Loudoun County NAACP | Discrimination Notice | Leaders

Loudoun NAACP President Michelle Thomas, middle, flanked by NAACP Education Committee Chair Robin Burke, left, and Vice President Amanda Tandy during a press conference in November 2019.

The NAACP Loudoun Branch is calling for an investigation into Loudoun County Sheriff’s Office deputies after a highly visible traffic stop along Route 7 on July 23.

Kaheem Arkim Smith, the driver traveling westbound on Route 7, said he was “harassed” by deputies investigating a drug case. Deputies said they stopped him for a defective rear brake light.

Smith, who is Black, said in a video shared online that about five LCSO vehicles ended up at the scene and that he was handcuffed and forbidden from filming the search of his vehicle. The video has been shared hundreds of times on Facebook between Smith’s posting and others’.

“They didn’t find [expletive]. I don’t use drugs,” Smith said on the video.

On July 24, the sheriff’s office issued a statement saying it is aware of Smith’s video and the allegations contained therein. The office said the stop was part of an ongoing investigation.

The investigation remained ongoing July 29, as did an internal review of the traffic stop, according to a sheriff’s office spokesman.

The LCSO said Smith was stopped for a defective rear brake light. Then a K9 Unit, trained in narcotics detection, was dispatched, and a K9 indicated the possible presence of drugs, authorities said. A search was conducted, and no narcotics were located.

The sheriff’s office said Smith was issued a warning for the brake light.

The local NAACP branch held a press conference in front of the sheriff’s office on July 24 to bemoan the stop.

“We demand the immediate independent investigation and termination of all LCSO deputies involved in the racial profiling and harassment of Mr. Smith,” NAACP officials said in a prepared statement. “We further demand the immediate formation of an LCSO citizens review board with subpoena power. Discrimination and hate cannot have a home in Loudoun.”

The LCSO said a complaint has been filed with the agency, and that “all complaints are investigated to the fullest extent and all disciplinary measures are vetted outside of the LCSO by the Loudoun County Government Human Resources Department and the County Attorney’s Office.”

_________

This story has been updated from its initial posting on July 24.

(243) comments

Penguin

Wow, 240 worthless and inane comments. Heres’s 241.

RoundHillGuy

all LCSO needs body cams backed up by dash cams. The camera does not lie. It's the easiest way to get to the truth.

amerigirl

I can't believe you and I agree n the same thing.

Bud

Interesting that this challenge to the Sheriff Office attracts press coverage at the same time that BOS is pushing to start it's own police force. Smells funny to me....

FCPS educator

So the NAACP wants a different set of laws for police - you are guilty no matter what if you are a cop - that is what they are saying - investigate what happens then fire them no matter what - great way to run a country - how about investigate and find the facts out then go from there -

amerigirl

Who said the NAACP wants a different set of laws for police other than you? The want fair treatment.

CindyLou

NAACP needs to set up an office in Loudoun County. Since when can an officer just pull you over and search your car for drugs? If they have paperwork that there has been an "ongoing investigation" on this person for sometime, then ok. But the police across this country are out of control. If there is faulty equipment, pull him over, give him a ticket, a warning or let him go. If he's not drunk, they need go about their business. It's a scary world now. Very scary.

amerigirl

They have a branch in Leesburg. They need to start a collection of how many times people have been pulled over for "broken lights" and follow up on the actions that were taken, and how many actually had faulty lights. Lie I said, both people that I know that were pulled over didn't have anything wrong with their lights.

Voltaire

Cindy Lou--You cannot make a blanket statement that law enforcement is "out of control". That statement is factually inaccurate. Further, you cannot prove that EVERY law enforcement organization is "out of control". You also cannot make a blanket characterization as to what a "normal" traffic stop is as each traffic stop is different and have varying conditions that warrant the use of various law enforcement assets, such as K9 units. The U.S. Supreme Court, through various rulings have established what constitutes a lawful stop and when a K9 unit can be deployed to assist in an investigation.

SaferLoudounRoads

Dear President Trump and Vice President Pence,

It’s highly disrespectful to take a knee at the NFL or MLB games but I believe that the time to kneel at the White House meetings has come.

Can there be any harm done in heads bowed in prayer to King Jesus the ruler over all the nations including the United States and His Father the one true God of heaven and earth, for His guidance during this tumultuous time and economic distress in our country? (To learn more about Jesus, go to Biblehub and READ John 1-21, SONG: https://soundcloud.com/eternal-city/king)

What other nation or people on earth could or would do that both in their political realm and personal lives? NOT ONE.

America is special because the Lord Jesus founded this nation under God bequeathing the honor to George Washington of being the first president, a godly man regardless of slanderous depictions of him by vile “historians”.

(Renaissance and a gentleman through and through: Rejecting his delicious retirement with his family and friends, sacrificing ease for hazard, As the general of the War he was paid today’s equivalent to $200k a year but stated that he did not wish to profit [??!!] from it and would keep an exact accounting and only accept EXPENSE incurred. In other words, return the rest!

IN STARK CONTRAST: Tenet Healthcare Corp, the second richest Dallas-based hospital, received $500 million in COVID 19 grants that DON’T HAVE TO BE REPAID. Its CEO Rittenmeyer made $24.3 million in total annual compensation last year [~100x]. During a presentation to investors in May, Rittenmeyer said the federal aid has been helpful, but “we believe that more is needed from the government.” [!!!!] )

When Boston was cannonaded by the British while the first American Congress met in Philadephia, Rev Mr. Duche extemporaneously lead them in prayer. Most of the members stood during the prayer. George Washington was on his knees. (In those days men stood in prayer while women kneeled.)

And the fruition of months of prayers? the decisive victory in the battles of Lexington and Concord, the first military engagements of the American Revolutionary War.

“There is no wisdom, no insight, no plan that can succeed against the LORD.

The horse is made ready for the day of battle, but victory rests with the LORD.” PROVERBS 21:30-31

As the White House leads by example in prayers, won’t the righteous meme spread throughout the nation and even the whole world?

When we bring honor to His Name, will He not act on our behalf as He did in delivering a great triumph for George Washington and The Continental Army?

Consequently, this nation was born.

Voltaire

SaferLoudounRoads--No, it is not time for prayers to be conducted at White House meetings. That is a clear violation of the principle of Church and State. Also, you are historically inaccurate. The Battles of Lexington and Concord were victories for the Royal Army of HRH King George III.

Voltaire

Jbsets--thank you for the link/citation. That article was very interesting.

doverboy

The Battle of Lexington was fought in 1775. The first US Congress did not meet until 1789. Must have been a long prayer

amerigirl

Historically inaccurate and if you want to preach go to a church, don't try and push your beliefs on others.

jbsets

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-yellow-house-helped-make-washington-dc-slavery-capital-180975378/?utm_source=smithsoniantopic&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20200724-weekender&spMailingID=43038139&spUserID=NzQwNDUzNDkwMDYS1&spJobID=1801924607&spReportId=MTgwMTkyNDYwNwS2

jke

Loudoun’s George Floyd moment, a broken taillight. Thank goodness there were extra deputies there at the time otherwise the charges by the race baiter Philipps would have been worse!

Martyd

Pretty sure tis is not about race- Try being a white guy with Grateful Dead stickers on your car...I have had this exact thing happen several times. They bring the dogs, search and then let you go...be respectful and it usually ends quickly. Everyone has to have a job and they are doing theirs...

sleezburg

Martyd- If you accept that because you have Grateful Dead stickers on your car that you are not deserving of constitutional rights you are terribly misguided.

amerigirl

They are doing their job by targeting certain people?

Loudoun Observer

Escalations that occur during traffic stops are generally a result of observations during the initial stop, discovery of active warrants/charges and/or militant, combative or resistant behavior by the driver. The media and the left continues to promote an environment where resistance and disrespect is the norm and encouraged as appropriate for certain people. Fortunately Loudoun County is still operating normally and making traffic stops and enforcing our laws. We shouldn't have to work so hard to convince our leadership to simply allow law enforcement to continue to protect us.

Voltaire

LO--totally agree with your comment.

EdMyers

Being respectful of the police is not a legal requirement. In fact being disrespectful is protected political speech under the 1st Amendment. Enforcing the laws selectively on one group while letting it slide for the majority is how we have systemic injustice.

Voltaire

EdMyers—No, you are not right. It is not right to say that ALL speech is protected under the First Amendment. There are exceptions. The question centers around what type of “disrespectful” language you are using. The U.S. Supreme Court, in Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire, 315 U.S. 568 (1942) held that a criminal conviction for causing the breach of the peace through the use of “fighting words” does NOT violate the Free Speech guarantee of the First Amendment. That last statement is purely subjective conjecture.

EdMyers

Disrespectful speech is not fighting words. Cohen v. California, 403 U.S. 15 (1971), was a landmark decision of the US Supreme Court holding that the First Amendment prevented the conviction of Paul Robert Cohen for the crime of disturbing the peace by wearing a jacket displaying "F** the Draft" in the public corridors of a California courthouse. "

jbsets

Do you have a law to cite for every comment you disagree with?

Free speech is protected, but being respectful is expected when dealing with the police. In this day and age, race, gender, religious affiliation, LGBTQ+ can be (not definitely is or even is) a problem and words can be exchanged that cause problems for both parties involved. It's best that none of us do anything to have an exchange that can be misconstrued. NOT all law enforcement is bad, just like not all people are bad. People are fearful so they are going to whip out their cell phones just in case. 99% of the time it's not necessary, but people are scared especially since no one in authority is stepping up to calm things down.

Here is a story of something that happened to me a million years ago when I was young. It's funny, but then got upsetting. My boyfriend lived one town north or me. I took him home and then headed home myself. This town is tiny. They had 3 police cars (might have more now.) During the summer they hired rent-a-cops to patrol the beach and sometimes on bikes with billy clubs but no guns, much like in Ocean City. I got to the town line and was immediately pulled over. I had a brake light out. Where are you going? Home. Go straight there. Ok. I moved along only to be stopped again by the second car in the center of town. I had a brake light out. Where are you going? Home. Go straight there. Ok. I moved along only to be stopped again by the third car a block later and less than a half mile from home. You have a brake light out. Yes, I know. I've already been stopped and told twice by the other two cars. Oh. Where are you going? Home. Go straight there. Ok. I finally got home, probably because there weren't anymore police cars and the rent-a-cops didn't work after sunset. Clearly they were bored. It was funny, but also annoying.

*Other than my first question directed to Voltaire, the rest is solely my opinion. This was not intended to insult any person, to make a political statement conservative or liberal, or to comment on race, etc.

Voltaire

EdMyers—You are correct in that Cohen v. California did hold that a state, California, cannot punish an individual for displaying a four letter expletive without violating the First and Fourteenth Amendment without stating a compelling interest. However, the key word is “display”. In the instance that you are describing, “being disrespectful” is a broad term and could include conduct. As noted by Justice Blackburn, in his dissent in this case, “Cohen’s display of the word “f**k” on his jacket was mainly conduct, not speech. Even if the Court found that Cohen’s display was conduct, they should have determined no protection was warranted as the speech constituted ‘fighting words’ “ It is also worth noting that my basic premise is still correct in that it is not right to say that ALL speech is protected under the First Amendment.

amerigirl

He did not say 'All' speech.

Loudoun Observer

There are two ways interaction with law enforcement can go. If you choose to do "what is allowed by law" but is otherwise unnecessary, excessive and belligerent, then you are very likely to get the same behavior in return.

EdMyers

LO, what you are saying is unless I have a culture and expression pleasing to police officers, I give up my constitutional rights to equal treatment under the law. That is exactly why BLM exists...to protest your very explicit viewpoint that it is acceptable for police to treat some people badly because you don't like them and think they deserve it.

Voltaire

Jbsets--The answer to your question is yes.

amerigirl

Totally disagree when my daughter-in law was pulled over she was very polite, always is, and very compliant and they still escalated to calling in a K-9 unit. There were 3 cars there all the time, all for this 5 foot 1 inch Latina looking woman.

Comment deleted.
Voltaire

Lawman—I see. You are making blanket generalizations that are racist. The use of the term “white boys” is racist. Also, you are automatically assuming that anyone who posts a comment, that does not fit your narrative, is AUTOMATICALLY a bad cop. Really? Do you have anything called EVIDENCE to back up that claim? No, you don’t have anything to prove that claim. How does this traffic stop DIRECTLY involve you? Are the individual that was stopped? No, probably not. So, you are clearly a hypocrite and further don’t give me this holier than thou attitude. As have been stated in other comments in this section, the U.S. Supreme Court has issued rulings that covered the topic of the applicability of use of drug sniffing K9 units. Further, the judiciary, both state and Federal, have issued rulings on the subject of what is constituted reasonable suspicion. You want to argue that, then get in a car and go to the U.S. Supreme Court and take that matter up with them.

LoudounPulse

Technology can solve this issue. Since there are no devices that read license plates, law enforcement can issue fines for broken lights without the need to pull over people and ask to search their vehicle. The only thing law enforcement should pull people over for is speeding, running red lights or stop signs, or the vehicle has been reported stolen. Everything else is an excuse for a fishing exercise and can be abused by rotten apples in law enforcement.

Virginia SGP

There is certainly some opportunity for abuse. But that is not the norm.

Didn't the police actually stop the DC snipers at one point? While that may not have resulted in an arrest at the time, many folks with outstanding warrants are identified when they commit other crimes. It appears you suggest that if the police identify one crime/violation, they should not check for others (what happens when they run your license).

What about checkpoints for drunk drivers? They find many people who are abusing the privilege of driving by not having a valid license (driving when their license was suspended for other reasons). So we are just supposed to keep our heads in the sand to this illegal behavior?

Body cameras should be worn. Data should be reported. But barring police from supervising a privilege doesn't make much sense to me.

EdMyers

Not having your license in your possession is a violation if you are driving. You are jumping to an assertion that they don't have a valid driver's license when the reality is they may have left it at home. I got stopped on my bicycle by an officer who demanded my license as identification. Who brings id when exercising?

Virginia SGP

Sorry if I made that implication as that was not my intent. I was referring to driving on a suspended license (not "having" a valid license). If you show them some other ID, the police could clearly see the person has a valid license even if it is not on their person.

Voltaire

EdMyers—You stated “…not having your license in your possession is a violation if you are driving.” That is correct. However, The Code of Virginia, at §46.2-800 states that “every person riding a bicycle on a highway shall subject to the provisions of the Code of Virginia section on motor vehicles and shall have the rights and duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle unless a provision clearly indicates otherwise.” So, if you were bicycling on a highway, then you should have within your possession a driver’s license as that is a violation similar to violation if you were driving a car. The issue of who brings an ID while exercising is not a defense for non-compliance. Ignorance is not a defense.

EdMyers

Voltaire, a bicyclist is not required to have a license to ride a bicycle on the road. You need a license only to operate a motor vehicle. You do have to identify yourself to an officer, but that doesn't require a driver's license.

jbsets

Who exercises? j/k

LoudounPulse

The Police should enforce the law, but they also shouldn't attempt to turn over every stone to see if a law is being broken. That process involves catching the innocent and the guilty in their fishing net and leads to problems like this one. It would be one thing if they saw a pile of drugs in the back seat and then asked to search the vehicle. Instead they asked to search based on nothing, didn't like being rejected, so they got a K9 unit who likely barks on command to justify a search without a warrant.

Voltaire

EdMyer—OK. As I stated earlier, the Code of Virginia, in §46.2-800, states that “every person riding a bicycle on a highway shall subject to the provisions of the Code of Virginia section on motor vehicles and shall have the rights and duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle unless a provision clearly indicates otherwise.” So a requirement for operating a vehicle is possessing a driver’s license. If you are on the highway (road) then yes, the law clearly states, that you must have a driver’s license with you, as that would be a duty of a driver of a car. If you want to argue that the applicable portion of the Code of Virginia is wrong, then go argue with the General Assembly in Richmond as they would have to amend the Code of Virginia as that is CURRENT.

EdMyers

A 14 year old can ride a bicycle but can't have a driver's license. A person who has lost their license because of a DWI can still ride a bicycle. Voltaire, think before you speak. The roads are not off limit to bicyclists without drivers licenses so it can't require them to present a license if they are stopped. It is common sense.

Voltaire

EdMyers--Don't tell me what to do. As I said, the Code of Virginia is quite clear as to the "rights and duties" of a bicyclist on a public highway. You want to argue that, then get in a car and go down to 9th Street in Richmond and have fun explaining why the current law is wrong to the General Assembly. That is your "right" no?

amerigirl

But a highway in Virginia is private roads or private streets that have been specifically designated "highways" by an ordinance adopted by the governing body of the county, city, or town in which such private roads or streets are located and (ii) the entire width between the boundary lines of every way or place used for purposes of vehicular travel on any property owned, leased, or controlled by the United States government and located in the Commonwealth.

Voltaire

AG—No, your citation is not correct. You are missing out a key statement. Specifically, the Code of Virginia, under § 46.2-100. Definitions, the first sentence states "Highway" means the entire width between the boundary lines of every way or place open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular travel in the Commonwealth, including the streets and alleys, and, for law-enforcement purposes…” The missing first sentence makes a big difference in interpretation of the Code of Virginia citation.

amerigirl

Yes I know and yes I am right. You missed the second half of the sentence. The entire reading is; "Highway" means the entire width between the boundary lines of every way or place open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular travel in the Commonwealth, including the streets and alleys, and, for law-enforcement purposes, the entire width between the boundary lines of all private roads or private streets that have been specifically DESIGNATED "highways" by an ORDINANCE adopted by the governing body of the county, city, or town in which such private roads or streets are located and the entire width between the boundary lines of every way or place used for purposes of vehicular travel on any property owned, leased, or controlled by the United States government and located in the Commonwealth.

EdMyers

Voltaire you are the one wrong, not the code of Virginia. Here's the citation that proves one does not need a license to ride a bicycle on the road in Virginia and thus is not required to present it during a traffic stop. (Verbal identification is sufficient for a summons for anyone -- pedestrians, joggers, skateboarders, etc -- charged with failing to obey traffic regulations while on a public road.) A bicycle is defined in 46.2-100 as a vehicle, but not a MOTOR vehicle. A license is required only to operate a motor vehicle and even then there are exceptions for motor vehicles (e.g. farm vehicles.)

"No person, except those expressly exempted in §§ 46.2-303 through 46.2-308, shall drive any motor vehicle on any highway in the Commonwealth until such person has applied for a driver's license, as provided in this article, satisfactorily passed the examination required by § 46.2-325, and obtained a driver's license, nor unless the license is valid."

JayZ

I agree with this I am not black but a woman and got pulled over by a female cop I was 69 years old at the time and in a Yuen Kane when the light turned green for like 4,seconds. I didn’t make the turn and she forced me to open the car door accused me of being drunk searched the car for alcohol (none) mDe me get out of the car and stand on one foot in heels and count backward from 100 by twos. I kid yu not I started this process when another officer pulled up and asked me if I were having fun yet, told me to stop counting , took her into his vehicle, checked the records and when she came out she apologized and cited me for not paying attention. $25. I wrote a letter to the Fairfax police and went to court. I still had to pay the fine and was told By a few legal people there that she had done this to many others, many of them women. I hope she is not stil in the force.

jbsets

I had something similar happen to me in Fairfax County 20 or so years ago. It was during time when male police were pulling over women over and raping them. I was pulled over at 11:30 pm (ish) while on my way home for a late volleyball match. I cracked my window. He didn't tell me why he was pulling me over. I asked to see his ID, which totally pissed him off. I passed my license and registration through the crack. While he was running a check, I called my husband and put the call on speaker and the phone where the officer couldn't see it. He asked me if I had be drinking. I said no. (I don't drink.) What was I doing? Going home from volleyball. Are you sure you haven't been drinking? I had to crack the back window so he could see my athletic bag and point out that I hadn't even taken my knee pads off. He finally let me go without ever telling me why he pulled me over. Since nothing happened and there was no ticket or other documentation, I couldn't report it.

*This is solely my story of an actual event. This was not intended to insult any person, to make a political statement conservative or liberal, or to comment on race, etc.

Voltaire

LP--technology has already solved this issue. Law enforcement agencies across the country, including agencies in Loudoun County, have adopted a new technology to combat auto theft and other crimes: automated license plate reader (LPR) systems. These systems can capture the image of the license plate of a passing vehicle and compare the plate number against official "hotlists" that show an array of infractions or reasons why it may be of interest to authorities. No, law enforcement should pull over vehicles for non-compliance with the law. ALL infractions, not just selective ones (speeding, running red lights/stop signs, or stolen vehicle).

Virginia SGP

So let me get this straight Voltaire. You are suggesting a perpetual police state with cameras tracking our every movement to find/discover any missing parking tickets or other infractions? How many tracking cameras are you planning on deploying?

I don't know the details of this case so I won't say whether or not the stop was warranted. If it was a back tail light, it is possible the officer had no clue about the race of the driver when the car was pulled over. If the car was pulled over because it met a description of another investigation, then it would be difficult to claim racial profiling.

The question is how much invasive monitoring are we willing to accept. The good news is that voters have a choice. If they think the sheriff gets it about right (I recall the old Sheriff Simpson used to pull off nonsense road closures early in the night including in residential neighborhoods as a sort of drag net before he got booted, all that changed when Chapman came in), the voters can re-elect Sheriff Chapman. I would bet this is the result given the low rate of crime and overall professionalism by the force. If the voters want higher crime, more intrusiveness, or a politicized law enforcement agency, they can elect a new sheriff or even create a Loudoun Police Dept. I highly doubt the latter will occur.

jbsets

Maybe not in Loudoun, but in other areas in the country, cameras have been installed at intersections to monitor speeding and red light violations. Tickets are issued and sent to the person with a picture. In some cases the picture and license plate don't match the owner's vehicle. On the other hand, my spouse, the perpetual speeder, especially getting through intersections but says not me, went through two intersections in a row. They were definitely pictures of his vehicle. Our insurance went up AND he had the nerve to hand them to me to handle. I said, oh heck no. This is all on you bud. Every time the pedal went to the metal, I would say, tickets...tickets...tickets... So for me, it proved a point to my spouse. However, I am 110% sure that's not what the cameras intent is.

*This is solely my opinion and my story of an actual event. This is not intended to insult any person, to make a political statement conservative or liberal, or to comment on race, etc.

Voltaire

Virginia SGP—No, I am not suggesting a police state. First, due to different political perspectives as what constitutes an appropriate balance between individual freedom and national security, there is no objective standard definition of what constitutes a “police state”. However, police are required to enforce all laws. They cannot be selective in enforcement. Whether the public agrees or not with that principle is not relevant. OK, Virginia SGP, I hate to break it to you but the police are already using technology for a variety of uses. The use of LPR systems is just one example. Automated speed enforcement cameras mounted on unmarked vehicles is another example of camera technology at work. There are a lot more types of cameras that are used by law enforcement. Overall, I think that technology is a useful tool to help law enforcement agencies perform their main function, the enforcement of the law. There is nothing wrong with that. It has been noted that the use of red light enforcement cameras and automated speed enforcement cameras have helped to reduce the number of fatal car crashes and promoted greater traffic safety. As to amounts of cameras to be deployed, that number should be contingent on the locality. I don’t believe that this country will accept the use of a CCTV as used by the Home Office and Constabularies/Police Services in the UK. Although, I believe that they are an effective tool too to use as part of a crime prevention and law enforcement. However, I believe that people here could probably make a stronger argument that that system is closer to an “electronic police state”.

Dbrown10453

Anyone on this post that thinks it’s ok to be pulled over by 5 officers and a K-9 unit for a broken taillight should spend some time in jail. See how having your personal freedoms and liberties restricted, your dignity stripped, and your rights ignored for a taillight. If your ok with that, then come back to this group and say “no harm, no foul”.

For everyone saying let’s wait to determine who is wrong, that’s cool. However, while we wait, should we shed all of the inconsistencies we already see.

1) how many officers, deputies, police personnel does it take to implement a traffic stop in the wonderful county of Loudoun/ Town of Leesburg? Does that number increase for minorities, magically?

2) Does every routine traffic stop include a K-9 unit and several other unmarked vehicles (or is that only reserved form minorities? And Is it done to give the impression to other non-minorities, that everything is under control and we’re handling these menacing minorities that love being involved in some sort of illegal activity?) Or, is it that this for the safety of minorities ? Who are far to often killed by uniformed officers. Is that standard in Loudoun county ? Somebody suggested something really bone headed, like they could have sent 30 police cars. They could have. And they also could have had a lynching too, right ?) Is there a large drug culture in this county? Or again is this the special treatment that only minorities get to experience?

3) if I am not arrested which one wouldn’t be for just a broken taillight. Why can’t I record the incident, if everything is being done in accordance with the law why not allow me to record it? Why is it that their (police) recording is deemed the grail when available, when absent we have to trust that they acted professionally and without prejudice. GTF*H.

ace10

Uh, you're spinning off into some alternate reality.

NOBODY is put in jail for unsafe or defective (motor vehicle) equipment. It's a summons. There aren't even any points associated with it.

If you think otherwise, please consult 46.2-1003. Good grief.

amerigirl

. I would hope that it doesn't get to the point they actually have to state how many vehicles should be at a scene. It's a waste I would of taxpayers dollars. Still it is a common excuse that is nothing but a lie to begin with.

Voltaire

AG--you cannot make a blanket statement concerning how many units should be at a traffic stop. Each traffic stop is different and there are many circumstances that require calling in specialized units. For example, if a vehicle is stopped by State Police, do they count against the "count" of vehicles? They sometimes will need a County unit to assist them. Or, if a vehicle is stopped by Town Police who pursue the vehicle into the County, they have to request backup from the County as they are outside the jurisdiction. If a supervisor is called, does he/she count in the count? Same argument applies to other specialized units. There is nothing wrong with calling additional units. Most police academies recommend that practice.

jbsets

I agree, even though your comment are apparently a blanket statement.

*This is solely my opinion. This is not intended to insult any person, to make a political statement conservative or liberal, or to comment on race, etc.

EdMyers

If you demand an immediate hearing before a magistrate, you will end up in jail for any traffic offense.

Voltaire

Dbrown10453—No, your premise is flawed. There is nothing wrong with a law enforcement officer (officer, trooper, or deputy sheriff), at the commencement of a traffic stop, requesting additional assistance if the circumstances warrant. Every traffic stop is different and you cannot make a blanket statement that all traffic stops are similar to a broken taillight. That assumption is wrong at face value. OK, as previously stated, the number of units and the mixture of units (state, county, city/town, or Federal) is based again on the individual incident. For example, if an individual was being stopped for an offense in the Town of Leesburg and he subsequently fled out of the Town’s limits into the County of Loudoun, then the Town of Leesburg Police would have to request assistance from the Loudoun County Sheriff’s Office as the pursuit has crossed jurisdictions. There is no evidence that supports the “conspiracy theory” that the number of units “magically increases due to race/ethnicity of the suspect. As for the use of the K9 unit, they, like other specialized units, can be called by the initial officer/deputy if the initial officer feels that that specialized unit is warranted.

The U.S. Supreme Court in Pennsylvania v. Mimms, 434 U.S. 106 (1977) ruled that a police officer may order occupants (driver and passengers) out of a vehicle once it has been detained for a traffic violation under a reasonable suspicion standard. The reasoning flows from the U.S. Supreme Court case Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968) and is based on officer safety. Further, the act of stepping out of the car isn’t inherently a search and doesn’t implicate the suspect’s Fourth amendment rights. Furthermore, once pulled over, the suspect is already “stopped” and there is little reason to prevent officers from taking what is interpreted by the courts as a safety measure (again, see Terry v.Ohio ) Once pulled over, officers have a wide latitude to temporarily limit the suspect’s mobility during an investigatory stop for the suspect’s and the deputy’s safety.

jbsets

Are you a lawyer or judge?

*This is solely me asking you a question.

Voltaire

Jbsets--I am not saying one way or the other....

Dbrown10453

Anyone on this post that thinks it’s ok to be pulled over by 5 officers and a K-9 unit for a broken taillight should spend some time in jail. See how having your personal freedoms and liberties restricted, your dignity stripped, and your rights ignored for a taillight. If your ok with that, then come back to this group and say “no harm, no foul”.

For everyone saying let’s wait to determine who is wrong, that’s cool. However, while we wait, should we shed all of the inconsistencies we already see.

1) how many officers, deputies, police personnel does it take to implement a traffic stop in the wonderful county of Loudoun/ Town of Leesburg? Does that number increase for minorities, magically?

2) Does every routine traffic stop include a K-9 unit and several other unmarked vehicles (or is that only reserved form minorities? And Is it done to give the impression to other non-minorities, that everything is under control and we’re handling these menacing minorities that love being involved in some sort of illegal activity?) Or, is it that this for the safety of minorities ? Who are far to often killed by uniformed officers. Is that standard in Loudoun county ? Somebody suggested something really bone headed, like they could have sent 30 police cars. They could have. And they also could have had a lynching too, right ?) Is there a large drug culture in this county? Or again is this the special treatment that only minorities get to experience?

3) if I am not arrested which one wouldn’t be for just a broken taillight. Why can’t I record the incident, if everything is being done in accordance with the law why not allow me to record it? Why is it that their (police) recording is deemed the grail when available, when absent we have to trust that they acted professionally and without prejudice. GTF*H.

4) when does having your car torn apart on the suspicion of drugs an ok thing, and how is that the same as having your home searched, they didn’t serve a warrant, which under normal circumstances could have been substantiated and vetted by a judge to look for anything. So unless they pulled up knowing they were going to tear apart a minorities car, I don’t think they brought anything with them to repair the damages that they inflicted. The irony in this is they said he had a broken tail light. They tore up his car far worse than just a taillight and that should just be excused and classified as a day as a black driver. Or should it fall under the associated cost of living in the county? Again GFOH.

5)last but not least, if this had happened to anyone, they’d be mad as some red ants. They’d want whatever group they could find to advocate for them and to scream from the rooftops how unfair, bias an ultimately unnecessary this treatment was. The fact that you don’t want to see it as such because the person it happened to is a black man, he should be happy he wasn’t arrested or killed. Let this one go, that is shameful and pathetic. Can’t we all agree injustice is wrong, it’s implied in the word. And isn’t subject to interpretation. Please don’t let your unwillingness to concede the blatant wrong in this situation and countless others (instances) be because of the inferiority you feel toward a group of people. Believe me even the racist people in this world, would be outraged at the inexcusable actions of these officers sworn to protect people (if they were doing this to people who looked and behaved liked them).

let’s all keep it 100% and agree that the taillight stop could have been legitimate. Unfortunately everything else afterwards subsequent detainment, illegal search and ransacking of the vehicle was totally uncalled for and unnecessary and only happened because they thought they’d they could get away with it. This is a result of them having gotten away with this type of behavior in the past. Clearly this wasn’t their first time running the old broken taillight routine.

Dbrown10453

Anyone on this post that thinks it’s ok to be pulled over by 5 officers and a K-9 unit for a broken taillight should spend some time in jail. See how having your personal freedoms and liberties restricted, your dignity stripped, and your rights ignored for a taillight. If your ok with that, then come back to this group and say “no harm, no foul”.

For everyone saying let’s wait to determine who is wrong, that’s cool. However, while we wait, should we shed all of the inconsistencies we already see.

1) how many officers, deputies, police personnel does it take to implement a traffic stop in the wonderful county of Loudoun/ Town of Leesburg? Does that number increase for minorities, magically?

2) Does every routine traffic stop include a K-9 unit and several other unmarked vehicles (or is that only reserved form minorities? And Is it done to give the impression to other non-minorities, that everything is under control and we’re handling these menacing minorities that love being involved in some sort of illegal activity?) Or, is it that this for the safety of minorities ? Who are far to often killed by uniformed officers. Is that standard in Loudoun county ? Somebody suggested something really bone headed, like they could have sent 30 police cars. They could have. And they also could have had a lynching too, right ?) Is there a large drug culture in this county? Or again is this the special treatment that only minorities get to experience?

3) if I am not arrested which one wouldn’t be for just a broken taillight. Why can’t I record the incident, if everything is being done in accordance with the law why not allow me to record it? Why is it that their (police) recording is deemed the grail when available, when absent we have to trust that they acted professionally and without prejudice. GTF*H.

4) when does having your car torn apart on the suspicion of drugs an ok thing, and how is that the same as having your home searched, they didn’t serve a warrant, which under normal circumstances could have been substantiated and vetted by a judge to look for anything. So unless they pulled up knowing they were going to tear apart a minorities car, I don’t think they brought anything with them to repair the damages that they inflicted. The irony in this is they said he had a broken tail light. They tore up his car far worse than just a taillight and that should just be excused and classified as a day as a black driver. Or should it fall under the associated cost of living in the county? Again GFOH.

5)last but not least, if this had happened to anyone, they’d be mad as red ants. They’d want whatever group they could find to advocate for them and to scream from the rooftops how unfair, bias an ultimately unnecessary this treatment was. The fact that you don’t want to see it as such because the person it happened to is a black man, is shameful and pathetic. Can’t we all agree injustice is wrong, it’s implied in the word. And isn’t subject to interpretation. Please don’t let your unwillingness to concede the blatant wrong in this situation and countless others (instances) be because of the inferiority you feel toward a group of people. Believe me even the racist people in this world, would be outraged at the inexcusable actions of these officers sworn to protect people (if they were doing this to people who looked and behaved liked them).

let’s all keep it 100% and agree that the taillight stop could have been legitimate. Unfortunately everything else afterwards subsequent detainment, illegal search and ransacking of the vehicle was totally uncalled for and unnecessary and only happened because they thought they’d they could get away with it. This is a result of them having gotten away with this type of behavior in the past. Clearly this wasn’t their first time running the old broken taillight routine.

gtrunner

There aren’t currently any regulations that state you can’t have so many personnel on the scene. The police are putting their lives in danger to protect life, property, and uphold the law. As long as they don’t violate my rights as a black man in America, however much backup they need to do to feel safe while enforcing the law seems reasonable.

I’ve been pulled over for a broken taillight and headlight. If only I just fixed my car.

Voltaire

gtrunner--you are spot on right with your comment.

EdMyers

Try calling all your friends to come by and take pictures and yell protests at the police the next time you are stopped for a broken taillight and see how the police respond. They will claim a unlawful assembly or something and start lobbing tear gas like in Portland.

Voltaire

EdMyers--that is a blanket characterization that is supported by no facts. Maybe if "peaceful protesters" would actually be peaceful and follow lawful commands, then maybe law enforcement would not have to "lobbing tear gas".

amerigirl

Volt, there are plenty of documented cases where there was no reason for the cops to be throwing tear gas. Like in front of St. John's or the prayer circle where they hit a 9 year old in the head. These are peaceful protesters.

Voltaire

AG—I believe that the activities surrounding the incident at St. John’s Church are under review. Therefore, I will let the system sort that matter out. However, there are also many instances where these demonstrations are anything but peaceful. Each demonstration is different and, yes, there are instances when law enforcement is required to use riot control munitions and techniques to disperse protesters who are engaged in unlawful activities.

LeesburgFan

Dbrown - It is very doubtful the vehicle was pulled over in the middle of a bright sunny day because a brake light was out on the stop-light free Rt. 7. That would probably usually be a nighttime infraction. No, there was some other suspicion going on here.

Yes, there is a drug problem in Loudoun......I've had 2 kids go thru high school here and they have seen it firsthand. There are gangs in Loudoun County, very dangerous ones, which have committed high profile murders which you would know if you read LTM or another local paper. It seems you want a pass, turn the cheek on criminality because of social injustice.......that's absolutely the wrong way to approach social injustice. You are doing more harm than good to the movement promoting abject lawlessness. NAACP and people like you have to stop DEMANDING things, unless you have a shred of evidence the cops acted improperly.

Barry Hussein

Who can I call if cops pull me over? Ghostbusters?

amerigirl

Request a supervisor.

drttp24

Have we reached the point in Loudoun County where liberalism has run amuck. Can the police not pull over an African American. And I thought removing the court house statue was supposed to solve our issues.

Lawman

Not for driving while Black. The statue is the side show. The real deal is eliminating the blanket qualified immunity for bad cops and making police unions liable for bad cops that they get put back on the streets. Once we change those standards, we will be satisfied for a few days, maybe.

amerigirl

Do you think having a faulty light means that a K9 unit needs to be called? That's profiling. You think a state solves problems? You don't know how deep this problem rums making you part of the problem. The statue is just a piece of what the problem is.

jbsets

Do you think that they would let me pet the puppy? Do they still use German shepherds? I love them. Grew up with them. Have one now. The Fairfax County K9 division trains them in the parking lot of my office morning before 9:00. Very cool.

Sorry I got off topic. [offtopic]

jbsets

No one has brought up politics.

*This is not intended to insult any person, to make a political statement conservative or liberal, or to comment on race, etc.

amerigirl

Is your entire world filled with blaming liberals for everything? If so a little soul searching might be required here. Life isn't just politics for most people and this has nothing to do with politics.

LoudounPulse

Somebody explain how you go from being stopped for a defective rear brake light to being investigated for drugs? I don't see the connection based on the LTM reporting. Or was LCSO following this guy for drug activity and found a reason to stop him?

When was the last time you've been stopped and they brought out the K9s and started searching for drugs?

amerigirl

It happened to my daughter-in-law. She is mostly Italian but looks very Latino. It was the same line, faulty rear light, they asked if they could search her car and she said no so they called a K9 unit. They told her the dog hit on the car which she never saw but when they waked her back toward the car the dog hit on her meds in her purse. Which she showed them. The whole thing was totally uncalled for. The dealership check her car and there was nothing wrong with the lights.

Barry Hussein

Did it happen to your daughter in law or in the "three other incidences where people of color were pulled over by Loudoun cops for the exact same reason" you mentioned in another comment? You have a great imagination

amerigirl

No my daughter n law was pulled over once and my friend was pulled over twice, You have no sense of reality on what really goes on.All 3 times warnings were issued and all 3 times they had it checked out and found out there was nothing wrong with the lights.

amerigirl

BTW can you comprehend that if I said a friend and a relative had been pulled over 3 times that it could not have bee just one of them?

Comment deleted.
Voltaire

Lawman--Do you have some evidence to back up this unsubstantiated claim? How do you know that it indeed "happens all the time"? Can you be everywhere in Loudoun County and observe this conduct? Doubtful.

DarkHelmet 1983

Isn't it interesting how easy it is in this age of social media and entitlement for certain individuals or groups to "demand" that things be done. I really do shake my head at the lunacy of our collective society at the present time. Pretty sad situation....

amerigirl

If you don't demand to have your rights protected somebody will try to take them away

Chris McHale

That sounds like the 2nd Amendment talking point.

ace10

Well played, Sir.

You are awarded one point for the victory.

amerigirl

They are already protected, the NRA makes sure of that. That's why the NAACP steps in

jbsets

Where did the 2nd amendment come from in this? I was going to say the common, "came out of left field," but am afraid that someone will jump on me for being a leftist. LOL

*This is solely my opinion. This is not intended to insult any person, to make a political statement conservative or liberal, or to comment on race, etc.

amerigirl

Ace, you think there is a winner or victory in this?

Voltaire

AG--I totally agree with you on this point.

Lawman

We ask politely and then we win elections and let our elected officials do our bidding. It’s the American way.

Chris McHale

By politely asking do you mean burning down businesses?

amerigirl

You're confusing peaceful protesters who are the majority to rioters who are getting all the attention and making it harder for the protesters to get their word out.

jbsets

What does destruction of property have to do with faulty tail lights and K9 units or the 2nd amendment for that matter.

Sometimes you guys confuse me.

*This is solely my opinion. This is not intended to insult any person, to make a political statement conservative or liberal, or to comment on race, etc.

Alex Jones

I saw this method of operation used on the popular reality tv show that was cancelled on A&E "Live PD". The officers all played the dog hit positive BS and began their search. My experience as a white guy has been horrendous with every encounter. One Loudoun officer has a reputation among his peers as an a**hole. Many of these law enforcement candidates are fresh off the New World Order battlefield and throw the Bill of Rights ( no longer taught ) to the wind. Young men educated in a godless socialist leaning school system, stuffed into the military and out on our streets is a recipe for disaster.

amerigirl

Exactly when did the stop teaching about the bill of rights? Wow on that last line what a humdinger of a conspiracy theory.

Voltaire

Alex Jones--Wow. I don't give a toss what was shown on Dan Abram's TV Program. The LAW is pretty clear concerning the use of drug sniffing dogs. The U.S. Supreme Court, held, in the case of Illinois v Caballes 543 U.S. 405 (2005), that the Fourth Amendment is not violated when the use of a drug-sniffing dog during a routine traffic stop does not unreasonably prolong the length of the stop. Further, it is within the stopping deputy sheriff/officer's right to request K9 support if the circumstances support the request. Another point, it is insulting to call a Deputy Sheriff an "officer". They are two entirely different types of law enforcement officer. If these deputies are out on patrol, then they cannot be considered "law enforcement candidates" as that would indicate that they are cadets. I am declining to comment on the last "statement".

AFF

Oh, they broke out the dog who's trained to respond to its' handler and has at best a 50/50 chance of finding what they're trained to look for?

It's amazing how many of the 'guvmint' out to get ya' crowd cowers when the man shows up.

Lawman

This is how it starts. Keep paying attention, you will see how the modern civil rights movement works. Almost every Black person in Loudoun County has personal story of or they know another Black person in this County who has had a bad encounter with the Loudoun County Sheriff‘s Department. You will now see a drum beat of complaints starting manifest along with a lack of action by our Republican Sheriff. Next the statistics on traffic stops by LCSD that are now required by State law will show a statistical prima facie pattern of racial profiling. And then the study will come back outlining the benefits of a move from a Sheriff to a Police Department. This study along with the reports of abuse and racial profiling will tip the scale. And it will all be televised. You see NBC 4 last night? This is how change occurs facts intersecting with reality. I bet you racist who thought this County would stay a white suburban utopia are having a fit. Lol

mopar19

Ha and when the reports come back saying more whites are pulled over and their is no systematic racism going on. Then what? Will it be the racist school system going to the online classes because blacks won’t have the same resources as whites. It will be the same story. No facts to support any of your statements. Just a wish list. So stay bitter and continue to post your nonsense and tell everyone to move to West Virginia.

Comment deleted.
Notalib

Identifying by race . Reported

Lawman

Of course more whites are pulled over, they are the largest population group, just like there are more white on food stamps and other welfare programs like farm aid. I ain’t bitter, Mike and his stooges are making the case for a Police Department. Black people will abide, we always do.

Voltaire

Lawman--your statement is incorrect. Farm aid is not a welfare program.

jbsets

Lawman: Am I am correct that what you actually mean is aid to farmers, such as bail outs? We wouldn't want anyone to take your statement literally such as the Farm Aid Festival that raise private funds for farmers. If I am wrong, please feel free to correct me....Lawman.

*This is solely my opinion. This is not intended to insult any person, to make a political statement conservative or liberal, or to comment on race, etc.

amerigirl

Volt, pretty sure Lawman means the Department of Agriculture $16 billion aid package for farmers, which includes $14.5 billion in direct payments given because of trumps trade war.

Voltaire

AG—OK. However, it still does not fall under public assistance programs and therefore cannot be considered to be welfare in the traditional sense. I have stated elsewhere in this comments section that there are those who consider Farm Aid to be a form of “corporate welfare” for agribusiness (Archer Daniels Midland, Bunge, Cargill, and Louis Dreyfus) but that still does not make it welfare in the traditionally sense. Given what the agriculture sector of this nation’s economy is going through, I think that they are entitled to some help as they did not ask for President Trump to initiate trade wars and couldn’t realistically predict the changing in agricultural commodity prices.

amerigirl

They don't have to be black. I can swear to 3 other incidences where people of color were pulled over by Loudoun cops for the exact same reason. faulty light. One born in Leesburg and the other who has been pulled over twice in NY. Both had it checked out and there was no problem with the brake or tail lights Looks like this is pretty common with the Loudoun sheriffs dept.

Raymond LuxuryYacht

“Looks like this is pretty common with the Loudoun Sheriff’s Dept.” Your anecdotes do not constitute a trend.

amerigirl

Ray how do you know it's not representative of a trend. If I alone know of 3 instances just how many more have happened But after talking to the person that was puled over twice she told me of at least 2 other that have been puled over with the same story. They are going to let the NAACP know and said they would sign affidavits.

Barry Hussein

It helps to have a Loudoun Times reporter looking for any reason to play the race card

Voltaire

Lawman--you do know that there is no such thing as the Loudoun County Sheriff's Department? That is a FACT. The Sheriff, as identified in the Code of Virginia, is a Constitutional Officer and his office is called a Sheriff's Office. There is NO sheriff's department within the entire Commonwealth of Virginia. I see you still like to make unsubstantiated blanket statements like the last statement.

jbsets

Oh come on. Really? You're really going to ding him on using the wrong word to describe the Sheriff's Office? Kinda like the Farm Aid comment when you knew darn well he meant the farm bail outs. You are so literal and I kinda think that you get off on it.

Voltaire

Jbsets--Oh come on what? Yes. It is clear as day wrong. The Commonwealth of Virginia does not have ANY Sheriff's Departments. Why? It is because the office of Sheriff is a Constitutional Officer (key word being Officer) and therefore the Sheriff runs an office. Go over to other states, like West Virginia, then yes, they do have a Sheriff's Department in all 55 counties. As for Farm Aid, no it does NOT meet the definition of public assistance. It may be judged as "corporate welfare" as it supports agribusiness interests such as Archer Daniels Midland, Bunge, Cargill, and Louis Dreyfus. But, NO, it is not public assistance so it cannot be called welfare. There is NOTHING wrong with being detailed oriented. As for your last "comment", that is subjective and I am not inclined to provide comment to it.

amerigirl

Do you not understand who he is talking about?

Voltaire

AG—Oh, I understand what he is talking about. However, his statement is still technically wrong and deserved the clarification that it received.

Loudoun Observer

Imagine if we had a police dept and this happened. It wouldn't, because Randall would have authority over them and one of her first orders would be that police are forbidden from stopping or engaging black people for any reason.

btm11

You are mistaken that the Board of Supervisors Chairperson would have authority over the police. They would report to the County Administrator.

LetSanityPrevail

And who does the country administrator report to and rely on for continuance of their position?

amerigirl

I got this from Wiki, Hope this explains what you wanted to know. The county administrator/manager, operating under the council-manager government form, was created in part to remove county government from the power of the political parties, and place management of the county into the hands of an outside expert who was usually a business manager or engineer, with the hope that the county manager would remain neutral to county politic

amerigirl

You don't understand how it works. Randall would not have authority over them. If you are going to make up scenarios you should get fact on how the system works first.

jbsets

AG - How do you deal with all of this with almost every article. I like you! [smile]

amerigirl

It is craziness and they like to gang up on me to. But it's nice to hear that you know where I'm coming from[wink][beam]

Jaws

In regards to FOIA request for body cameras. DC spends over $600,000 a year just having video redacted in order to share bodycam video with the public. That excludes the data storage of all video 24/7, 365 days a year(axon gives away body cams just so law enforcement uses their cloud storage on azure, those bills are way more than $600K annually). Oh, and the Government floats the bill because if you charge the public you can’t discriminate based on economic status. Defund the Police?

Instead of doing a study on our law enforcement. Let’s do a study on drivers impaired after ingesting THC that is readily available and now decriminalized in Virginia. Or do people drive better while on THC?

Raymond LuxuryYacht

I’d ask where is the article from the LTM calling out and coming BoS Supervisor Juli Briskman for her bigoted and incendiary Twitter post on July 22? Does LTM silence mean they condone a remark castigating an entire group of people?!

Jaws

She just finished her first class on how to lead. Isn’t that wonderful she took a class and is now ready to lead us in to the future.

After reading her tweets I would recommend she focus on local issues and not so much on all the National politics. We need a BOS to work on and look out for our county and not play follow the crowd.

DarkHelmet 1983

LOL...great comment. Briskman is a complete zero and a miserable person as well.

amerigirl

[offtopic]

JayZ

Well I hope you are without glaws as you like to cast river rocks at people

amerigirl

You seriously think they are going to answer you? Try calling Briskman's office 703-777-0204

Raymond LuxuryYacht

@amerigirl LTM is suppose to be the local paper of record. If a Supervisor does something untoward, yes I expect them to cover it in the same manner they reported on Zurn. Btw, I already contacted their social media page several days ago.

amerigirl

I couldn't find anything in any of the local news, patch, loudounnow, dcist, what was it?

Chris McHale

What did her Twitter post say?

amerigirl

Good question it's not on any other local news either. My guess is they don't cover twitter accounts.

Chris McHale

I was asking th he person who apparently read the Twitter post.

amerigirl

Chris, I was agreeing with your question.

Djfmer

So will every black person that has an incident with the LCSO now go the NAACP to have a complaint filed for them? Why can't a complaint be filed without the NAACP? Because they're stupid? Why can't the NAACP look inward to what they should be concerned about such as the lack of father's in the house. Stableizing black families instead of pointing fingers at everyone else for their problems.

Lawman

Because if you have not been paying attention the NAACP in Loudoun kicks tail. They keep the racist in check.

amerigirl

I believe it's called free lawyer. Other than they collect the data from incidents like this. What was his problem? It was the sheriffs dept. Your problem is think that people can't decide what they want their family to look like and if they don't want the man in the house that is their prerogative and not your business. Do you think families of soldiers killed in action are unstable?

JayZ

Good comment Amerigirl. The former comment was really nasty

JayZ

Nasty comment

Fiscalconservative

Michelle Thomas is quick to judge without having all the facts. I feel sorry for her parishioners who ask her for forgiveness.

amerigirl

Do you know what facts she has? Doubt it. You don't know if she is aware that pulling people over for a "faulty light" is a common complaint she gets or not.

Reagan warrior

Loudoun Co NAACP is blowing smoke. There was no wrong doing in this case.

Lawman

Watch and see, this will be the end of the sheriff’s department. Look at what the Loudoun NAACP has done since 2014. They get the job done.

Voltaire

Lawman--There is no such thing in Virginia as a Sheriff's Department. The Sheriff is a Constitutional Officer and his organization is a Sheriff's Office. However, in West Virginia, there are Sheriff's Departments for all the counties. BTW, the Governor says hi! [lol]

Chubbs

Mike Ramirez? I def went to school with him and his wife..from the way he acted in school it wouldn't be suprising, however I will deserve judgement until I recieve more information

Loudounest

There you go, this never happened while the statue was on the courthouse grounds!

amerigirl

Wrong

JayZ

Ha ha but it probably did and No one cared. At last we have started caring about the power of law enforcement!!

AshburnRez

Oh brother. Would be great if the LTM reported something other than a motorist getting off with a warning. Yawn.

amerigirl

sure after they tore his car apart causing damage to it.

Chad Davis

Where does the article mention any damage to the car?

amerigirl

You have to watch the video it is on that.

Voltaire

AG--then the individual can file a claim with the Loudoun County Government for reimbursement. If they don't provide him fair compensation, he can take the matter to small claims court (probably General District Court--civil division). That is the process. Unfortunately, property will get messed up when searches are conducted. It is pretty typical.

Notalib

Ok, he had a defective brake light. A K9 dog sniffed that drugs were in the car but there weren't. A warning was issued for the light, o fine issued, have a nice day. What's the problem?

amerigirl

And you believe that light was defective? Body cams will show if the dog actually hit or not. The problem is this seems to be a reoccurring problem.

Notalib

Bought a new car, had wrong tag on it, got pulled over, the officer came over and stuck his h eww ad in the window to see if he smelled alcohol. None smelled, dealership screwed up on tag, but guess what, I'm white.

The cops have a job to do, let them do.it.

amerigirl

Your one incident means what? That minorities aren't targeted? Wrong

Voltaire

AG--No, that just doesn't work. You cannot make a claim that ALL traffic stops involving minority motorists are "racially motivated/targeted".

amerigirl

Volt, did I say ALL? you are trying to make a point that doesn't exist.

W1709

Very strange that officers would pull over a vehicle that has a defective brake light during COVID-19. There must be more to the story.

btm11

Assuming that the tail light was broken before he was pulled over.

Voltaire

BTM11--Like to make conspiracy arguments? Your premise makes it sound like Sheriff Buford T. Justice was doing the traffic and "accidentally" broke the individual's light.

amerigirl

Well? Like I said there was nothing wrong with the lights of the people I know that were pulled over, and it was verified with a dealership and a repair shop.

smbna

There are some amazing and honorable Loudoun County Deputies. There are also plenty of unethical and crooked Deputies. These law enforcement officers sound like they are as crooked as their Drug Dog's hind leg. Speaking of which, drug dogs are notoriously unreliable. By the way, what reason did they have for calling for a drug dog when there was no indication of drugs? Bring the dog and the police videos to court.

Whoever is lying - should go to jail. The Sheriff's Department's statement on the incident sound like utter nonsense.

Voltaire

Smbna--Why do we need to have a trial in the Circuit Court of Loudoun County when posters, such as yourself, have already determined that the stop was improper and determining guilt? We can save the taxpayers a whole lot of time and money, no? BTW, there are no Sheriff's Departments in Virginia. The Sheriff is a Constitutional Officer and his organization is an office, not a department.

mrv52

"We demand"

Expletive you.

chrisnich

Remember that this is the same NAACP chapter that shouted "Racial profiling!" when [then] president Phillip Thompson was cited for blowing through a stop sign....by an African American sheriff's deputy. See what happens when you cry "Wolf!" too many times?

Lawman

Yep and that deputy got disciplined. Facts dude pay attention. He came after that statue it’s gone.

chrisnich

According to court records, Thompson plead GUILTY. Please point to ANY evidence you have that the deputy was disciplined for this routine stop. Facts, dud, Lawman! We'll see how this latest case plays out. But my initial gut impression is that it's another false step on the LC-NAACP's quest for relevance.

Lawman

Statue advocated against gone, Betty removed from positions in LCPS, Attorney General’s Office investigating LCPS, Belmont Cemetery turned over to Freedom Center, Leesburg Diversity Commission established, diversity office established at LCPS, Black Judge Loudoun, who runs the County, Howardsville homeowner water system being built, Leesburg Black Chief of police hired, Purcellville Black mayor, another Black Town council members, Sheriff’s Department has hired and promoted numerous AA, Leesburg went from 6 to over 20 hires, Loudoun County hires, the list goes on. Just Google Loudoun County NAACP and take the next two days reading articles about its irrelevancy. Lol.

amerigirl

Lets see what happens when the cops have used the defective light excuse too many times

mopar19

So what law did the officers break. Oh none. I’m just surprised that the police are still doing any work at all. Maybe they should suspend them so the will finally realize that in today’s climate it not worth doing a single thing. Come in go home get a retirement.

amerigirl

Break? Other than the law by telling him he couldn’t record the stop and he did not give them permission to search the car but they did? They tore the lining to his trunk and pulled the seats out of the car and left them. And he wants them to pay for it. When he asked one of the deputies why the LCSO needed five cars for a traffic stop involving a defective brake light. "Because we're allowed to," the deputy responded.

mopar19

Once the dog hits on the car they don’t need his permission to search the car. Second they could have had 30 cars respond. Third when a search is conducted in a car or in a house the police do not need to go back and clean up. Lastly when you are stopped during a traffic stop and outside of the car In police custody you no longer have the right to videotape. Anything else amergirl. Contact the Supreme Court to file your grievances. Besides his feelings being hurt no laws broken here.

amerigirl

If he wasn't racially profiled why was the dog even there? A new law went into effect in Virginia 7/1/20 to prohibit law enforcement officers from engaging in biased profiling during traffic stops.

So you are alright using tax payers money to send 30 cars to a malfunctioning tail light? that's a god reason to change to a police dept. Third you can file for damages. Fourth he was told that he couldn't video before he exited the car and was told no because they had a dash cam on. You think you know everything but you need to be educated.

amerigirl

Anything else?

Chad Davis

He said they fixed it on the video for anything that was removed as part of the search. There is no evidence that they tore the lining out of the trunk or removed seats and left them.

amerigirl

No he showed the damage and said they took apart my trunk and didn't fix that, you can see the lining hanging down.

mopar19

The officers had reasonable suspicion which is all they need the dog hit on the car. Not sure where you get racial bias from. The officers already working and getting paid so there is no additional tax dollars. A stop means you are not free to leave therefore being temporarily detained hence not able to video. They could have placed him in cuffs if they wanted. So once again amergirl what law was broken. Feelings don’t count.

amerigirl

mo, if you read my reply you will see what law was broken. The new profiling law went into effect in Virginia 7/1 and denying his right to film it. My feeling is you can’t read and comprehend.

Chad Davis

Correction: you are right, he said "didn't fix" them for the lining of the trunk. Where did he says the seats were removed and left out though?

amerigirl

It was in Loudounnow "Smith said he did not consent to a search and that the deputies tore his back seat apart and left it that way. Smith said the deputies told him he could not film the interaction—although filming law enforcement officers in public is legal, and he was able to film a portion of it."

Voltaire

AG—There is nothing in the article to support the premise that there was “racial profiling.” The Deputy Sheriff stopped the suspect’s vehicle and, based upon the circumstances at the scene of the traffic stop, “reasonably” determined that there may be drugs in the car. He/she is allowed to call for a K9 Unit. The courts have held that a “…trained K9 to sniff the ‘air’ around the outside of a lawfully stopped motor vehicle is NOT considered a search.” It must be done within a reasonable amount of time. A positive aleart from the K9, as been stated elsewhere in this comments section, give you probable cause to search the vehicle. I believe that sending 30 units to an incident scene would be a little overdramatization, no? They had five units. That would be the (1) original stopping deputy, (2-3) backup deputies, (4) deputy’s sergeant (supervisor), (5) K9 Unit. Calling for backup is appropriate in many different circumstances. Sometimes the Deputy/Officer needs specially trained personnel or specialized equipment. Sometimes the Deputy/Officer just need another officer or two and sometimes the Deputy/Officer might need advice or guidance from someone who is more knowledgeable or experienced.

Mopar19’s point about detaining a suspect is correct. The U.S. Supreme Court in Pennsylvania v. Mimms, 434 U.S. 106 (1977) ruled that a police officer may order occupants (driver and passengers) out of a vehicle once it has been detained for a traffic violation under a reasonable suspicion standard. The reasoning flows from the U.S. Supreme Court case Terry v. Ohio 392 U.S. 1 (1968) and is based on officer safety. Further, the act of stepping out of the car isn’t inherently a search and doesn’t implicate the suspect’s Fourth amendment rights. Furthermore, once pulled over, the suspect is already “stopped” and there is little reason to prevent officers from taking what is interpreted by the courts as a safety measure (again, see Terry v.Ohio ) Once pulled over, officers have a wide latitude to temporarily limit the suspect’s mobility during an investigatory stop for the suspect’s and the deputy’s safety.

You are right about reimbursement for damages committed during the police search of a vehicle. The individual can file a claim with the law enforcement agency that made the stop or the government office that oversees them. They may pay the claim, negotiate the claim with you for an amount. If that fails, then the suspect could file a claim in small claims court.

amerigirl

Nothing in the article about “racial profiling”, that is what the article is about. What circumstances at the scene would make them think there were drugs? Because the guy was black? You said “trained K9 to sniff the ‘air’ around the outside of a lawfully stopped motor”, and what determines lawfully stopped? If he lied about the light, was he lawfully stopped? When they pulled my friend over on Sterling Blvd they had their hands on their guns and were yelling to keep her hand on the steering wheel when she was getting the registration that another cop had asked for. Truthfully, she said she feared for her life. Is that what should happen for a faulty light? is arguing about what they can lawfully do in a traffic stop but was the stop actually profiling. I never said there was a problem about asking someone to step out of the car. You can cite all the cases in the world that you want but that doesn’t mean that it wasn’t racially motivated.

Voltaire

AG—No, you cannot make the claim that the suspect in this case was stopped because “he was black”. There is no evidence in the article to prove that point. The claim of “racial profiling” is an allegation being made by the NAACP. If there was a faulty light, then, yes that would be a lawful stop as a faulty light is violation of law. According to the Law (Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968)), a traffic stop is considered reasonable and therefore legal if law enforcement have the following: (1) a legitimate reason (called “reasonable suspicion”) for stopping the motorist in the first place and (2) conduct the roadside detention in a reasonable manner. “Reasonable suspicion” means an objectively reasonable basis (more than a hunch). To answer your question, the response by law enforcement would be dependent on a multitude of variables. You cannot say that ALL traffic stops are “racially motivated” as that premise is false. However, you would be correct in challenging me if I said that ALL traffic stops were properly done in accordance with applicable law/internal policies as there are cases that show that my statement would not be correct either.

amerigirl

Volt, I didn’t say it was my claim nor did I say that the outcome has been reached that it was or wasn’t racial profiling. That is what the article is about. Listen to the video in the article, he repeatedly claims that. You can use all the legal mumbo jumbo to defend their actions but that has yet to be decided. Again, where are you coming up with me saying “ALL” about anything, that did not happen. It’s the line like “You cannot say that ALL traffic stops are “racially motivated” as that premise is false.” Which I have never and would never say, so please stop portraying me as if I did.

Voltaire

AG—the individual who was stopped can claim anything he wants. The proper administrative/judiciary venues will decide whether the individual’s “allegation” is warranted or not. I hate to break it to you but this country was founded on the rule of LAW. What you call “legal mumbo jumbo” is the established case precedent that is the foundation of the legal system and is used by law enforcement/judiciary in the performance of their duties. Several instances in this site, you have made the mention that there were multiple incidents of this “alleged” behavior. Therefore, it is important to clarify that it is not ALL instances and it is wrong to make the characterization either directly or implied as that is not factually accurate.

Loudoun4Trump

When the NAACP look into the dereliction of duty in inner city schools let me know......until then -- dont really care about the victimhood claims that more often than not turn out to be hoaxes....like the amita restaurant worker who claims someone wrote a racist remark on her receipt....when you cry wolf so often, don't expect people to line up to accept the lie....

antennaTV

“We demand the immediate independent investigation and termination of all LCSO deputies involved in the racial profiling and harassment of Mr. Smith,” NAACP officials said in a prepared statement.

Come on NAACP officials. You have got to be kidding! Looks like LCSO did their job and a warning was issued for the tail light. Why do you jump right to racial profiling allegations? I am sure many of us in Loudoun are thankful LCSO employees are doing their job. Let's not stick our heads in the sand and pretend drugs aren't a problem. Why not be safe and check it out. That is what they did and Mr. Smith was on his way with a warning for a tail light. Quit trying to make something out of nothing. Why don't you go collaborate with LCSO before you start calling for resignations?

stopit

why doesn't the sheriff share the body cam videos so we can see that point of view?

amerigirl

The NAACP is demanding the footage.

Voltaire

Stopit--it would be considered evidence in an investigation so I would doubt that they would turn it over until the investigation is complete.

Jaws

Sounds lime the NAACP and the BOS have some sort of plan. They are not being very tactful about there plan to bring a police department under control of the BOS.

LeesburgFan

NAACP needs to lighten up. The car could have matched a drug criminal's make and model or color. The dog evidently was onto some type of unusual scent. Maybe NAACP wants to file a complaint with the Veterinary Association.......idk. Cops aren't going to ignore that, let them do their jobs. The gentleman was given a warning about a safety issue. Hopefully he gets the brake light fixed before some innocent driver with kids in the car rear-ends him at night. No harm, no foul. This is law enforcement in America, thank God.

amerigirl

Do you think a cop would ask to search your car for a light?

Voltaire

AG--depending on the circumstances it is possible. In the case of Illinois v Caballes 543 U.S. 405 (2005), an individual was stopped by the Illinois State Police trooper for speeding and subsequently underwent a search of the vehicle by the anti-narcotics officer using a K9. The U.S. Supreme Court found that search to be proper.

amerigirl

Speeding can be verified. The people I know can verify that there was nothing wrong with their lights as they were checked out by a dealership and repair shop.

jke

Keep your junk car off our roads. If the dog says search you search I trust the dog more than Philipps!

amerigirl

Maybe you should wait for the body cams and see if the dog actually hit on anything.

LeesburgFan

Maybe the NAACP and this driver should wait to learn the facts about this stop and what gave rise to the search, before running to the media and DEMANDING people get fired. Totally unreasonable and downright offensive manner in which they are conducting themselves. If they would take a measured and thoughtful approach, they would get better results and win citizens to their cause. EXTREME knee jerk reactions before any facts are on the table are going to have opposite effects towards their movement for social justice.

Virginia SGP

So let me get this straight. A K9 sniffed drugs and the NAACP is upset the car was searched?

Have you ever listened to Jay-Z's 99 Problems? Do you realize Jay-Z acknowledged he was carrying drugs at the time of the stop? Are the sheriff deputies not allowed to search or arrest anybody if they are black now?

stopit

have you ever listened to Pastor Michelle Thomas? do you EVER shut up and listen??

Chris McHale

I believe it was Run DMC who wrote "You Talk Too Much".

Virginia SGP

Are you saying Michelle Thomas should shut up and listen? Or that she has never shut up and listened?

AreYouKidding

K9 units have often been used to justify harassment by law enforcement. Bring a K9 in, the officer gives a signal to the K9 which then indicates a hit and the officer now has justification to perform a search.

LeesburgFan

Fair point. There were multiple officers at the scene, so this is easily solved. Sit down with each officer individually, see if there's corroboration about what the dog's actions really were, how the dog went about his business that it is highly trained for. Ultimately, if the car or the driver matched a drug dealer on an ongoing investigation, then there was still sufficient reason to do the search.

Voltaire

LeesburgFan--what exactly would the point be in interviewing each Deputy? The stopping Deputy would have written up an incident report that outlines what transpired. There is a question being raised by the NAACP so it would be logical that the Internal Affairs unit in the Sheriff's Office would be handling the review and would do this as part of the practice. BTW, concerning the use of K9, the U.S. Supreme Court, has established case precedent that the use of the K9, as described in the article, was proper. In Illinois v Caballes 543 U.S. 405 (2005), an individual was stopped by the Illinois State Police trooper for speeding and subsequently underwent a search of the vehicle by the anti-narcotics officer using a K9. The U.S. Supreme Court found that search to be proper. There is one final point. It is insulting to call a Deputy Sheriff an "officer."

Dbrown10453

Investigation implies you’ve investigated. Not randomly stopping people who fit a description. You have photos, names license plate numbers, that’s an investigation. Maybe if they stopped sending so many cars to traffic stops they would have been able to learn and get that part right. Instead the said something utterly stupid when being questioned by the person that they thought was just going to be a sheep led to slaughter. Now they’ll learn to come up with a better line next time.

LeesburgFan

Voltaire - There were multiple cops that responded, why would the sherriff's Office not get statements from all of them? Some might have arrived 15 - 20 minutes after the initial officers and have little to offer. But are you suggesting all Officers who may have information about this (or any) stop not be asked what each saw? BTW, tell the Traffic Court Judge it's an insult to address a deputy as an "officer". Happens all the time. "Officer" is a generic term used in law enforcement, much like the term "doctor" or "counselor".

Voltaire

LeesburgFan—If you had read my initial comment, I stated that “…There is a question being raised by the NAACP so it would be logical that the Internal Affairs unit in the Sheriff's Office would be handling the review and would do this as part of the practice. Of course, in the internal inquiry, the responsible investigating agency, such as an Internal Affairs unit, would interview all relevant witnesses. Multiple cops? I saw that there were five Sheriff’s units. There were no cops. They were Deputy Sheriffs. I did not see any Town or municipal police or Virginia State Police. Most jurists (trial and appellate level) that I know will refer to Deputy Sheriffs by their official title and not call them “Officer” as an Officer is a municipal law enforcement job. It is equally disrespectful to call a State Trooper a “Officer”. I don’t give a toss if it is “generic” it is still wrong.

Voltaire

DBrown10453—Really? I would never have deduced that the word investigation implied that “you’ve investigated”. Wow, I am oh so glad that you provided some enlightenment on that topic. No? Get real. Your premise concerning the dispatch of “so many cars” is wrong. As I have stated elsewhere in this comment section, the calling for backup Calling for backup is appropriate in many different circumstances. Sometimes the Deputy/Officer needs specially trained personnel or specialized equipment. Sometimes the Deputy/Officer just need another officer or two and sometimes the Deputy/Officer might need advice or guidance from someone who is more knowledgeable or experienced. You cannot make a generalized statement like what you stated as each traffic stop is different and will have different variables that will require different types of assets (backup officers, a supervisor, specialized units, etc.). The rest of your “statement” is subjective conjecture.

amerigirl

Or use the handlers body cam.

LeesburgFan

Voltaire - please get off your high horse. If your profession is really Finance, then why would you possibly be the judge and jury between what's right, wrong and insulting by the use of the term "officer"? Let's let actual law enforcement opine if they are in any way insulted by the term "officer".....smh.

Voltaire

LeesburgFan—Make me. As I have said, I have family and friends who ARE jurists (both trial court and appellate court level) and they TOLD me that you were incorrect. In addition, my relatives who are IN law enforcement also told me the same thing. Want to argue with them? Go ahead. Otherwise, grow up.

LeesburgFan

Voltaire - you want to debate the triviality of how to properly address a member of law enforcement, and I'm supposed to grow up?!! Take a look in the mirror buddy.

Voltaire

LeesburgFan--It is not trivial to those who work that job. As to your last "statement" it is noted and properly ignored. As the British say, get stuffed.

Voltaire

AreYouKidding--do you have any evidence to support that unsubstantiated conspiracy theory? The U.S. Supreme Court have held that it is lawful for a K9 unit to sniff the air outside the suspected car to determine if there are narcotics in the vehicle.

Dbrown10453

Suspected of what...driving a vehicle while black? What is the suspicion, and typically don’t we have to engage in some sort of transaction for their to be suspicious grounds. So why were they already on the scene? Sounds to me like they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar. If they had no suspicion in the first place and disobey your denial for search then you conveniently have a “drug” sniffing dog onsite to conduct a search. Because requesting one for no probable cause would be denied. What seems suspicious is this whole story. Mr. Smith if you see this, keep your proverbial knee on their neck until you get justice. Every shred of it.

Voltaire

DBrown10453—In Illinois v. Caballes, 543 U.S. 405 (2005), the Supreme Court held that that the Fourth Amendment is not violated when the use of a drug-sniffing dog during a routine traffic stop does not unreasonably prolong the length of the stop. This case had NOTHING to do with the race/ethnicity of the driver. In this case, an Illinois State Police trooper stopped Roy Caballes for speeding on an interstate highway. When the trooper reported the stop to his headquarters, a member of the state police's drug interdiction squad overheard the report and proceeded to the location of the stop. When the drug officer arrived, Caballes was in the trooper's car while the trooper was writing out a warning ticket. The drug officer walked his drug-sniffing dog around Caballes' car, and the dog alerted at the trunk. Inside the trunk, the officers found marijuana.. The whole episode lasted less than 10 minutes. As previously stated, the U.S. Supreme Court found that to be lawful. The rest of your “statement” is conjecture.

amerigirl

The Supreme Court has also held that the use of the dog is not a search, the length of a warrantless stop must be reasonable. The officer can’t delay the driver forever.The suspect has a time line recorded.the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit held in United States v. Rodriguez that seven to eight minutes is de minimis. On the other hand, the Supreme Court of Nevada held a few months ago in State v. Beckman that nine minutes is too long.If you think there is no such thing as false alerts by dogs please watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1TPGcWiU6w&feature=emb_logo

Voltaire

AG—you are correct. You are also correct concerning the reliability of K9 units. They, like other tools in law enforcement are not 100% infallible. They make mistakes too. I don’t think that I am disputing that point. I was citing the Illinois v. Caballes case as Dbrown10453 asked for what was “suspected” that led to the search of the car by the Illinois State Police.

JayZ

I have you actually read jay z’s post ? She is not a man and was not carrying drugs or alcohol. Not black either. I also tutor in reading

Voltaire

Jay-Z—you might want to think twice before making snide comments concerning people’s skills/abilities. You may also want to consider a refresher in the usage of the Queen’s English. The first sentence is wrong. It should read as follows: “Have you actually read Jay Z’s post?”

sleezburg

So a Jay-Z song is the standard now? You folks are so racist you will come up with the most asinine response in the world. How does a Jay-Z song have any relevance to this stop? Unless you are implying that all Black Men are representative of this Jay-Z song? I have a feeling that's exactly what it is.

amerigirl

Where are you getting that from? I see 1 problem, not 99, or do you mean K9? The cops shouldn't make up stories of malfunctioning light to stop people of color. If you have friends that are ask them how many times they have been pulled over with the same story.

Voltaire

AG--I believe that sleezburg is referring to the initial post from Virginia SGP that cited a Jay Z "song".

Chris McHale

We demand an independent investigation AND the termination of the officers involved". Does anyone see what is wrong with that statement?

This is a case that I agree a citizens review board would be helpful, provided those citizens checked their pro/anti views at the door. LCSO said it was part of an ongoing investigation. Does that mean they believe the vehicle or person driving was involved in drug trafficking? Was the K9 properly trained, did he hit on the smell of drugs that may have been in the car but were removed prior or was it a false hit? Many questions to be answered.

Voltaire

Chris McHale--No, a Citizens Review Board (CRB) wouldn't be very helpful at all. There have been surveys of civilian review boards across the country and the studies found them to be vulnerable to political manipulations, inadequate funding and staffing, slow-moving investigations and a lack of authority or jurisdiction to meaningfully investigate complaints.

EdMyers

Spend some of that money and training for a CRB and the problems disappear. Put deadlines on investigations and punishment for LEO stonewalling and you can fix the problems. If the police don't want accountability, however, hindering the CRB is a good way for them to sabotage the process.

Voltaire

EdMyers—No, those problems don’t disappear if you throw money and training. I will provide you with an illustration. According to PBS’s Frontline program, The Office of Citizen Complaints (OCC) in the City and County of San Francisco, formed by a ballot initiative in 1982, made San Francisco an early adopter. However, a review by the city’s controller’s office found that the office failed to complete investigations within nine months in 53% of the cases and that left potential prosecutions at risk under the law as authorities, in most cases have just 12 months to file charges. A former OCC official, Barbara Attard stated that the problems existed from the OCC’s beginning. There was a lack of political will to support the commission. The agency’ was vastly underfunded due to politics. The ACLU of Northern California stated that the COC often fails to fight for cases where it found misconduct and recommended discipline, only for the police department to issue a slap on the wrist. The OCC also doesn’t get the final say in discipline. The Police Chief and the Police Commission hold that authority. So, to answer your question, it is dependent on whether the political class of Loudoun County want to exert themselves and do this or not. If they do the way that they do most things in this county, then we will get the San Francisco experience. However, according to a nationwide study, Washington D.C. has a good template, with all of the qualities that you cited in your comment Ed, for a CRB but that requires do a little work and exhibiting leadership neither qualities are on public display from the Loudoun County Board of Supervisors. You are right though in that it will require cooperation from the responsible law enforcement agency.

sleezburg

Voltaire- Are you implying that political manipulations only happen at the civilian review boards? These same political manipulations do not happen in Sheriffs Depts and courthouses?

Voltaire

Sleezburg---No. I was directly answering the question about the effectiveness of the Citizen Review Board (CRB). The verdict on CRBs is mixed. However, yes, you are most definitely correct in that the same political manipulations do happen within Sheriff's Offices and courthouses too.

Dbrown10453

Well if it was part of an investigation, wouldn’t that blunder of not finding any drugs have ruined that entire effort ??? Seems a little foolish. There’s an investigation into something, they we’re just going to trash that and get him on a taillight charge.....[yawn][yawn][yawn][yawn][yawn][yawn][yawn][yawn][yawn][yawn][sneaky]

David Dickinson

"We demand the immediate independent investigation and termination of all LCSO deputies involved in the racial profiling and harassment of Mr. Smith"

Why bother with an investigation if everyone should be immediately terminated?

I have a feeling the NAACP will be harassing the LCSO for a long time.

Comment deleted.
FCPS educator

Based on what facts - please cite studies and research relating to LCSO- or you are just going with emotion and no facts and logic

Comment deleted.
amerigirl

FCPS sure they do studies on that, DUH It will come out though, let the studies begin

KK153

LTM's race based click bait of the day..

chrisnich

Yup. And an inordinate number of these seem to be written by Nathaniel Cline. I don't blame the reporter as much as his editor who keeps assigning or approving these stories. But Mr. Cline's groove is quickly turning into a rut.

amerigirl

Funny it's in the dcist, Patch and Loudounnow too.

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