel differently.  This story has three jerks, the person who put up the display, the person who ripped it down, and the deputy who failed to enforce the law and protect personal property. I’m personally more enraged by the deputy than anyone else in this story.


    God however is someone you have to have faith in because he does not manifest himself to man.
    ————————————————————-

    That’s simply an excuse the clergy uses (on gullible people) since there is no evidence of whatever deity their society is worshiping.

    This has been happening since the beginning of organized religion.


    Mr Heflin jr, apparently a Christian Youth of Middleburg had his display destroyed by an unidentified woman while a Loudoun Deputy apparently stood by and watched.

    In a related incident, Peggy Fox of Channel 9 news was allegedly approached by the same deputy after she apparently witnessed the act and was told that she and her crew were not allowed to film on the courthouse grounds.

    Mr Heflin’s display was a commentary on the commercialization of the Christmas season and a source of some controversy. Although details are sketchy as to the nature of this vandalism and the subsequent actions of the deputy, no arrests have been made, but the Sheriff’s Office and the LTM are investigating this matter and the subsequent verbal desist order given to Miss Fox.

    This is a piece best left to the police blotter section of the paper as the alleged actions of the Deputy and the Woman were/are CRIMES!

    What would make it news, not human interest, is if a Loudoun County Sheriff were actually prosecuted for Dereliction of Duty and Accessory to Vandalism if the evidence supported it. Aside from that, this is just insanity and I’m just as guilty for being blinded by the sensationalism (which I don’t believe was the intent of LTM or Miss Peters).


    Kenneth has typed on the internet there for he is someone out there making a point. God however is someone you have to have faith in because he does not manifest himself to man.


    Kenneth - I have not observed you, so therefore you must not exist.  I am a people and a scientist.


    Yeah Kenneth…no sense in exposing those kids of yours to anything that could save their souls for eternity.

    ———————————————————-

    1. It sounds like a demented deity that would allow people to be tortured for eternity for not believing in and worshiping it.

    2. Do you have any evidence of even one soul being eternally saved?

    3. Living forever with the angry, genocidal, vengeful god of the bible sounds simply awful. Worse than a celestial North Korea.


    A flying spaghetti monster is there? I must go and get a picture now :D

    May his noodly appendage bless you


    Yeah Kenneth…no sense in exposing those kids of yours to anything that could save their souls for eternity.


    Remember - if we ignore this it will go away.  It’s only fun to these people if it generates a response.


    Why should me or my kids be constantly exposed to an infantile, bronze-age, middle-eastern superstition/religion?

    Worship all you want at home, at church etc, just don’t expose me to this garbage, in the public square or in government. Is freedom from idiotic religions too much to ask?

    Personally, I’m simply angry at all the wasted sunday mornings of my youth spent in church when I could’ve been sleeping or watching cartoons.


    “I am observable, to other people and to scientists.”

    Well, Kenneth, you said it, not me.  And what an observation it is.  LOL!

    By the way, are scientists “people”, too?  Because you said, “to other people and to scientists”.  You should have said, “to scientists and other people.”


    Now remember, the incoming board of supervisor members are all REPUBLICAN.  Not a single democrate. Nine members, nine republicans.  Sooooooooooo, when a decision in made early next year, remember everyone.  THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS IS ALL REPUBLICAN!


    Wow, Kenneth hates Chrsitians and Jews. What’s wrong Kenneth? Did you get bullied as a kid? Mama didn’t love you enough? Merry Chrsitmas Kenneth!!! Cheer up Kenneth,


    I am observable, to other people and to scientists.

    Imaginary deities are not.

    Nevertheless, religious people tend to be less educated and less intelligent than agnostics.


    “No one has ever properly explained why religious people should be tolerated”

    And here we see that “Kenneth” has articulated why he believes religious people should really not be allowed to live.  After all, if they should not be tolerated, he believes we get rid of them.

    I did not misunderstand Kenneth.


    Kenneth,

    What empirical evidence do we have that you exist?  How do we know that the bits that comprise your comments are not some bizarre electro-mechnical fluke in the Al Gore Internet machine?


    No one has ever properly explained why religious people should be tolerated:

    1. They are more gullible than agnostics and have lower IQs.
    2. Religious people have lower income than agnostics.
    3. Agnostics make up the vast majority of scientists.
    4. Religiosity tends to be correlated with red states.
    5. Religious people make up an increasing proportion of people in Israel, a disgusting nation.

    Religious people should never be proud they have “faith”, ever.


    @ Feedupdude…...I don’t think the “In God we trust”  will go away.  We still have relegion in politics.


    Christians (or any religious people) are gullible morons for believing in such garbage.

    Christians: I’m special and god loves me (though there isn’t a single shred of evidence). He loves everyone though he allows children to die painful deaths from cancer.

    Also, never mourn for the death of a religious person, since they will live forever in heaven.


    I see lots of Buffet Christians who in their desire to appear devout attack a well thought out display showing What YOU have done to this holy day!

    FTA: “to depict society’s materialistic obsessions and addictions and how it is killing the peace, love, joy and kindness that is supposed to be prevalent during the holiday season”

    If you many to be offended look into thyself!  the artist understands more about what this holy day is about then any of you self righteous Pew sitters!

    But since critical thought is no longer the realm of the self proclaimed devout hurry down to the Mall Jesus wants you to buy an XBox 360 or a lovely velvet painting of him to celebrate his birth!


    @Over It - Then the christian will be mad there is no nativity :D


    Common sense dictates that you will never be able to please everyone, there will always be someone or some group offended by anything that is chosen to be erected.  Leave the Courthouse lawn undecorated and all the controversy is over.  It’s sad but it’s just the way it is.


    In God we Trust is another McCarthy add on that will go away in the coming decades.


    Those freak Atheists can spend money can’t they?

    “IN GOD WE TRUST”  right on our dollar bill where it belongs!

    MERRY FRIGGIN CHRISTMAS AND GOD BLESS ALL YOU ATHEIST FREAKS!


    Glad to see our board of supervisors lacks the strength or integrity to confront this issue.
    Pass it to next year and kick the can down the road again.
    Weak Cowards


    Aww…. be nice or you’ll be put on the “naughty list”, Bookie!  Merry Christmas!


    What are the Vegas Odds on this article getting 500 posts?  Will you fools move on to the next topic?


    @Fed up Dude….. No.  God is far from weak.  He could handle all of this on his own.  No problem.  Us, weak Christians, fight these battles because it’s the least that we can do.  You know, there’s an old saying for those who don’t believe…..  “If in the end, I find out that “I’m wrong,” then all I’ve done was live a good life following the rules to harm no one.  If in the end, you find out that “you’re wrong” and there is a God…... well, you know the rest…..


    Is God so weak that people need to attack what they think might be criticism? Some people are really poor Christians.


    My Jesus, I need You now
    May Your grace look my way
    To hear You sing over me
    Make Your desires and mine the same

    Bless me indeed
    Open wide my horizons to share Your name
    Bless me indeed
    Let Your hand keep me from harm and pain
    Bless me, Bless me

    Lord I cling to Your heart
    Your love is what I need
    All great things come from You
    May Your greatness fall on me

    Bless me indeed
    Open wide my horizons to share Your name
    Bless me indeed
    Let Your hand keep me from harm and pain
    Bless me, Bless me

    The Lord bless and keep you
    May His face shine upon you
    And be gracious and give you peace

    Bless me indeed
    Open wide my horizons to share Your name
    Bless me indeed
    Let Your hand keep me from harm and pain
    Bless me
    Bless me
    Bless me
    Bless me
    Bless me
    Bless me
    Bless me…...


    Hasn’t anyone seen the movie “A nightmare before Christmas”?  Its Jack Skeleton. The structure behind him was to hold him up.  I think you all have really missed the point.


    Jeanne, if anything Jesus’ anger toward the money changers has more in common with this “art” commenting on commercialism than the woman who felt entitled to trash it. 

    In fact, I think the story shows us Jesus would see a lot more to be angry about on the “Church Inc.” (which is nearly all of them today) side of the equation.  Something tells me that defending Santa wouldn’t equate to defending Chrisitianity to Jesus.


    If you don’t want others to criticize your religion, the answer is simple: don’t display it on the public grounds of a courthouse.

    “Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself


    “The cross symbolizes MY religion.  No other religious group uses Santa as a symbol for anything.  We use the image of “Santa” to explain the real life story of St. Nicholas, who did exist.  I didn’t see him hanging on a Minorah or a Kwanzaa prayer mat.  It was a cross.  An attack on Christianity.  Is this simple enough for you to follow?  Those who have no faith are just full of hatred and anger.  They want nothing more than for others to be as miserable as them.”—————Mrs.Mcluv thank you for summing this situation up so eloquently. You are 100% correct. This whole thing is an act of bigotry, hate, intolerance and disdain for the Christian religion and traditional American values cloaked in a 1st ammendment arguement. The miserable leftist in this county want to deny us (the majority of citizens) our right to free speach and our right to free religion. We are letting a few ignorant souls take away our freedoms one at a time. This needs to stop. It needs to stop now.


    “Today is the Feast of St. Nicholas, who died on December 6, AD 343. Saint Nicholas is well-known by his Dutch moniker, “Santa Claus”. Don’t be fooled by the crass, commercialized image. Saint Nicholas was a stone-cold butt-kicker for Christ and His Church.”

    More on this at: http://barnhardt.biz/ (“Santa Claus: Bishop and Pugilist for Christ”)


    The displays are all removed—huzzah!  An inability of people to share and tolerate each in kind has resulted in a just action.  I am surprised you children don’t believe in me anymore.


    Nice try Red Wolf—it’s tough.  I wonder where the heart in all of us has gone.  We seem to have exhausted the Constitutional facts, the political nuance escapes many.  A desperate and ignorant emotion threatens and divides.


    “Did Jesus ever go around destroying property of the non-believers?”

    “Common Sense”

    Yes, in fact he did.  He drove the moneychangers out of the Temple during the Passover in Jerusalem.  It’s recorded in all four of the Gospels:  Mark 11:15–19, 11:27–33; Matthew 21:12–17, 21:23–27; and Luke 19:45–48, 20:1–8; and John 2:13–16.  This is the only account of Jesus using physical force in any of the Gospels.  He made a whip from some cords, and “he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen, and poured out the changers’ money and overturned the tables.”


    @Red Wolf - The cross symbolizes MY religion.  No other religious group uses Santa as a symbol for anything.  We use the image of “Santa” to explain the real life story of St. Nicholas, who did exist.  I didn’t see him hanging on a Minorah or a Kwanzaa prayer mat.  It was a cross.  An attack on Christianity.  Is this simple enough for you to follow?  Those who have no faith are just full of hatred and anger.  They want nothing more than for others to be as miserable as them.  hmm…..  Good luck to you!


    America’s image, and associated tradition, of Santa was invented by Coca-Cola and Clement Clarke Moore.  Coca-Cola is a corporation.  Clement was a poet.  I agree that it is unfortunate that our children have to suffer our adult debate.  But please put things into perspective.  Our present state of political divide has turned us all into zeolites of all sorts.

    I will admit, I have posted many comments here under various pseudonyms in high HOPES that people would contemplate the meaning of their words regarding this Holiday Season.  It is not an exclusive holiday.  As an enlightened Christian, I hope everyone’s Holiday is inclusive, tolerant and meaningful.  As for me, at age fifty-something, the TRUE idea of Santa has never died and I share it with all of you.  So, to my dear Agnostic, Atheist, Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Muslims, Jewish and Wicken friends, forgive the hypocrisy in each of us and for a few weeks I celebrate the season in your good company in this great Country. Happy Holidays!


    @ Diggug mud: $5 bucks?  What about the poor people who can’t afford it, or shouldn’t?  Why don’t we just follow court ruilings: no nativity scene unless other secular and religous things are there, aka Christmas Trees, Santa, Jewish symbols, Kwanza, etc.  It can be done tastefully and not violate church/state.


    To those who think that only Christian displays should be allowed, they have special places for those. They are called “churches” and the great thing is, if you don’t like the churches already there, you can start your own. (Don’t think you’re allowed to start your own courthouse).

    Back in the North of Ireland in the bad old days, where Christans killed Christians for God and Ireland or Ulster, for safety reasons when asked if you were a catholic (christian) or a protestant (christian), you might tell them you were in fact a Muslim. Which was ok, until someone asked you if you were a Catholic Muslim or a Protestant Muslim. 

    Hence, in Leesburg, a Christian destroying a display put up by a Christian and why in the Life of Brian, the People’s Front of Judaea hated the Judaean People’s Front.

    Are you people really going to be waiting in Heaven for me? if so, I’ll tell the taxi driver to keep the meter running when he drops me off at the gates.


    Does anyone in this county have any common sense? Loudoun is so full of people who are so full of themselves I am ashamed to let anyone know I’m associated with this backward community. I can’t imagine a Middleburg resident who has the audacity to point out excessive consumerism. Purchasing a home in Middleburg is the ultimate excercise in excessive consumerism. Jeff Heflin Jr. is a hypocrite with bad taste and no common sense. Apparently he thinks so highly of himself and his cleaver ideas that he beleives it to be OK to meanly destroy the traditions of an entire community to feed his own ego. Merry Christmas a-hole.                                Why not have only one December display? Have people submit a photo and description of a potential display by October 1st. Then have the public choose the best one by placing a five dollar minimum check with their display choice noted on the comments line in a box at the courthouse. Each check must have a Loudoun County address imprinted on it. Only one check/vote per resident. The votes should then be tallied and the checks given to Toys for Tots or the Leesburg Food bank. Merry Christmas


    The Christian Taliban really is trying to spin this any way they can to make it seem like some sort of hate crime to present a display at Christmas that isn’t Santa or a nativity. 

    Oh no the children! - Explain to your children the world isn’t all white and Christian.  It shouldn’t ruin Santa for them.

    “War on Christmas”! - No it is not.  Christmas is still everywhere.  Does it matter either way?  Does it stop you from celebrating?  Did the government shut down your church? 

    Also, almost every so-called Christian commenter ignored the fact the skeleton Santa was PROTESTING COMMERCIALISM.  Not Christ, Christmas, or Christianity. 

    Did Jesus ever go around destroying property of the non-believers?  Do you really think Christ would find this appropriate?  The twisted version of reality these people see is what makes these folks to biggest threat to a free America.


    Congrats to the a-holes. All of the displays have been removed from th ecourthouse grounds. I hope all of you are satisfied with youselves and may you all of you uneducated Loudoun County snobs have a Merry Christmas.


    Freedom for Everyone: I stated in my post earlier, a Muslim is free to face Mecca and pray at any time, or they would be welcome to do a display on Ramadan and teach us more about Eid-el-Fitr.  People of the Jewish faith should be free to share with us about Hanukkah and place a Menorah on the grounds.  If they are respectable, we can have different beliefs and still coexist.  When Christmas comes around Christians should have the right to have their nativity and not be persecuted at the cross.  The atheist can have their time; the Muslims their; Jews their and Christians their!  It’s called mutual respect ~ somehow hanging Santa on the cross doesn’t come across that way.


    Perhaps the Atheists could do a candy filled skeleton Santa pinata and have children beat the…candy out of it. It’s violent, yet traditional; promotes consumerism—very American.


    H8, do you mean the Dutch TRADITION of Sinterklaas traveling from Catholic Spain to Amsterdam with Zwarte Piets to bring children treats on the 5th of December.  The practice of Christmas has many variation.  The later had the greatest influence on the American tradition of Santa.  So what if someone chose to express their opinion.  Let it go, move on and find your spirit.
    Merry Christmas!


    Some people here keep saying Santa isn’t Christian, etc.  Okay, how many other faiths use Santa Claus during their year of religious observance ?  Jewish ?  Muslim ? Hindu ? Canadian ? (that was a joke).  It is used alonside the celebration of Christmas, not any other faith.  Just because it’s not in the Bible, doesn’t mean it’s not part of a religious tradition !  So yes, it IS offensive to see Santa nailed to a cross (wrong event btw) and reduced to a skeleton.  Yes it may be that person’s 1st Amendment right, but it doesn’t mean that people aren’t going to be up in arms about it.  It shows a lack of respect for an entire group, even if it was trying to make a point.


    Mr. McLuv,  As a fellow Christian, you have a right to the myth of a, so called, “War On Christmas”.  However, this issue transcend Christmas.  And if you would include notions of your ideal Christmas along with a more egalitarian outlook it might not bother you and others so much. Everyone wouldn’t have to flaunt and agitate as you “Christ in Xmas” people do.  . Why don’t you share Christmas—what a thought.  Better yet move to Iran and try to practice Christianity.  That might change your perspective.  Merry Christmas!


    http://practicaldoubt.com/2011/12/04/why-christians-need-the-war-on-christmas/


    @ Mrs. Mcluv—#1- It is not an attack on Christmas.  And by Christmas I think you mean Christian Christmas (because you mention that this doesn’t happen to any other religion).  Santa is not Christian.  Santa, the Reindeer, and little elves are not mentioned in the bible (even though Unicorns are).  #2: It is Loudoun County, not town of Leesburg. 

    People, please get your facts straight.  The more I read here, the more I think that people don’t actually follow the events but just want to make up what is happening so that it can be fit into their own personal thoughts.


    The cop and the woman deserve medals.  I’m sick of the ‘War on Christmas’.  This doesn’t, wouldn’t nor should it happen to any other religion.  Why then does everyone, including the Town, allow the attack on Christians every year?  The Town of Leesburg should be ashamed of itself for allowing this hideous site to be displayed in the first place.


    My caveat is that the real dilemma is how to legislate tolerance?


    @ Stephen…..but the Nativity scene IS Christian, 100%.  So the scene by itself would in fact violate Church/State separation….unless other things are with it.  It is not to remove everything Christian, but just that Christianity is not the only thing represented or court rulings would be violated. 


    Now to any and everyone who may read this: This whole conflict is a joke, we have other real problems to figure out and our law makers and law enforcement officers are playing with our money and not solving real problems.  This whole thing has been handled poorly and will be handled poorly in the future unless we can look at this issue in a mature fashion.  Before we start pointing fingers are attacking people as Atheists, fundamentalists, liberals, conservatives, etc…. let us look at previous court rulings on this issue and look through those lenses.  I think this conflict can be easily solved if we all grow up.  Let’s do this quickly so that we can handle the real problems our county faces, i.e. transportation, social services, education, health care, jobs, etc.  This whole thing is just a distraction.


    Thank you Red Wolf!  There appear two separate arguments here.  One Constitutional the other is merely opinions of taste. Because we live in OUR democracy and not a theocracy there exist constitutional laws establishing the separation of church and state as well as free speech rights.  While I am a Christian as well, I am foremost an American. I am beholden to the higher ideals of how we ACTUALLY live in an ideal and just society.  How you contemplate your existence in personally up to you.  While I may find the display, as well as, many of the extremist religious comments here offensive, I am mindful of the higher authority here and now. Thank the forefathers that we are a nation of laws and not men.


    Thanks for stating the facts, Kevin.


    Sarah Crosen Wiley,

    So if Muslims want to celebrate one of their holidays by putting up a display in front of the courthouse, would you be offended or would you simply turn your head and go to work that day?


    The display was put up by a Christian youth, and dismantled by a Christian woman.  That says it all.  Don’t try blaming atheists or agnostics for any of this.


    Wouldn’t it be funny if it turned out that we are all actually just some silly alien’s ant farm project that he looks at each day? Rain is simply him watering us and the sun was simply a 100W bulb. I guess it would suck to die and just end up in his trash bin that he has to take out each Tuesday and Friday morning…


    @Red Wolf. I understand what you’re saying and yes, I did see that the courts had decided that a while back. My point was that this is not all about Santa or any other item that is placed out there. This is about using Santa and other things such as that to create a situation that would boil over and cause the ban to go back in place. The whole Santa thing is just the tool.

    Funny thing is that while Santa might be a non-religious item it IS a symbol of Christmas and so its fair game. They are, in many ways, one and the same now. For proof of that simply go back and look at the dialog that has taken place here WRT the Santa display. It has gone straight to religion.

    This whole issue is REALLY about ensuring that Christians are kept from displaying anything related to Christmas.


    Curious George,

    You’re talking about the age old burden of proof. Many on each side make their own claims and then says it’s on the other side to prove them wrong. People can make any sort of claim and do this.

    Of course, the Big Bang theory is backed by science and holds a lot more weight, in my opinion. Opponents will say it’s only a theory. Yeah, well, so are gravity, cell theory, germ theory, atomic theory, thermodynamics, and many more.


    @Jesus is Lord - God is the creator of the universe and no amount of science has yet to disprove that fact.
    ——————————————————————————
    Impossible to prove/disprove a negative. Show me some solid prove that he WAS the creator. Not some stupid “You just gotta believe crap.” and not some book that was written a gazillion years ago when people thought the world was flat and the sun revolved around the Earth. Real proof. You cannot. So its no more ludicrous to disbelieve then it is to believe it seems…


    And Stephen…..this whole court house display thing was already settled in a US court. 

    To be honest, and this is from a Christian, there are reasons to object over a Nativity scene on court property, since the Nativity scene IS explicitly Christian.  Santa, Christmas trees are not…..they are not mentioned in the bible.  It can be confusing to some that Christmas is BOTH religious and secular, but it is. 

    A Christmas tree does not violate separation of Church and State but the Christmas is not a religious Christmas symbol.  However having a Nativity can be.  I will be quoting TMQ from ESPN “In Lynch v. Donnelly (465 U.S. 668, (1984), the Court ruled that a nativity scene is fine in a public park so long that there were other secular “figures and decorations traditionally associated with Christmas,” including Santa, reindeer, a Christmas tree and lights. So not only is a Christmas tree not in violation of the Establishment clause—its presences helps make a nativity scene not violate the Establishment Clause (which it would alone, based on the Court’s 5-4 decision in Allegheny County v. ACLU, 492 U.S. 573, 1989) because the presence of the tree reminds the viewer that Christmas has meanings that are not related to religion.” “  http://espn.go.com/espn/page2/story/_/id/7320267/tmq-decodes-secrets-green-bay-packers-success (go ¾ of the way down under the heading of “Report from the Front of the War on Christmas”


    Sam Harris,

    So you’re justifying the illegal actions of this woman because you find this display offensive? A bit hypocritical, don’t ya think?

    By the way, would you be okay if someone who believes in Buddha, Thor or Zeuss puts up a display reflecting their religious beliefs? Or would those offend you as well? Just looking for a little consistency here.


    Two questions. One for each side.

    For the non-believer side. How did any of this come to be? If you believe in the “Big Bang” or whatever else then what created whatever it is that went BANG? Explain how ANY of this exists?

    For believers. Tell me what came before your God. How did he start? Where did he come from? Because I am assuming that there was a beginning, and I’m not talking about a beginning of Earth but rather you God’s beginning. Did he magically just appear one day?


    @Jesus4Ever-
    You sir are an ignoramus!

    The pilgrims came here to practice their brand of Christianity free of the state sponsored religions of European Nations.

    The Virginia Company came here to make money.

    Columbus came here for spices, found gold, and then Spain raped the hell out of the indigenous people and populations.

    This country was founded by Free Masons. To be a Mason, all you have to do is profess a belief in a greater power.

    IDIOT!!!!! You defile my flag and Country with your uninformed words.

    Norway is still a Lutheran State as were most of the Northern European states during the Colonial era. Britain was Anglican/Episcopalian. Ireland was/is Catholic. France, Spain, and Italy were Roman Catholic. Greece to Poland (Eastern Bloc) were/are Eastern Orthodox. To NOT practice those religions in those States was a crime during the colonial era.

    I sincerely hope that your comment was sarcastic, but in reading your previous posts, I doubt it was.


    sigh…..really Jesus4Ever?  Really?  Please, read a history book.  The country was not founded by Christians fleeing Atheists.  It was founded by #1-a for-profit company who settled in Jamestown, the Puritans who fled religious persecution b/c other Christians did not want the Puritan’s ideas.  Georgia was settled by Prisoners, Florida was settled by Catholics.  Heck, most of the English settlements were due to the Protestant/Catholic tensions.  Please, get your facts straight.  It is one thing to argue that the Skelton is an attack on Christianity (which it is not, Santa is a non-religious symbol.  The only thing religious is the cross, and even then it was not for just Jesus…it was used for criminals during the time of Jesus)….but it is another thing to re-write history.

    And yes, this country was founded by the followers of Jesus Christ…and the Indians, and other religions as well, such as the Deists. 

    Please do not re-write history.


    Let’s be real. The real reason behind anyone placing anything out on the lawn during this time of year is to CREATE this type of conflict. The court will then ban ALL displays because of all the idiotic behavior and then the Liberals will be sitting back laughing because that was the plan the whole time. To stop the displaying of Christmas related scenes but do it in a way that doesn’t make it appear like that is really the real objective.


    This country was founded by followers of Jesus Christ. Praise the Lord he sent his followers to this new land to escape the atheists in Europe. Lord help those in Sweden and France and across Europe and the World see that you are the Way, The Truth, and the Life.


    Last I checked this great Country was never founded as a theocracy.


    WONT SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE MOTHERF¥€£ING CHILDREN????!!!!111exclaimationpoint?

    Hahaha Loudoun County has been trolled. Well played, good sir.


    Rudolph said “Its sad that people’s dreams and aspirations include bronze-age, middle-eastern stories and morality.

    If people simply kept their religious beliefs private, there would be no culture war, no religious arguments, and no displays of any kind in public squares.

    Its simply sad (and arrogant) that people believe that an omniscient spirit is watching over then and recording everything they do.”
    —————————————————————————————- Rudolph, No displays of any kind would be sad. And believing you have the right to tell people what to believe or what not to believe is arrogant. I wasn’t around quite that long ago so I don’t really know if any of those bronze age stories are true, but I don’t think it’s my place (or yours) to dictate to others what to think or feel ...or believe. As far as “culture war” .... the real culture war in this country is being waged by a bunch of intolerant bigots who hate Christians and traditional American values. These arrogant socialist fools have declared war upon those in our society who still believe in American exceptionalism. The American spirit will win this battle.


    God rest ye Merry Skeleton
    Let nothing you dismay!


    My name is Robert McAree im from loudon county..and i think that this was going a little to far to prove one individuals point…


    Rudolpho, Maybe you really should try to be tolerant of others.  Everyone is an individual and has their own beliefs, dreams and aspirations. You are not the ruler of the world. We all don’t have to see things the same way as you. If I want to believe in the tooth fairy, that’s OK. I don’t need your approval. If my friends and neighbors want to believe in Jesus and build a Christmas display, that’s OK too. And yes you do then have right to build ridiculous displays to mock them. But, having the right to do so does not make it tasteful. It is simply intolerant bigotry…... hateful…..nasty ....bigotry.

    —————————————-

    Its sad that people’s dreams and aspirations include bronze-age, middle-eastern stories and morality.

    If people simply kept their religious beliefs private, there would be no culture war, no religious arguments, and no displays of any kind in public squares.

    Its simply sad (and arrogant) that people believe that an omniscient spirit is watching over then and recording everything they do.


    “allowing a small minority to dictate the majority!  December 25th is Christmas.”  You mean like when the righteous and pious Puritan government of Massachusetts legally prohibited Christmas because it was a sinful pagan holiday, and they prevented the majority public at large from celebrating and having a little fun?  Loudoun Country really needs to lighten up.


    Any of you self proclaimed “Christians” ever read about the “Gospel of Judas”... It’s kind of cool. So is Mary Magdalene’s gospel and all manner of early christian books that the Catholic Church tried to destroy early on. There has never, in Christianity’s history been a universal truth. Schism after schism… get back to basics and stop being so reactionary, you make it hard for me to look at someone and say “I believe in the teachings of Jesus” because as soon as I say that I’m instantly maligned as one of you.

    The Gospel of Judas portrays a scene in which Jesus comes to a weeping Judas before the betrayal and encourages Judas to sell Christ out, so that Christ may fulfill his purpose. In this Gospel as well, it is alluded that the people have the wrong view of God.

    Read outside of the James, People.

    Wasn’t Jesus’ overture to John the Baptist pretty much saying “I’m no better than you?”


    I’m APPALLED by the lack of artistry in the display.

    Why wasn’t Thanksgiving included?... couldn’t the artist had the skeleton holding a blunderbuss or wearing a pilgrims hat?

    The artist should be ashamed for not including pilgrims in the display.


    Rudolpho Said “I’m not afraid, I’m disgusted that I have to live on the same planet where the vast majority of people (excluding Western Europe) believe in the supernatural, superstition, and believe things without any scientific evidence.

    Religious believers have childish minds reminiscent of children believing in Santa.

    It sad the adults believe in such utter garbage and can’t accept the fact we’re insignificant.”
    —————————————————————————Rudolpho, Maybe you really should try to be tolerant of others.  Everyone is an individual and has their own beliefs, dreams and aspirations. You are not the ruler of the world. We all don’t have to see things the same way as you. If I want to believe in the tooth fairy, that’s OK. I don’t need your approval. If my friends and neighbors want to believe in Jesus and build a Christmas display, that’s OK too. And yes you do then have right to build ridiculous displays to mock them. But, having the right to do so does not make it tasteful. It is simply intolerant bigotry…... hateful…..nasty ....bigotry.


    science is a tool given to man by God. too bad so many sinners have decided to embrace God’s tool for man as a replacement for God. God is the creator of the universe and no amount of science has yet to disprove that fact. At best, science can roll back the clock to the big bang, but it cannot explain where all that energy came from or why the universe even exists. The only true answer is God. Just as it says clear as day in Genesis, for anybody willing to open their minds and accept the “truth”.


    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

    And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.


    I’m sick at what this County has become ~ allowing a small minority to dictate the majority!  December 25th is Christmas.  Christians celebrate the day Jesus was born.  We don’t deserve to be hung at the cross and neither does Santa for our beliefs.  If someone finds our nativity offensive, kindly turn your eyes in another direction and go to work that day.  You shouldn’t really be celebrating the day anyway. When I see other faiths (in good faith) celebrate their religion, I respectably allow them to do so and go about my day.  Merry Christmas!  May God Bless You All!


    @digdug md

    No one’s afraid of religion.  Most of those who are in favor of the open access to the courthouse lawn are those who are in favor of upholding the Constitution of the United States…

    There is no official religion of the US, so there should not be a limitation of the viewpoints presented on the grounds of government buildings.  If you can’t live the craziness that has invaded the Loudoun County Courthouse grounds,  then you should support the banning of all displayes.  To only allow those that “you” approve of or that fit “your” view of appropriateness for the season is an affront to the Constitution.

    Like it or not, this is free speech in action.


    @Sandi-
    Modern politics happened. The Moral Majority started to force feed the Country their doctrine from good ol’ Lynchburg, VA and in response, those not allied with the Moral Majority started to balk. If the MM (which identified their cause as furthering Christ’s message) is going to force feed those who wish to be free of it, those who wish to be free are going to lash out how ever they might be able to. It wasn’t a problem when I was a child, but it is now because of the lack of respect from the congregations and their inability to see how easily their over reactions make them appear to be of the same cloth as the MM.


    @Rudolpho, show me the scientific evidence for love. Or prove to me there is no soul. If you would take an honest look at your beliefs as much faith there there as any religion. 

    The only difference is your faith hopes God does not exist. But it’s still hope and not founded on absolute proof.

    Every week there is a wrench in the evolutionary gap that scientists have to wrestle into the
    “proven understanding” called science.

    Science is a great wealth of knowledge. It’s just not the entire knowledge. And that only leaves FAITH for the hidden portions…


    The Courts have nothing to do with the displays. The decisions regarding displays and their location on the courthouse lawn are made strictly by the Board of Supervisors. I personally feel we should go back to how it has been done in Leesburg for decades, a Christmas tree, the Christmas house, the sleigh and the manger. This was never a problem in the past, what the he** happened???


    I’m sooooo happy that this story has reached such a reliable news outlet such as Fox… Now there will be truly fair and balanced coverage of this topic… YAY… <-this is sarcasm, fyi


    digdug md | Report this comment

    Rudolpho…. Why are you so afraid of people of faith?

    ————————————————————

    I’m not afraid, I’m disgusted that I have to live on the same planet where the vast majority of people (excluding Western Europe) believe in the supernatural, superstition, and believe things without any scientific evidence.

    Religious believers have childish minds reminiscent of children believing in Santa.

    It sad the adults believe in such utter garbage and can’t accept the fact we’re insignificant.


    Baptism predates Christianity


    This story has reached foxnews.com!  These items on display are just symbols.  Get baptized in the Holy Spirit and that will be with you always and is the true meaning of Christmas.


    @mrkhall-
    Dude, that would require maintenance personnel to clear this rooms, clean this rooms, and cost us all some money. We don’t need another reason for Loudoun to hike the taxes… Kill the displays altogether or do away with permitting (the permitting process regulates speech and that is not supposed to happen. Censorship is wrong in all it’s forms and the only reason it exists is because people react the way they have here. These are teaching moments and moments for CIVIL discourse. ALL OR NOTHING!)


    Islam is a religion drawing it’s authority from Abraham and the most quoted prophet (to my understanding in discussions with former Muslim employers) is Jesus of Nazareth. The Koran is supposed to be the final and perfect testament of Allah (Jehovah, Yahweh). Within 30 years of the ASCENTION of the Prophet Mohammad, the stories were gathered from the tribes, and the Koran written. Anyone to alter those words through dictation was to have their tongue removed and any scribe to alter a letter was to have their hands removed and eyes poked out. I have to cite National Geographic, the History Channel, and my Mother who holds a Masters in Theology from the National Cathedral School, Washington, D.C.


    we are all children of Abraham - christians, jews and muslims. Of course, the only true messiah is the one who rose from the grave.


    Rudolpho…. Why are you so afraid of people of faith?


    Move the displays inside, to a place with individual rooms. One room for each display. Everyone chooses which ones they want to see. Everyone wins.


    @Mark Gunderman

    Do you have any evidence that affirm that Christ is present in the world today and that He will come again in power.

    I can’t wait to hear.


    “Judeo-Christian religions are pretty disgusting (and Islam is the worst)”

    “rudolfo”:  Islam isn’t a “Judeo-Christian” religion.
    ———————————————-

    I meant to say Abrahamic, thanks for pointing that out.


    This is not about Christmas or the 1st Ammendment. This is about a few pompus a-holes who want to ruin things for everyone else. Their only goal is to have the Nativity removed. So, they will use any underhanded tactic possible to reach that goal. They are intolerant,mean spirited bigots who can’t stand anyone who does not share thier veiwpoint.


    “Judeo-Christian religions are pretty disgusting (and Islam is the worst)”

    “rudolfo”:  Islam isn’t a “Judeo-Christian” religion.


    We are currently in the Season of Advent. Advent is the beginning of the Church Year for most churches in the Western tradition. It begins on the fourth Sunday before Christmas Day, which is the Sunday nearest November 30, and ends on Christmas Eve (Dec 24).

    The word Advent means “coming” or “arrival.” The focus of the entire season is the celebration of the birth of Jesus the Christ in his First Advent, and the anticipation of the return of Christ the King in his Second Advent. Thus, Advent is far more than simply marking a 2,000 year old event in history. It is celebrating a truth about God, the revelation of God in Christ whereby all of creation might be reconciled to God. That is a process in which we now participate and the consummation of which we anticipate. Scripture reading for Advent will reflect this emphasis on the Second Advent, including themes of accountability for faithfulness at His coming, judgment on sin, and the hope of eternal life.

    Advent also symbolizes the spiritual journey of individuals and a congregation, as they affirm that Christ has come, that He is present in the world today and that He will come again in power. We are living “between the times” and are called to be faithful stewards of what is entrusted to us as God’s people. We are a people commissioned to “love the Lord your God with all your heart” and to “love your neighbor.


    How ‘bout this? They enclose the displays somehow, put up a curtain or something, so that viewers have to “opt-in” to view it. This way parents that want to teach their children a single view of the world can allow their kids to peer behind just one of the curtains, and those that want to expose their children to multiple views can do so?

    —————————————————————

    That’s a good idea! Judeo-Christian religions are pretty disgusting (and Islam is the worst), and I don’t want my kids being exposed to them.

    Perhaps, people can drop a quarter in a machine and a curtain opens for a moment, like an old-timey peep-show?


    How ‘bout this? They enclose the displays somehow, put up a curtain or something, so that viewers have to “opt-in” to view it. This way parents that want to teach their children a single view of the world can allow their kids to peer behind just one of the curtains, and those that want to expose their children to multiple views can do so?


    @Linda

    Church of the Spaghetti Monster celebrates something called “Holiday” and it’s around this time of the year.

    Look it up! Its in The Book of Knowledge (www.wikipedia.org)


    Marcus, you’ve never heard of Saint Nicholas, who over time evolved into the figure we now call Santa Claus?

    He was an actual historic figure who is more faithfully memorialized in the European mode as Father Christmas, Sinter Klaus, etc.
    ———————————————-
    David W, you may wish to check your sources—the tree does have some pagan roots, so yes, some might view it as religious.

    Why is a tree okay, and other symbols not?

    Why is a skeleton of a beloved seasonal figure nailed to a cross consist of “art” (but a long way from “pi$$ Christ”, thank goodness), but rainbow paint is “hate speech”?

    Glad you knew in advance that this clever student would be making such a wonderful statement—and you thought it WASN’T anything near hate speech, even though a clothed human skeleton nailed to a torture-execution device from before the common era is more graphic than a spectrum of paint flowing under a door.

    No double standards there!  rotfl


    When all there was was a nativity on the courthouse lawn, it was something 1) traditional, 2) wholesome, and 3) embracing a positive message of the Christian faith.  I am a Christian, I don’t have a problem with anyone who wants to promote a positive message regarding THEIR OWN sincere beliefs.  When groups are just out to be ridiculous, or to denigrate others, that’s where I draw the line.  I don’t mind the “saints of Atheism” displays that have been up at various times over the past year.  Do the atheists have a tenet of their “faith” to promote at this time of year?  No? then neither they, nor anyone else who answers no should be putting up “holiday” displays at this time of year.  What “holy day” is the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster celebrating at this time of year, pray tell?


    Cool!!!

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/06/santa-skeleton-on-cross-v_n_1131320.html?ir=Crime

    Loudoun’s making national news now.  If we get enough of these displays up quickly, people will soon come from all over to see them.  Probably this is the whole point - bring more consumers to downtown Leesburg where they will spend more of their disposable income. Better they spend it here than elsewhere!

    Not a bad idea - wish I had thought of it!


    An irony is that there is an equal amount of evidence (nothing) for the existence of Jesus as the existence of Santa Claus.


    Andrew Jackson - You are unAmerican, you sound like the fools we are fighting against in the middle east.

    Digdug MD- Not everyone in what is called Middleburg is in the 8 block old town area where homes are twice as expensive. Most of the little rural houses on large lots are typical price in Middleburg; don’t make assumptions unless you want to look like an as… you get the point.


    As an LCHS junior, I don’t see how this display harmed anyone, will someone please explain to me how this is offensive?

    Its only a skeleton dressed as Santa on a cross. I’ve been to Roman Catholic churches where there are life-size deceptions of a mostly-naked Jesus on a cross, bleeding.

    The images I see at RC churches are much, much more terrifying.


    @Keep Christ in Christmas

    Do you find it offensive, or are you afraid of the over-consumerization of Christmas it depicts hits home a little too hard? Watch your kids tear open a gift, look at it, set it aside, then rip open the next in rapid fire succession. Homes with 2, 3, or 4 Christmas trees in them.

    @Kenneth

    “Cloak themselves in the first amendment” Are we not all cloaked in the 1st Amendment? Or are others not permitted? And if so, whom would you like excluded from being covered by the 1st Amendment?

    @Captainahags said “Amazing how quickly people are willing to disallow the free speech of others when such speech offends them.”

    Agree! I’m appalled at how people are picking and choosing how the amendments are applied to suit their needs. I don’t know how they sleep at night.

    @digdug md

    His choice to buy that house and do with his money as he pleases. But you don’t see over consumerism over Jewish, Hindu, or Muslim holidays such that the core meaning is a mere excuse. Like it or not, SkeleSanta did its job very well by pointing out how the meaning behind Christmas has been cheapened.

    @Andrew Jackson

    Because *that* is what Jesus wants to see when he returns. A symbol of the device used to kill him the first time. Reminds me of the Bill Hicks rant about the subject.


    digdug

    “Ideas would be accepted from anyone… including minorities…. “


    that is just racist.


    ninja_gaydad - Dude that is funny, this is no where near what the courts would call pornography and rule not protected. Another fool who thinks he is a lawyer.


    this isn’t free speech. This is pornography. Dont think for a second that as a society we don’t have restrictions on free speech for reasons of general decency.


    I see the charity fundraiser part.  I don’t know enough about the law to know if that would be legal for something on the courthouse lawn as opposed to private (e.g. church) property.

    While anyone could submit an entry, only those with $5 to spare and a checking account could vote.


    One thing to remember:  The courthouse grounds is controlled by the COUNTY OF LOUDOUN.  NOT THE TOWN OF LEESBURG.  The TOWN OF LEESBURG HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS.  It is all the fault of THE COUNTY OF LOUDOUN.  Remember that.  Direct all your comments to THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.  Get out your phone books, and call the right people.  THE COUNTY OF LOUDOUN BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.  Don’t waste your time calling THE TOWN OF LEESBURG.  The Town of Leesburg has nothing to do with this.  Call those that do:  THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS FOR LOUDOUN COUNTY.  I hope this public service helps.


    Leesburger…. it would be free to submit an idea. Ideas would be accepted from anyone… including minorities…. And it would be a legitimate charity fundraiser. With the winner being displayed for all to see.


    One high school student who had a pretty interesting and timely idea he wanted to express through a public art installation, and did everything he was supposed to do, is having a very educational experience. At least my hope is that he’s able to see it that way.

    ————-

    We’re trashing a high school student?


    “Why not have only one December display? Have people submit a photo and description of a potential display by October 1st. Then have the public choose the best one by placing a five dollar minimum check with their display choice noted on the comments line in a box at the courthouse. Each check must have a Loudoun County address imprinted on it. Only one check/vote per resident. The votes should then be tallied and the checks given to Toys for Tots or the Leesburg Food bank. Merry Christmas”

    Well… you’d be letting the majority suppress the voice of the minority.  You’re also only allowing those with $5 to spare and a checking account to vote.


    This is the best county on earth. God Bless the person who knocked down this monstrosity. If it gets knocked down again, I hope somebody smashes it in with a sledgehammer, leaving just the cross to shine over our halls of Justice.


    Does anyone in this county have any common sense? Loudoun is so full of people who are so full of themselves I am ashamed to let anyone know I’m associated with this backward community. I can’t imagine a Middleburg resident who has the audacity to point out excessive consumerism. Purchasing a home in Middleburg is the ultimate excercise in excessive consumerism. Jeff Heflin Jr. is a hypocrite with bad taste and no common sense. Apparently he thinks so highly of himself and his cleaver ideas that he beleives it to be OK to meanly destroy the traditions of an entire community to feed his own ego. Merry Christmas a-hole.


    Why not have only one December display? Have people submit a photo and description of a potential display by October 1st. Then have the public choose the best one by placing a five dollar minimum check with their display choice noted on the comments line in a box at the courthouse. Each check must have a Loudoun County address imprinted on it. Only one check/vote per resident. The votes should then be tallied and the checks given to Toys for Tots or the Leesburg Food bank. Merry Christmas


    “Keep Christ in Christmas”, you make me laugh and you are a moron. Have a safe and Merry Christmas.


    “Why not have only one December display? Have people submit a photo and description of a potential display by October 1st. Then have the public choose the best one by placing a five dollar minimum check with their display choice noted on the comments line in a box at the courthouse.”

    Because then the only display chosen would be christian, since I’d assume that a county in Virginia is majority christian?  Sorry, but we don’t live in an era where you can just vote away the rights of those in the minority anymore.  And for the record, this would be just as bad in a majority buddhist or muslim or anything county- government shouldn’t endorse ANY particular religion, whether or not the majority endorses it.  Endorsing religion is what churches are for, not governments.


    Tue, Dec 06 at 01:46 PM by Donna P. | Report this comment

    Hi “Keep Christ in Christmas”.  I am a proud Christian.  I’m not a hater like you so don’t question my faith.  I bet Jesus himself would laugh at this.  A sense of humor is needed here.  Again it is offensive our country is trillions in debt; get mad at that.

    ================================================
    Donna P, My initial comments were made without the knowledge that you are Christian.  However, the sincerity of your faith is in doubt since do not find anything repugnant about the cross being used in such a sacrilegious manner. 

    I can play this game as well.  Wait for it; here it comes.  My comments are free speech, and I suggest that you laugh off my questioning of your faith.


    Amazing how quickly people are willing to disallow the free speech of others when such speech offends them.  The first amendment does not contain a provision that limits speech just because someone’s feelings get hurt, or a “But think of the children” clause.  If you don’t like the display, don’t look at it.  Simple as that.


    Why not have only one December display? Have people submit a photo and description of a potential display by October 1st. Then have the public choose the best one by placing a five dollar minimum check with their display choice noted on the comments line in a box at the courthouse. Each check must have a Loudoun County address imprinted on it. Only one check/vote per resident. The votes should then be tallied and the checks given to Toys for Tots or the Leesburg Food bank. Merry Christmas.


    Who is the bigger hater the guy who put this up or the jerk who tore it down. Ahhhh taste the hypocrisy!


    It we look at the crucified Santa on a cross display, if it’s intention is to point out the commercialism of Christmas, it was an incredibly poor effort and way missed the mark.  It takes SO much explaining and mental contortions, and it still doesn’t really get that message across.

    If the point was to point out the commercialism of Christmas, why not put up a conical Christmas tree shape that is covered with dollar bills?  What about putting a baby Jesus resting in a crib, but instead of resting on straw resting on dollar bills.  And on and on.

    If the goal was truly to point out the commercialization of Christmas, the person putting up that display is incompetent.

    If the goal was to be offensive and try to rationalize it as something else, well…


    @ David W.  What’s wrong David, Don’t you and Jonathan like Christmas out there in Lovettesville? Merry Christmas!


    Hi “Keep Christ in Christmas”.  I am a proud Christian.  I’m not a hater like you so don’t question my faith.  I bet Jesus himself would laugh at this.  A sense of humor is needed here.  Again it is offensive our country is trillions in debt; get mad at that.


    It’s unfortunate that the message the young man was trying to convey with his display is being missed. Part of what makes this situation so disheartening is that so many people assume without evidence that this particular display was intended to offend Christians. As a Christian who actually knew beforehand what the intended message was, I think there’s a valuable discussion to be had about the consumerism that has come to signify Christmas. Didn’t we just witness a man being trampled to death in the course of a “Black Friday” sale? What good does it do his family, or the people who were pepper-sprayed by another shopper in another incident, if the Walmart personnel are required to say “Merry Christmas” instead of “Happy Holidays”?

    One high school student who had a pretty interesting and timely idea he wanted to express through a public art installation, and did everything he was supposed to do, is having a very educational experience. At least my hope is that he’s able to see it that way.


    Ring Ring

    Look, Daddy. Teacher says, every time a bell rings an angel gets his wings.

    Boy, I wish we still had those teachers.
    Tue, Dec 06 at 01:17 PM by Follow the money

    ———————————————————————-

    I’m sure you could go to Sunday school for adults to hear moronic statements such as the one above.


    Ah, yet another message of intolerance and condemnation from the condescending and enlightened. And so cleverly rationalized as being a lesson on “society’s materialistic obsessions and addictions and how it is killing the peace, love, joy and kindness”.
    Sure. Nailing Santa to a cross depicts love & kindness soooo much more than a nativity or a simple celebration of giving unto others EVER could. Even though desecrating both of those things pretty much leaves nothing BUT materialism and meaninglessness.


    Does anyone in this county have any common sense? Loudoun is so full of people who are so full of themselves I am ashamed to let anyone know I’m associated with this backward community. I can’t imagine a Middleburg resident who has the audacity to point out excessive consumerism. Purchasing a home in Middleburg is the ultimate excercise in excessive consumerism. Jeff Heflin Jr. is a hypocrite with bad taste and no common sense. Apparently he thinks so highly of himself and his cleaver ideas that he beleives it to be OK to meanly destroy the traditions of an entire community to feed his own ego. Merry Christmas a-hole.


    It’s a sad commentary on our society when the atheists feel it is appropriate to mock something so dear to many people and yet cloak themselves in the First Amendment.  Please explain how this display exemplifies the tenets of humanism that preach justice.

    Merry Christmas!
    Tue, Dec 06 at 01:10 PM by The Red Wolf

    ——————————————————-

    Perhaps agnostics are simply pointing out your irrational beliefs based on bronze-age, middle-eastern scripture have no place in modern society.

    Belief (without a single shred of evidence) should be mocked.

    Perhaps part of humanism is living life without idiotic superstitions, and pointing out flaws in the misheld beliefs of others.


    Ring Ring

    Look, Daddy. Teacher says, every time a bell rings an angel gets his wings.

    Boy, I wish we still had those teachers.


    What happened to letting God judge people?  If God (who I personally don’t believe in) is pissed at the guy who put up the Santa Skeleton, let God deal with him.  The rest of the flock is supposed to be good little sheep and do good deeds and live a virtuous life so they’ll be judged well at the end.

    At this point, it seems the dude who crucified Santa is probably ahead in the points race with God.  After all, Santa has nothing to do with Christmas.

    Now all you Christians, get off your computers and get to Wal-Mart.  Black Friday was just the start,  you’ve got to make sure those millionaires you protect through your misguided support of pious Republicans get their bonuses this year!


    Donna P:  As a Christian, I find this display extremely offensive.  Aside from my religious beliefs, I also find this display offensive as a parent. 

    It’s a sad commentary on our society when the atheists feel it is appropriate to mock something so dear to many people and yet cloak themselves in the First Amendment.  Please explain how this display exemplifies the tenets of humanism that preach justice.

    Merry Christmas!


    If Santa was not on the cross, but something else (such as an Electric Chair, firing squad, etc) would it be anti-Christian?  The only Christian aspect is the cross itself.  Santa is the symbol of the secular Christmas, and the skeleton…is just odd.  The display was supposed to offend people, but not be offensive towards Christianity but towards the commercialization of Christmas.  Not everything is an attack of Christianity.  I find it more offensive that the cops would care more about the media than the vandal.  THAT should be another story altogether.  Then again, the Cops in LoCo get a free pass by allowing the vandal to vandalize, not to mention (in an unreleated event) the recent episode of having a drug raid in which the homeowners (innocent by the way)were handcuffed to the handrail and held up by gunpoint.  I guess we care more about Santa being on the cross than we do about actual justice.


    Secularists and leftists are quick to equate the behavior of Christians to Muslim fundamentalists like the Taliban.
    A woman takes down (and doesn’t damage) a display clearly intended to offend Christians and suddenly all Loudoun Christians are the Taliban!?!

    The Taliban would have dragged Mr. Heflin & family out of their house, made him watch while they raped his wife and children, dragged him behind their car back up to the Leesburg courthouse, and hung him naked from a tree.
    Thank your lucky stars (since you can’t thank God) that your neighbors are Christians and you live in a country founded on Judeo-Christian principles.  The alternatives are not pretty.

    Merry Christmas to all!


    Wow, this is getting serious.  C’mon people, it was a joke.  It’s not offensive.  A skeleton in a santa suit on a cross is not offensive.  Being trillions in debt is offensive.


    Kenneth - it is called faith for a reason.
    Tue, Dec 06 at 11:39 AM by True Meaning
    ——————————————————————

    “Faith is believing what you know ain’t so.”


    Vandalizing a display is unacceptable, but I really don’t get the point of the display to begin with.  There’s some kind of message here, but I can’t figure it out. 

    Is it that Santa has taken the place of Jesus on the cross?  Then why is he a skeleton?  Santa is always depicted as a happy, chubby, bearded guy, and Jesus is always intact. 

    Is it that the holiday is a farce?  Whether or not that is true might be historically valid, but culturally irrelevant, and holidays are typically cultural (except for things like Columbus Day or MLK Day).

    Is it some weird commentary on the myth of Santa, and how it needs to be dispelled?

    Was it that he wanted a race-neutral Jesus in a Santa outfit, but the only idea he could come up with was a skeleton?

    Was it just a lack of funds?  “I want to do an atheist display, but all I have is leftover Haloween decorations…”


    As an agnostic (and we all know that an agnostic is an atheist with commitment issues), I look at this display, and I see something that looks suspiciously like ‘hate speech’.  Only its far too silly to be taken seriously. 

    This is probably why some Christian tore down the skeleton while leaving up the cross. They are so used to dishing them out that they can recognize them easily.  “Forget turning the other cheek, someone hand me a crowbar.”  Meanwhile an agnostic like me is busy scratching his head trying to figure the damn thing out. 

    Oh well.  At least we’re turning a holiday defiantly planted at the coldest, darkest time of the year and dedicated to charity, giving, and friendship, into a celebration of all the beliefs that divide us.


    @Kenneth -  “Do anyone have a single shred of empirical evidence the christian god exists?”

    Believing is Seeing, Seeing isn’t Believing.

    But to satisfy your request, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” - Gen1:1

    You are God’s evidence. By the way, God isn’t a Christian God. He is God. King of all Kings.

    They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”
    -Revelation 17:14
    ————————————————

    1. Bronze-age Hebrew scripture is not empirical evidence.

    2. It is pure arrogance to think your god is the monarchical “king” of the universe. Who made him king?

    3. Revelation was written about 400 years after Jesus.

    4. Why would your god allow children to get cancer and suffer painful deaths?


    Derek Kravitz (“Washington Post,” December 2, 2009)
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/01/AR2009120102503.html

    Supervisors voted 7 to 1 to allow community groups “equal access” to the courthouse grounds. The supervisor who voted to keep the ban, James Burton (I-Blue Ridge), said he feared that extremist groups would turn the century-old courthouse in downtown Leesburg into a “public circus.”

    [snip]

    Ben Lawrence, 79, chairman of the grounds and facilities committee and a Leesburg resident, said he was baffled by the reversal. He said the ban was not instituted solely to push out religious displays but to protect the 19th-century redbrick courthouse from damage.

    “We really don’t understand,” Lawrence said Tuesday after the board voted. “We’ll have to see what happens, but we think this means anything goes, and, if that’s the case, my goodness gracious.”

    *****

    Atheists didn’t start this “war,” LoCo Christians did when they decided that a decision to protect the historic Courthouse and grounds was an attack on Christmas.


    To the individual who said that “Santa Claus” is an “imaginary” person, haven’t you ever heard of Saint Nicholas, who gave gifts in secret?

    A little history lesson, since it’s Christmas:

    Jesus Christ was given kingly gifts by magi from the East, most likely Chaldea (where Abraham was also originally from).  (Pliny mentions five places where magi traditionally came from, and only Chaldea is east of Palestine.)  The gifts they brought (gold, frankincense, and myrrh) were traditionally reserved for royalty.

    The “magi” were traditionally known as kingmakers.  The Bible does not say how many there were; there were probably several, i.e., more than three (beware of getting your theology from Christmas cards!).  They most likely traveled in a large caravan, with an armed cavalry for protection, given they were traveling through dangerous territory and carrying with them very expensive gifts.

    So these men caused an “uproar” in “all of Jerusalem” when they entered that city, because everyone would have known what they represented.  They went straight to the political and religious leaders of Israel to notify them that a King had been born.  So it’s understandable why their arrival caused such commotion.  This was big news!

    Furthermore, Herod was not a king from birth, having usurped his throne; he had already murdered his own mother and at least one of his brothers in order to secure his title.  So he naturally perceived this announcement by the magi that a king had been BORN as a threat to his throne.

    The gifts given to Jesus Christ came at exactly the right time in order to finance his parents’ flight into Egypt to escape Herod’s pronouncement to kill the male children two years of age and under.


    @Kenneth -  “Do anyone have a single shred of empirical evidence the christian god exists?”

    Believing is Seeing, Seeing isn’t Believing.

    But to satisfy your request, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” - Gen1:1

    You are God’s evidence. By the way, God isn’t a Christian God. He is God. King of all Kings.

    They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”
    -Revelation 17:14


    Kenneth - it is called faith for a reason.


    L.L.L. and a big
    MERRY CHRISTMAS back at you and your Family !!!!!!


    1. Why did the woman tear down the skeleton, aren’t Christians supposed to turn the other cheek?

    2. If your god is the lord and creator of the universe, don’t you think he can stand a little mocking and teasing? Or is he vengeful and demands to be worshiped?

    3. Would your god appreciate the incorporation of pagan symbols and consumerism?

    4. Do anyone have a single shred of empirical evidence the christian god exists?


    Funny I don’t see where this mocks Christians, it is clearly mocking consumerism.


    ...and the angel said unto them, Fear not, for behold, I bring unto you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you this day is born in the City of Bethlehem, a Savior, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; you shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes and lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel, a multitude of the heavenly host, praising God, and saying, ‘Glory to God in the highest, and on Earth peace, good will toward men’”. That’s what Christmas is all about….


    I like the tree decorating idea…how a couple of the local tree farms donate trees to 10 schools in Loudoun County (rotating schools each year) and they have the students at each school decorate the trees to place around the courthouse lawn.


    What a wonderful, irreverent display. The person to put it up is a genius.

    I love, love, love it!


    If we eliminate all the displays, the atheists get their way.  That is their endgoal: a public square without a nativity.  If they have to offend vast numbers of people and traumatize children, that that is what they will do.  Displays celebrating a religion should be allowed.  Those mocking and deriding another religion should not.  It is that simple.


    I notice Mr. Jeff Heflin doesn’t diaply this in Middleburg. They wouldn’t stand for it!! So he has to go elsewhere. Take it back to Middleburg!!!!!!


    “I say that nothing should be on the courthouse lawn with the exception of a tree with some nice lights and ornaments.  This has all gotten out of hand.”

    Finally. Would anyone seriously object to a tree? Even Rick Wingrove said last night that he and his family celebrate Christmas as the shared secular holiday it is, with a tree and gatherings of friends and family. The tree lighting is a way to mark this season as a community, without all the disagreements and rancor over religious beliefs and who offended who first. It’s a good and reasonable idea. And I think it would satisfy the constitution since the tree is not necessarily a religious symbol.


    MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Boy what a loser this guy must have felt like, putting up this display in public.  Clearly meant to offend a large segment of the population.  His hatred has succeeded and as a bonus, garnered the attention of the media - giving the entire County population, a public black eye.  What’s next on your list ?  A menorah made out of dollar bills ?  What’s in line for the Muslims ?  If you’re gonna oppress people, don’t single-out one group !


    I say that nothing should be on the courthouse lawn with the exception of a tree with some nice lights and ornaments.  This has all gotten out of hand.


    For the Christians out there - How about you go back to the true meaning of Christmas, celebrating the birth of Jesus.  Not everybody in Loudoun County, or the USA for that matter is a Christian.  I see a lot of comments on here applauding the dismatling of the Skeleton Santa. Although I don’t personally agree with the Santa skeleton nailed to the cross, you have to ask yourself why you are getting bent out of shape when you have led your children to believe in an imaginary man who breaks into your house to leave gifts?  The imaginary man who has NOTHING to do with the true meaning of Christmas.  I don’t recall the story of the birth of Jesus involving the arrival of Santa Claus with presents in tow.  Loudoun County should not allow any religious displays on the lawns of their facilities.  If you want a religious display - put it on your own lawn.  Loudoun County and their policy with these displays has invited the fringe to display their horrid messages and offend a wide variety of Loudon residents - CHRISTIAN, MUSLIM, HINDU, JEW, ECT. ECT. ECT.


    Yule tradition, friends, family, fun.

    What people want to display does not bother me one bit; it is the only one right way silly crap that bothers me. We have a large community of non believers and other religions in this area and we should be inclusive to all. We are also all Americans and should respect each others beliefs what ever they are but God and Government do not go together so with a government building all should be included or all excluded no exceptions; that is what the 1A and America is about.


    I’m going to organize a group that fills the lawn with Santa Skeletons performing various tasks, posed in a number of different ways.  I might even have fake reindeer’s prancing around.


    ok Feed up Dude - what is your true meaning of Christmas?


    True Meaning - Thanks for the laugh. I always love the war on Christmas stuff gives me a chuckle. The while boycott them if they say happy holidays has changed exactly nothing because not enough people actually care.


    shame on these people that put the skeleton Santa up - there are children out there that see this - stop worrying about your own agenda - yes Christmas is commercialized but there are few that still believe in the true meaning.  Why dash so many childrens childhood memories with this baloney.  I am glad its gone.  Its sad that Leesburg makes the news because of this what is wrong with people today.  I feel sorry for your children


    Don’t let this 1% bother you. They just want attention.

    Merry Christmas !

    Check out:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWrrvQ_3-40&feature=colike


    Hehe forward thinking; yeah maybe if the 1950s is forward.


    Why is it that no one had a problem with the nativiy display for the last 30 years but all of a sudden it’s a problem. It’s because this is an attempt to remove Christianity. I guess us forward thinking , progressive Christians will just havt to deal with you bullying , sloped brow atheists every year.


    Divine will?  That’s a pretty archaic way of looking at the world.  This is why the enlightened need to worry about the religious right.  Go back to your cave.


    Once again the shallow and materialistic a**es of Loudoun County Shine again.  Way to Go Losers!  Hope you change your ways soon.


    It makes me sad and I find it simply disgusting. Being a 40+ year native of Leesburg I remember how I loved seeing the nativity scene on the courthouse lawn as a child but my how times how changed. I long for the days of old Leesburg/Loudoun.  Thank you to the citizen who removed this horrible display of the skeleton in the Santa suit. These people should be ashamed of themselves but then again they have proven they have no shame.  Merry CHRISTMAS!!


    @One Nation Under God - I think I will stay and watch as we go back to the original pledge and chuckle at ignorant people like yourself throw a fit over it.


    Well this explains why we were only ranked number 4 as the best place to live….battles over the the county courthouse lawn.  Time to take the high ground and shut everyone down.  Sorry but there are folks out there on both sides who are taking this to extremes (kinda like Congress these day) and will not tolerate anyone else’s perspective even for a short time period.  Sad.  This country is turning into an all about “me” country and it’s going to destroy us.  Everyone could use a bit of tolerance right now—-may Santa or whoever bring you some.


    I wonder how many death threats the display’s owner received from those “God-fearing” x-tians.

    Once again, the Christian Taliban shows its true colors.

    Maybe you guys should pick up some crayons and write some more revisionist history to support intelligent design or America founded as a Christian Nation.

    LMFAO @ you guys getting bent out of shape over a skeleton in a santa suit! You lose!


    under God is in the pledge because it was God’s divine will to put it in there. if you don’t like it, then you must not like America. if you want a godless nation, move to Sweden.


    Under God is a McCarthy era add on to the pledge that was never needed and should go away. It is hypocrisy and historically irrelevant and comes from one of the most embarrassing era in American politics.


    Yes, listen to the sanctimonious dribble of so called Christians; their hypocrisy is palpable—I wonder if this is how the Taliban got started.
    Go practice your faith and show some common decency.


    I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under [God], indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.


    Time for Leesburg govt to step up and remove everything. Grow some balls. Be a leader. Here’s an idea, charge them 10K to display anything at the courthouse, you might as well make a buck if you’re going to allow stupidity.


    loudoun is God’s country. didn’t you see all the churches on your drive in? atheists go home.


    Wow there is a whole lot of crazy in this thread.

    I think the symbolism was great though the execution a bit lazy.

    The person who tore it down is unAmerican, we are a country founded on free speech even if it is offensive to your personal sensibilities.

    This story and the posts it has gotten just shows how many rednecks who think themselves good Christians and good Americans but are really not still live out here despite the educated wealthy people moving in the last 12 years.


    @Toby Gomez

    RE: Beer.

    Cool. Yeah maybe someday.


    All one has to do is look at the stories on the Leesburg Town Council Christmas Tree lighting ceremony to find out where the true spirit of Christmas is found in Leesburg.  Praise goes to Mayor Umstattd, and the Leesburg Town Council.  Good job.


    I am very glad to see Stevens Miller demonstrating why it is so good that he will be gone from politics.  Clearly, he is in league with those who want to ban christian expression at the court house.  Look at his comments.  Free Speech?  Nonsense.  He’s using all of this as an excuse to ban christian expression.  Period.  Thank goodness that Mayor Umstattd and the Leesburg Town Council put on such a great effort at the Chrstmas Tree lighting ceremony. Not that is the Christmas Spirit.


    Big it up for the cherry-picking bible readers, who just skip over the “turn the other cheek bit”. Anyway, my view is that there should be no displays of any kind on neutral ground. Since this open house policy was introduced, it seems to have caused only bitterness and resentment, which I doubt was the intention. No displays = no vandalism = no hatred.


    What fun.  The image for an athiest, a bag of bones.  Kind of like a dog, digging in the back yard.  For others, you have a family scene, with a loving father, mother, and child, or a Christmas Tree, pretty cool and green and smells great.  For the athiest, a BAG OF BONES.  And that is self asserted.  The athiests came up with that one on their own.  Interesting, isn’t.


    Remove the circus from the courthouse lawn - all of it.  There are so many beautiful celebrations of Christmas on private property throughout the County and Country.  It is only on this very small patch of public property where displays are causing a problem and dividing our community. Christmas will be just fine without a nativity at the Courthouse and atheists will not suffer if their displays are prohibited at the Courthouse.  Or we can just continue to do this Angry Free Speech Dance year after year after year.

    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.


    Atheist dislike nativity scenes as they are jealous of wise men.


    The atheists just want attention.


    I think ALL THIS ######## needs to go! Its making Leesburg look bad enough on the news.  If this is how you want to live move the FUQ back to where you came from, obviously your not from here.


    this is the type of nonsense we’ve allowed out of the woodwork when we take prayer out of the classroom. loudoun needs to return to its roots and defy man’s law and return the classrooms back to God’s law.


    “Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bead. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.


    The Christians in this country are a bigger threat to our freedom than any Muslim.  Look at them here, with thier perverted perception of “freedom”, and lack of respect for the Constitution.  Radical religious beliefs should be akin to treason, whether you believe in Jesus or Allah.


    I nearly got into an accident because the cars in front of mine were gawking.  It’s the same with lights and religious structures.  It’s a courthouse, for goodness sake.  Take ‘em all down and leave ‘em down


    @DaveDave, you make the false presumption Hitler bowed to anyone other than himself. I don’t think there any texts that demonstrated Adolf lived holy life, considering his neighbor above himself.

    Let me help make it simple for you. He thought HE WAS GOD.

    So really, since we are being “factual” here - let’s talk about the definition of atheism. It’s not about who you don’t believe is God, it’s about the fact you believe YOU are.

    All of the acting out has much more to do with those who feel threatened by a small symbol of faith - wether it be a cross on a wall, a manger or young child saying the pledge of allegiance.

    When you think you are deity you tend to get a bit jealous and competitive.

    I’d bet against you but then again it would not be gambling…


    These people are an embarrassment to the american way and loudoun county.


    Jesus was born in March not December, so I’m gonna keep on calling it ‘Chris-mus’ like I did even as a church-going child and simply enjoy the pretty lights, the excess of cookies, and the fantastic sales on materialistic crap that I really, really adore.

    Free Speech goes both ways, Chris-uns.  <—see what I did there.  Yup.


    NO COURTHOUSE DISPLAYS, PLEEEAAAASSEE!


    @LoudounLovesJesus, et al.

    Justice Souter wrote in 1993 for a majority opinion:
    “...the principle that government should not prefer one religion to another, or religion to irreligion.”
    source: http://supreme.justia.com/us/512/687/case.html

    So consider that when you wield our 9 to 1.

    “we still have our people running the show.”

    And the lowest approval rating of any U.S. Congress and President shows it! Thanks for confirming for everyone the true motives!


    @ Happy Happy Joy
    Hitler atheist?  How come every German soldier wore a belt with the inscription “GOTT MIT UNS” which means “god with us?”  That doesn’t sound like something atheists soldiers would wear.  Being on the side of religion, I suppose none of your arguments need to be factual or make any sense. Too much fox news perhaps?


    @Tony

        Those numbers don’t take into account your religion of secular extremists such as Hitler, Stallin, Gadhafi and other self worshipers.  Or do they not represent you? 

        Let’s be serious Tony, and at least understand the bible before pontificating. It is two testaments one of law and one of grace. Both in balance reflect God in HIs truest form. Either direction out of balance and it’s not what’s there.

        I personally want to thank the atheists though. This season of decision is making many in our community think about their faith and what they believe like never before. In a weird way Rick Wingrove may get pastor of the year since most churches in Loudoun won’t even call each other.

        If you are follower of Jesus and have been on the sidelines in helping our community and not being counted, now would a great time to stand. Without anger and in love as Jesus would have it.


    @loco resident-
    Let’s have a beer sometime…


    @hate is wrong

    A cross burning is used by an organization who’s intent is to remove the rights of other human beings (Life, Liberty, Pursuit of Happiness). It is a message to intimidate and goes against what the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and the court grounds that defend those documents, stand for (even though this country continued to sanction slavery for nearly a century after its founding). So no, not approved.

    The story states that this santa on a non-ignited cross was a message about the materialistic nature we have placed on the holiday above it’s religious significance.

    Not sure why the same outrage is not displayed against stores for perpetuating the santa and reindeer over the birth of Christ. South Park did a piece called “The Spirit of Christmas” that was well and to the point.

    I noticed the same emphasis is not placed on Hanukkah in these stores. Why is that? Why lump athiests in this when many of the Jewish people also silently stand by and watch this Christmas gluttony take over.


    @LoudounLovesJesus

    Born and raised catholic. But a firm believer in the Bill of Rights and Constitution of the United States. Free will, free thought.

    Sorry to burst your bubble. Let me know when I should report to the work camp for failure to comply.

    I do know lots of atheists and you know what? They don’t go around announcing it and trying to convert others. So it only *seems* like they are a minority.


    @LoCo Resident
    Since you failed to answer the question I will ask it again
    Would you support a cross burning at this non privately owned location


    @hate is wrong

    I don’t believe in the “speech” being expressed but I’m not a communist or a socialist. I believe in the bill of rights and the constitution. If they did it on someone elses property, then that’s a violation of that persons rights and completely wrong.

    Where do you draw the line and judge what’s right and wrong? Why are the seven dirty words wrong? They’re just words. Letters arranged in an order. By why is s*%t deemed bad but poop acceptable?

    1st Amendment has been around along time folks. These are not new arguments.


    LoCo Resident must be the president of the Virginia Atheist chapter. Thank God atheist are the minority in society and will remain that way. Just remember LoCo, when its time to vote, Christians out number you 9 to 1. Even though religion and the state are separate, we still have our people running the show.


    @Big Elf Small Peewee

    You’re right. Only christians really know how to nail people to crosses. “bwa ha…”

    *rolls eyes* Sheesh.

    I read these comments and learn what people in my community are really like. No wonder this has been the unfriendliest place to live.


    Would the same people who support this despicable display as free speech also support the despicable act of a cross burning as free speech?


    1st Amendment means freedom OF religion as well as freedom FROM religion. No official state religion, etc.

    Telling people where they can/can’t live because of religious beliefs are infringing on others 1st Amendment rights whether they are christian, muslim, hindu, agnostic, or atheists.

    Why are christians always the target? Because they are out there trying to covert everyone else (muslim, hindu, etc.). I’ve never had a hindu, muslim, or atheist try and convert me. But even amongst catholics, baptists, lutherans, etc. you’re all trying to convert each other and label the others not real christians. How many baptists have called catholicism the “religion of convenience”? Of course, the catholic priests and bishops are abusing little boys and their superiors try to cover it up. Whats NOT to poke at when christian religions give everyone so much material to work with?

    The angriest people I know are the overly religious. I only know of one person who is a devout catholic and is not snide, chatty, back stabbing, or filled with vile. He is the only genuinely nice human being who is devout.

    Too bad the rest of you can’t be more like him.

    Go on and tell me I need to move to another state because I don’t go to your church or believe the way you think I ought to believe. Maybe they should put people who don’t believe the way YOU do in camps. Hmm.

    Go ahead. Infringe on my 1st Amendment right. I dare you.


    Ugh…. I thought it was done… Please, Christian neighbors, look at the history of attacking non-believers from the time of Constantine forward. To act as the victim is disingenuous as Christians have destroyed more cultures than they allowed flourish. And still to this day do your ministries preach hate… more Americans have been killed by Christian Extremists than by Muslim Extremists (at least until Iraq II). IT IS THE WORD, THE MESSAGE… “I look forward to the day…” something about them meeting their maker. Would not Christ have encouraged you to pity their souls and pray for them? Also, the creator of this offense most definitely wasn’t identified as an Athiest, so back off those folks!


    @JustSaying…  yeah Rick, where are you with that Mohammed is a myth sign. Has Jeff finished the Skeleton on the prayer mat yet?

    Chicken. LIttle baby chicken.


    A psychiatrist would have a field-day with Heflin and the ones bent on making controversial, offensive displays for their jollies.  What happened when they were kids ?  I’d love to know what childhood trauma caused them to become so hateful.


    Ed, I appreciate the comments as a person of faith. But I do not believe it’s satirical fun to malign the beliefs of others.

    While I absolutely support your RIGHTS to do such things, I think it fails in the spirit of community and tolerance.

    Would it only be satirical for me to post a sign on the lawn about what I think of your fat wife, your baldness or your your kid with the long forehead? Of course not, you hold them dear. Anyone doing such things would be wrong - even if they have the RIGHT to do it.

    People read the whole constitutional amendment. It prohibits a favoring or any one religion. But when you display anti-faith messages in essence all you are doing is trying to make your own secular religion supreme. Too bad, we are protected too. The amendment goes to say the government shall not PROHIBIT the FREE EXPRESSION thereof.

    If all of these signs and ridiculous incarnations are your way of disproving the existence of God, it’s time to go back over the game plan. Everyone knows when you have a strong case you present it and when you don’t you chest pound and detract.

    I’m praying Rick and the others too.


    I’m a life long Loudouner. I pay higher taxes than most of you. My best friends Father did the roof on the clock tower at the courthouse. I also read, read dissenting opinions, and supporting documents.

    #1. The founding Father were Masons and Deists… There is a God, but we are ill-equipped to understand him

    #2. Freedom of Speech is a joke when you need a permit to say/print/produce what you like. Much as Freedom to Peaceably Assemble is a joke when you have to apply and buy permits, insurance, and bonds.

    #3. I love you Leesburg Mom, you are my friend, but it is our job to guide our children’s interpretation of life events to allow them to channel a negative to a positive outcome.

    #4. Thomas Jefferson wrote that your rights only extend as far as your neighbors nose. (He also authored what has come to be called “The Jeffersonian Bible” which stripped the Bible to Christ’s core teachings, removing the mysticism that was added as a way to convert pagans more easily. It was Jefferson’s belief that the mythology hides the message and the message of Christ is best paraphrased by Bill and Ted “Be Excellent to Each Other”)

    #5. Christ said turn the other cheek and some stuff about embracing the gentiles and other junk people forget because the only way to heaven is through Christ and Christians pretend to be good people cause they are scared that God is going to spank them, as opposed to being genuinely good and tolerant people.

    #6. It takes politicians with backbone to stand up the rights of the minority (color or creed). This is something fundamental to our Country, Majority Rule, Minority Rights.

    #7. New England was founded by the Puritans, Virginia was Founded by business men who were Anglican. Having spent much time among Anglicans and Episcopalians, I think most of them would laugh it off (cause they drink almost as much as my metalheads)

    #8. It wouldn’t be that offensive in Roman Catholic Latin America. Halloween, there are processions with crosses, skulls, and all manner of stuff with spooky iconography.

    #9. Bowing to a graven image is a mortal sin… It’s in the Old Testament. Christ on a cross is just that. You’re to bow to God, not the trinity which was stolen from Egypt for the purpose of easily converting that populace.

    #10. I much more pissed off that I can source a vinyl decal for my band at $0.25 for one hundred units and the County charges me $25 for a vinyl decal to prove that I paid an exorbitant tax rate to support the community-not county-roads in Sterling, Ashburn, and South Riding. Middleburg, P’ville, and Leesburg all manage their infrastructure with smaller populations, but I guess it’s ok to tax my mother out of her home-though she had a stroke in 98-but they can’t put a single shovel full of gravel on the shoulder of the road abutting my property, but they can threaten me if I don’t paint my house… More pissed off that children no longer have Civics classes, that the licensing process for a business is so costly, that even with a sound plan and idea it’s almost impossible for a broke individual to get operating… more pissed off that the Commonwealth looses tax dollars with early cut-off for alcohol (as compared to bordering MD/WV)... More pissed that I have been paying $7.5k for one acre, when a yuppie that came out in ‘96 bought 40 acres, put a barn on it, charges for boarding horses and pays 11k in tax. More pissed off that the family farmers that have been here since before the Revolution have been taxed off their land or have to work full time jobs because land use is a joke. More pissed off that Loudoun County has TOTAL control over land tax and will not honor easements as government takings when the state and fed recognize easements as such… The list goes on…

    #11. Get your priorities in line, we are so damned fascist compared to our European counterparts (yes, they are having growing pains, much as our Union had early on). I, for one, will stand up for neighbor’s rights if I don’t agree with them, because (in the end) if I do not, there will be no one left to stand up for my rights.

    Finally, Separation of Church and State didn’t make it into the Constitution, but there is a reason why the term “God” is used… “God” refers to a universal truth, not Yahweh, Jehovah, Christ, Allah, the Holy Ghost, Siddhartha, Zoraster, Zues, or Odin. We are free to choose and to teach our issue a way of tolerant and righteous living. The “Moral Majority” is anything but… Without secular society where would our AIDS rate be (see Africa), where would science be (see Da Vinci [not Dan Brown] or Galileo), and where would Mormons, Scientologists, or Jehovah’s Witnesses be? Do not they deserve the same rights and protections as an Anglican, Catholic, or Muslim? YES… You have the right to your beliefs and I have the right to be free of them and vice versa. The State/Commonwealth should not endorse any religion… All or nothing and judging by the reactions of all parties, NOTHING on the grounds of the County that my ashes will float over. I’d prefer complete openness, vulgar or not… dialogue and discourse over silence, but as Americans, we have lost the ability for civil discourse and as such children, we should be punished. Art exists to start a debate, it is not your decision what is art or not, but it provides an opportunity for dialogue. Stupid wedges taking your eyes of the consolidation of wealth over the past 30+ years. Shame on my neighbors for their attacks on each other… As individuals, you are all wonderful people, but as a mass, you are an unruly mob incapable of seeing the big picture. Strip our rights and sell it to the highest bidder and these wedge issues are were it starts.

    Stick up for your brothers and sisters, read Jefferson and Franklin’s letters. Understand who we are to be and aspire to be the righteous people our forefathers hoped we’d be.


    why don’t the atheist put up anti-muslim and anti-jewish symbols? why are christians always the target of the anti-religious nuts?


    I say, bring back the Crusades! 

    Start with radical Muslims who think we are all infidels.  So much so they murdered 3,000 innocents on 9/11.  I say let us show them Allah sooner than later.

    The Atheists have more rights to outlandish behavior speech than Christians do trying to promote the season of peace and love.  I smile when I think of their meeting with Jesus on their last day.

    All the while, the rest of us have to take this squarely between the eyes.  Where are these people the other 330 days of the year???  I say enough! 

    If the message is of hate or intolerance to counter a message of hope, peace and joy, then don’t allow it!!!  Is this not the same base message of the Nazis in the 1930s and 40s?  Hate and intolerance? 

    Am I missing something here….


    The yoking of politics and religion is like two kids teasing. It doesn’t stop until someone starts crying. 

    I want to correct some of Mr. Miller’s statements regarding me.  My display was 2 years ago, not one. The display was the “12 Days of XMAS” and the word XMAS was intentionally used so that no religious phrases would be included in a display intended to celebrate the anniversary of the Bill of Rights. The poem was a satire of the co-opting of religious holidays to create nationalistic civil religion.

    Whether my display was vulgar depends on the state of the reader’s mind. No “dirty” words were used but clever spelling and word play allowed those with dirty minds to giggle towards the gutter. Those with political party allegience saw a different satire among the phrases. Those intent on preserving free speech just for themselves were greatly offended, as intended. 

    No kids were harmed as they read only bland unoffensive words; one had to read alternative or slang meanings into the words to get offended.

    Satire is by nature provocative. Like the current satirical displays, my display was also vandalized. Some people just can’t stand a pluaralistic society where people are free to express a different opinion.


    T’Was the month before Christmas, When all through the county
      Not a cold heart was happy, and Jesus was the bounty

      Frustrated and they came, with tidings of hate
      The stage was all set, and not for meaningful debate

      On the lawn of the courthouse, all night their minds raged
      It was not possible to respect, with a heart oh so caged

      Little baby Jesus, just lying in a manger
      2000 years later, You still evoke love and anger

      Even more so, though they don’t hold You dear
      They can’t wait to act out in cowardice fear

      It goes without saying that everything we see
      Has happened because some, simply can’t even believe

      With self mined smarts, “God doesn’t exist!”
      But oh Rick it seems you fell for His trick

      On Christmas this year, just like all before
      one thing is certain - Jesus you can’t ignore.

      MERRY CHRISTMAS LEESBURG!

      Pray for Rick and the other grinches daily!


    Top 3 Comments:

    3. Silly atheists can’t even get their holidays straight. The cross is for Easter. But hey, they’re the bright ones. Just ask them.


    2. “You Atheists need to go move to Maryland. This is God’s country on this side of the river.”

    1. “Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.  Deal with it.”


    I fully support free speech, including this offensive display. I would also support and love to see others express their freedom of expression by attending the Leesburg Holiday & Christmas parade next Sat morning with big golf umbrellas positioned to shield children attending the parade from seeing this. (I would do so myself but have an obligation to escort my group of children in the parade.)


    Why do the American Atheists even exist? To organize around not believing in God is, in effect, a religious organization. The American Atheists should protest their own existence.


    It’s ironic that someone who clearly doesn’t believe in Christmas (he is a self-proclaimed atheist) is protesting the materialism in the holiday.  Why does he care? Christmas isn’t mandatory. No one is required to put up a tree or exchange presents. Perhaps this is exactly what he wanted - everyone to be arguing and have all displays banned? If so, he’s obviously succeeded.


    Jesus is The Way, The Truth, and the Life. Deal with it.


    Atheist?  The creator of the display said that it was against the commercialization of Christmas.  He did not say anything about bashing Christianity nor religion in general.  So, can we please stop bashing the creator as “Atheist” (like if it made him a not-human) but attack his design.


    I’m just amazed the cross held up with all that brutality going on…... bwa ha…Fail atheists.


    Nothing like a mental midget dressing up with big shoes though and prancing in his front yard!  Right elf?


    If anybody is arrested for knocking down the Atheist’s display, they won’t be convicted by a jury in this county.  God Bless America.


    You Atheists need to go move to Maryland. This is God’s country on this side of the river.


    How absolutely ridiculous! It’s one thing to promote your own idea/philosophy, but to put down or bash another’s faith in such a horrible display is wrong! Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’ve never seen a sign next to the nativity bashing athiests or other religions for their beliefs. It’s honestly embarrassing driving downtown seeing this circus on the front lawn. Sad to say, but I’d rather there be nothing at all than what is (or was in this case) there.


    “Why is he wearing a bucket?”

    “It is because we are blind to their tyranny.”

    “Then shouldn’t you be wearing the bucket?”


    What do I do now?  My whole life revolves around the Leesburg courthouse holiday displays and now someone knocked one over.  I guess next year I will have a chance to put up my own crazy display.  Should I put up a poor person drinking Raspberry Falls water?


    That must have really hurt your brain Ass’ole.


    These guys are dbags!  I mean freedom of speech is one thing, but ruining a kid’s Christmas?  What happened to these people?  Crucifying Santa?  What happened to you as kids?  Daddy make a late night pitstop in your bedroom and ruin Santa or something?  I don’t care how commercial Christmas has become, that’s not for you judge and levy on our kids.  I’d like the chance to meet you wack jobs personally.  I’ll be waiting by the Crucified Santa.  Oh, the one on the ground under my boots with a skeleton attached that I just got done stomping on! 

    Peace and Merry Christmas!


    @LeesburgMom&andEli;- Completely agree with you and I’m sorry that your son had to see the despicable holiday display. Rule and laws are enacted to mitigate a reasonable means of life. Unfortunately, a good percentage of the population is no longer reasonable or sane.

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