Lawsuit challenging COVID-19 restrictions on businesses

Pictured from left, state Del. Dave LaRock (R-33rd), business owners Linda Park from Fredericksburg and Jon Tigges from Loudoun County, and attorney and state Sen. Chap Petersen (D).

Loudoun County wedding venue Zion Springs has filed a lawsuit challenging the commonwealth's restrictions on businesses and places of worship during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Zion Springs filed separate lawsuits in Virginia’s supreme and federal district courts this week, claiming the orders made by Gov. Ralph Northam (D) were “‘unconstitutional” and “caused economic hardship." The suit asks the courts to grant all Virginia businesses and places of worship rights to operate.

Dr. M. Norman Oliver, state health commissioner for the Virginia Health Department, and Northam are named as defendants in the case.

“Governor Northam is using powers that are supposed to be for an emergency, but instead he’s basically passing long-lasting and semi-permanent laws that are preventing Zion Springs from operating their business,” said state Sen. Chap Petersen, attorney for co-plaintiff Jon Tigges, owner of Zion Springs.

Petersen, a Democrat state senator from Fairfax, is also representing Linda Park, owner of a Japanese-style restaurant in Fredericksburg, in the suit.

The plaintiffs are claiming that the governor is not using new COVID-19 data  showing the virus is “significantly less deadly than originally forecasted." One of the suits challenges the governor's right to issue the orders by bypassing the General Assembly, according to media reports.

Should the courts rule in favor of the plaintiffs, they said “this judicial check will benefit all churches, small businesses, and individuals who have had their rights taken away without due process.”

Zion Springs had raised more than $2,000 toward its Virginia Freedom Fund as of Thursday.

The wedding venue has relied on various government investment opportunities during the pandemic, including the Paycheck Protection Program, but the senator said the business has had zero revenue for the past three months and may have to cancel weddings scheduled for the remainder of the year.

State Del. Dave LaRock (R-33rd) said he supports his constituent’s lawsuit to overturn Northam’s orders.

“When Governor Northam started writing executive orders in March, he claimed emergency executive authority,” LaRock said in a prepared statement. “The executive orders Northam has issued go far beyond what the law allows, not only in time, but in scope, as over 700,000 Virginians have lost their jobs under the governor's forced shutdown and micro-regulation of Virginia's businesses. Ending these restrictions is long overdue, and I'm pleased to stand with my friend and neighbor, Jon Tigges, to liberate Virginia's businesses and citizens.”

A spokeswoman for Attorney General Mark Herring (D) told the Richmond Times-Dispatch the attorney general's office “has successfully defended Virginia’s COVID safety measures against numerous legal attacks, and we expect to do so again.”

Loudoun County on Friday is joining the rest of the commonwealth in the second phase guidelines for reopening.

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Related:

-"Loudoun gun range loses legal bid on virus restrictions"

(178) comments

Lawman

Sovereign and qualified immunity will end this lawsuit before it begins.

Virginia SGP

Lawman, are you a lawyer? Those only apply to monetary claims and not equitable/injunctive relief.

Lawman

I know you want to be a lawyer son, but the LSAT was too much for you right. You don’t know what you are talking about. Stick to harassing women boy!

amerigirl

Not to mention that they knew the length of the quarantine and that this wouldn't be settled until the quarantine was almost over. It was all for show, get them some publicity.

hardworkingamerican

To the poor misguided soul who said Amerigirl knows anything wake up. Obama received the most Pinocchio's of any President ever. Quote, " not a smiggin of corruption at the IRS", FACT, the IRS was used by Obama to target conservatives and had to pay restitution, of course that was your tax dollars that did it. Quote, "you didn't build that", to the millions of Americans that invested their life into a business only to have Democraps tax all of their potential profit. Quote, "if you like your healthcare plan you can keep it, if you like your doctor you can keep them, $2,500 per family reduction." No need to comment on that one, half a billion spent on a web-site that didn't work and the private sector had to come in a fix it. How about fast and furious gun running where Eric Holder lied to congress. Oh then Obama gave him a pass and used executive privilege. How about Obama funding terrorism and forming ISIS because he is a moron and didn't get a status of forces agreement. How about Obama jumping on board with the "hands up don't shoot" lie about the thug Michael Brown? How about the Swine flu that infected 60 million people. How about Loretta Lynch colluding on the tarmac with Clinton, how about Lois Lerner and so many others who "pleaded the 5th" and by the way is still getting her pension and more. How about 150 billion in cash in a midnight swap, while others were rotting in jail that Trump has gotten out. How about "tell Vladimir I'll have more flexibility after the election" wink, wink handshake. God there is not enough room on this website for the evil and lies and corruption of one Barack Insane Obama. So Amerigirl blow it out your you know what!!! TRUMP 2020 ALL THE WAY!!

amerigirl

OMG Did you say that with a straight face? Not even close Trump has made so many lies that for the first time ever the people at WAPO that do the factcheck and assign the Pinocchio's are actually putting out a book of his lies in the first 3 years. It is called Donald Trump and His Assault on Truth: The President's Falsehoods, Misleading Claims and Flat-Out Lies, selling for $14.79 on Amazon. If that is too expensive you could get Donald Trump's Book of Lies for $7. Can you stop ranting about everything but the article? Please, pretty please? Do you still not understand how many millions now have health insurance? You still think Obama said "hands up don't shoot"? It was debunked by Obama Justice Department, it is now a slogan and what is there to debunk about a slogan? Another trumpster lie, Obama funding terrorism and forming ISIS, the same ISIS that was around before he was president? Trump tied to say it was because Obama withdrew from Iraq, but it was Bush who set the date with the Iraqi govt for the withdrawal date. Trumpster said that even though there is no evidence that Trump opposed the war in Iraq, that has been debunked over and over again. You have so many conspiracy theories it is unbelievable and you actually believe and repeat them without checking them out. Trump by the wayside 2020.

hardworkingamerican

Just so you all know, loudouncommonsense, is campaigning for Joe Biden. Problem is he forgot which President has done the most for America. But then that makes sense with Quid Pro Quo Grope Joe. Vote for a Democrap and you vote to triple your taxes, increase regulation, more inner city destruction, more deaths by abortion, de-funding police, riots, looters and murders in the streets like Chicago. This crap about Trump acting soon enough? Just CNN and MSNBC BS talking points just like the whole "Russia collusion". Trump was right, take a look at the facts idiot. The WHO is a criminal organization which has been exposed. But since you have no commonsense and since you live your life between the C and the N and the N we all understand. Hit the road and leave town. I promise no one will miss you.

amerigirl

We all know which president has done the most harm to America, that's why we are voting him out in November. Please stop with all your unfounded conspiracy theories, try educating yourself instead. other than that [offtopic][offtopic][offtopic][offtopic]

springerdad

How dare you lecture anyone on this subject. You really do take the cake.

amerigirl Jun 14, 2020 9:04am

That is the problem with Covid, how highly contagious it is. States that reopened too soon are having real problems. Look at Texas, they are going to open the Freeman Coliseum for over flow covid patients but they felt there stats were low enogh to open earlier.

amerigirl

............and???? what are you talking about?

Comment deleted.
springerdad

12 straight days.

Eyesopen

I rarely post a comment and gladly so. One thing has become obvious and factual. Amerigirl is the highly educated, virtuous authority on all subject matter. Just throw a line out there, and she'll provide valuable guidance and instruction. Please pay attention to her. LOL !!

amerigirl

or you can ask for sources and they will be provided.

loudouncommonsense

Had Trump acted in Jan-Feb when he was presented dire warnings, much of the economic heartbreak could have been avoided. He was too concerned about his reelection to act responsibly for America. So now we suffer.and he shot himself in the foot. He's got no record to run on having botched of covid, china, trade deals, Russia, the Middle East, the stock market and injuring peaceful protesters for a photo op where the Bible was used as a stage prop.

These facts should inform your voting in November.

Guest

Common-nonsense

Trump took aggressive action limiting foreign travel while the democrats opposed it. Biden called it a mistake and called Trump xenophobic for limiting Chinese travel to the US. The dems in congress didn’t even show up for corona virus meetings because they were preparing questions for the bogus impeachment trial.

The dems have been on the wrong side of every issue while you lie and blame trump.

What a stooge.

amerigirl

Not aggressive enough, do you realize how many fights were let in after he closed the borders? What meeting? Republicans haven't made a good decision yet. Lie, good god, trump is a pathological liar, and he is spreading it to the rest of the right. Fake videos , conspiracy theories, lies lies and more lies.

CindyLou

amerigirl…..I so admire your fight but these radical religious extreme racist won't ever get it. They have no values or ethics. For a church to be suing the State of Virginia for trying to keep everyone safe is a HUGE waste of money and time. These freaks will whine and whine about paying high taxes and do crap like this? These radical freaks simply don't like the Governor BECAUSE HE'S A DEMOCRAT. Beyond sad.

Is that you Kellyanne?

You might want to hold off on calling others stooges...after the comment you just made.

amerigirl

And he isn't acting now with the new surge either. Too busy campaigning (sign that waiver) and golfing.

Skyprince

Thanks for sharing the name of the business suing the state. We have 3 weddings coming up next year and two were considering Zion Springs....no more!! What is wrong with you, putting your business ahead of your health? I can only assume you must be Trumpees who don't care about science or medicine. You just care about your damn business....wake up, the CV19 is still here and still killing people. More cases are showing up in Beijing China again because too many businesses opened up too soon. Wake up...suing the governor et al is just plain selfless and greedy.

monavis

Gov Cuomo sums it up. the illness death. What's worse than economic hardship... death! We dont have the right to potentially infect others.

Virginia SGP

So we should shut down forever because the seasonal flu kills folks? Are you out of your mind?

The mortality rate for folks under 50 is 1 in 3000! That is 0.03%.

loudouncommonsense

and, AFTER 50? you are stupidly ageist

Virginia SGP

So you are saying that folks over 50, instead of locking down themselves for protection, should end the lives of those who haven't had a chance to (a) get an education, (b) earn retirement funds, or (c) basically live life? That is an amazingly greedy sentiment for an elderly resident. They do call the Baby Boomers the "greediest generation" for a reason.

Voltaire

Virginia SGP--So, are saying that people over 50 shouldn't have a life and instead should "hunker down" indefinitely so that the working age people can "get on with life". That's simply wrong. Everyone's life matters. You make it sound like people over 50 are "expendable". Why don't they do what E. Scrooge said in A Christmas Carol and "...just die and decrease the surplus population?"

Virginia SGP

The mortality rate for folks 50-65 is only 0.06% or about 1 in 2000 (CDC data). And that also takes into account folks with underlying conditions.

You all are hysterical. You do not understand the data. You do not care to learn. There are numerous illnesses which are dangerous to seniors. We cannot shut down the world for folks who haven't lived their lives (under 65) because some folks over 65 wish to destroy the world to slightly lower their risk. That is unprecedented and insane.

Voltaire

Virginia SGP--no I am not "hysterical". The medical community has repeatedly stated that the data on this subject is "not conclusive"/mixed and that the virus is a new virus. That is why the term "Novel" is in the title of the virus. Are you a virologist? No. Do you know the intricacies of the virus and what it is or isn't capable of doing? Again, no. But you act like you know more than the medical community worldwide. Who gave you the moral authority to make judgments about people wanting to learn? Nobody. Yes, there are numerous illnesses which are dangerous to seniors. Nobody is stating that they favor a permanent shutdown. People do, however, have a collective responsibility to the community to prevent the spread of a the virus and should take proper precautions (social distancing, proper hygiene, mask wearing (if applicable)). Is it really that hard to do these efforts? Does it really inconvenience the general population that much to do this? The answer for both questions should be no. Your response to my post supports my basic argument that you view the people over 50 as "expendable" and further it reinforces E. Scrooge's premise that they should just "...die and decrease the surplus population." That viewpoint is unprecedented and disgraceful.

Virginia SGP

Do you have a person in your family that is "vulnerable"? I do. Has ongoing cancer. Chemo treatments. Other treatments. Caught COVID from her doctor and recovered. Don't lecture me about what the risks are.

Such vulnerable populations are wary ALL THE TIME. Not just for COVID but a variety of illnesses. Especially the flu. They are terrified of the flu. If such folks are at risk for the flu, it is irrational not to shut donw permanently but only for COVID. You are just trying to make excuses because you failed to consider new DATA of which you are unfamiliar. The CDC puts out new info all the time. Instead of writing under the ultimate elistist title on the chat boards ("Voltaire"), why don't you actually try to learn something?

You suggest there are no consequences for the public. Have you not been paying attention? LCPS is suggesting kids can only attend school 2 days per week and must stay home the other days. How will parents who must report to workk survive?

How will businesses who cannot allow but 50% of their normal capacity into their stores survive when their margins are often very low? Countless businesses will go bust.

I don't think even you can deny that if/when the data shows the concerns were overblown, we should change course. Nobody has stated what data would warrant that conclusion despite a DELUGE of data showing just that. ALL of the supposed reinfections were false alarms. Nobody who contracted the disease has been re-infected. Even when kids contracted the disease, contract tracing shows they don't really disseminate it. Just because you are completely ignorant of the scientific findings does NOT mean you should bloviate on your ignorant assumptions.

If you disagree with any of this, state the sources, data and conclusions you found. At least it will take you off these chat boards for awhile.

amerigirl

SGP, doesn't think that all men should be treated equally in the US or people or 50

amerigirl

SGP, so you are saying that people who are 50-67, and don’t have the money to retire and can’t collect social security should lock themselves up and starve to death? You are saying that people who have worked hard all, paid taxes and social security, their lives don’t have the right to retire and enjoy retirement? You can keep using the baby boomer excuse but get real. If you worked hard and long to be able to spend you last years enjoying the life you couldn’t afford before how would you feel?

amerigirl

SGP, that does not take into account people with underlying conditions. It is a breakdown of age groups. The only one being hysterical is you because people are more than data. Hope for a vaccine, yes, take precautions, yes. Give special privileges to people who don’t car enough to wear a mask when next to their neighbors, NO. You still don’t seem to get all the effects that people over 30 are having from the disease.

amerigirl

SGP somebody ought to lecture you before you kill your relative. It is actually amazing that she survived about her odds were about 90/10. Like I said before my husband had it along with about 6 people he worked with, 1 hospitalized for 3 weeks the rest sick and recovered, but guess who didn’t recover? One of his co-workers wives that was fighting cancer and got it from her husband that tried very hard to not expose her. She was doing great, the doctor was saying with the progress she was making she could live another 30—40 years. Have you heard of daycare? Most working people with kids have it. Ow do you think your data would hold up if there had not been any precautions taken? How about after mutations?

Voltaire

Virginia SGP--no, that is not the premise that the poster (monavis) is saying. Governor Cuomo is saying that people have a collective responsiblity to not spread the virus and infect others. That means that people need to follow the proper precautions such as social distancing and hygiene requirements. Nobody is suggesting that there will be another shutdown for COVID-19. COVID-19 is not the seasonal flu.

Virginia SGP

COVID is similar to the seasonal flu. The only benefit is that is is not dangerous to young kids (under 5) like the seasonal flu is. Your hysterionics would have the US permanently shut down for any disease that can possibly be sprad and is harmful to the elderly (who live off the work of others to begin with). That is irrational.

The mortality rate for folks 50-65 is only 0.06% or about 1 in 2000 (CDC data). And that also takes into account folks with underlying conditions.

You all are hysterical. You do not understand the data. You do not care to learn. There are numerous illnesses which are dangerous to seniors. We cannot shut down the world for folks who haven't lived their lives (under 65) because some folks over 65 wish to destroy the world to slightly lower their risk. That is unprecedented and insane.

Voltaire

Virginia SGP--there is nothing hysterical about it. This is a new virus. That is why the word "Novel" is in the title of the name. How do you know what the virus is capable? Are you a virologist? No. So, you don't know what the virus can or cannot do. The medical community has repeatedly stated that COVID-19 is not similar to the flu. But, based on these postings, you act like you know more than the entire biotech/medical profession. Nobody stated that the US would be permanently shut down. The point is that the country, following proper safety measures (social distancing, wearing a face mask, and proper hygiene) can reopen. Are these approaches that difficult to do? Not really. BTW, your premise "... harmful to the elderly (who live off the work of others to begin with)" is what I thought in that you are saying that this group of people is expendable and you support the E. Scrooge premise that they should "...just die and decrease the surplus population". That is wrong/irrational.

amerigirl

SGP, it really isn't similar to the influenza strain in anything other than the fever and cough. Covid is much more contagious, has shown to have a lnger life span, cause vascular problems which is why people in their 30's to 50's are having strokes. t can also effect their vascular systems causing clotting and damage that can last a lifetime. There is also the syndrome that can effect children, even kill them. They may not die but they may never fully recover either.

amerigirl

SGP, Ignorance of what Covid-19 seems to be what is fueling your hysteria. It is not like the seasonal flu, it is different season throughout the world but the virus is still spreading throughout the world. It is dangerous for children too ( at least 5 died in NYC), but they recover better. All you care about I the mortality rate, what is wrong with you? The vascular problems have caused people in the younger age group to lose limbs to clotting, have heart attacks and strokes. You do not understand it is more than just the data on deaths. So you think it is reasonable to just give up and let those under 50 go out and keep spreading it? What about as it mutates? It has and will continue, up ti now we have been lucky since none of the mutations have been any worse than what we have. BUT now there is a mutation that contains more proteins (the protrusions from the mass) and it seems more deadly. Should we feed it more victims and see if it takes those under 50?

The only smart thing to do until there is a vaccine is to stem and control the spread.

amerigirl

You have to be pretty dumb to think this is influenza and also pretty dumb not to understand the phases of opening, which is not forever. Just deaths count to you? SAD Stop it from spreading and there won't be any deaths.

amerigirl

You realize how many over 520 are part of the work force? most people can't even collect social security until they are 67.

Voltaire

Virginia SGP—Don’t you dare go down that road with me concerning “do you have a person in your family that is "vulnerable"?” My dad DIED from COVID-19 approximately 2 weeks ago. So don’t you lecture me about it as I am very well informed about this virus and the risks are, thank you very much. I don’t need your elite smugness. Did anyone say that the country need to be put under permanent lockdown? No, that is your assumption based upon the opinion of one poster and no other supporting evidence at all. Why is so DIFFICULT for people to understand that COVID-19 is NOT the flu and that it is a new virus and nobody, not even the medical community, knows what this virus is capable of? Why is it DIFFICULT for people to understand that, if they take proper precautions (social distancing, hand washing/hygiene, mask wearing) that they can continue onward and the Government will not have to take drastic mitigation approaches such as lockdowns? Why, because it is apparent that people are more interested in their own affairs than that of the community. That is selfish and wrong. You, whether you all like it or not, have a responsibility to the community to prevent the spread of this virus. Don’t you DARE lecture me about learning. You don’t have the moral or any other authority to do that. Period.

I understand the data and also that there are consequences, thanks. The Trump Administration provided businesses with supplemental support (the PPP), and direct economic assistance. The Government has provided bailouts to entire industries impacted by COVID-19. Further, people, if capable, can telework from their homes and can work that out with their individual employers. You claim that “businesses who cannot allow 50% of their normal capacity into their stores survive when their margins are often very low?” How do you know that? Do you have insight into their operations and/or profit/loss statement? No, that is speculation on your part. There are business concerns that are making it, even with the restrictions. Why is that? Because these business owners are developing new product/service offerings and being innovative. As to those businesses that cannot do that, then the laws of economics should work and they should go bankrupt.

I didn’t say anything about not changing course if the data supports. However, as you are not a virologist, then again how do you know what this virus is going to do? The answer is that you DON’T but rather are an armchair physician/virologist throwing out data that doesn’t provide any DEFINITIVE conclusion whatsoever. Don’t lecture me on ignorance. Furthermore, I don’t have to provide you with squat. Finally, this is a free country and I can participate on this board anytime that I see fit and you don’t have the right/authority to judge me on my inputs. I am entitled to my opinion, whether or not you like it or not.

amerigirl

Well first you ignorance of the virus being a season flu keeps ou from making a realistic statement. Second, you only think deaths count. There are people who will take years to recover from the damage it has caused if they recover at all. Ask some of those people who have had strokes from it.

hardworkingamerican

Well I wonder how many people post here as "Guest"? I am making an assumption LTM that you can't use the same name if it is already in use? Please respond publicly so that we can know it's not the same person. If so then bi-polar has a new definition for sure. Ok, everyone forgot what the article was all about. It is to stop, slow or mitigate the spread of a virus that was hatched in Wuhan China. Hence the Wuhan Flu. The WHO and CDC screwed the pooch and lied about this in an effort to make the President, who had already been attacked by the FBI, CIA, NSA, DOJ and others in an effort to try and over-throw him un-constitutionally look bad. After all he did more for America than all Presidents before him. Fortunately these people have criminal referrals against them and after Rosenstein testified that things were done wrong/illegally and he was ignorant then we can finally start prosecuting those that tried to over-throw our Government. Of course now BLM has over-thrown our government and police force so maybe they should become the new DOJ? Would work for Trump because he supports Black Americans and other in their quest to get out of the cesspools of the Democrap run inner cities. Governor Ralph "Coonman", "Blackface" Northam is only in office because he cut a deal with the NAACP and "others" when his history of supporting the KKK and his blackface rants surfaced. Therefore he is a puppet for those that want to destroy anyone who would support, low unemployment, low taxes, low regulation and limit Government involvement. Democraps never met a Government program they didn't like. Circa LBJ and his "welfare" programs that did nothing but line pockets of Democraps and screw inner cities. Northam is a crook as is Herring, Wexton, Bell, Kaine, Warner who are in the pockets of those that colluded with British spies and Russian spies and Hillary Clinton and Barack Insane Obama and of course let's not forget...Oh he forgot...Forgetful Sleepy Joe Obiden. LOLLL. So sue the every living crap out of these people that want to harm you and tax you all at the same time. Then in November wipe them ALL OUT. TURN VA RED for LIFE. Remove Every Democrap.

testing313

As much as it pains to say, most lilkely this case will lose. A simiarl case went up to the supreme court recently, and John Roberts decided the final vote in favor of the left.

Virginia SGP

testing313, technically, I believe Roberts suggested that SCOTUS should not short circuit the regular judicial process because trial courts are best able to discern the facts and determine whether the "emergency" procedures were justified and fair. My understanding was that SCOTUS simply sent the case back down for factual determinations in the regular process.

amerigirl

They should lose.

Guest

Hardworkingamerican" I clearly detect a Russian accent in your post!

amerigirl

No they just have not created user accounts they sign on each time. If there is only one that would be strange because I have seen them argue with themselves if that were the case. What are you ranting about this time, I am NOT reading all that mess you wrote because I'm sure it has nothing to do with the actual article, you just vent about the same things over and over and i don't need to be subjected to it again.

Guest

You're racist rant is very Timely

UnrelatedGuest

Appeal to the 4th Cir.!

LeesburgFan

Good to see the bi-partisan comaraderie going after the spineless Governor and the State Health Commissioner! Should add our Dr. Goodfriend as a defendent too. I wish some businesses did this some 30 days ago, but it's better late than never. Especially when Northam will likely drag his feet in Stage 2 for many weeks or months citing irrelevant statistics. The only statistics that matter are Hospital bed/ICU availability and deaths. I'll state the obvious ONCE AGAIN, this virus is not as deadly as was predicted for working age people (under 65). It no longer warrants a "state of emergency" as is shown on VHD website. Really, we're still in "a state of emergency?"......come on.

(postscript: great color coordination by plaintiffs in photo, lookin' sharp to prevail in this suit :)

Good Guy

Nobody, no one, zero, nada, zilch people under 50 years old has died of this flu in Loudoun. Only one between the ages of 50-60. Hospitals were never overwhelmed. Meanwhile, businesses that could've operated far more safely than big stores have gone bankrupt. Owners invested their savings, worked hard for years and lost their livelihoods. Their employees lost jobs. All because politicians like Northam and Randall arbitrarily and illegally shut them down by dictatorial edict while still taking their own pay! Real people have been devastated and still it continues. It's long past time for a lawsuit against wannabe dictator Northam. We have rights including the right to make a living. A salute to Jon for standing up to tyrants!

Guest

You should change your name to murderer and join the rest of your retarded clan of idiots by going to work at the mortuaries that are under staffed all over the country right now.

Guest

So essentially all the protestors, rioters, and looters are murderers because they did not practice social distancing and/or wear masks. That’s ok right. You must be a left winger to not see the hypocrisy

Guest

Unfortunately you’re naïve idiot he doesn’t understand the basic facts of science and just continue to post moronic postings without any thought to the well-being of others. I suggest you go to the local emergency room and see what’s happening there and if you’d like to get infected go ahead and tell us how it works out for you.

Yet another guest

Extra credit for the snakebite in naive.

There are some fools posting here. They hope if they shout that there's no reason to modify behavior and everyone should go back to doing whatever they were doing before this virus hit, there will be some who are convinced by their arguments. I get it. 30% of America thinks Donald Trump is a good president. There's no shortage of stupid going around so maybe they succeed in that narrow sphere. The rest of us look at these comments and think, "God, I didn't realize there were these sorts of idiots running loose in Loudoun."

amerigirl

So people have to die to impress you? It is not a strain of influenza it is a strain of Coronavirus, 2 different things If it had been the flu it would be going away and not growing like it is in so many places of the country that reopened too early. We are not n a unique situation the world is having the same problem and the world is reaching days with higher number of cases than they have ever had. You can open businesses it doesn't mean you will have business. But trying to stem the spread will save more businesses than having to close down again because they open too early the first time, look at the places that did that and see what has happened.

Guest

Business owners are trying to protect their livelihood, while people who understand the risks of this disease are trying to protect people’s lives. I do believe the Constitution states “ We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.” Note that general welfare is what is being protected with these restrictions.

I am appalled that people can’t abide by the simple requirement to wear a mask - it isn’t any different than “no shirt, no shoes, no service.”

As for limiting people in establishments, how is that different than the fire code that limits the number of people for safety reasons.

This is the safety of the general populous

jthangar

I have no clue why Northam put restrictions on business. Basically Governers want to use this situation to get popularity for standing presidential elections. This virus is just like other virus or other dicease.

Guest

You definitely need to get a clue first. This virus isn't just like any other and it's not always about popularity and elections. The virus doesn't care if you're a business or not. It doesn't care if you go to work or stay at home. AND it definitely doesn't care if you're ignorant or smart. At least for the collective, smart people are doing the right thing to protect ALL- including the ignorant.

Guest

Yes, thank you exactly. Northam is a medical doctor and so am I. Less deadly viruses actually kill more people, because they spread more. This death rate is based on having hospital beds, ventilators and medical support. If that is over run, the death rate sky rockets. Northern Virginia is still a hot spot. I understand the real threat of losing a business and livelihood, but publically making ignorant statements is, in my opinion, a good way to get boycotted. It is saying, "I don't care if my customers live, I only care if I can make money off of them!"

Guest

if you're actually a doctor, you're a terrible one

Guest

So... You are a doctor... Go back to school then! It's never too late...

amerigirl

That is the problem with Covid, how highly contagious it is. States that reopened too soon are having real problems. Look at Texas, they are going to open the Freeman Coliseum for over flow covid patients but they felt there stats were low enogh to open earlier.

Guest

Thank you.

Guest

So the ignorant include all those who protested and rioted from George Floyd.

Guest

It is pretty clear by now that the ”experts “ don’t really understand the virus.

What we have learned is that it is a lot less deadly than predicted, especially for the younger, healthy population.

Of course doctors that are myopically focused on health risks will recommend continued lockdowns.

In real life, people need to work, support their families and live their lives.

Guest

Would that be "the younger, healthy population" that has experienced the post-covid inflammatory syndrome?

amerigirl

But they do know that it is mutating, 7 times in the US alone, There were only 2 versions of the virus before. The west coast had the one from Asia and the east coast had the one from Europe. The longer it lasts the more mutations can happen, and so far we have been lucky in the fact that none of the mutations have been more deadly than the original strain. Do we really want to push that luck? In real life you can't work if you are dead.

Guest

Wow, so you are basically say money over life. Your ignorance about this pandemic is sad and scary.

Virginia SGP

The CDC put out new estimates in June that the mortality rate is only slightly higher than the flu at 0.26%. For folks younger than 50, the rate is 0.03% or less than the flu (that 0.03% includes folks with underlying conditions so the true mortality rate for healthy folks is probably 1 in 30K or less).

Saying "I am a doctor and this disease is bad" is an indictment to your education in medical school. If you cannot articulate why a decision is justified, you should never have been a doctor. And let's remember that medical ERRORS kill 250K people in the US every single year, far more than the coronavirus will ever take.

Guest Thing 1

This pandemic is so much more than the mortality rate. While the majority who contract it will live, a very high number go through hell doing so...ventilators; blood clots that have resulted in embolisms and strokes; severely decreased lung capacity of which many people who contracted the disease in March are still recovering from; overwhelming fatigue that waxes and wanes for weeks or months; making it incredibly difficult to function in a job, as a parent, and in one's daily life; Kawasaki Syndrome-related diseases children develop; and more. This disease IS bad and IS so much more than the mortality rate. While I believe we need to reopen the economy, it must be done safely. Unfortunately, that means busiiness owners will suffer. No, it's not what I want to see happen...but neither is the pain and suffering of people experiencing COVID's life-threatening symptoms, their families who cannot help them, and individuals grieving the death of 7.6 million loved ones worldwide.

amerigirl

But the flu would have been gone by now and instead we are having a second wave in about 27 states. Some of them still have areas or counties going through their first wave. Do you think age matters? So they don't die as easily, they still spread it, they can still be stuck with some horrible side effects from the now pretty common vascular problems of it. People from 30-50 are having strokes and heart attacks and other vascular problems that can lead to amputation. Doctors commonly say this disease is bad, I hear it a lot because there are quite a few doctors and nurses in the family. Saying other things cause death is not a justification to let Covid kill even more people than it already has. People die from many thing but that doesn't mean we should try to say it's alright to let them die from covid too.

Virginia SGP

The "death of 7.6 million" worldwide? Are you talking about the Spanish Flu? Certainly not COVID.which has killed an estimated 400K.

Amerigirl, no rational person has lodged a successful argument with undocumented anecdotes since the Enlightenment. To suggest that we shut down because a new disease kills FEWER people than the seasonal flu is insane. The elderly have already robbed this country and their grandchildren many times over. Let the elderly stay home. You are the greediest generation that ever lived trying to destroy the lives of Gen X, Gen Y, Gen Z and everybody who came behind you. You simply do not have the intellectual capacity to understand facts or statistics.

amerigirl

SGP, don’t you think all the precautions is what has kept down the death rate from exploding? I guess we might find out since it looks like it is on the way back up again. Why don’t you just stay home? How would you like that? Seriously you can’t say that part of the population is free to do one thing but not the rest of the population. The logical thing to do is get a handle on it so everyone can do what they want. But there are so many people that have no respect for anyone but themselves that they won’t take the precautions. NOBODY tells them what to do they are tax paying Americans. Blah blah. You simply do not have the intellectual capacity to understand that we have to make it safe for all Americans not just those under 50. So, what group do you fit in boomer? Explain why you think the elderly have robbed this country.

KK153

100% chance you are a government employee

Mike Kay

JThanger. No clue? Evidently! Have you noticed the 'early opening' states making new records while VA is on the decline? DUH! Popularity? You're kidding right? You're another example of the "freedom for me, F everyone else!" crowd here in Loudoun who have no clue about, well, anything!

Voltaire

JTHanger--the Governor, along with the State Health Commissioner put restrictions on businesses to mitigate the spread of the virus. § 44-146.17 of the Code of Virginia outlines the responsibilities of the Governor. § 35.1-10. of the Code of Virginia outlines the measures that the State Health Commissioner can do to prevent transmission of disease. For the State Health Commissioner, that section/title does not prevent the Commissioner from taking whatever action he deems necessary to control the spread of preventable diseases as set forth in Title 32.1, including but not limited to the exclusion of employees, the medical examination of any employee, the immediate closing of a hotel, restaurant, summer camp, or campground, and the taking of samples for testing. Finally, COVID-19 is a new virus and is not similar to other viruses that is why the word NOVEL is included in its name.

Yet another guest

Here's an example of what I mentioned earlier...

Lawman

How ironic these knuckleheads running into the same legal theory as Black people do in trying to get at dirty cops, qualified immunity. Now maybe since it’s your ass in the sling, you might want to look at changing the laws.

Virginia SGP

We should definitely change qualified immunity. That is a real change we can all work towards instead of just posturing.

Voltaire

Virginia SGP--no, there is nothing wrong with "qualified immunity" so there is no need to waste the legislature's time on it.

Virginia SGP

Are you a judge? Did you read Wayne Jones vs Martinsburg?

Voltaire

Virginia SGP--Are you one? No. So it is the pot calling the kettle black, no?

Virginia SGP

I am neither judge nor lawyer. But there is a large majority who understand qualified immunity has significant problems.

You state "there is nothing wrong with qualified immunity". So please explain to us how an official can violate one's constitution rights (firing numerous tear gas canisters into a house rendering it unlivable even after the owner provided the keys for them to search), get off on qualified immunity, and court fails to even determine the actions were unconstitutional thus allowing the next set of officers to commit the same violation with impunity. You cannot justify that. And you likely don't have the courage to try. I'm all ears though. Give it a go.

Guest

Another unintelligible comment by lawman.

Some fools just don’t know when to shut up.

Guest

So let me get this straight. If you're a customer or employee and your company treats you badly, then you are deemed "guilty of filing frivolous lawsuits" even if it's about holding bad business accountable for malpractice whereas when bad employers file frivolous lawsuits, then it's "patriotic"? Gawd what a sicko world we live in. But thanks for the article. At least I have another restaurant to add to the BOYCOTT LIST and will be happy to spread the word so that that owner goes bankrupt. Oh and if she gets the coronavirus, no health care for her and anyone who gets the coronavirus after coming to this restaurant needs to sue as well so as to help divest any business tied to rightwing fascists.

Guest

And BOYCOTT Zion Springs as well !

loudouncommonsense

Publicity stunt or not, everyone has a right to sue for their rights. What is amazing is the commenters who, lacking a good argument, resort to name calling of the governor, other elected officials, and other commenters.

How weak your arguments become when you do that.

Voltaire

LCS--very good point here.[thumbup]

Guest

I just read this article, am I missing something, I don't see any name-calling. Maybe you have a different version than what I'm reading.

Voltaire

Guest--there is plenty of name calling on this site. For example, we have Governor Northam called practically everything but his legal name ("Coonman" "Blackface") we have people on the left making snide remarks about people on the right and vice versa. That is the premise I believe the original poster was talking about.

amerigirl

If you don't think that is name calling is that the type of thing you do all the time? Are you the same "guest" saying left wing nut jobs, ole black face, etc? If so that would only mean that you are incompetent of not realizing that the hate comes naturally to you and you probably don't see it.

Loudoun4Trump

Finally!!! No the gov. must explain why he wanted to trample on people's civil liberties....[thumbup]

Voltaire

Loudoun4Trump--not really. The case may be dismissed.

Mike Kay

Loudoun4Trump: Civil liberties to spread a virus to other people? LOL You have a strange concept of liberty. It's not only about you. BTW, why are so many libertarians supporting Trump? You've got it exactly backwards.

amerigirl

You mean protected the people during a declared emergency.

Guest

Oh Oh, the left wing nut jobs are going to be upset. Suing ole black face just doesn't go over well with the nutties

Guest

Blabbers you rightwing nutjobs who claim to be the party against "frivolous lawsuits", hypocrite.

Voltaire

Guest--not everyone who "blabbers...to be the party against "frivolous lawsuits" is a "rightwing nutjob". That premise is flawed. There are lots of people, of all political orientations, who want frivolous lawsuits to be dismissed and allow the court system to focus on the more pressing matters.

Voltaire

Guest--why? Everyone has the right to sue for their rights. Nothing to get upset about.

BTW, the Governor's name is Northam, not black face.

Beau Guest

Let's hope so. Mark is a very good person and would make a great governor. We know him here in Loudoun and that's why he wins elections here time after time.

amerigirl

He really is. Hard working and fair.

Mike Kay

Gotta love right wing racists calling Northam "blackface".

amerigirl

and they defend the guy who wanted to shoot immigrants before they got to the border, throws kids into cages for being brown, and claims there were good people on both sides. The one who head the govt that sent body bags, with toe tags to an Indian tribe that asked for covid supplies,Still holding that grudge from the casino days.

ace10

Again with the severe break in logic...

a person who is calling out Northam's racist past by reminding everyone that he either wore blackface or KKK garb is a "racist" according to you. If that's the case, wouldn't you be a "racist" for calling out people who you believe to be "racist."

Or is this just a political thing?

I already know the answer. No need to reply.

amerigirl

Oh yes you need a reply, don't think by saying that you won'r get one. Yes it is racist because it has never been proven that it was Northam in the picture and it has been investigated twice. No I am not racist for calling out people who are lying in their racist comments about Northam. You now nothing, You have been told repeatedly that it was investigated and never proven, but you keep on repeating it as a proven fact.

you have been told repeatedly that only 2 people in his school used that derogatory name for him, but you have made comments about it being his nickname. You can't seem to get a handle on the truth

amerigirl

Any other derogatory remarks, I hope you don't think anyone will take your post seriously after that.

AmeriGuy

I promise, no one with a clue and sane mind, takes your posts seriously "amerigirl". You do nothing but talk trash about our President and half the country.

Supporting a known racist in Northam is actually appalling. I hope Democrats force him out for the next election. They can certainly do better. Racism is wrong and he was proven to be racist.

Voltaire

Ameriguy--why would the Democrats need to force out Northam? By the Constitution of Virginia, he is only allowed one 4-year term. He cannot run for Governor again for another four years. If he wants it, I suspect that Mark Herring will be the Democratic candidate for Governor.

amerigirl

Oh NO it's another me wannabe. Then I guess republicans don't have a clue and sane mind since they are the ones responding to me. Which half of the country have I ever talked trash about? Liar, Liar. Northam isn't a known racist, prove it, come on you aid it was proven. Seriously, you had to copy my name? How original.

Fiscalconservative

Good for them. They obeyed the government to reduce the spread of Covid meanwhile the government allows protests and vandalism that spread Covid and destroy property? Is Mark Herring still alive or is he hiding in his basement?

Loudoun4Trump

Herring is still scrubbing the black shoe polish off his face....

Voltaire

If political tradition in Virginia holds, then Mark Herring might be the next Governor.

amerigirl

Why do all republicans defend trumps racism but go overboard on degrading democrats for doing things that they might be able to call racist if they try hard enough?

AmeriGuy

You keep spouting BS about our President. Did he wear blackface or even make racist remarks? No. Did Northam? Yes.

Stop with the party line BS. Its political... not based on fact.

Donald Trump is your President or you're not American. Show some respect.

Voltaire

Ameriguy--the Constitution of the United States allow for people to express various opinions about the President of the United States. So, just because someone doesn't like Donald Trump doesn't mean that they cannot be an American.

amerigirl

Ameriguy mewannabe, I will continue to spout the truth about the trumpster. Northam said he painted his face for a dance contest, show me any racist remark he has made. Trumpster wouldn’t cover that ‘beautiful’ orange sunbed created hue with anything short of makeup for TV. What are you talking about not based on fact, I’ll give you all the facts you want, just name what you think I said that might be false. I am American, I don’t lie to Americans and I love this country that he is destroying. Mostly I love democracy, and he is earing that down at a record rate. He is not worthy of my respect.

Voltaire

Fiscalconservative--the premise is flawed. The Government does allow for the peaceful demonstration as that is the protesters' constitutional rights. The Government does not allow for vandalism as that is a criminal infraction and should be arrested. The problem is the lack of consistency in the enforcement of the laws and that comes from the political classes who meddle in police operations and don't know diddly squat about riot control. I saw Mark Herring the other day on an interview on WAVY 10 (Norfolk TV). He was in his living room it appeared to me.

amerigirl

Now you make up lies about officials to fit our agenda. No it was trump and it was a bunker.

AmeriGuy

Again. Stop attacking the President. Stop believing CNN and MSNBC lies. Get a clue.

Voltaire

AmeriGuy--it is her right to do so. She is entitled to her opinion, even if it is not favorable to Donald Trump.

amerigirl

Get a clue, I mostly watch major TV news, you seem to be stuck on Fox. I will attack him as much as I want it's guaranteed in the first amendment, freedom of speech. Or at least it will be until he starts taking all your rights away because as he said he has “total” authority.

David Dickinson

Governor Tyranny must be stopped.

Voltaire

David Dickinson--the Governor's name is Northam, not Tyranny, not Blackface....good grief.

Guest

Actually, he named himself Coonman...remember?

Voltaire

Guest--his proper last name is Northam, not "Coonman".

amerigirl

Liar, Liar, Liar!!! Don't you keep up with anything but conspiracy theories. There were only 2 people who called him that in school and nobody knows why. Now it is a common racial slur for the right to use because they like to degrade everyone that doesn't think like them.

AmeriGuy

I think he's just calling out what he is known for.

It's ashame VA has a closet racist as a Governor.

Voltaire

AmeriGuy--how do you know that Governor Northam is still a racist? The answer is that you don't. People can change their perspective.

amerigirl

Unless you have been in a closet with him how would you now that?

Guest

Totally agree.

Mike Kay

LOL @ "Governor Tyranny". David Dickinson is another libertarian clown who thinks his "liberty" included trampling on the liberty of others. You guys should really buy a private island and have no gov't, all the AK47s you want, and leave rational people alone.

amerigirl

typical right wing 'got to call everyone names' third grade ploy.

AmeriGuy

Seriously??

You constantly insult and call our President names! Get off your donkey.

Voltaire

AmeriGuy--that is her right to do so.

amerigirl

I don't call the people commenting here names, their ideas are open for rebuttal. He is not posting here fair game, just like all the incoherent named people use on the gov. Climb back under your elephant.

BLT

Free advertising for the Zion wedding mill and no-risk pandering for politician Dave LaRock. This will go nowhere and of course, it shouldn't. Adding in church attendance to this is the tell...

Chris McHale

As a social liberal I hope they win. As a fiscal conservative I hope they lose. Just another lawsuit I'm torn over.

Virginia SGP

I don't gather they are asking for money. Why would a fiscal conservative oppose it? More business equals more tax revenue too.

Voltaire

There's a statement in the article that states the business has had zero revenue for three months. It is logical that they are asking for compensation. A fiscal conservative would oppose this as the taxpayers will ultimately pay for this both for legal costs and, should the court agree with the plaintiff, settlement costs. All of these costs will have to be made up through taxation. Although, I don't think they have much of an argument per se. The article also stated that the wedding business would have to cancel additional weddings so the argument that more business would bring in more tax revenue doesn't hold since the amount of proposed business is declining.

Voltaire

Chris McHale--I agree with your post entirely.

Virginia SGP

Voltaire, sovereign immunity precludes any damages. This is not about damages. It is about injunctive relief. It is not logical to assume that folks asking for restrictions to be lifted are asking for money.

Voltaire

Virginia SGP--are you their counsel of record? No, it is credible that they might be asking for monetary compensation. BTW, I am well aware of the legal concept of "sovereign immunity".

Virginia SGP

Voltaire, apparently not. Any first year law student would know better.

Virginia SGP

As my college professor would say, Voltaire, it is intuitively obvious. They would tell you that if you have to ask or cannot figure it out, you do not belong here.

Voltaire

Virginia SGP--my goodness, aren't we the elitist snob. Well, I spend my time managing/making money and don't spend every waking hour reading the law like you apparently like to do. Get over yourself.

Virginia SGP

If you are unfamiliar with legal concepts, you should not comment on them. As I said, any first year law student would understand you cannot sue a state for money unless it has authorized it (some due under gross negligence).

Some advice, "Voltaire". When you get caught making a completely unfounded assumption, just say "I stand corrected". The world won't end. People will respect you more. Fighting constantly to excuse your mistake just looks sad.

Voltaire

Virginia SGP--your "advice" has been noted and ignored. Frankly, I could care less what your "elitist" viewpoint of me is.

DavisB

Wait, you aren't part of this law suite - I thought you never met an elected office you didn't want to sue

Guest

Law suit duffus. Not suite.

Friend of Davis

Typos here can’t be corrected. Don’t be a grammar jerk. The sarcastic comment about Brian and suing everyone for laughing at him stands

Chris McHale

I don't want to sue any elected office. I would rather they simply go away and stop draining the tax payers. Elected officials and the ridiculous number of government officials are a burden on the public.

Virginia SGP

It must be frustrating to listen in on a discussion you don't understand. Kind of like a kindergartner sitting in on a college calculus class.

Do you find it more effective to just fake it that you actually have a clue? Or just be the class clown who makes irrelevant, stupid remarks to interrupt the class? When was the last any of these "sarcastic commenters" had a substantive comment? Sadly, so much of Loudoun consists of these pretenders.

Voltaire

Virginia SGP--my goodness aren't we a tad elitist, no? I didn't know that Loudoun County had an aristocratic class like that of the UK. What's your title?

Virginia SGP

Voltaire, it is Citizen With a *\/%* Clue.

Voltaire

Virginia SGP--how droll and trite. Well, you are entitled to your "opinion" no?

Virginia SGP

Once again, we are blown away with your insight "Voltaire". Get over yourself. You opined on topics you knew nothing about and got corrected. No need to hold a grudge. Move on. Joining those who call names without making any substantive comments (see DavisB, Friend of Davis, etc.) doesn't help repair your reputation. Maybe stick to financial issues if you really do manage money. Maybe you can explain to DavisB why a pension is part of a teacher's compensation, is considered as such in court (divorce cases), and can be quantified when comparing jobs. That would be an actual constructive comment.

Guest

A business person who has common sense, great post.

Guest

Does le rocketman still support trespassing to remove signs he personally finds offensive?

David Dickinson

Really? While Democrats everywhere are burning, looting, maiming, and vandalizing, this is your comment. Democrats are tearing down statues they don't own because they find them offensive. Could you be more of a hypocrite today? No, you couldn't.

loudouncommonsense

A False equivalency. You are committing non sensical rabblerousing and making stupidly perjorative commentary. Activists may be doing those things, but Democrats as a political force or a class of voters are not.

Guest

And what political party do these activists belong to? Probably not the right. Why is it so hard for you to admit that it is your political party causing so much damage? Do you really think the folks that creating “chaz” in Seattle are right wing activists? You’re a moron

Voltaire

LCS--I would disagree here. Activists work towards a common goal of change. Many of them are law-abiding and not violent. The rioters cannot be considered to be activists as they are law breaking criminals and should be arrested/prosecuted/jailed. As I have said, there is a very good probability that the majority of them do not participate in the political process.

Voltaire

Guest--no, that doesn't work either. Activists can belong to either political party (Republican/Democrat). You cannot make the argument that the rioters are Democrats so the premise of "Why is it so hard for you to admit that it is your political party causing so much damage?" is wrong. Furthermore, just because the activists in Seattle are left-leaning doesn't support the case that they are Democrats. They could be socialists and/or communists. Name calling doesn't help the argument any.

Virginia SGP

loudounnosense/guest/voltaire, you are missing the point. If anybody (call them radicals, activists, vandals, etc.) were tearing down statues of Lincoln, Democrat officials would arrest them and protect the public property especially if they had signs indicative of the alt-right. Here, the perpetrators have signs of the radical Left and the Democrat officials are watching as the destruction of public property occurs in the middle of our cities. It is being condoned not by the fringes of the Democrat party but the elected, Democrat leaders. That is lawlessness, vigilantism.

Voltaire

Virginia SGP--no, I don't think that I am. You are trying to blanket characterize activists and rioters as the same and they are clearly not. Activists are mostly peaceful and lawful whereas rioters are not. Destruction of public property is a violation of the Criminal Code. The law, this case the Criminal Code, does not give a care as to what political affiliation the criminals are. Given the situational parameters that they are dealing with, Law enforcement is doing the job that they are are required to do. Do you have any evidence to the contrary? No, you do not.

Virginia SGP

Voltaire, protestors/rioters/hoodlums were tearing down statues in Richmond and Boston of Christopher Columbus. Many of these are caught on TV but the police cannot be bothered to protect public property? If Lincoln statutes were torn down, you think police would watch?

And are you seriously suggesting these vandals/rioters do not vote Democrat?

Voltaire

Virginia SGP--do you know what the police were ordered to do? No. Have you ever manned a police line during a riot? No. My family HAS and they have told me that in riot control situations, the police operate through a chain of command and take direction from an incident commander. You don't know what the incident commander told them to do or not. Sometimes, in the interest of trying to control the incident scene, police may have to let property get destroyed. That's unfortunate but that's the way it is. If you think you can do better, then pin on a badge, put on a uniform, grab some riot kit, and man a police line and let's see how you would control a scene.

I am seriously suggesting that a large block of those rioters do not participate in the political process at all. You cannot make the case that every single one of them vote Democratic.

Voltaire

David Dickinson--can you prove that everyone that is "burning, looting, maiming, and vandalizing" is a Democrat? No. I would argue that the majority of the rioters are probably not with any party and also don't vote.

Guest

@Voltaire - and instead of "burning, looting, maiming and vandaling" people should vote to make a difference. This is a very important time to GO AND VOTE.

Voltaire

Guest--I totally agree with you that people should use the democratic process of voting to make changes.

AmeriGuy

maybe, but Democrats support them. Look at the comments made be looney Biden and others.

Just crazy.

amerigirl

Americaguy wannabeme, did you just call Biden Looney after giving me a hard time for calling trumpster names? Democrats do not support "burning, looting, maiming and vandalizing", neither does BLM, but things happen whether we support them or not. You thinking that they do is just crazy.

Voltaire

AmeriGuy--there is no evidence that shows that Democrats support "burning, looting, maiming, and vandalizing". Those activities are infractions of the Criminal Code. Joe Biden and other Democratic leaders are talking about police reforms and social justice. That is not the same as endorsing criminal activities.

Guest

Leesburg was reduced to ashes. Purcellville as well.

Voltaire

Guest--you have any proof to support that claim?

amerigirl

And the world missed it. because it never happened

Guest

I voted for Joe May, le rocketman's predecessor. I'm not a democrat and have never been.

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