Great.  Brian sees himself as a new age Robin Hood.  GET REAL.  You keep making all the most absurd claims imaginable about yourself.  LIER.  Admit it, you live in River Creek!  Purge yourself of this falsehood game, come clean,and smell the fresh air.

Actually Leesburgmom I enjoy talking politics with my co-workers.  When the this topic came up I was amazed at the rate differential.  Not wanting to let my co-worker have the upper hand, I invested one hour to read over the Leesburg budget. 

Guess what its fairly clear cut.

Now when I see the topic come up, I give it a read. 

But lets cut out all the BS and get the the heart of it. 

Leesburgmom please explain why an in town rate should be different than an out of town rate for a service not subsidized by taxes. 

I’d love to be as successful as you suggest, but no.  I’m just the sort of person that says something when I see an injustice.

Actually here is a much more readable doc of 2011

http://www.leesburgva.org/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=5514

Bottom line its run as a separate business entity and should not be allowed to discriminate against a certain sect of its customer base when it has monopoly market.

Brian:  You miss the point.  You lie about living in Lovettsville.  You obviously are a River Creek gated community resident.  No one who lives in Lovettsville is going to care one wit about this topic.  So, Lier Brian.  Get off the stool, admit who you are, and let us all move one.

@Leesburgmom

http://www.leesburgva.gov/modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=6444

Read the leesburg budget.  Great source of information.  Of course if you think thats a lie.. we’ve got bigger problems.

@Rex - You are missing some facts.

1. They did not opted to get water from Leesburg.  Years and years ago Leesburg petitioned and won the right to service those areas under the idea that it could provide water cheaper than the county could. (And that is working out great.)  They don’t have the option to get water elsewhere.  Just like you don’t have an option where to get your gas or electric from.  Sure, they could move but is that the answer?  If you think you are being harmed, should you A.) avoid the problem, just let it continue and run away or B.) do everything in your power to correct the problem?  I choose B.  And why become town residents?  What benefit does that get them?  None.

2. Private utilities ( Dominion, Washington Gas, etc ) are regulated by the state and as such have to apply for rate increases with the Virginia State Corporation Commission.  ( http://www.scc.virginia.gov/pue/index.aspx )  The committee that approves the rates are elected and represent all of us, not just some of us.  So if you have an issue with Dominion or NOVAC or Washington Gas you DO HAVE a forum to bring your grievance.  This is one of the purposes of the SCC.  But the out-of-town folks have no recourse against Leesburg Water.  That’s been proven by the VA Supreme Count and stated in it’s dissenting opinion.  And that is the issue that needs to be resolved.

They aren’t being taxed by Leesburg.  They are paying for a service they opted to obtain from Leesburg.  That is like saying NOVEC taxes you every month for getting electricity.  What do I do if I don’t like NOVEC’s rates?  I have two options: 1) Go off the grid or 2) Move.  These out of town residents actually have three options: 1) Get water elsewhere.  2) Move. 3) Incorporate and become “in-town” residents.

Why is it only okay to force lower rates on a utility when it is “owned” by a local government?  If the water supply was provided by a private company, I am sure there would be less complaints and certainly no talk of “taxation without representation”.  Leesburg might as well be a private company to these residents.  You don’t live here, you don’t vote here, and you don’t pay taxes to Leesburg.  It should be no different than your relationship to Exxon, Dominion, NOVEC, or Washington Gas.

Brian:  You are such a liar.  You would never take the time to “educate” people, or write on here, otherwise.

Well said Jerseyboy.. well said.

I think part of the problem is many Leesburg residents think their taxes subsidizes the operation of the utility not just providing credit.    I had to prove to well educated, politically active, Leesburg resident, coworker that the utility’s operation and debt service was completely separate from the general fund.

If such an intelligent person has that misconception, just think what the general populous of Leesburg thinks. 

BTW I live in Lovettsvills so I’m outside this issue,  I just don’t like seeing people getting taxed without a voice.

Senator Herring and Delegate May are just political hacks just out to get votes on an issue that on the surface may sound so horrible to an outsider but the truth is in the details.

The County Supervisors have no business getting into the business of “approving” any Town of Leesburg actions that are within the legal authority of the Town.

“However in November the state Supreme Court ruled that under state law the increased water and sewer rates to out-of-town customers is fair.”

I wonder if Mark Herring will move again just to run for office when the Districts’ boundaries change????  My bet he wants to run for Governor someday.

@expatriot - I’ve heard that argument before about the town being on the hook for the bond and I understand it to a point.  But what the town is doing is taking extra money year after year for the possibility of not making the bond and then keeping the money when the bond is met and passing that saving onto the in-town folk by not raising their rates for 10 years, while gouging the out-of-town folks at first a 50% then a 100% surcharge.  And if they had not sued, there is no doubt it would be at 200% or more now, while the in-town rates would not have been raised a single penny.  Explain to me how that is fair?  There is no risk to the town.  If they are in danger of not making the bond, they just charge a larger surcharge to out-of-town to make up the difference.  Where is the risk to the in-town folks?  Please explain.

All the out-of-town folks want is to pay a fair rate, equal to what the in-town folks pay.  If there is a hidden water rates cost that the in-town folk pay (and we all know that town taxes are not used to support the utility), they would surely pay a surcharge to make it fair.  But the town has yet supplied any hard numbers that show, at the end of the day, that the rate out-of-town pays equates to what in-town pays.

You have to wonder if the posts on Tom Dunn highlight the earlier posts about him, that pointed out that Tom Dunn claimed he had paid himself a “loan” to his campaign for mayor in 2010, in the amount of $2,000.00, and then in a few days paid himself back, while he claimed he had to hold down three or four jobes - questioning where Tom Dunn could have come up with $2,000.00 to loan himself.  It may be, that someone among the out-of-towners could, possibly, be the “contributor” behind the ‘contribution to self’ by Tom Dunn.  Interesting.

What is lost in all this rhetoric is that the Town of Leesburg floats utility bond issues to pay for the infrastructure necessary to deliver water and sewer services to its customers, whether inside the town or out. Those bond issues are evaluated by bond rating agencies, and the ratings are based on the ability of the utility rates charged by the Town to service the debts incurred for infrastructure. The full faith and credit of the Town (that is, the income-producing value of all taxable assets) is NOT calculated into utility rates, yet, if the utility rates fail to produce sufficient income to service the utility bond debt, the Town must dip into its general fund assets to meet those obligations. That is why, several decades ago, the Town determined that it had to charge higher rates to utility customers who do not contribute to the general fund of the municipality. It isn’t a matter of gouging anybody. It is a matter of protecting the town residents who are on the hook for the debt, whether the utility fund income covers that debt or not. For it’s part, the board of supervisors has no say in the water and sewer rates charged county residents by the Loudoun County Sanitation Authority. Why on earth should it have a say in what the Town charges its customers for the same services?  Seems to me the supervisors have some other fish to fry, for example, the runaway costs of the county’s capital improvements (how about, for starters, a completely useless $13 million sheriff’s office substation in the tiny town of Round Hill?).

It’s interesting how so many people scream “Socialism” and “Wealth Redistribution” whenever letting the Bush tax cuts expire comes up, but here we have a group of people being pilloried BECAUSE they have a little more money than the average person.  It seems oxymoronic that on the one hand the rich need protected from the evil hand of the Federal Government when it comes to taxation, but when some of those same people decry the unfair water rates, they’re painted as evil and greedy.

You can’t have your cake and eat it too…

WOW where is T!  The b-i-tch he/she is.  No comments

Good point Iceman.  Tom Dunn has proven to be terrible on the Leesburg Town Council.  He stabbed the downtown businesses in the back with the sign ordinance and for supporting for so long the waste of money seven million dollar downtown improvement (destruction) project, and on the refusal by Tom Dunn to support Mayor Umstattd on the water/sewer rate issue.  I suspect that the out-of-towners think Tom Dunn is great.  I do not!

All Sally Kurtz has managed to do is pit neighbor against neighbor. This applies to far more than River Creek residents, who by the way are major supporters of your in town businesses. If the out of towners were allowed to vote, Tom Dunn would have benn your Mayor some time ago.

A real heartbreaker!  I guess Stew Curley and company are going to have to make do with brown grass in the summer or pay up.  Choice…isn’t it great!

County BOS needs to keep their noses out of this mess.  Its obvious they want the campaign dollars that come out of River Creek and the whole thing stinks. Any BOS who thinks this is a good idea to interfer between the Town and cater to a greedy golf club community needs to be voted OUT!

First, if you are wondering where the tea party is, they are more likely to be found at Walmart than a country club.  Second, I would rather pay high water bills than be incorporated into Leesburg.  There is nothing appealing about the town and after these years of fighting I have come to think of Leesburg as an enemy.  The fight now is just to keep from becoming incorporated so our home values don’t fall as far as Leesburg values.

Great.  Kudos to any other residents who sent emails or made phone calls.

If these communities want in-town rates, they can become part of the town and pay the rest of the taxes like we do.  It has been stated many times these communities were supposed to incorporate, but chose not to since they thought they were “getting a better deal” staying outside of the town.  Well now they find the “better deal” isn’t so great, and they think someone should do something about it.  You dug your own hole here people.

The information is straight from John Wells, our town manager, and Vice Mayor.  It is correct.  The bill is dead.  I am just not certain if Joe May has a House counterpart and whether that is alive.

Ken…I hope your information is correct.  This BOS has a budget to figure out—-they don’t need the added distraction.

So, get stuffed, Board of Supevisors.  HAHAHA

Just got the word that Herring’s bill died in Committee on a 6-6 tie vote.  Kevin Wright, our vice mayor, and Jeannette Irby, our town attorney, testified against the bill, as did the Virginia Municipal League.  There is no companion bill in the House, as far as I know, so the whole thing is dead.

While I don’t like paying a higher rate, I *really* don’t like the County Supervisors butting in where they don’t belong.  Just my opinion….from a teapartyer that does not go to a country club.

Just what the BOS needs….they can’t even keep up with what they have now.  I say the Town of Leesburg should be able to vote on the County’s water rates.  This isn’t going anywhere because other parts of the state are going to fight this.  If your water rate is too high, do what you do when your electric bill is too high—-adjust your usage.  Do you go running to your state senators and whine about Dominion VA or Washington Gas?

This bill in no way prevents Leesburg from raising their water rates.  They are free to raise them as high as they want.  This just makes sure that when they raise them the out of town people will still pay only 47% more than the in town folks.  The mayor doesn’t want to raise the in town rates because that will get her booted out of office.

apples to peahces, I’m tired of the same old too.

Roboposting?  Sorry, I only use my name, and state my opinion.

Not one I want others to think “many” people have, or one I am paid to cultivate on behalf of a client.

Miller is not mentioned by name—if he were, if would have been because he voted against it, which would have been consonant with his position on the toll road issue.

Leesburg is a sovereign entity, just as the shady tollroad umbrella groups have always been.

Nice way to get to the meat of it at the end of your anonymous ad hominem—“who am I supporting”?

Ask me again when there are districts.  In the meantime, why not ask Miller where he’s running?  lol!

So, all you townies want Loudoun County out of your business.  Well, you should have thought of that when you abused your privilege to control water utility rates.  You have no one to blame but yourself.  Your greed and your lack of concern for the rest of us got us where we are today.  Not one of you complained to the town over how we outsiders were being treated.  There are no good Samaritans in the town of Leesburg.  It is the Board of Supervisor’s duty to make sure that county residents are treated fairly.  That is what we elect them for.

From related article:

The Tea Party says government should stay out of our lives.  Well, the county gov’t should stay out of Leesburg!  This is OUR water and if others want it, they can pay for it.  Where is the Tea Party when ya need ‘em, or are they busy playing golf at River Creek and collecting campaign donations?

Pure manipulation by Herring and May.  Next stop, The School Board will have the authority to set tax rates! 

Those who lined May and Herrings pockets are pulling their strings and they are dancing like puppets.  This wreaks so badly of backroom deals someone needs to investigate it!

Barb, way to compare apples to peaches there (Board intervention in private industry profits vs. Board intervention in utility rates charged to THEIR County residents by an incorporated town government), in a your attempt to take any opportunity to bash a Supe you hate.  Miller wasn’t even mentioned in this article, yet you use the opportunity to again make an attack on him.  I don’t even like him, but can’t stand the spammers who use this public forum to just launch attacks like that. You’re getting to be as bad as those Dick Black robo posters. Really, we know he moved for public office purposes, we know he is using the Loudoun Board as a stepping stone, we know he flips and flops on issues (but, a breath of fresh air, he doesn’t merely ride the party line, IMO, which is about the only positive thing I’ll say about him).  As least the Dick Black’ers say positive things FOR their guy, instead of just 100% bashing their guys opposition. Who ARE you supporting, btw?

One, I don’t care what Warrenton is doing.

Two, the bill is there to protect citizens who have no say in the matter.  If the Town wanted to raise the fee to 400% would that be fair?  Of course not, but there is nothing stopping this.  Just keep it realistic and all will be well.

I guess Sally Kurtz, especially, showed arrogance over this one.  Sally Kurtz has contantly attacked those in Raspberry Falls, with their serious water problems, calling them names and refuing to listen to them.  But on this one, Sally Kurtz is all ears.  And from people who say that they try to keep their lawn a “little green.”  This whole thing started when it was commented upon that River Creek residents were using a hugh amount of water on their lawns.  Maybe, as referenced below, River Creek knew how to contribute to campaings.

-This is pure “insult” time, by people like Sally Kurtz.  The term “jerk” means many things to people, but in this circumstance, it is very applicble to Sally Kurtz.  She never understood, because she is very, very stupid, that she actually represents part of Leesburg.  I guess the problem comes down to the following:  Grease the skids for the out-of-towners, because that is where the “campaign” funds come from.  I wonder how much the members of the Board of Supervisors got in the past four years, as well as how much money Mark Herring and Joe May got from them, or the feeder groups out there who funnel money through them.

Laws were created for reasonable people to enact and for reasonable people to obey. Unfortunately, our society and citizens at-large are predominantly unreasonable in all aspects of daily living. We no longer compromise and find reasonable solutions. We dig our heals in and create controversy surrounding the issue which detracts from the original problem and diminishes any hope of resolving it.  This thought holds true to government at all levels and especially this case.

So, Senator Herring and Delegate May put up a bill that would give supervisors (perceptually good) accountability over the town of Leesburg’s water rates, and Supervisor-but-I-really-want-to-be-a-Senator Miller supports it.

Delegate LeMunyon puts up a bill to give Superviors what some perceive as bad accountability in having input on the toll process (and citizens a local forum to weigh in on rate increases), and it is a tantrum extroardinaire for the same guy.

Got it!

The City of Warrenton has been doing the same thing for years and I don’t see any out-of-town crybabies over there.  They don’t live in town, they pay 100% surcharge. But then,  they don’t live on golf courses either.  Awww, those impoverished folks living in River Creek. . .don’t ya feel sorry for them?

The Town Council has been given dozens of chances to “work through these solutions.”  The out of towners have asked and asked and asked.  Only this bill has even gotten them to the table. Unreal.  This bill isn’t perfect but its a better solution than anything that Leesburg has said so far.