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Gun owners show off their rights in Leesburg
Five men sat around a table at Giovanni's New York Pizza in Leesburg May 19, eating pizza, sipping iced tea and sharing stories of what it's like to be a gun owner.A gun was holstered on each man's hip, in plain view of the customers dining at the family-style restaurant.
The men, who are regular citizens, not police officers, were openly carrying their firearms, mainly to exercise their right to do so in the state of Virginia.
"There are a lot of reasons," said Vienna resident Bill Garman, who carries a gun pretty much everywhere it is allowed. "You never know when a crime might happen. It's better to have it and not need it than the other way around."
In Virginia, it is legal to carry guns openly in most public places; in private establishments, it's up to the owner. Federal buildings, schools, secure areas of an airport and correctional facilities are some places where guns are prohibited.
Virginia law also prohibits concealed weapons where alcohol is served, so gun owners who want to carry their guns must do so openly at places like Giovanni's.
Legally, if someone wanted to order a beer while "open carrying," they could do so, said Cascades resident Ed Levine, his gun on his hip. He added that it would be irresponsible to do so.
None of those with guns at Giovanni's chose to drink alcohol during their meal.
A recent law passed by the Virginia General Assembly would have allowed restaurants and clubs to decide whether or not concealed-carry permit holders may conceal firearms in their establishments for self-defense, but Gov. Tim Kaine (D) vetoed that bill, saying that guns and alcohol should not mix.
Business owners have the right to ban guns from their private establishments.
Garman actually changed banks because of its rule against guns.
"I didn't want to give my business to a place that was anti-Second Amendment," he said.
At Giovanni's, owner Ciro Schiano said he had no problem with weapons being there.
"It's OK. We have police coming in with guns too," he said. "We feel more safe."
In fact, the majority of diners at the restaurant, even those with children, said they weren't bothered by the sight of the guns.
"As long as they're in holsters and not in their hands, it doesn't bother me," said Daniel Towle, who was there eating dinner with his wife, Carole, and their 3-year-old son, Thomas.
"I didn't even notice," Carole said, "and even if I did, I wouldn't think anything of it. It's Virginia."
Out of 10 patrons interviewed for this story, only one expressed discomfort with the situation, saying she didn't think guns were appropriate for a family restaurant. She declined to comment further.
The gun owners said they rarely receive any kind of negative response while carrying.
"I try to make people more aware of the law, but I could walk around all day and a lot of people wouldn't even notice it," said Eric Hansen, a resident of Harpers Ferry who grew up in Ashburn.
While working late at night delivering newspapers in the Ashburn Farm area years ago, Hansen was stabbed. He said he's carried a gun ever since.
"It used to be a way of life out here," he said. "As more and more city people moved in, the demographics changed and people didn't know what was going on."
The gun owners agreed that a lot of people just aren't aware of their right to carry a gun openly in Virginia.
"Most people who have anything to say are friends from Maryland or D.C.," said gun owner Shane Lamm, of Winchester. "They're kind of amazed because they're ignorant of the law."
Last week, Levine had a discussion with some Leesburg Police officers who were misinformed on the law. When he asked them what they would do if they saw him carrying his weapon openly, they told him they would want to check his ID and permit status.
Levine explained to carry a gun in the open in Virginia, you don't need a permit and there is no requirement to show identification to police.
That incident prompted Leesburg Chief of Police Joseph Price to contact Levine through e-mail with a response.
"The officers' information to you was incorrect," Price wrote. "We had already scheduled refresher training on this topic. Thank you for bringing it to my attention."
Kraig Troxell, spokesman for the Loudoun County Sheriff's Office, said officers are well trained when it comes to gun laws in Virginia and he was unaware of any recent incidents involving a misunderstanding over the open carry law.
Contact the reporter at ecoe@timespapers.com
Is Leesburg so unsafe that you need to carry your gun in a holster to eat pizza? I am a female gun owner and find it ridiculous to have any need to carry my gun on the "mean streets" of Loudoun.
Posted by dpunty
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Personally I "prefer" to carry concealed.. I would have been able to do so if the Gov of Virginia had not used his VETO power. Both Republicans and Democrats wanted this in the Virginia House AND Senate and Kaine still said no.. (but then he signed a bill that lets commonwealth attorneys and their deputies carry concealed, with no training at all.. and drink!!) Talk about a double standard.. That guy has got to go! If you ever see a person open carrying and want to talk to them about why they do it feel free to ask them.. we are all friendly people.. just like you. A few websites for more info are:
www.vcdl.org, www.opencarry.org
Posted by Ed
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dpunty - it's not about whether YOU feel the need to carry, it's about the right to carry. If you find it ridiculous to carry in Loudoun, then don't carry. Others may find it necessary and they may feel safer doing so. Who are we to judge anyone else's comfort level. I, for one, respect their right to carry as much as I respect your choice not to.
Posted by DTag
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"Is Leesburg so unsafe that you need to carry your gun in a holster to eat pizza? I am a female gun owner and find it ridiculous to have any need to carry my gun on the "mean streets" of Loudoun.
Posted by dpunty"
It's not just Leesburg.. look at the world around you. Bad people are all around. Just GOOGLE crime or GANGS in Loudoun County or read the Leesburg Crime reports daily. Look at the crime in DC because nobody can have a gun (except police and the bad guys). All the Bad guys know their victims will not shoot back! People never thought Virginia Tech was Dangerous place.. Imagine if one of the students in the class could have carried a gun and shot Cho as soon as he started firing? You need to look at all sides of everything. I am not saying YOU need to carry your gun.. I am saying it is my RIGHT to carry mine. Like I said earlier.. it would not even have been seen if the Governor did not VETO the bill.
... when seconds count, police are only minutes away.
Posted by Ed
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to dpunty: on April 15th, 2007 if you'd asked 100 people at VT if a mass murder could happen there, you would have gotten 100 'no' answers. It can happen anywhere, any time. I'd rather have my gun and not need it, than need it and not have it...
Posted by roscoe13
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Most of us make the decision to be in a position to defend ourselves wherever we are. If anyplace were "so unsafe that we NEEDED to carry," we would not go there. But no place is perfectly safe, and there is no harm caused to anyone by honest citizens being responsible for their own safety and for the safety of their families. People need to get a grip on their "feelings" and learn a little tolerance. Gun owners are just another component of the unique diversity that makes America the number one destination in the world for those seeking a better life.
Posted by CommonSenser
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Dpunty - you sound like an average student at VaTech anytime before 4/16/2007, or at NIU before 2/14/2008, or a Lubbys customer before 10/16/1991, or a McDonadls customer before 7/18/1984.
We need to let the law abiding, who desire to defend themselves, carry their firearms as they choose. The AVERAGE permit holder is LESS likely to become a first time felon then the AVERAGE cop. Think of the 152,000 permit holders in Virginia alone. No blood in the streets. No traffic accidents turning into shootouts.
Law abiding folks do not go crazy just by crossing some imaginary line in the sand no matter where it is located. Carry in some locations may be restricted in one state, but allowed in others without any issues.
If you do not feel the need to have your gun that is fine. It is your choice. Mine however is to have my gun with me just like I have a fire escape plan, a fire extinguisher, and fire insurance. No, I do not expect a fire, but I am prepared. And no, I do not expect to need my gun in Loudoun, but I am prepared.
Remember, in America, there are 2.5 MILLION uses of guns DEFENSIVLY each year. Guns SAVE Lives!!
Posted by Pourshot
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About 20 years ago my father was dining at a Sizzler Steakhouse just north of Richmond. His steak was not done enough so he went to the counter to ask for it to be cooked more. As he approached the counter he found himself starring down the barrels of a sawed off shotgun. Violence happens where you don't expect it. You have car insurance because you don't know when that accident will happen. We carry firearms for the same insurance.
Posted by viii_ball
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To dpunty who asked: “Is Leesburg so unsafe that you need to carry your gun in a holster to eat pizza?”
If I felt the need to carry my gun in my HAND; I’D EAT PIZZA SOMEWHERE ELSE!
Does the city of Leesburg feel the streets are so “mean” that there is a need for their police officers to open carry a “gun in a holster” (as oppose to a bra, boxers, panties . . . their hand maybe?) when they eat pizza?
If Leesburg’s police need to be armed “to eat pizza”, its citizens would do well to follow their lead.
On a side note I have two questions for you: You claim to be a “female gun owner” and you “find it ridiculous to have any need to carry my gun on the "mean streets" of Leesburg”. Well where do you go, that you feel the NEED to carry your gun? And second: What reason do you have to go to such a dangerous location? Sounds like very stupid behavior to me.
Posted by Wildfire
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Is Leesburg so unsafe that you need to carry your gun in a holster to eat pizza? I am a female gun owner and find it ridiculous to have any need to carry my gun on the "mean streets" of Loudoun.
Posted by dpunty
Well here are five reasons to carry in Leesburg.
sexoffender.vsp.virginia.gov/sor/servlet/SOR
I carry for protection, I open carry as an expression of my rights.
Some people can not have a CHP because of there age(<21)but can legally open carry.
Others they don't need or want a GOV't permission slip to carry(CHP License).
Posted by JustDad
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I find this exercise in wild west exhibition and the supporting comments appalling - it's no wonder most citizens of the world's democracies think that we have lost our sanity on the gun issue.
Posted by twhtwh
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I personally don't understand how in a in a county like Loudin with a Sheriff's office and police departments who are paid for by the taxpayers - why people are allowed to carry guns. I am not anti-gun but I have 2 questions.
Are these folks ready to pay the penalty if they 1) USE the gun, 2) brandish the weapon at someone ? because if they did brandish one at me - LAWSUIT _ CITY !
What happens when someone who is not in the right mind decides he/she wants to strap on a gun ?
Talk about a pandoras box !
Posted by stephen
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To those that choose to be helpless,
The Police have no obligation to protect you!
publicrights.org/Kennesaw/PoliceResponsibility.html
Police have no legal duty to respond and prevent crime or protect the victim. There have BEEN OVER 10 various supreme and state court cases the individual has never won. Notably, the Supreme Court STATED about the responsibility of police for the security of your family and loved ones is "You, and only you, are responsible for your security and the security of your family and loved ones.
When something bad happens there are only two people guaranteed to be there, the victim and the criminal.
At best the police are minutes away, which can be a life time.
Posted by JustDad
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To those who choose to be helpless,
The Police have no obligation to protect you!
publicrights.org/Kennesaw/PoliceResponsibility.html
Police have no legal duty to respond and prevent crime or protect the victim. There have BEEN OVER 10 various supreme and state court cases the individual has never won. Notably, the Supreme Court STATED about the responsibility of police for the security of your family and loved ones is "You, and only you, are responsible for your security and the security of your family and loved ones.
When something bad happens there are only two people guaranteed to be there, the victim and the criminal.
At best the police are minutes away, which can be a life time.
Posted by JustDad
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VIRGINIA BEACH, Va (WAVY.com) -- Police in Virginia Beach have arrested two people in connection with a vicious attack against a father and son at a PIZZA PARLOR that was caught on surveillance video. A third suspect remains at large, and police hope the public will help track him down.
The department issued the following news release with details about the incident and the suspects:
On Sunday, May 11, 2008, at 2:12 a.m., the victims, a father and his adult son, were inside All Around Pizza located in the 3500 block of Holland Road, sitting at the counter waiting for their order. Two suspects, Javier Manobanda and Ruben Marrero, entered the business and approached the counter beside the victims. The victims and suspects engaged in a verbal argument. Moments later a third suspect, Luis Manobanda, entered the business. Luis Manobanda punched the son, which led to a large fight. The victims were struck multiple times with chairs from inside the restaurant. The father sustained a serious head injury. The son sustained a back injury from the attack.
On Wednesday, May 14, 2008, all three suspects involved in this case were identified and warrants were obtained. Luis Manobanda and Ruben Marrero were taken into custody without incident in the 3000 block of Green Lakes Circle. Luis Manobanda and Ruben Marrero were interviewed by detectives and transported to the Virginia Beach City Correctional Facility. Both remain under a no bond status. Warrants are still outstanding for the third suspect, Javier Manobanda, who is still at large.
Arrested:
Manobanda, Luis G., age 28, of the 3500 block of Green Lakes Circle, Virginia Beach
Marrero, Ruben T., age 19, of the 3600 block of Sylvan Lane, Virginia Beach.
Charges on both for:
Aggravated Malicious Wounding
Felonious Assault (X 2)
Conspiracy To Commit A Felony
This case remains under investigations by the Department's Homicide Unit with Detective John Allen as the lead investigator.
Posted by chkultr
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Seems like my comments have offended some people. I purchased my handgun for protection against home invasion. My husband travels a lot and in spite of having 2 German Shepards, I felt it necessary to have a handgun at home. For my defense in public, I have a Marine dad who showed me how to handle myself in dangerous situations by using hand-to-hand combat skills and good judgment. In my 42 years, I have never had a fist fight or been near violence in public.
Posted by dpunty
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Stephen seems lawsuit happy and if it is open carry how are we brandishing?
Posted by chkultr
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Some facts to consider:
1. There are evil people in the world that will hurt or kill others
2. All the gun restrictions and bans in the world will not stop criminals from obtaining guns and committing violent crimes with those guns.
3. Violent crime can and does happen anywhere.
4. Humans have a God-given (or natural) right to self-defense.
5. The police are not legally obligated to protect you, the individual.
6. We as lawful citizens have two options: 1)Choose not to provide for our own defense and hope we never get attacked 2)Take responsibility for our own security and use the best and most practical tool (a firearm) to provide that security.
Posted by power_shack1
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To stephen who asked: “I personally don't understand how in a in a county like Loudin with a Sheriff's office and police departments who are paid for by the taxpayers - why people are allowed to carry guns.”
First off; does Loudin have public transportation?
Then why should the citizens of Loudin be allowed to drive?
There is no constitutionally protected right to drive, but there IS a constitutionally protected right to bear arms.
Secondly: In matters of life or death, when each second counts: the police are only minutes away!
Criminals go to some trouble to avoid committing crimes in front of the police; that is why so few officers have ever stopped a felony in progress, and why they almost never arrive in time to even arrest a suspect even AFTER the crime has been committed.
So while a cop is almost NEVER around when a citizen is criminally attack; the victim is ALWAYS present.
“Are these folks ready to pay the penalty if they 1) USE the gun,”
Do you mean if they use the gun LAWFULLY; like the vice-principal that stopped the Pearl HS massacre, the students that stopped the VA Appalachian School of Law shooting, Thomas Glenn Terry who stopped the Shoney’s Family Restaurant massacre Aniston, AL, the lady that stopped the would be church massacre in Colorado, or the dance hall owner who stopped the Edwards Middle School shooting?
Or do you mean UNLAWFULLY like: the goblins that murdered those people at VA Tech, Luby’s in Killeen, TX, the McDonalds in California, Columbine, Red Lake, Xerox in Hawaii?
Isn’t murder already illegal, with more severe penalties than any even being suggested for possession of a gun?
Laws don’t stop criminals; GUNS DO!
“2) brandish the weapon at someone ? because if they did brandish one at me - LAWSUIT _ CITY !”
Isn’t “brandishing” AGAINST THE LAW?
Then if they violate the law by brandishing a gun at you, and you are NOT a threat: They should be sent to jail as well as sued.
But if you are being a deadly menace to society; they should NOT brandish the gun at you, they should blow your brains out.
“What happens when someone who is not in the right mind decides he/she wants to strap on a gun ?”
If the person is a menace to society; why are they being allowed to walk the streets as a “Freeman”? I believe that if they are safe enough to walk our streets, they should be allowed to possess guns, PERIOD. (The worst mass killings in U.S history didn’t involve guns at all.)
Cho was insane; so why was his VICTIMS disarmed?
How does being made helpless, when one of these crazies you’re worry about decides to commit murder, make you SAFER?
Posted by Wildfire
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There have been at least three stories in the news within the last week about 911 failures. In at least two cases the caller died while trying to get help.
Has this great nation backslid so badly that people are no longer willing to take responsibility for themselves?
Posted by zoom
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Folks,
I rejoice in our freedom to each choose whether or not to exercise our constitutional rights.
I have been carrying openly at Giovanni's for years. And at the White Palace, or Mario's, or Ruby Tuesday's, or countless other local restaurants that serve alcohol. When I’m dining with my family at locations that do not serve alcohol, I carry concealed. Every conscious decision I make as an adult resident of Loudoun County is made in accordance with applicable laws, as well as my own personal standards of decent behavior. Of my four children, all teens, each understands why I carry a firearm. I’m sure that one of them will never carry a firearm when they reach adulthood, but that is a personal choice. We have discussed it a number of times, which, I’m sure has a lot to do with their understanding and respect for my decision. I do, however, have full confidence that they all will support the rights of others to make personal decisions about such matters.
I have never been challenged, questioned, or spoken to by other patrons or business owners while carrying relating to my firearm. It might have to do with the fact that I'm usually with my wife and kids, but I've a notion that even if I had dined alone all those countless instances, the result would have been the same.
If you choose to not exercise your rights, I hope you never suffer from that decision. Projecting your own standards of decency and appropriateness on my decision making process, however, is not acceptable. Please put a ‘Proud Owner Of A Gun-Free Home’ sign in your front yard, if it makes you feel better. Rejoice in your own rights, and the freedom you enjoy to have that choice. But please also accept the limitation of your own choices. Put any sign of your choice in your own front yard … but please do not insist that I put an ‘Avoid This Jerk Because He Owns Firearms’ sign in my front yard. It doesn’t work that way. If you are uncomfortable with our individual and collective rights and freedoms, please vote to change them.
I embrace the responsibility (to family, to community, to commonwealth, to country) associated with all the rights I enjoy as a citizen. My hope is for my fellow citizens to feel the same.
Posted by rwnj
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Gun-free zones are recipe for disaster
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/19/comm...
WACO, Texas (CNN) -- Zero tolerance, huh? Gun-free zones, huh? Try this on for size: Columbine gun-free zone, New York City pizza shop gun-free zone, Luby's Cafeteria gun-free zone, Amish school in Pennsylvania gun-free zone and now Virginia Tech gun-free zone.
Anybody see what the evil Brady Campaign and other anti-gun cults have created? I personally have zero tolerance for evil and denial. And America had best wake up real fast that the brain-dead celebration of unarmed helplessness will get you killed every time, and I've about had enough of it.
Nearly a decade ago, a Springfield, Oregon, high schooler, a hunter familiar with firearms, was able to bring an unfolding rampage to an abrupt end when he identified a gunman attempting to reload his .22-caliber rifle, made the tactical decision to make a move and tackled the shooter.
A few years back, an assistant principal at Pearl High School in Mississippi, which was a gun-free zone, retrieved his legally owned Colt .45 from his car and stopped a Columbine wannabe from continuing his massacre at another school after he had killed two and wounded more at Pearl.
At an eighth-grade school dance in Pennsylvania, a boy fatally shot a teacher and wounded two students before the owner of the dance hall brought the killing to a halt with his own gun.
More recently, just a few miles up the road from Virginia Tech, two law school students ran to fetch their legally owned firearm to stop a madman from slaughtering anybody and everybody he pleased. These brave, average, armed citizens neutralized him pronto.
more: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/19/comm...
Posted by Ed
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