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EDITORIAL: The ‘race’ to be the face of intolerance

Are you brown-skinned? Do you speak Spanish outside when walking down the street with friends? Do you wear clothing that has Hispanic styles, themes or lettering?

Let’s say all this applies to you – and you’re an American citizen, born and raised right here in Virginia, as were your parents. You follow the law. You pay your taxes. You’re as much an American by law as any sixth-generation white American. Too bad.

If Corey Stewart has his way in the Old Dominion, you could be a suspected illegal immigrant, detained and thrown in jail. Your crime? The color of your skin. Your ethnicity. The way you talk. The way you look.

Stewart is the chairman of the Prince William County Board of Supervisors, with previous and likely future intentions to run for statewide office here. But before he pads his political resume, he wants to complete his mission of making Prince William, and all of Virginia, his personal, political and cultural Petri dish of emotionally toxic wedge issues like immigration.

Here’s what Stewart wants to do: bring Arizona’s controversial – and perhaps illegal – immigration law to our state. Under the harsh, pernicious new Arizona statute, slated to take effect July 29, police officers who have what is loosely called “reasonable suspicion” about a person’s citizenship status would be required to stop and question anyone who looks like an immigrant. Police would also be authorized to arrest those who are unable to show documents allowing them to be in the country, likely mistakenly capturing innocent legals and U.S. citizens in the process.

The bill would also subject those who transport suspected illegals to harsh sanctions for knowingly driving such people – even if they are relatives or in need of urgent medical care.

This approach has garnered widespread criticism from many law-enforcement, faith and business groups. Rightly so. It has also, of course, commanded a narrow-minded following.

First, we’re scratching our heads to figure out what an illegal immigrant looks like versus a legal immigrant. How do you tell them apart, Mr. Stewart? Does an immigrant with fair skin, who may be from Argentina, get a pass on “reasonable suspicion,” versus an immigrant with darker skin, who may be from Peru? What does a Chinese legal immigrant – or Chinese-American – look like versus an illegal one?

Second, this is called, in its basest form, racial profiling. It’s driven by stereotypes, fear, mistrust and – most jarringly – bigotry. It’s disturbingly, alarmingly reminiscent of not just Third Reich Germany of the 1930s, but of America in the 1950s and 1960s during segregation – a point emphasized this week by local Del. Tom Rust (R-Sterling). As he says, “The targeting of any demographic group is just not American.” Right on, Mr. Rust.

Third, by deputizing local law enforcement to tackle a federal issue, we’re dangerously diverting scarce resources that would be better focused on existing violent offenders and the serious issue of drug trade along the border, not to mention timely antiterrorism needs. This, and a massively difficult task in enforcing the new law, is why so many sheriffs and police chiefs have come out in opposition to the Arizona law.

Fourth, simply put – Virginia is not Arizona. We are not a border state. We do not share the same challenges or the same problems. If Arizona should need more resources to combat the root of the problem instead of ensnaring innocents and legals as collateral damage in the process – then give it to them. Let Arizona build a border fence. Supply them with National Guard troops.

Fifth, under the Arizona statute, any litigious citizen or group would be empowered to file a lawsuit against any town, city, state agency or official that is suspected of not fully enforcing the law. With a statute that many law enforcement officials believe to be unenforceable, Arizona could see a massive tidal wave of spurious lawsuits clogging its court system by year’s end.

Last, and likely most important, is the fact that Arizona – rightly or wrongly – sees the need to act because it has been forced to do so in the context of a political vacuum. This has been created by a Congress and administration too spineless to adopt meaningful and actionable immigration reform at the federal level (where immigration laws belong). Thus, we’re seeing the painful Balkanization of immigration policy now scattered in patches across America in possibly 50 wildly different iterations. A nation founded and built by immigrants deserves better.

Here in Virginia, steps have already been taken to do on a state level what can – and should – be done on illegal immigration. As Rust has noted, we were one of the first in the country to tighten up the rules for possessing a driver’s license. Thanks to another local legislator, state Sen. Mark Herring (D-Leesburg), there is now a presumption of no bail for illegals charged with certain crimes, and a new law to check the legal status of a person accused of a crime at the time of offense through enhanced computer database cross-checking.

Both Herring and Rust oppose an Arizona-style law here in Virginia. We salute their principled vision, and their backbone. We urge their colleagues to follow their wisdom, and we agree with Gov. Bob McDonnell’s statement on an April radio program: “I’m concerned about the whole idea of carrying papers and always having to prove your citizenship. That brings up some shades of other regimes.” Indeed.

Arizona is fast becoming the epicenter of exclusion, intolerance and bigotry – a proverbial police state. We don’t need such a law in Thomas Jefferson’s Virginia – the cradle of democracy – where in an instant an entire ethnic group can become a class of criminal suspects.

Some lawmakers allege there is a sprint among states to emulate Arizona’s scorched earth policy. If there’s a race to be had, it’s a rush to the bottom for privacy, decency and civil liberties. Virginia should take a pass. Corey Stewart, and his agenda, should stay in Prince William.

Comments


I only wish our folks in Loudoun had the guts to do what Corey is doing (and wants).

The law in Arizona only allows police to detain someone only as long as it takes to verify their citizenship ONLY AFTER they have already been stopped/detained for some other unrelated violation. And it’s not like the folks will be thrown in jail—they will just be detained long enough to verify that they are not here illegally.

And the police are able to use their common sense to determine whether or not this is necessary, after all…

Think of it this way… You’re driving along the road and get pulled over for running a red light. While writing the ticket, the officer notices that there’s an ABP out for an individual matching your rough description who is wanted for a bank robbery. Wouldn’t it be prudent on his part to ascertain whether or not you are the bank robber before letting you go on your way?

Let’s not forget that these folks who have entered this country ILLEGALLY have committed a crime. They’re criminals by that very nature—they ignored the process and thumbed their nose at our laws when they ignored them and came into our country.

Further, they consume public services that you and I pay for out of our pockets, while contributing nothing toward paying for them… in fact, nothing to society at all.

These people deserve to be given the boot back to their own land as quickly as possible. And I applaud and welcome any laws which expedite this.


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Yeah, right!  God forbid that a liberal would ever say a conservative had made a good point or vice versa.  If by a miracle, they ever started to find common ground on something and started solving a problem or two, people who like to whine would have a lot less to whine about.  Lindsay Graham was pretty thoughtful on the subject on CNN this evening.  But he is probably not conservative enough for some and too conservative for others, so why bother even trying?


An article written by a professor from California,  now why would anyone believe he doesn’t have a liberal agenda.

But it was a good read just for the laughs….


If anyone is still hanging around this comment section, there is an interesting read in the Washington Post today.  It is a seemingly balanced look at the issue though unfortunately it seems the Post had to give it a title that does not reflect the balance.  Anyway, readers might want to check out Roberto Suro’s article on the front page of the Outlook section.  It is titled “Arizona set a trap.  Obama fell in.”  Now pardon me while I take issue with the ombudsman of the Post on this title.


LOL! I’m sure you’re not Dad as well.  His writing style is completely different.  When this editorial first went up, I did share with my dad but got no response.

If you think I’m informative, you should talk to my son.  It takes me hours to write out essays.  He can do it off the top of his head!


And you have a great sense of humor too, Agent J!  Full disclosure: nope not your dad.  Of that I am sure.  But I do respect open honest debate.  You have left politics out of it and brought in a lot of very balanced and well-researched information items.  Debates like this need more people like you.  I aim to try to do better and you have provided some good example.

But, please, feel free to share these comments with . . . your dad.


arrogant2sideddilemma—Dad, is that you?
*Agent J grins*  Thanks :) Unfortunately, rational thought isn’t easily condensed into rapid-fire sound bites.  I wasn’t sure anyone actually read my posts, much less checked out the links.  I appreciate that, even if it didn’t change an opinion.

I also forgot to add one more thing for David.  The reason NoVA counties are not being sued by the Feds is that we partnered with ICE through programs I mention in my previous posts.  Although some considered it, we did NOT write our own version of federal immigration law as Arizona tried.  Several Arizona counties (including Sheriff Joe) already use the same partnership.  My question is why isn’t that enough for Arizona?  Why did Arizona need to go beyond the federal partnerships?

Perhaps if someone can answer that, we can begin to find a real, workable solution.


Well, Agent J, clearly both you and Judge Bolton are part of President Obama’s vast conspiracy to turn the USA into a socialist state for Latinos.

Seriously, thanks for bringing your thoughtful and balanced approach to this dialogue and providing real numbers to back up your comments/observations.


How about that: Judge Bolton blocked the parts of the SB 1070 to which I objected and for the same reasons!

To the unemployed David in Arizona, I thought Arizona made it a crime to knowingly hire illegals?  Is there a reason you can’t turn in those employers in and/or file a discrimination lawsuit?


What’s the budget?  Do you want to deport 12 million?  5 million? 1 million?  500,000 illegals?  There is still a cost of doing business.  Some writers in this thread are as skilled as politicians, both Democratic and Republican at dodging/ignoring any question about cost.

And then there are those that just have to make it a partisan issue so they can grind their personal political axe.  Make no mistake my dislike of Democrats and Republicans is equal.  They collaborate to maintain their power and position.  And it is clear they are successful in dividing us when people like, Jon, who is clearly a sharp guy, writes things like:  “Meanwhile, faced by the President


Ok…looks like AZ SB1070 has done what Janet Brewer intended. Get the attention of dumbest (and you thought we had dumber).
Now that Americans know how severe the problem is, we do what we do best. Act. Get the job done.
Here in Phoenix we saw a news clip of the police enforcing the law in Prince William County, Virginia. Yes the similar law that the state of Az is being sued for by Obama. No race profiling going on there. We hear no complaints from Obama on a law that has been enforced in PW before he was sworn in as Prez.
At Dulles a few years back, ICE rounded up some of those working on the tunnel project.
On and on. Follow the law. Then employeers wont hire (cheap) labours that unemployeed americans are seeking. Beleive me, we are willing to work. I wonder how an illegal can justify breaking our laws based on “us” not willing to do those jobs.
Latest in East Phoenix: new school year started monday. Enrollment down in one classroom from 24 to 17. Leaders have newer seen that kind of drop. Next empact….lost dollars. Self deporters, maybe to your town.
Check out a business in Phoenix this morning:http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Maricopa-County-sheriffs-detectives-raid-another-Valley-business-99310594.html
Senator John McCain has been part of this problem.
Billing fences that can be breached. To few boots on the ground and a unwillingness from our feds has brought this pot to a boil.
We will fix it with our votes. Starting in AZ.
Angry unemployed in AZ.


Jon I couldn’t agree more ...  said on July 19,

“Borders secured, employers fined and imprisoned and illegals apprehended and deported, however if there is no work I think they will self deport.”

But again wholeheartedly agree….


The actual financial burdens imposed by the illegal alien population on the American taxpayer are enumerated and explained at these links:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6633620258136248169#

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7446650228347650324#


arrogant2sideddilemma again pushes his ridiculous assertion that it will cost 94 billion dollars to deport at least 12 million illegal aliens. First of all no serious person has advocated the compulsory deportation of millions of illegal aliens. That’s a straw man that the open borders crowd likes to prop up as a false option so they can easily knock it down. Not only would it be costly and unmanageable. It would impose harsh consequences on the illegal population. The actual true life option to get the crisis under control is to simply enforce existing law, especially at the workplace. If the jobs dry up for illegal aliens, two things will happen. The word will quickly go out to the millions planning on entering the USA illegally, “forget about it,” the American people are getting serious and there’s no work here. Those future illegal entrants will stop coming. Secondly, as the law is enforced millions of illegals will gradually self-deport themselves back to their own countries. This reasonable process is called “attrition through enforcement,” and obviously costs the US taxpayer nothing. So the charge that it will cost tens of millions to “deport” all the illegal aliens is a red herring. Moreover, the presence of the current illegal alien population is conservatively estimated to cost American taxpeyers at least twenty billion dollars a year. And that’s based on the 12 million number of illegal aliens, not on the more likely twenty to forty million.
There is a plan and a process - ATTRITION THROUGH ENFORCEMENT. As soon as a presidential administration (sadly not the one in office today) gets serious and enforces the law this policy can go into effect on a national basis. Meanwhile, faced by the President’s abdication of his Constituitional duties to protect the country and enforce the laws of the land, the people of the United States must call upon their State Governments to do the job. Hence the Arizona law and all the others working their way through numerous State legislatures. The sooner this is implemented the better. Once America sees a significant diminution to illegal alien entries, the securing of our borders, the enforcement of visa regulations and a crack-down on visa violators - once there is a net outflow of illegal aliens back to their countries of origin -that will be the time when the American people will be in a more sympathetic frame of mind to consider the concepts embodied in the phrase, comprehensive immigration reform.”


There is a simple solution to this ongoing problem of illegal immigration and the current concern for Arizona’s strong stance.  Deport all of the illegals to Virginia and other liberal states… Let them become the victims for a change.


Just a quick survey of your lastest articles show Loudon is over run with tourist at will: eg.:

Man to serve four years for DWI crash with police car

Obviously both the tradition of Calvin and Know are dead and burried in Virginia by the globalist Catholics that have taken over with direction of the Utopian Jesuits and Statist progressive Conference of Catholic Bishops.

I say no sanctuary for Statist Catholics waving the banner of no salvation outside of the church.


Anybody ready to start raising that $100 billion ($94 billion was in 2007) to get all of them illegal ingrates out of here pronto? Seems like everyone wants to ignore that part of the discussion.  Jon? 
Gettin’ rid of ‘em don’t come cheap.  Sometimes you got to put your money where your mouth is. Or maybe you don’t if all you want to do is complain. . .

I don’t believe in printing money you don’t have or borrowing so our grandchildren will be paying for today’s problem.  I will ask for a tax increase to deal with the problem.  Will you?


Denise shouts Bravo. Read carefully and completely the essay she links to and you’ll know why. Her source endorses the political and economic integration of the North American Continent - the abandonment of US sovereignty to create the North American sector of the New World Order. And she is entirely correct. That’s just one of the reasons why some elites of both political parties have not stopped illegal immigration from Mexico. Thank you Denise for unmasking the grand design of the “open borders” cabal with such scholarly authority.


Bravo!  Thank you for FINALLY inserting a sane position in what has become an insane issue in Virginia.  For those of you who are actually willing to see what the basis of this problem is, and how to work toward solving it, please see this
thoughtful, reasoned essay: www.amphilsoc.org/sites/default/files/1510304.pdf


Jon, you make some good points, but Immigration and Customs Enforcement (see link below) has estimated it will cost only $94 billion to deport just 12 million illegals.  So, again, start a campaign and tell your elected officials that 1) they need to tax us to pay this expense 2) they need to borrow more money from China to pay this expense (but I don’t think the $94 billion includes interest) or 3) some combination of 1 and 2.  I see lots of complaints, but no plan to pay for the solution to the complaints. I see no plan except for Joel’s to change a political system that refuses to deal with this problem and most other major problems facing our country.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/09/13/estimate-for-deporting-illegal-immigrants-94-billion/


The following comment by arrogant2sideddilemma is pure fantasy:


Show me the numbers - I really appreciate your willingness to think about the costs of war and/or illegal immigration enforcement.  Here is some info that projects a total war cost of $2.4 to $3 trillion dollars.  The only tree on which this money grows is called The China Lender Tree.  Our grandchildren and great grandchildren will pay for these expenses well into the future because politicians today chose to borrow rather than tax us.  Tax is a bad word for most of them and they knew we would balk at funding war if we were asked to pay as we go.  Likewise, to deport 10 million illegals will cost maybe just a little bit of money - money that most of the avid anti-illegal immigrant crowd writing in response to this editorial don’t want to pay.  They want to whine and complain about the problem, but at the first hint of them needing to help pay for a solution, they then want to whine and complain about having to pay.  Call me arrogant, but it is what it is.

——————-

According to a Congressional Budget Office (CBO) report published in October 2007, the U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan could cost taxpayers a total of $2.4 trillion dollars by 2017 when counting the huge interest costs because combat is being financed with borrowed money. The CBO estimated that of the $2.4 trillion long-term price tag for the war, about $1.9 trillion of that would be spent on Iraq, or $6,300 per U.S. citizen.[9][10]

Stiglitz, former chief economist of the World Bank and winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics, has stated the total costs of the Iraq War on the US economy will be three trillion dollars in a moderate scenario, and possibly more in the most recent published study, published in March 2008.[11] Stiglitz has stated: “The figure we arrive at is more than $3 trillion. Our calculations are based on conservative assumptions…Needless to say, this number represents the cost only to the United States. It does not reflect the enormous cost to the rest of the world, or to Iraq.”[11]


I will attach some info from Truth or Fiction on illegal immigrants and Social Security as well as a link to a story from 2005 on the topic below.

On several fronts I agree with you Joel and I totally appreciate your push to reform the political system.  It is this system that is ruining our country - much more so than illegal immigration.  Again, it is but one issue on which our elected officials fail us.  If term limits were applied, their votes would be less susceptible to lobbyists and corporate cash.

But Joel, please don’t turn us into a police state.  Give law enforcement carte blanche to question people for 20 minutes?  What if they decide they want 30 minutes or an hour and work starts in 10 minutes?  What if they stop me to question me over and over and over and over because they don’t like the color of my skin?  Might be much more than a slippery slope - I’m thinking avalanche.  I will consider your approach when you can tell me law enforcement is perfect and none of the officers come to work with any bit of bias/prejudice.  Until then, I will fight the approach tooth and nail.

Truth or Fiction on the Social Security issue:

“As of this writing, Illegal immigrants are not benefiting much from Social Security.  It’s technically illegal to hire an undocumented worker so theoretically there should not be any paying into Social Security.  But because of so many illegal workers who use bogus Social Security cards to get jobs, billions of dollars of Social Security deductions are made each year as well as employer payments into Social Security on behalf of those workers. Illegals are not supposed to collect on Social Security and because their Social Security numbers are manufactured, they cannot collect so the money has become a part of the controversy over Illegal immigration.  There have been some estimates that more than $60 billion a year are being paid into the system because of illegal immigrants, money that would disappear if the immigrants did.

Immigration reform being debated in Congress could affect all this such as if amnesty is granted to illegal aliens currently residing in the U.S. or if illegal aliens are given some kind of participation in the Social Security system.  There is no legislation, however, that would give illegal aliens Social Security payments if they have not paid into Social Security.”

Here’s the newstory link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html


Wow


I appreciate the numbers, they are increases, which are good, and agree 100% about leaving the partisan politics out of it. I won’t say “failure”, because if you say that, then the only way to not fail would be 100% implementation…meaning, not one illegal alien gets in, and of course, that is impossible.

Regarding borrowing for war - I can say that I’ve felt virtually nothing as far as economics, rationing, lack of…anything, related to the war effort. Gas prices are pretty much rock stable, food costs the same. I have to sacrifice nothing while 2 wars go on. Now, these aren’t the same wars as WWII, where dozens of ships and hundreds of planes had to be built daily just to keep up w/ the attrition of war…but still, shouldn’t we be sacrificing or paying more taxes to fund these wars?? That’s an excellent question.


We don’t fail to see the problem.  The last time anything real was done was in 1986 when Reagan granted ‘just this one time amnesty and never again’.

Carter, Bush, Clinton, Bush and now Obama have done relatively nothing to fix this ever growing problem.

This thread is about illegal aliens run amuck with little to no oversight and Arizona trying desperately to relieve the pressure.  I mean if you have the head of ICE stating he may not pick up and deport illegals, that’s a threat and is unacceptable.

PWC under Corey Stewart, and I’m sure others, have done a marvelous job in relieving the pressure but more can be done.

Let’s leave the parties out of this since there is an equal lack of oversight to go around.

And btw, this piece is bias and not legitimate reporting, just an opinion piece….


How about those numbers - Show me the Numbers?  Look at those Democrats go!  The problem you all fail to realize is that this is not a Republican or Democratic failure rather it is a failure of both parties.  It is a failure of the federal government that has been led by both parties as this crisis has escalated.  Neither side has stepped up with a plan.  They refuse to work together on just about every important issue - immigration is just one.  I will be the first to congratulate Arizona and Corey Stewart if their actions force the hand of the federal government to do the jobs that we pay them to do.

Absolutely, stealing is wrong, but the point is that these SSN thieves are paying our social security benefits. The system would have already collapsed without their thievery.  Just an observation.

And on another note, maybe we should all have our taxes increased to help pay for all of this overtime work that these laws are going to produce.  Let’s see if Stewart is man enough to say his proposal is going to come with a pricetag to enforce it and that us taxpayers will have to do our part.  Or maybe we should just borrow more money from China.  That’s one thing we are really good at.  Let’s borrow money and kick Iraq’s butt!  Let’s borrow money and kick Afghanistan’s butt!  Used to be that we rationed and saved and sacrificed for war.  Now we borrow from a Communist regime and get deeper and deeper indebted to them.  When is the last time you wrote your Congressman and Senator about that problem?  When is the last time you told them that rather than borrow for war and immigration enforcement, you would really like to do your part?  Since they won’t tax us, maybe you would just want to write the government some checks for these wars and in support of the law enforcement work that is required to send 10 million illegals back to their home countries? 

Or maybe we should just borrow until we are all speaking Chinese.


I don’t have numbers for the Bush years, but I read this article when it came out just a couple days ago:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/16/national/main6683493.shtml
Federal prosecutions of immigrants soared to new levels this spring, as the Obama administration continued an aggressive enforcement strategy championed under President George W. Bush, according to a new study released Thursday.

The 4,145 cases referred to federal prosecutors in March and April was the largest number for any two-month stretch since the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency was created five years ago, the Syracuse University-based Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse found. They ranged from misdemeanor illegal entry to prosecutions of immigrants with criminal records.

The government’s heavy focus on immigration investigations already is creating a heavy burden for the swamped courts along the U.S.-Mexico border, whose judges handle hundreds more cases than most of their counterparts in the rest of the country.

Federal authorities claim that workload would grow if Arizona’s controversial new immigration law were implemented. The new law requires police, while enforcing other laws, to check the immigration status of anyone they have a reasonable suspicion is in the country illegally. It will take effect July 29 unless blocked by a court.

“People already are working 10- or 12-hour days and on weekends to just meet the caseload,” said Matt Dykman, a U.S. District Court clerk for the District of New Mexico, where the percentage of cases referred by Customs and Border Patrol increased by 54 percent from February to April this year. “It’s not an eight-hour day, because you have to process them and get them in court for that detention hearing.”

Some of the increase may be due to seasonal upticks in the flow of migrants, who often tend to cross the border in time for the summer harvest or other temporary work, Dykeman said. Hundreds of acres of fruit and vegetable crops are ripening in California’s Central Valley, for instance, where farm laborers flock in the warm months seeking jobs picking and harvesting.

The Department of Homeland Security, which oversees both investigative agencies, did not immediately respond to a request for comment on TRAC’s findings.

The nonprofit academic research group obtained the latest figures from the Department of Justice under the Freedom of Information Act. That agency also declined to comment on the findings.

U.S. Attorneys along the southwest border, from Texas to California, handle the bulk of cases referred by the border patrol.

Department of Homeland Security figures show that the number of illegal immigrants in the country has fallen in recent years. As of January 2009, an estimated 10.8 million people were in the country illegally, 1 million less than the 2007 peak, according to DHS.

At the same time, deportations have been increasing, climbing from 185,944 in 2007 to 387,790 last year.


What would be great to aid the facet of this argument would be someone to find, and cite, the number of illegal immigrants deported by the Bush Administration, and then the number during the first 2 years of Obama. A little averaging, and we’ll see how much better the Bush admin was about implementing the existing illegal immigrant laws - by how many butts got kicked out. Thanks


2sideddilemma. Wow, you really put your foot in your mouth. Stealing is wrong. Did you have a thought in your head thinking it’s ok to take someone’s social security number,ruin another persons life. Sounds like your the one who should be incarcerated.


2sideddilemma Please keep up the arrogant attitude for this was the impetus that started people talking and acting on this issue in the first place.  You made our point marvelously.  Thank you.


2sideddilemma admits to the jobs theft and then wants us to thankful and celebrate. How brazen is that? Thanks but no thanks. We’d rather have our jobs back. We really do know how to do landscaping and construction. We can do without your condensension. Virginians built this state - NOT illegal aliens. The sordid deal between unscrupulous employers and illegal aliens who undercut the wages of US citizens is nothing to brag about. And we’d rather not have our taxes paying for schools and hospitals made overcrowded and overburdened by illegal aliens who pay nothing for the services they use. Illegal aliens have their own countries which they should return to and improve. They are a drain on our economy and a threat to our peace and prosperity. We have more than a million legal immigrants ariving in the USA every year. American citizens need not apologize for the illegal alien crisis and need no new immigration reform. Illegal aliens are the lawbreakers. Its they who should apologize to the American people and then return to their own homes wherever they may be. And that’s exactly why Virginia needs an Arizona style law.


Thank you. Thank you.  Thank you, Loudoun Times Mirror for speaking out forcefully on such an important issue.  Make no mistake, we have an illegal immigration challenge.  But as our gridlocked federal government (Republican and Democratic) continues to fail us on this issue, we end up with the Corey Stewarts and Eugene Delgaudios of the world grandstanding on the issue for political purposes.  Rather than complain to the Loudoun Times Mirror, readers should be writing their US Congressman and Senators and demanding a real policy to deal with illegal immigration.  A hodgepodge of state and local jurisdiction laws will be a disaster.

As for Loudoun’s share of illegals, guess who built the houses you live in and office spaces you work in and the schools your children attend?  Guess who manicures the lawns?  Guess who uses other people’s social security numbers and pay millions, even billions, into the Social Security system even though they will never see a penny of retirement?  Perhaps if Americans were not so obese and allergic to work, we wouldn’t need hardworking illegals to do the grunt work that makes our economy go.

It’s complicated to be sure.


In VA the unemployment rate is 7.8 percent. If we use the broader measure that includes those who would like to work but have not looked for a job in the last 4 weeks it is 12.3 percent. This is called the U-6 measure. Standard unemployment is called U-3. There are a total of 276,000 Virginians who are unemployed (U-3). If we use U-6 it would be 437,000.  The number of illegal alien workers in Virginia was estimated in 2007 at 152,000. The government assumes a 10% undercount of the illegal population. So that would mean it was more like 170,000.  See Table 21 in “Immigrants in the United States, 2007: A profile of America’s Foreign-Born Population” which can be found here. http://www.cis.org/immigrants_profile_2007

If current immigration laws were enforced by the Federal Government or by an Arizona style enforcement measure enacted in Virginia, approximately 170,000 of the currently unemployed 437,000 Virginians could find work.  It is unconscionable that the Loudon Times would excuse and justify the imposition of an illegal alien population which is costing so many Virginians their livelihoods.

Citation: Figures are based on an analysis of the public use file of April and May 2010 Current Population Survey (CPS) done by the Center for Immigration Studies. All figures are seasonally unadjusted. The CPS is collected by the Census Bureau and analyzed for unemployment by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.


“We believe that the worst thieves in the world today and the worst terrorists are the Americans. Nothing could stop you except perhaps retaliation in kind. We do not have to differentiate between military or civilian. As far as we are concerned, they are all targets” -Osama bin Laden


9-11 NEVER FORGET


Corey Stewart is not the only local political celebrity supporting this arcane proposed law.  Eugene Delgaudio is certainly on Corey’s side and of special note is Eugene’s notorious brother, Richard Delgaudio.  Google, “Emy the Immigrant” and you’ll find the same Corey Stewart rhetoric but delivered in the hyper-fear-mongering style of Eugene.  (to include the money begging rants)  After you finish laughing take a moment to remember this isn’t a joke.
.
By the way, outstanding editorial props to Loudoun Times.


Oh Boy said, “You


Knock knock


Knock knock…anyone there? This article is about immigration and the laws. Not about the whinners and their views about news outlets.
Any breaking news about the ones self deporting? Lets see…oh yeah Avondale AZ housing (jail break)crisis…latest….moving to sanctuary states like PA, UT, VA, TN. Janet Brewer has more balls than our so called leader.
For all of you that thought we had a dumb Prez. We went dumber…maybe the dumbest. John McCain…well…deeper yet. Nov will be interesting. I will not vote any carreer politicians. Forget your tea party. Your time is up boys. Join the ranks of the unemployed. It is a shame you dont lose your benifits.


Don


vmj:

I’ve watched Fox News many times.  My grandfather has it blaring 24/7 and I sit over there and listen to it with him.  It’s not the right wing views that upset me so much but the fact they state they are “fair and balanced” when it is VERY obvious that they lean heavily to the RIGHT and make things up.

The Huffington Post and MSNBC lean heavily to the left however they admit to their left-wing views and don’t pretend they’re something that they’re not!! 

My point…DON"T post things as facts when they are not and/or you can’t back them up. Period!

Have a nice day :)


OH BOY ...  I’m tired of anyone who digresses by assuming said info was gleaned from watching Fox News.  Have you ever tried watching Fox news or reading something other than your liberal blogs and liberal leaning Huffington Post.  I watch them all you should try it, a healthy diversity of diet.

Try taking your own advice and expand your horizons.  Open your mind instead of your mouth and try listening and not just reacting. 

This thread is about Illegal Aliens, that by the way are people breaking the laws of these United States of America.  And ICE has been charged with the responsibility of enforcement which ICE has not been effective at.  Prince William County under Corey Stewart direction has been effective but can do more thus the new push on this subject. PWC spent a small fortune of ridding the county of this illegal element. Do you really think we wanted to spend money on something we had already been paying for?  If ICE or the government under Bush, Clinton, Bush, and now Obama was doing ‘their’ job, we would not be having this conversation today and the illegal alien problem would be a pimple and not the cancer it has become.

First and foremost, the anchor baby position must be stopped.  Borders secured, employers fined and imprisoned and illegals apprehended and deported, however if there is no work I think they will self deport.

As far as the criminal element is concerned we have enough of our own without importing them from other countries.

911 was an abysmal atrocity and should never be forgotten.  Arguing about who was legal and who was not is veering way off topic.

One fact worth noting is this article itself.  When you call out Fox News for what you perceive as bias, not pointing out the obvious bias in this piece….


Estelle R said it correctly- But now that we see a pattern of how liberal the paper is -biased to the 10’s with it being all liberal-Perhaps to get a job at the paper one’s voting record must be checked- and it decided that either one be a Rino or a Democrat and so that no other facts or point of view from now on will be printed or tolerated. I suggest because your paper collectively hides who is the author of several past editorial opinions-you rename the paper Liberal ?News? Only- over the past years the paper has gone out of it’s way to push the liberal agenda -I wonder now every week what fresh indoctrination will come out -It seems that only liberal readership is courted or spoken to -and facts, forget them -no hard work of reporters like Fox does-Also the libbers attack anyone who calls this ?paper ? to task- The paper used to be also more informative, about Loudoun and was able to be respectful to Christians, Conservatives and Republicans (while no one is perfect the paper sees dems as perfect)-so I am glad if I read the paper-I read it on line as it isn’t worth my time or dimes anymore- Maybe the DNC owns the paper too


Sonia:

You’re confusing facts with lies and proganda.

Your statment of “5 of the 19 hijackers had already broken immigration laws by illegally overstaying their visas,” is pure fantasy!!

Try turning off Fox News and READ the 9-11 report, The Looming Tower or any other reputable book on the subject!!


Nobody who is for implementing the Arizona law has yet to explain to me why the existing 287(g) and Secure Communities partnership programs are insufficient, especially when they’ve already netted nearly 2,000 potentially illegal people in Loudoun, Fairfax & PW in the last 2 years.

According to the interpretations of the posters here, under Arizona laws, the future 9-11 hijackers would only have been checked if there was REASONABLE SUSPICION.  They had valid drivers licenses.  If they acted like perfectly contrite gentlemen and since ethnicity is supposedly a non-factor, there would have been no reason for an officer to check further.  They still would have gotten away.


The staff of the Loudon Times should be concerned about the Arizona Law, but not for the reasons they argue. Their concern, indeed their grave concern, should be for the safety and security of Virginians if the law is not replicated in Virginia. Had a version of the Arizona law been in effect in the states of Maryland and Virginia the terrorist attack of 9/11 may very likely have been prevented. Here are the facts: All of the terrorists were foreign nationals, 5 of the 19 hijackers had already broken immigration laws by illegally overstaying their visas, 4 of these 5 were in contact with local police due to traffic violations, 3 of these 4 went on to pilot the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center and Pentagon. During the subsequent investigations it was revealed that the 19 terrorists held multiple drivers licenses. Had the Arizona Law been in effect in Maryland or Virginia, the 4 terrorists who were stopped for traffic violations would have been subject to a mandatory check against the Federal Terrorist Hot-line and other data bases to check for legal ID and residency in the US. Even if just one of the four had been detained and turned over to the INS (now ICE), the plot could have been unraveled. At the very least, one or more of the future pilots would have been incarcerated and en-route to deportation.
The editors of the Loudon Times should worry less about wearing their hearts on their sleeves and worry more about doing the serious work of journalism. A detailed account of the lost opportunity to foil the 9/11 plot is at:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5696958127894402691#


Newsflash for “the staff” of the Loudon Times. Ever hear of MS-13? Virginia has the 2nd highest concentration of this murderous gang in the country. Yes, Virginia. Most of the victims of its heinous crimes are fellow illegal aliens. I’m relieved to see you wouldn’t want to ask any of these gang members to produce ID and proof of legal residency if they are otherwise detained in a traffic stop or other incident which catches the attention of law-enforcement. By all means, the Loudon Times should make sure nothing is done that remotely enforces immigration law or helps law enforcement get the bad guys into the custody of ICE for deportation. You pampered dillatantes on “the staff” need to spend some time out of your air-conditioned offfices with the many, many family members who have lost loved ones to MS-13, the Mexican Mafia and the other illegal alien gangs that plague Virginia in every county, including Loudon.


Corey Stewart is my new hero.


Check it out folks. My fellow democrates wake up.
Janet Napolitano is a liar and she lead AZ.
Obama is not enforcing the laws he swore to uphold. Is Sonora the 51st state? YES the solution!

http://www.cis.org/Videos/HiddenCameras2


I cannot remember ever reading a more biased, inflammatory, factually incorrect item in a newspaper anywhere. The fact that this piece was printed is mind boggling. Not a sigle item in this “editorial” is true. Anyone who has taken the time to read the Arizona law knows this. The subject of this article is vitally important to the future of our country. Reasonalbe discussion of this topic will not be possible so long as ill-iformed, emotional, factually incorrect items like this are printed by supposed “professional” journalints. I whole-heartedly agree with an earlier poster, publishing this drivel with “staff” as the author, is an act of utter cowardice. If you willing to make a fool of yourself by printing something so obviously untrue, at least have the courage to put your name on it!


We are a nation of laws that everyone has to obey. This country needs to in force our laws. If we get to the point where some people need to adhere to our laws and some don’t than we are headed in the wrong direction and this I believe is why most Americans are scared and so divided, no longer united as Americans. This immigration issued needs to be resolved ASAP before our country is considered as a place that has so many problems that no one wants to come here.


“Arizona is fast becoming the epicenter of exclusion, intolerance and bigotry


I am so tired of hearing this kind of liberal garbage! The Arizona law is no more extreme than the Federal Laws…it just has teeth!  We cannot afford to drop all restrictions on immigration; neither now in this devastated economy, nor even when our economy is strong.  I support a well controlled immigration program that permits temporary labor for specific needs, but not an open door to any and all that wish to take advantage of so many government handouts.  And importantly, the 14th amendment(1868)was intended to ensure citizenship for the children of former slaves following the civil war(since they were not considered citizens), not for the children of those who come illegally into the country.  In 1898 the Supreme Court upheld the amendment in support of the children of chinese immigrants that had been living and working here, notably on the railroads.  But these were legal aliens, the “Green Card” holders of the day, as it were. It’s time the legislative, judicial and executive branches of what used to be OUR government started working for US again!  Vote ‘em all out in November!


Obviously, its not difficult to get into the United States illegally. The Terrorist from 9-11 used the legal channels and nobody caught them, mainly because nobody was looking for them.  But nearly a decade later, its more likely terrorist will try to get into the United States illegally by following the tried and true methods the illegals from Mexico are using. Which is walking across the border because a certain President refuses to actually halt the illegals.

In any case, if somebody really wanted to get into the United States illegally, they could. The border with Mexico might be a bad idea. But the border with Canada is wide open, as are the borders in US Territories (ie: Puerto Rico, Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, American Samoa, U.S. Virgin Islands, etc..)


Border partrol:

You need to quit making things up.  I’ve read the 9-11 report commission along with many other books on the subject and the majority had VALID unexpired US VISAs.

They were in the county LEGALLY on September 11, 2001!!!!!

Entering the United States as tourists was important to the hijackers, since immigration
regulations automatically guaranteed tourists six months of stay. The 14 muscle
hijackers who entered the United States in the spring and early summer of 2001 were able
to remain in the country legally through September 11. The pilots went in and out of the country for 1 1/2 years with VALID US Visas!!

Please do me a favor..find the part of the 9-11 report that states the highjackers had expired VISA and post you finding here.  I’ll be waiting but I won’t hold my breath..


Are you white-skinned? Do you speak English with an Irish accent outside when walking down the street with friends? Do you wear clothing that has Celtic styles, themes or lettering? If you do, look out, because you’ll be picked up as an illegal alien from Dublin! You guys on “the staff” have missed your true vocation. You should be working at The National Lampoon.


Americans arrested and tortured by the military, then thrown in jail (still there) just across the Mexican border, after a young man takes his father’s truck there for inexpensive repairs… because they were acting “nervously.”  The crisis on the border of the US is not something this paper should belittle.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704288204575362862267177490.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories


Oh Boy said:

“Nativel:

FYI


“Under the harsh, pernicious new Arizona statute, slated to take effect July 29, police officers who have what is loosely called


In this overall debate on Immigration, it appears that the majority of Americans believe that anybody in the country illegally should be deported. I don’t think too many people disagree with that argument. Except for the far left crack pots.

The core of the immigration issue is how do you go about identifying who is and isn’t an illegal alien? Racial profiling is the obvious choice, but it crosses the line when it comes to civil rights. As such, a better system of attempting to identify illegals needs to be developed.

If you ask me, I say that everybody with a drivers license should receive a universal stamp that confirms their “birth certificate” has been checked and confirmed they are a US Citizen. Since “most” people have a drivers license, this is the best way to begin the weeding out process. Those who are stopped are asked for their ID. If their ID has that stamp, it will confirm they are a citizen. Those without the stamp will be detained until further checks can confirm if they are legal or illegal. If found to be illegal, they are to be deported. This way, racial profiling isn’t needed to find illegals. They will just stand out because they won’t be able to get a “citizen stamp”.


@Nativel -  I bet you those 9-11 Terrorist wouldn’t be able to get in now with a valid US Visa. Lets we forget, America was attacked by surprise. Nobody was looking for terrorist to have valid Visas prior to 9-11. Now we have watch lists, no fly lists, etc.. If anybody attempted a similar attack now, they’d have to swim the Rio to get into the United States vs. walking in the front door on a decade ago.


My understanding is that the AZ legislation simply requires the police to try to ascertain the legal status of anyone who they reasonably suspect is not a citizen in the course of any other enforcement action, such as a traffic stop, domestic complaint call, etc. 

That seems a good be more reasonable than the article implies and any time I have come into contact with law enforcement in my life, I have been “encouraged” to show proper identification, just as I would have in Nazi Germany I suppose.

We’d get farther faster if folks on all sides would refrain from inflamatory language.


Nativel:

FYI…The 9-11 highjackers were in the country legally at the time of the attack!  They all held valid U.S. Visas!!


I do NOT feel it’s wrong to deport people who truly do not belong in the US.  If they can’t make citizenship, they can come back when they have the legal right to be here.

But you’re wrong about when you think there’s “nothing to worry about”

I can’t seem post the links, but google “Suits for wrongful deportation by ICE rise” and “U.S. citizens wrongly detained, deported by ICE” and “Some citizens being held as illegal immigrants” to find just 3 articles from 2009 detailing the nightmare that happens when LEGAL residents are deported.


If you are legal there is nothing to worry about. If your illegal then your taking your chances. The laws are not set on just Spanish speaking people but for any one who enters the country illegally. This country had been watching a man from Russia for quite some time now. He is now going to be deported back to his country. Do you feel this is wrong as well? If you do not want this country to secure our borders, are you willing to see another September 11? We may be a country of immigrants but they to had to go thru customs. Rant and scream all you want but it’s time the Fed’s put their big girl panties on.


I find this an interesting and volatile story.  It would be good if a newspaper could promote legitimate discussion of the issue instead of this devisive type of fear mongering. What are the pro’s of the Arizona law? Why did the people of Arizona chose this way to resolve the problem? What are the con’s? Is racial stereotyping inevitable?  That is the kind of information I look for from a newspaper article.  This type of biased editorial would make me question the newspaper’s coverage of other issues that are not on the editorial page


RE: Wed, Jul 14 at 11:23 PM by geezy:

I know this is two days later, but I just stumbled across this article.  I have to agree with geezy.  Not every issue is worth the outrageous outrage.  Calm down people.


HEY “JOE’S MOM” DO YOU NEED A RIDE TO THE AIRPORT?


“Arizona is fast becoming the epicenter of exclusion, intolerance and bigotry” -Staff Writer

I didn’t know that enforcing the law was exclusionary, intolerant, and bigoted. Amazing.  I suppose we should just tear down the border fence, lay off all the border patrol agents, and provide free rides into the United States with no paperwork required.

First and foremost, anybody who is “ILLEGALLY” in the United States should be deported on site. Second, any measure should be utilized in the detection of illegal aliens. Its not as if illegals have a sign on their back saying, “I swam the Rio”.


Wow…This is so filled with lies it’s pretty obvious that the writer has never read the AZ Law. If he/she has, they should be prosecuted for willfully spewing such hatred and lies.  I can’t believe our President and Justice dept. encourages this type of racial hatred even though they know it is untrue. What is this country coming to?


From knowmyrights.org:

As a general principle, citizens who are minding their own business are not obligated to “show their papers” to police. In fact, there is no law requiring citizens to carry identification of any kind.

Nonetheless, carrying an ID is required when you’re driving or flying. Driving without a license is a crime, and no one is allowed to board an airplane without first presenting proper identification. These requirements have been upheld on the premise that individuals who prefer not to carry ID can choose not to drive or fly.

From here, ID laws only get more complicated. In Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, the Supreme Court upheld state laws requiring citizens to disclose their identity to police when officers have reasonable suspicion to believe criminal activity may be taking place. Commonly known as “stop and identify” statutes, these laws permit police to arrest criminal suspects who refuse to identify themselves.

Currently the following states have stop and identify laws: AL, AR, CO, DE, FL, GA, IL, KS, LA, MO, MT, NE, NH, NM, NV, NY, ND, RI, UT, VT, WI

Regardless of your state’s law, keep in mind that police can never compel you to identify yourself without reasonable suspicion to believe you’re involved in criminal activity. Rather than asking the officer if he/she has reasonable suspicion, test it yourself by asking if you’re free to go.

If the officer says you’re free to go, leave immediately and refrain from answering any additional questions.

If the officer detains you, you’ll have to decide whether withholding your identity is worth the possibility of arrest or a prolonged detention. In cases of mistaken identity, revealing who you are might help to resolve the situation quickly. On the other hand, if you’re on parole in California, for example, revealing your identity could lead to a legal search. Knowing your state’s laws can help you make the best choice.

Keep in mind that the officer’s decision to detain you will not always hold up in court. “Reasonable suspicion” is a vague evidentiary standard which lends itself to mistakes on the officer’s part, but it is also a relatively low threshold for causation and is sometimes sustained with minimal evidentiary support.

For this reason, it is best not to answer questions if you have to lie in order to do so. Police authority increases if they catch you in a lie, but not if you refuse to answer questions. As a general rule, reasonable suspicion applies to situations where police have reason to believe you’re up to something, but they don’t know what it is.

Thus the problem I have with “reasonable suspicion” vs. the more restrictive “probable cause” wording.


For those that “. . .refuse to carry citizenship papers,” you must have a hard time getting anything done.  As a citizen, I have to carry a driver’s license should I want to drive my car, show age to buy liquor, confirm my check for purchases, get served by hospital staff, etc.  If I want to fly a plane I need to show identification, preferably a passport or a military ID.  In short, all of us on a regular basis must prove who we are.  Requiring those who surreptiously entered to do the same is NOT too much to ask. If the actions of the police in any state legally remove from circulation those who would seek to take advantage of the least of us, or our way of life, then I am thankful they are able to do so.  While the target has been AZ, check out a similar law in RI or some of the laws of MO.  In comparison, AZ is laid-back!!


Hey Eds:

Better keep an eye on that red stain on your shirt.  I think your heart is bleeding.


Thank god Arizona passed this bill so the media will get off my back about all the pedophiles in the catholic church….


Agent J, I think KAOS is behind this Arizona Bill. It would be a good idea if you, agent 99 and Hymie look into this plot to destroy american civilization.


LoudounTaxpayer, since 2007, Loudoun County has partnered with ICE through Section 287(g) of the Delegation of Immigration Authority Immigration and Nationality Act AND Secure Communities.

Secure Communities is a program that modernizes criminal alien identification through biometrics.  A single submission of fingerprints as part of the normal criminal booking process automatically checks for information in both the Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System (IAFIS) of the FBI


Please don’t leave your trashy newspaper on my driveway anymore. I don’t want my kids reading this trashy opinion piece of crap.


It appears the person/persons that wrote this opinion hasn’t read the Arizona Bill, nor should be in the business of writing for any newspaper articles. First off Illegal is breaking the law no matter what it is, or who it is. Second, the Arizona law never mentions anything about race, sex, or language spoke. Third, you have to commit a crime before anyone can be checked. It’s obvious your opinion lacks analytical and logic skills from the lame statements made(or you’re just plain stupid). Here’s a question for you with regard to your opinion, How is Sen Herring’s bill going to figure out who is legal/illegal for obtaining bail, since it states “No bail for illegals”? I would have expected this type of opinion in a paper from Prince Georges in Md, Not Loudoun Virginia.


America. . Land of the Free.  I refuse to carry citizenship papers and show them on demand by the police. That is straight out of Nazi Germany.  I don’t like illegal immigration, but there are other ways around it (if both parties would bother to work together instead of spewing so much hate and lies).  I will not live in a country where police have so much power.  That may be Beck, Limbaugh, and Palin’s “real” America, but it is not MY America!


We are a country of immigrants but we are also a country of Nativism.  We have a long history of hating immigrants and it doesn


The whole issue surrounding “illegal aliens” is surrounded by bigotry, mistrust, and scapegoating. Most Americans are steered politically to hating this group of people during this time of economic instability by politicians pushing peoples buttons stirring up resentment and hate when failed policies are the result of 99% of the problems.

The problem with this law is that it places the responsibility on EACH AND EVERY citizen to be able to provide proof of citizenship at ALL TIMES. I don’t want to live in a state like that. I don’t want to give that kind of power to the police or sheriffs.

There was a time when Americans protected their Freedoms but it seems that fear and hate are replacing the urge to protect our individual rights to be treated like human beings and we are giving our rights away. Will most cops practice the law in a fair way (using it to check documentation at what appear to be illegal workers etc)? Probably. But the law doesn’t really empower cops anymore than they already are if they do. But what about that tiny percent of bad apples (that any organization can have) that wields this law to stop people for any reason that irks them?

The real issue is that illegal aliens come here looking for opportunity. We have to work hard to snatch that opportunity away from them, and this law doesn’t do that. We need laws that harshly punish employers of illegals and gives the authorities the ability to enforce those laws. This law may do that, but would also give bad cops the ability to harass and detain law abiding citizens.


Apologies:  NoVA rejected discriminatory profiling in 2007 not 2008.


What’s wrong with the 287(g) and Secure Communities partnership programs that since 2008 have already netted nearly 4000 suspected illegal immigrants in Fairfax, Loudoun & PW alone?

Some of Arizona’s counties already partner with ICE.  A working, nation-wide system is in place to allow communities to work with the feds, just like Arizona claims it wants to do. Why didn’t all of Arizona opt in?  While Gov. Brewer doesn’t know what an illegal looks like, Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) believes there are “common sense indicators” such as “shoes people wear, what kind of accent they have, um, the, the type of grooming they might have, there are all kinds of indicators there and sometimes it


Reading the comments below an editorial or opinion piece has become the online equivalent of driving past a horrific car wreck: you know there


I find it hilarious that the Times would run this type of blatantly biased and sensationalized garbage, and then list the author of the article as “staff.”  Cowardly.  If you have the audacity to spew this type of “editorial” at least have the bones to stand behind your words.

Otherwise, it stands to be argued that this editorial reflects the general opinion of the Loudoun Times, and in doing so just alienated the majority of its readers.  But don’t worry, I’m sure Obama has set aside some stimulus money to support his agents of propaganda.


What it really says


Kris Kobach Probable Cause video:

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid49625183001?bctid=83787450001


My counterpoints to this opinion and we all know everyone has one.

1. Illegal Immigrant is a person who is not a legal citizen or in our country legally. Race has nothing to do with the law.
2. This comment nothing to do with enforcing the law. You have no basis in fact here.
3. This is a false assumption. It is only when in the course of enforcing law that an officer would determine a persons legal identity. Period.
4. Of course VA is not AZ but illegal immigrants are here regardless. Enforce the law equally.
5. I believe anyone who has a sanctuary law is actually breaking the law. Not the other way around.
6. The vacuum is your understanding of the issues facing AZ and our country. The current law is not being enforced sufficiently and AZ is getting overrun with law breaking illegal immigrants. Look at the crime statistics.


I looked over and over again:  “Are you brown-skinned? Do you speak Spanish outside when walking down the street with friends? Do you wear clothing that has Hispanic styles, themes or lettering?” “The color of your skin. Your ethnicity. The way you talk. The way you look.” “...you could be a suspected illegal immigrant, detained and thrown in jail.”  I can’t find anything near, or insinuating this on Stewart’s web page.  Am I not looking in the right place?  Or are these exaggerations (untruths really) being printed by our county’s newspaper.  “First, we


Mr. Templeton I want to thank you for pointing out your liberalism, although with your condescension towards grammar and spelling it wasn’t that hard to figure out.

I know a little something about the immigration rules and regulations as it has effected me and family personally. I think what is missed is that the people who raise the stink about comprehensive immigration reform ignore the fact that there are already immigration laws and processes in this country.  What these people really want is to extend that process to people who willfully and knowingly broke the law to come to this country illegally and be able to jump the line ahead of people who have waited upwards of 10 years and done things the legal way.  Now you can call that system typical government bureacracy and I would probably agree with you, but the bottom line is that if you wish to come to this country there are rules that must be followed.


Once again your Wash. Post Jr. Grade steps in.

Never give the whole picture, slant the story to fit your prejudice and try to make those who might
disagree appear unwise.  You did not mention that
California has a more stringent law on the books,
or that Prince William County has had an illegal
immigrant law for three years and that it works
just fine.

It would be so nice if the media told the truth
minus the “Bravo Sierra”.  My families have been
citizens for over 200 years, but I still have
to show identification when asked. 

What is wrong with obeying the law???


“Corey Stewart, and his agenda, should stay in Prince William.”  Thanks very much, I think we will keep him.


lets just enforce the existing laws.


Thank you for your generally well reasoned and throught out editorial.  It was also, unlike the responses I’ve seen so far, spelled correctly and had good grammar. I’m proud to be an American- liberal, a Democrat, and a supporter of our president.  Perhaps your response authors should do a little more research before responding; they would find that President Obama is trying to do something about the immigration situation.  I find it increasingly hard to take the bashing that this so called socialist administration takes from the so called informed public.  Socialism is government ownership of the means of production and, so far, I don’t see that happening in the United States of America that I live in proudly, as I did when President Bush ran the surpluses given him by another Democrat president into massive deficits.  It seems to me that anything left of the far, extreme right is regarded by that section of the populace as socialist.  Can’t we all find agreement in the center somewhere?


I was from Loudoun CountyVA (now in Prescott AZ). I was born Canadian. My parents immigrated to the good’ol USA….legally. They applied…waited and was welcomed as most of our citizens ancestor were. That is what makes America.
The quote:“Arizona is fast becoming the epicenter of exclusion, intolerance and bigotry


Wow, I’m going to use your liberal rag of a news paper to line the dog cage. You are not even subtle about your bias.


Boy this paper should change it’s name to little liberal Washington post - the bias and false reporting and lack of reporting -all to favor 1000% democrats is out of sight! No more fair and balanced or both sides to a story - Just toeing the democrat speak!If the paper want’s to have illegals in the USA just come out and say so and stop trying to act like you feel sorry for all the problems that come with it -Soon the paper will want us to have the same budget busting issues facing CA-The best plan is for the Editors to move those folks into their own homes and pay for all the services they like to get especially with Anchor babies. Obviously I don’t like unions-but the reason they come is to devalue the cost of labor-and the bill for having them goes to THE TAX PAYER-My daughter in-law is Hispanic and has a masters degree and she expects the same salary white people get-so she doesn’t like the illegals either- But to the point because they are illegal How do you think we should get rid of all illegals -gangs and folks who are not here the right way? Why would the paper support breaking a law we all must fallow or are we to selectively break laws?

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