“I Can’t Breathe” Walk Through Leesburg | Confederate Statute

Protesters surrounded the Confederate statue on the grounds of the Loudoun County Courthouse May 31 in honor of George Floyd, a black man killed by a Minneapolis police officer earlier last week.

With renewed calls to remove Confederate monuments from public spaces amid heightened attention on racial injustice, the monument in Leesburg is again a topic of debate. Loudoun County Board of Supervisors Chairwoman Phyllis Randall (D-At Large) recently discussed the issue with the Times-Mirror.

The issue: Virginia has long prohibited any changes to Confederate monuments or war memorials … but that will soon change.

County leaders have long been torn over whether to keep or remove Leesburg’s Confederate statue. The statue, erected in 1908, rests in front of the Loudoun County Courthouse and can be seen at the corner of North King and East Market streets.

Virginia localities do not yet have the authority to make any decisions on removal because the commonwealth prohibits such actions. Virginia is home to more than 200 public memorials to the Confederacy, according to state officials.

Mark your calendar for July 1, when localities gain control.

Localities in Virginia will have the ability to remove, relocate or contextualize the monuments in their communities starting July 1.

This year's Senate Bill 183 and House Bill 1537, sponsored by Sen.  Mamie Locke (D-2nd) and Del. Delores McQuinn  (D-70th), respectively, overturned the state’s prohibition on the removal of Confederate war memorials.

On April  11, Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam (D) signed the measures into law after the new Democratic-led General Assembly passed the bills. Most new laws in the commonwealth go into effect July 1.

Tune in on July 7. Chairwoman Randall and the Board of Supervisors may send statue discussion to public hearing.

Randall told the Times-Mirror she will bring forward an informational item to the Board of Supervisors focused on all of the bills passed by the General Assembly that give localities more governance options.

Among those, Randall said there may be a motion to send the discussion of the Leesburg Confederate statue to a public hearing, which is required under the new law. The public hearing would be scheduled for September because the board is in its regularly scheduled recess in August.

The first public hearing scheduled after August is Sept. 9 at 6 p.m.

The future could rest on Loudoun’s new Democratic control.

Similar to the General Assembly, the Loudoun County Board of Supervisors flipped to Democratic control in January. Based on a 2017 Q&A, three of the five returning supervisors  — all  Democrats  —  supported the idea of moving the statue. Republican supervisors Matthew Letourneau (R-Dulles) and Tony Buffington (R-Blue Ridge) would not say definitively.

Democrats in Virginia have generally been seen to support the removal of symbols of and monuments to the Confederacy from public spaces.

Letourneau previously said it was premature for the county to consider the issue given the state prohibition. Were the county to be granted authority, Letourneau and Buffington said they would like more context added around the current statue.

What are Loudoun’s options?

Keep the statue in its place, remove it, relocate it or add more context around it. Those are the decisions that will come before the board after its August  break. 

Randall said if the board does choose to remove it and it's not claimed, the county could end up storing it.

Randall’s take on the process.

“It's really important to me that the process that is in place for the county plays out,” Randall said. “I do not want -- and I would be very upset -- to see the statute in any way defaced or harmed in any way, and I believe the process should play out.”

Looking ahead based on past votes.

In February, the board voiced its support of renaming an area of Sterling long known as Negro Hill to Nokes Hill. 

As Vice Chairman Koran Saines (D-Sterling) said, “This will help Loudoun out as we move from our dark past into a brighter future where we will heal the wounds of history as a united community.”

With this example, there's a strong case that the board will advance the process to remove the statue.

With nationwide interest in tackling institutional racism in Virginia -- as recent protests have shown -- it’s hard to imagine the Democratic-led board would be at odds with removal.

(341) comments

SW

Let’s take these confederate soldier statues down since we know what they fought for was wrong. Replace it with a great freedom fighter from history. Somebody who fought against slavery. Let’s replace this one with a statue of Nat Turner. He was a very brave freedom fighter and we haven’t honored his bravery to fight for what was right enough.

amerigirl

I agree, but why does it even have to be replaced with another statue? How about a fountain? If it has to be a statue put something there that symbolizes justice like Lady Justice.

Jeanne T

Nancy Pelosi said, "Monuments to men who advocated cruelty and barbarism to achieve such a plainly racist end are a grotesque affront to these ideals. Their statues pay homage to hate, not heritage. They must be removed.”

But there is a certain statue in Baltimore's Wyman Park, the Stonewall Jackson and Robert E. Lee Monument. As mayor of Baltimore in 1948, Pelosi's father, Thomas D’Alesandro, Jr., oversaw the dedication of this statue. As reported in the Baltimore Sun, Mayor D'Alesandro said at the dedication ceremony that people could look to Jackson’s and Lee’s lives as inspiration and urged Americans to “emulate Jackson’s example and stand like a stone wall against aggression in any form that would seek to destroy the liberty of the world", adding that, “World Wars I and II found the North and South fighting for a common cause, and the generalship and military science displayed by these two great men in the War between the States lived on and were applied in the military plans of our nation in Europe and the Pacific areas,”

Will Speaker Pelosi repudiate her father's words as racist and demand the statue be removed? Or will she observe the Mafia's tradition of omertà?

amerigirl

As it was noted in many media overages what D’Alesandro said was just a speech and everyone knew the didn’t feel that way, but when it came to Gov, it was a whole different story.

Guest

Stop defending the indefensible, you mor0nic democrat (redundant).

Jeanne T

Ah, just a speech. Alright, then. So you don't think it should be taken down.

amerigirl

I do think it should be taken down, put it in a museum or something.

Jeanne T

And it's YOU who should do your research on Martin Gugino. This isn't about what the President said about him.

amerigirl

I really am tired of trying to figure out what you are talking about when you won't make a statement just some obscure reference to someone with no background or thoughts about it. Please fill me in what about him bothers you? What is the something you are talking about.

pual mase

If it was Trump, AG would be crying LIe. Lie , Lie.

If its a dem “it just a speech”.

Hypocrite!

amerigirl

Again a nonsensical statement just to try to put someone down. So sad for you. You didn't even read it did you? Nope, you were too busy trying to bully someone little man. I didn't say that the media did.

Guest

Amerigirl

You referenced the statement as your counter argument. Take ownership for your own statements instead of name calling and people wouldn’t think you are such an annoying twit.

Jeanne T

"I really am tired of trying to figure out what you are talking about "

That's your problem, amerigirl. I can't help you.

amerigirl

Then please tell me what "And it's YOU who should do your research on Martin Gugino" even mean. Do you disagree with something or what? That would be anyone's problem that is trying to make sense of the comment.

Jeanne T

"If she could, yes. But that is not up to the federal govt, it is up to the state govts."

BS. Pelosi should be addressing this. Stop passing the buck. Are you really that dense?

amerigirl

Are you insane? There are laws and those laws are state laws. She is a federal employee not a state employee. What is wrong with you that you can't comprehend that? As a federal employee she should never say what a state government should or should not do, in a state that she is not representing.

Guest

Nancy needs to denounce her father for the racist he was

Guest

Will Pelosi support removing her racist father”s tombstone?

amerigirl

What does that even mean? Grasping at straws?

amerigirl

Good thing that is only your opinion. Who should denounce you?

jke

They are American Veteran Monuments. Congress declared all soldiers of the Civil War American veterans.

It's heritage not hate. The civil war began over northern aggression not slavery. Slavery was the right that made might and allowed the northern aggressors to get assistance from Russia.There are 2 dead Yankees for every dead Confederate. When Lincoln declared his proclamation emancipation it only freed the slaves of his enemies not his allies. These are facts that are no longer being taught in public schools (Indoctrination camps) which has led to the dumbing down and ignorance of American citizens.

Lawman

Jke man you must of flunked US History or just be plain ignorant. But that’s ok because the BOS will be proposing a new plan to move you and other history challenged folks out of Loudoun so you stop polluting our progressive air. Oh yeah this Revolution must be televised!!

Guest

"Must of flunked" - Lawman

amerigirl

Southern thing along with 'musta', my northern relatives made fun of me for using the term as a child. Along with y'all or all y'all, or saying 'hey' for hello.

Jeanne T

I believe it's you who is ignorant of history. And you have no power to evict anyone from anywhere.

amerigirl

plan is not power, other than that I agree with you.

Guest

Lawman are you as stupid as you sound ?

Please don’t reproduce. There is enough vermin on the streets.

Guest

Your heritage is treason, and you're okay with that? Good to know. Don't apply for a government job.

Voltaire

Guest--nope, people who are Southerners can and do apply for Government jobs. They even are hired by the Government. Shocking isn't it? Get real.

RolandNC1

Think about the following scenario. In the not so distant past, an African American led an uprising against the United States of America citing state's rights to enslave Irish immigrants. The uprising was put down by the United States military, yet descendants invested in memorials to this leader. What would you think about the message that sends to patriots and members of the enslaved Irish community?

amerigirl

Please cite your sources. The only thing I could find was on Wikipedia saying that The myth has been spread on white nationalist message boards, neo-Nazi websites, the far-right conspiracy website InfoWars, and has been shared millions of times on Facebook.

amerigirl

They are not. They are memorials to people who fought against the US. And US soldiers. As I have said before you really need to fact check before you make statements. If you read the Ordinance of Secession, it says that they were against Lincoln being elected because he wanted to end slavery. In 1868, President Andrew Johnson pardoned Confederate soldiers, but did not grant them U.S. veteran status. Public Law 85-425 was passed 23 May 1958, entitling the widows of deceased Confederate soldiers, the few left by 1958, to military pensions. No portion of the law appears to confer any privilege other than markers for graves of Confederate soldiers, nor does it grant Confederate soldiers status equal to those of veterans of the United States military. The Emancipation Proclamation did not apply to enslaved people in the border states of Missouri, Kentucky, Delaware, and Maryland, which had not joined the Confederacy, not the ones that were his allies. Lincoln exempted the border states from the proclamation because he didn't want to tempt them into joining the Confederacy. Because the proclamation was a temporary war measure, it later had to be codified into law with the 13th Amendment to the Constitution. Congress officially outlawed slavery when it passed the Thirteenth Amendment in January, 1865. The real facts are being taught in school, not the conspiracy theory that started online later that you have proposed. The dumbing of America started with conspiracy theory you mentioned in August of 2017

Guest

What's next? Are you going to burn history books or any book that "offends" your delicate sensibilities?

amerigirl

Now that is a stupid comment. History is history. My sense of justice and equality is not a sign of delicate sensibilities. You'e indifference is a sign of a cold heart and lack of empathy for anyone that isn't white like you.

Jeanne T

So should Nancy Pelosi request that the statue her father dedicated in Baltimore be removed as well, amerigirl?

amerigirl

If she could, yes. But that is not up to the federal govt, it is up to the state govts.

amerigirl

Confederate soldiers, nor does it grant Confederate soldiers status equal to those of veterans of the United States military. You need a history lesson and need to read the Declaration of Causes by state and “Article of Secession”. It was not even close to being Northern aggression, it was because Lincoln was elected and he was an abolitionist. They knew the would abolish slavery. Border states were not asked to give up slaves if they did nnot join the confederacy, not his friends or enemies. The reason that isn't taught in school is because it's a lie. However they do teach the truth.

KK153

the lawless mob ripped part of their Confederate soldiers monument down in Portsmouth. In doing so they dropped it on the skull of one of the dimwitted mob members who was there.. The cops who they want to defund were on the seen and got him an ambulance...which will probably saved his life.

The irony drips from these people

amerigirl

How nice of the cops, too bad the one who drove through a crowd of protesters wasn't as nice. Or the ones that cracked the skull of a girl while she was on the ground, or slashed tires or the press and health care workers etc, etc, etc.

Guest

You must be referring to the peaceful protesters that were jumping on the police car threatening the officer that was trying to get away, or the peaceful protesters throwing bottles and bricks, etc, etc, etc.

amerigirl

Nope, try the NYPD officers who drove vehicles into protesters in Brooklyn Saturday night, the two officers Buffalo shoving an elderly man to the ground, the attack on the protesters and reporters for trumps photo op, the ones shooting rubber bullets that have blinded two and caused brain damage in another. Their use of tear gas that is even against the rules of war, but is alright to use n citizens? Watch the video of the Indianapolis Police showing officers beating a woman with batons and shooting her with pepper rounds, while she was on the ground covering her head. There are a ton of videos that show police attacking peaceful protesters. The people you mentioned were not protesters they were rioters.

pual mase

You must be referring to the 75 old agitator walking aggressively into a line of police trying to clear the street of rioters. He was lightly pushed out of the way and fell over his own feet. Get the heck out of the street during a riot and don’t confront cops and you won’t find yourself on your ass. The others were throwing bottles and confronting police. They get what they deserved.

Why don’t you join your peaceful anarchists in Seattle?

amerigirl

yeah Pual, 75 year old men are real aggressive.What video were you watching?? Two cops pushed him and he fell. Did they do their duty and assist him? You have no idea who was doing what you are just being a trump mouthpiece, next you will say he is Antifa too. Did you get your info from One America News Network too? They are famous for promoting falsehoods and conspiracy theories.and uses Russian disinformation.

pual mase

AG

I’ll support the cops trying to do their jobs rather than the clumsy old agitator confronting the police. You stick with the fake news CNN and MSNBC to feed you lies and I’ll stick with reality.

amerigirl

Pual, very sad how you try to cover up misdeeds with sloppy excuses. Clumsy old agitator, walking aggressively, lightly pushed out of the way and fell over his own feet (NOT). Totally out of touch with reality or the videos of what happened. I am totally for cops doing their jobs, it is not their job to push an old man to the ground and leave him bleeding from both ears. Not only was it reported on CNN, MSNBC, but also on ABC, CBS, NBC and of course Fox who said; Gugino was caught on camera being shoved to the ground by officers in tactical gear shortly after a curfew went into effect near Niagara Square. Yep, shoved.

pual mase

Th clumsy old fool was there to make trouble.

He put himself in a dangerous situation and aggravated it by not yielding to the police.

What he did is called a flop in the NBA, a technical foul. Then he tripped on his own feet.

The old fool made bad decisions and paid a price.

I can do this all day Amerigirl. Your arguments and lies are too easy to expose.

fiscalconservative

One person makes a mistake and you want to say everyone is bad? Every profession, ethnic race, religion has many good people and unfortunately there are a few bad ones. Please do not generalize for if you will do, every group, profession, religion, etc will be bad.

Voltaire

Fiscalconservative--very good point. I agree.

amerigirl

How is blaming certain people for dong certain things generalization?

Jeanne T

"too bad the one who drove through a crowd of protesters wasn't as nice"

Be thankful he isn't representative of our police.

amerigirl

Both of the police cars that drove through the crowd were supposed to be representing the police, isn't that why they were there?

Voltaire

AG--this is a blanket characterization. Again, an entire profession, law enforcement, is being painted as the "villain" on the basis of a few scenarios without understanding the total scenario and all corresponding variables. What is police officer supposed to do when people are throwing projectiles that could injure/kill him/her? Just let it happen? As to slashed tires, that was a mitigation tactic used by the Minnesota State Patrol to stop rioters from using cars as weapons. There is nothing wrong with that tactic.

amerigirl

Please stop trying to make this a generalization. If I had said all the cop cars maybe, but it was, as I stated 2. I have also said that I thought the cops who made headway with protesters by talking to them and working things out were good. If a cop doesn't know or isn't trained to handle those situations they shouldn't have been there. They are not trained to panic and drive through a crowd. Slashed tires was not a real mitigation, that is why it is being investigated. There is everything wrong with that tactic. It was a parking lot do you think they couldn't have blocked it off?

Guest

If you dont love the flag or the country. Take your ass to Dulles Airport and get a one way ticket to North Korea.

Comment deleted.
amerigirl

Try and prove any of what I say wrong. Some people are so simple minded that anything they don't like becomes drivel when they can't make an actual statement that would contradict another statement. So instead go on the offensive against the person saying it. Simple mindedness.

Jeanne T

"Both of the police cars that drove through the crowd were supposed to be representing the police, isn't that why they were there?"

Are you claiming they represent ALL police officers? amerigirl, you really need to learn to read these comments more carefully. And do some research on the "old man".

amerigirl

Didn’t I say “both” not all? Don’t all police act as agents for the police dept? That doesn’t mean they are all bad, it is saying what their job is. Those cops were not doing their job properly or they wouldn’t be under investigation.

I suggest you do some research Martin Gugino. Trump told some awful lies about him; I hope you didn’t fall for them.

Guest

Sad but true.

ace10

Gravity:1 Rioters:0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laZelch1Uic

amerigirl

Only you would take pleasure in someone getting hurt.

Guest

Why don’t you mention or show any empathy for police killed and injured in the these protests and riots.

Voltaire

Guest--because it doesn't fit into the majority opinion's narrative. Law enforcement is the villain of this story. It doesn't matter that the vast majority of law enforcement officers are competent/professional and care about the community. That doesn't make good ratings for TV or good copy for the newspapers. That is simply wrong and disturbing.

amerigirl

Vol, Law enforcement is not the bad guy. The bad cops are the bad guys. No more cop victimization please.

Voltaire

AG--nope, that doesn't work. I am not doing cop victimization and who are you to tell you to stop anyways? I can opine as I see fit. What I am saying is that you and others on this site don't want to understand the full circumstances as to why certain police actions were taken by officers. No, instead, we get the paint brush approach (blanket characterization). The Minnesota State Patrol told you why they slashed tires but that answer wasn't good enough for you? Oh no, we get into conspiracy theories that are not substantiated with anything but second-rate heresay. Sure, there are bad officers, just like bad apples in every profession. But it is not right for you or anyone else to make conclusions about police actions without understanding all sides of the incident, including the perspective of the police officers who were there. Until you are put into those situations, you don't really understand the full dynamics that led to those actions.

amerigirl

I think anyone protester or cop being hurt is wrong. But look at who is harming the most people.

Voltaire

AG--I agree with you that anyone, be it protester or cop, being hurt is wrong. However, the second statement "...but look at who is harming the most people" again is a generalization and doesn't take into account the situations where law enforcement has to use riot control techniques. Be glad this isn't Europe or other parts of the world, where police can use whatever techniques they see fit to disperse crowds. Want to mess with a water cannon?

amerigirl

Vo. Yeah, it works, you are saying that others are saying it is all cops and that is blatantly false. What stop? You men me saying “Please stop trying to make this a generalization.” Because you were. You said “Again, an entire profession, law enforcement, is being painted as the "villain". Actions were named, in many cases the names of those certain cops were not available, but it was individual events. The tire slashing wasn’t good enough for Minnesota Department of Safety spokesman Bruce Gordon either. He said it was "not a typical tactic," and is investigating. It isn’t but second-rate here say when a reporter says he showed his press ID and that the cop said to move him to the top of the list. I have not made conclusions in a bias fashion, I have looked at all sides, but you have not. You will admit that there are bad apples in every profession but you won’t admit that any of the police have done any wrong in the protests.

Voltaire

AG--I don't have to say it because it is blatantly obvious. My statement of “...Again, an entire profession, law enforcement, is being painted as the "villain"". is correct. I have also said many times that there are bad/rogue officers but the majority of them are professional/competent and care about the community. The record speaks for itself so I don't need words added. I also don't need to be misinterpreted as I have looked at all sides and have also stated that I don't have a problem with protesters who are peaceful and law abiding. As for the Minnesota State Patrol, I stated that I didn't have a problem with those tactics as they appear to be reasonable if the protesters were using vehicles to ram police lines and hurt people. The police, at the time, may have not had sufficient resources to deploy units to block off the parking lot. Again, that is a police command decision that was made with more information than either you and I have and the police commander shouldn't be judged without taking into account all of the variables.

Guest

What was that thump? Darwin Award winners giving it their all !

Joooostice

I know I enjoyed it. You want to destroy property, you get what you deserve. To H with your "feels".

amerigirl

And I suppose the nonviolent protesters or the families protesting peacefully deserve to be gassed, beaten and shot with rubber bullets? Sure all those kids marching with their families deserved to be pepper gassed. Evil.

Voltaire

AG--how do you know these "nonviolent protesters" were such? You don't. Do you know why the police used riot control techniques? No. But it is far easier to play armchair expert and blast police for using those techniques. The police have standard operating procedures for riot control and will follow them. If people throw water bottles and disobey lawful commands then they are allowed to force you to disperse. Nothing evil about it. Simple fact.

amerigirl

Vol, I do know that the ones I am talking about were non-violent. It is repeatedly shown on TV. You have no idea what I know or don’t know but you decided you do? Get off the high horse. Is riot control appropriate for non-violent protesters who have a permit to be where they are at the time? You are assuming all protesters as guilty of ding some crime when that just didn’t happen.

amerigirl

And if you just want to beat people or gas them because you disagree with them they should get what they deserve too.

Voltaire

AG--if people are throwing water bottles at police that can be construed as violent. If people do not follow lawful commands, the police are authorized, by law, to use reasonable force to deal with it. As to the high horse, that is like the pot calling the kettle black no? Do you know the rationale as why riot procedures were used? No. I didn't say that all protesters are guilty of doing criminal because that is a generalization. What I am saying is that there are a multitude of variables that police commanders make on the scene to determine if riot control techniques are required and they have more information than either you and I have and it is not appropriate to, based upon TV coverage, make blanket characterizations/judgments of situations.

Comment deleted.
jke

Love it!

Guest

Remember when the Taliban destroyed the Buddhas of Bamiyan statues in Afghanistan?

amerigirl

Did the Buddhas fight against their own country?

Guest

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

amerigirl

Guest, she is comparing taking down of memorials.

Guest

Yet you connect separate police incidents in separate jurisdictions with different scenarios like they're all related. You getting tired of living in your head yet?

Jeanne T

Buddhist antiquities were destroyed by the Taliban, Islamic jihadis, in Afghanistan in the spring of 2001, blowing apart 2,000 years of Buddhist history. This act received international condemnation.

In 2014 the Islamic State (ISIS) destroyed the ancient tomb of Jonah, a Jewish prophet, in Mosul, Iraq. Mosul was once ancient Ninevah, the capital of the ancient Assyrian empire.

Jeanne T

12 statues and memorials have been vandalized on the National Mall in Washington, D.C., according to the National Park Service. Besides the Lincoln Memorial and the WWII Memorial, other memorials that were vandalized were the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial and the U.S. Navy Memorial. Also vandalized were eight statues, including the statue of Mahatma Gandhi, leader of India’s nonviolent independence movement.

Mahatma Gandhi? Now we know what our children aren't learning in history classes in our state schools.

amerigirl

Do you know who did it? Are you assuming?

pual mase

Gee let me guess AG.

Could it have been the mobs roaming the streets rioting?

The ones with the BLM signs.

Jeanne T

It was done during the rioting.

amerigirl

Simple minds say simple things. Try the rioters, not the protesters.

Jeanne T

I made no comment about the perpetrators.

amerigirl

You didn't have to. You implied enough to get at least 1 comment about it.

Jeanne T

They were vandalized by vandals.

Jeanne T

"You didn't have to. You implied enough to get at least 1 comment about it."

Are you psychic, amerigirl? LOL

amerigirl

Sure Jeanne, I have to be psychic to see that Paul replied to your comment. DUH! Terrible comeback,

Jeanne T

You psychic, amerigirl?

amerigirl

How does that effect history classes? History doesn't change because statues are taken down. Has everyone forgotten the terror of Hitler because his statues were removed?

Jeanne T

LOL, there are many who claim the Holocaust never even happened, amerigirl.

amerigirl

Very sad state of affairs.

Jeanne T

From the New Zealand Herald [Auckland, NZ]: "A protester has reportedly been seriously injured while pulling down a Confederate statue in Portsmouth, Virginia":

FTA: "A protester has reportedly been seriously injured while pulling down a Confederate statue in Portsmouth, Virginia.

"A protester has reportedly been seriously injured while pulling down a Confederate statue in Portsmouth, Virginia.

"There was a gentleman who was directly in front of the statue and when the statue finally did give way it came and fully hit him in the head," a local Black Lives Matter representative told news reporter Brett Hall.

"You could see his skull was actually showing, he was convulsing on the ground. He lost a fair amount of blood, we're asking everybody to pray for that man right now."

Why is this being reported by a New Zealand newspaper?

amerigirl

Because the world is watching. Other countries are showing solidarity including New Zealand, and Australia in Oceania, 8 countries in Africa, 13 in Asia, 31 in Europe, all 3 of us in NA, 3 in the Caribbean, and 4 in South America. In those countries there were protests in multiple cities. The UN has agreed to let staff members participate in protest on a personal level. NATO has spoken out about the racial problem and against trump using the military on his own people. Even the Pope Francis said, "My friends, we cannot tolerate or turn a blind eye to racism and exclusion in any form and yet claim to defend the sacredness of every human life," He mentioned George Floyd twice in that speech. It seems the rest of the world know how much of a racial divide we have, it is just us that don't see it.

pual mase

Maybe these countries can take responsibility for providing order in the streets and cleaning up the destruction. Talk is cheap when you are thousands of miles away and are fed the MSM lies and sensationalism.

The overwhelming majority believes Floyd’s death was a tragedy and despises racism.

Informed and rational people don’t but the systemic racism canard and the rioting threatening fellow Americans.

amerigirl

So sad that you think so little of the USA that you feel other countries should step in and fix the situation. Only you would say talk is cheap about statements for equality, especially those coming from the pope. How long and how many years of asking for change do you expect before protesting? Isn't that inequality the same threatening of fellow Americans? They should protect some but not others?

Jeanne T

You missed the point of the question.

amerigirl

The question was "Why is this being reported by a New Zealand newspaper?" and that is the answer. These countries are paying attention to what is going on in the US because they sympathize with those fighting for equality.

Voltaire

AG--Those countries have their own problems with racism and are being hypocritical. Maybe they should worry about their own domestic racism and stop trying to "sympathize" in our domestic situation, no?

amerigirl

Vol, your reasoning leaves a lot to be desired when you start blaming the past of other countries because they sympathize with the protests.

Voltaire

AG--I am not blaming other countries for "sympathizing". What I am saying is those other countries have demonstrated records of racism within their own boundaries and that it is the height of hypocrisy for them to make judgments about what happens in this country without those countries solving the same problem within their own borders. That includes the Catholic Church who have a history of racism towards the Native Americans.

Voltaire

AG--Really? I don't believe the whole world is watching. Also, those countries that you identified have their own problems with racism. Racism of various forms is found in every country on Earth. Australia, for example, the white population there has blatantly shown racism to the Aborigine people. According to the New Zealand Herald, New Zealand has open racism towards Indians and other immigrants. History shows that African nations were active participants in the slave trade, both historical and active today. European/Asian/Caribbean/South American/ nations have actively demonstrated racism towards immigrants. There is also reported racism in both Mexico and Canada too. As to the UN, as I have stated previously they should be more worried about relevance. in an article from the Council of Foreign Relations, it stated that "...there is increased sentiment in the UN General Assembly and also within the UN Secretariat that there is really a crisis of relevance to the world body and the organization. In 2002, President George W. Bush famously challenged the United Nations to prove its continued relevance in the lead-up to the war in Iraq. What’s interesting now is that a lot of the same questions asked by Bush are actually being asked within the United Nations itself by many of the member states and within the Secretariat." Now, moving to NATO, just like the UN, it too should be worried about relevance. As stated in the Atlantic Sentinel "...NATO has searched for relevance ever since the threat of global communism against which it was originally devised disappeared in the early 1990s." As for Pope Francis and the Catholic Church, let's look at their history because they too are hypocrites. For example, as the Washington Post stated in an article "...Catholic parishes rarely examine the church’s record of actively participating in the federal government’s conquest and colonization of Native Americans and the West, part of the church’s effort in the 19th and 20th centuries to gain mainstream acceptance in America. Numerous bishops and priests partnered with federal officials and their Protestant rivals in a shared project of forced assimilation of indigenous people, participating in family separations and involuntary placement of Native American children in boarding schools where abuses regularly occurred." So, they should take care of their own in-house problems before they want to criticize/critique what is happening in this country.

amerigirl

Vol, believe what you want, then go look at the pictures from the protests and see how many have BLM, ‘same my name’ signs with US names on them. That is the problem, racism being widespread, but not every county on earth. The protests may include how the people are treated in their countries but are because of the protests in this country. The Italian soccer team all took a knee before their game in solidarity with the US protesters. History of countries is just the background. I suggest instead of trying to make their protests innocuous you read up on their protests. You can keep trying to find fault with everyone that has spoken out, now look at the reason they are speaking out. You can even find fault with the pope? Good God. You have found very little to base your theory on.

Voltaire

AG--Yes I can fault with the Pope. He's the head of the Catholic Church. As I showed in my earlier article, the Catholic Church, during the Federal Government's colonization of the West partnered with the Federal Government's "forced assimilation of Native Americans". So before he wants to opine about US race relations, maybe he should deal with the Church's history first.

amerigirl

I get it Vol you think the rest of the world, and the pope are wrong. History of a religion has nothing to do with current day events, why do you keep bringing it up? Do you think that all these countries and the pope are living a life of the past?

Voltaire

AG--I don't think that the rest of the world is wrong. However, as I demonstrated, all of the nations that are "sympathizing" are being hypocrites because they have their own internal problems to deal with but instead think that it is better to meddle into the affairs of this nation. We don't go over to Australia and protest how the whites there treat the Aborigines, do we? No. We don't tell France to stop treating immigrants like scum? No again. Yet, it is perfectly fine that all these "sympathizing" nations can do that here? No, it is hypocrisy and it is wrong. Yes, in this case, the history of a religion (Catholicism) is relevant because the Pope is, like the other countries, making a condemnation of racial relations yet they refuse to discuss how they mistreated the Native Americans. Native Americans have a legitimate claim of racism but nobody wants to talk about that do they?

amerigirl

Vol, maybe it’s because you think it is the nations that are making the statement. It is not, it is the people of those nations that are making the statement. It is the people that are taking to the streets, sometimes much to the displeasure of their officials. They don’t come over here to protest, nor do we go over there. The United States has emerged as a leader in multilateral human rights and humanitarian initiatives in Somalia, Sudan, Haiti, Bosnia, and other countries. Yes we get involved. The Human Rights and Democracy Act is an extension of the Hong Kong Policy Act, the basis of the US approach since 1992. The US believes human rights are universal, and has a long-standing policy that China should honor its agreements on Hong Kong. There have been multiple protests at the Whitehouse and other places like the UN for human rights in other countries, most people look and then look away. These are the people not the government protesting. There have been protests for Iran, Somalia, Libya, Iraq, Yugoslavia, Hong Kong, etc. Then we have our current president who actually praised Beijing's "vicious" tactics against protesters. Again you are going with history, it’s now, times have changed and people are finally getting it.

Jeanne T

The question was asked not because the "world is watching", but rather because it should have been reported in our media.

amerigirl

It was reported in our media. I saw it on NBC and CBS.

RoundHillGuy

we need a citizen review board that reviews any items that may hurt feelings or trigger millennials since they can't seem to deal with the world around them and view any thing that goes against their government school indoctrination as racist. Don't travel to Europe please, their may be a statue of something that triggers their tender little feelings.

RandomName2019

Government school indoctrination? Jesus wept... Seriously, all this outrage over the correction of centuries worth of misinformation? Read the secessionist documents. Every single one mentions slavery as the catalyst for secession. This is not fake news. It's not fake history. You can argue about why slavery was so important to the South's economic engine and understand what motivated those in power to double down on slave labor, but that doesn't mean you need to celebrate it. You can point out that most soldiers fought for their home state because it superseded the idea of loyalty to the nation without also celebrating the cause that led them into battle. You can look at a monument and understand the (well documented) rationale for it's creation and placement without applying blanket statements to all monuments. Southerners were not evil, no more than Northerners were good. The institution of the "South" fought for a viewpoint we find reprehensible today, and the North fought for a viewpoint that evolved into one that championed the freeing of slaves, the abolishment of slavery, and the granting of equal rights to all men (women had to wait awhile). Removing a statue erected during the Jim Crow era is not removing history, it's clarifying it.

KK153

"Every single one mentions slavery as the catalyst for secession"

bald face lie. just like a liberal so throw something out as a fact, when they have no clue.

Try actually reading them. The grand irony being read VIRGINIA's in particular. No mention of slavery as a reason for secession... lots of states rights issues listed...no slaves.

Now after you educated yourself on that read Lincolns first inaugural address, Lincolns letter to Horace Greeley, the Corwin Amendment to the US Constitution...then tell me what the case of that war was.

Lesson over

amerigirl

Not so, in the Ordinance of Secession the first 7 states felt threatened by Lincoln winning the election and felt that he was putting slavery at risk. The next 4 states felt the same way but were also not supporting the policy of using military force to preserve the Union by compelling the earlier seceding states to submit. Virginia had voted against succession until Lincoln was elected and then voted for it. According to one Virginian teacher, William M. Thompson, who would later become a Confederate cavalryman, the declaring of secession by the slave states was necessary to preserve slavery as well as prevent marriages between freedmen and the white "daughters of the South", saying that civil war would be preferable:

Voltaire

AG--nope, slavery was not the catalyst for secession. The election of Abraham Lincoln and rise of the abolitionist movement in the North were. Also, state rights was one of four/five major issues that caused the Civil War. The other four were (1) Economy (Agriculture (South)/Industrial (North)); (2) State Rights (Southern States wanted the right to nullify Federal Acts); (3) Slavery (Slave vs. Non-Slave States and Rise of Abolitionist Movement in North); (4) Election of Abraham Lincoln; (5) expansion of slavery into the newly forming western states/territories.

amerigirl

Vol, you keep telling yourself that. But right there in your second sentence you prove my point. They were against Lincoln for trying to end slavery, being an abolitionist.

RandomName2019

The people of Virginia, in their ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America, adopted by them in Convention, on the twenty-fifth day of June in the year of our Lord, one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, having declared that the powers granted under the said Constitution, were derived from the people of the United States, and might be resumed whensoever the same should be perverted to their injury and oppression; and the Federal Government having perverted said powers, not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern slaveholding States.

Huh, look at that...right there in the Virginia ordinance of secession.

Voltaire

AG--no, I don't have tell myself that because that is what the historical record says is FACT. Contrary to popular opinion, the Civil War was more complex and had more economic and political variables then just slavery. That is too simplistic an interpretation. Maybe a history refresher is in order as this concept is not too difficult to grasp, no?

amerigirl

Vol, the main reason that the civil war was started was Lincoln being elected and his views on slavery. The secondary views were there but it was not the main cause. Yes, definitely you should take a history refresher so you can grasp the main reason for succession.

Voltaire

AG--nope, that is simply wrong. The election of Lincoln was the catalyst that triggered the war but it wasn't the only issue that led to the civil war. There were other economic and political issues that caused the war. Yes, definitely you should take a history refresher so you can grasp that the Civil War was more than just slavery.

amerigirl

As I said before, it was not the only issue it was the main issue. The reason Lincoln was the catalyst was about slavery. Every state in the Confederacy issued an “Article of Secession” declaring their break from the Union. Four states went further. Texas, Mississippi, Georgia and South Carolina all issued additional documents, the “Declarations of Causes," which explain their decision to leave the Union. Two major themes emerge in these documents: slavery and states' rights. All four states strongly defend slavery while making varying claims related to states' rights. When you break down the reasoning in those documents you can get a percentage of their main concerns. Georgia, 54% dealt with slavery, Mississippi 73%, Texas 54%, and S, Carolina was only 20%. But they also felt it was up to the states and the states rights portion of their declaration was 31%. All other reason combined made up the rest of their declarations. Mississippi and Georgia made a point of saying that slavery accounts for a huge portion of the South’s economy. All of them mention Abraham Lincoln's election and his abolitionism. That’s why it within 3 months of election 7 states had succeeded.

amerigirl

Truly does not understand racism.

CindyLou

Freedom? Just an excuse anymore for bad behavior. Just because we are free doesn't mean we can do whatever we want to do? Their are laws, respecting humanity, keeping people safe, etc. Every time someone doesn't like something it's "my freedom is being taken away" Blah, blah, blah. Wear a mask, stop being racial and admit their is a racism problem in America, admit police brutality is out of control and take down statues that supported slavery of a person because of the color of their skin, but them in a Museum!!!! Or on National Park land with an apology for the human race!!!! Funny, racists don't know they are racist do they?

ace10

Admit you have a problem, then we can move on to address your grievances.

Jeanne T

What is the excuse for rioting, burning and looting businesses, many of them owned by minorities and in minority neighborhoods.

What is the excuse for destroying 70 (seventy) testing places for COVID-19, CindyLou?

Guest

"Have we reached the ultimate stage of absurdity where some people are held responsible for things that happened before they were born, while other people are not held responsible for what they themselves are doing today?" - Thomas Sowell

Voltaire

Guest--Excellent/relevant quotation. [thumbup]

amerigirl

Like people are going to live their lives on the word of a a libertarian conservative. He is so biased.

Loudoun4Trump

Part of the cancel culture (movies, books and flags are next - so much for freedom of speech and thought)....I see the anarchists are out destroying public property throughout the nation...even took over seattle downtown.....this is just occupy wallstreet redux.....same losers who rape assault and do drugs with each other.....what a group of losers!

amerigirl

WOW that is quite a generalization. If I felt that way i would be afraid to go outside.

pual mase

And the world would be a better place

Jeanne T

Do you live in Seattle? Portland? Los Angeles? Minneapolis? No? Then be glad you don't.

amerigirl

Jeanne, think first before you type. It says clearly “throughout the nation”. Then says that the protesters are people who rape assault and do drugs with each other, and you are defending that? Please read the actual comments.

amerigirl

Pual , are you john Lennon? You know where you can go too.

Guest

It is sad, and yes, pathetic, to imagine that removing statues will solve our problems moving forward. Out of sight/out of mind? This would be yet another symbolic gesture that ignores the real work moving forward to be done by all of us. It is wrong to view our history through the lens of the present. Have any of you bothered to read letters from those living in your area at the time? I have a journal for the entire year of 1863 from your area - a young woman living just north of Leesburg. I would not wish for any today to live through her day to day experience. It is lazy and wrong (selfish, too)to condense what happened to suit today's narrative. In my own family, those who supported the North owned slaves, yet those who supported the South did not! Brother against brother - it seems we never acknowledge the economic ties to England and that the emancipation proclamation only applied to Confederate states - not the North. Why? (ponder that one before responding) Those victorious leaders who understood the need to heal had the grace to allow the loss of loved ones to be mourned and honored. Why don't we get that? yes - slavery WAS a stain on the history of this country - NOTHING that anyone does right now will change that. Removing statues - wearing African cloth - blacking out screens, etc become disingenuous virtue signaling if we are not willing to do the real work within our own families and our communities. Please put the statues into the context of actual history instead of promoting a "lie" in order to compensate for your own discomfort.

ace10

I hope people read your entire post. It was a good one.

amerigirl

It was a joke and you fell for it.

CindyLou

Guest....HA...."nothing that anyone does now"??? Wow.

Guest

yes - nothing that you do now will ever change what happened in the past. One can only impact the present and alter the course of the future through their own choices and actions now. BTW - slavery is actually happening NOW in Africa - where is the outrage? Direct energies towards being yourself what you expect from others - carrying the bricks from the past will only produce the same house. Do the work - EVERY DAY

ace10

Did you actually try to read the entire comment, or did you just focus on the part you really couldn't grasp?

amerigirl

You want to live in the past, go join him. Maybe you wouldn't be so nasty with everyone in the present then.

amerigirl

It is sad that you don’t see how hurtful it is if you are black and there are statues that honor the men that wanted to enslave and oppress you. That is the actual context of the statues. If you want to live in the past go ahead, but people have made progress in the way they think since then. History is just that, the past, move on.

Guest

AG speaks for every black person, how kind.

amerigirl

I speak for equality. What do you stand for? anything?

Well Water Person

If we take down the Confederate statue in the Courthouse square, what will take its place?

A monument to Nat Turner and his murdering followers?

RandomName2019

Yeah, sure, put up one about Nat Turner. I'd rather look at a man who fought back against his oppressors than a symbol of a failed institution that defined itself through the subjugation of others. Also, for what it's worth Nat Turner spared a few homes "because Turner believed the poor white inhabitants 'thought no better of themselves than they did of negroes.'

amerigirl

How about a fountain, they never oppressed anyone.

pual mase

I’m sure BLM will concoct a a reason a fountain is oppressive

amerigirl

Starting another conspiracy theory all on your own?

Well Water Person

I'm offended by the Martin Luther King monument in DC.

We need to remove it.

RandomName2019

I don't doubt that you are. Seeing a black man honored on the national mall probably makes your blood boil.

amerigirl

and what if the people who were against the Vietnam war want the wall taken down. Or Asians whose families had everything taken from them during WWII, and thrown into internment camps, should they remove the monument to those vets? Ridiculous really that the US wants to keep up statues to people who fought against them.

Thebroof

Democrats hate being reminded of their racist roots. They're still racist, they just learned to hide it better.

amerigirl

Democrats are well aware that the republican and democratic platforms changed. From 1800 to 1829, the Democratic-Republicans split into two factions by 1828: the federalist National Republicans, and the Democrats.If you were a democrat before that you would be a republican now and vise versa. You need to stop your uninformed blame game and take a history lesson.

Guest

Let's start by taking down everything that offends Person #1--every sign and statue they don't agree with, close every business they don't like and stop selling anything they disapprove of, silence all music they don't care for, change any city or street named after a person they don't approve, and so on. When they're satisfied, let's move on to Person #2, and then #3, and the next, and so on until every American is satisfied. Can't do that? Of course not! It's impossible to please everyone. And to do as I sarcastically began, is called censorship. We do not need or want censorship, we NEED tolerance. Instead of becoming increasingly careful in our level of political correctness until we are walking on eggshells...we need a measure of respect, but also an understanding that people may have different viewpoints and that's OK. Human beings need to learn that nothing has any meaning beyond that which you attach tonit.

In this way folks on both sides of the issue could toleratee that something like a statue which has sat silently for so long, is significant to some as a positive symbol of history, to some as a painful reminder of heinous crimes, to artists in recognition of sculptor's skill, and to others as a remembrance of soldiers who died. I believe the ideal is not to censor in favor of any of these viewpoints, but to tolerate a statue for being just a statue--and may each enjoy it or ignore it as they choose.

Guest

It’s not censoring. Do you think Germany has statues of Hitler in memorial? You don’t make any sense in your argument to keep them

ace10

You're correct. No statues of Hitler in Germany.

But they do have DOZENS of memorials dedicated to the soldiers who fought for Germany in WW2. And, just a reminder, the "statue" in Loudoun is a memorial dedicated to Confederate soldiers from Loudoun.

You're asserting a false equivalence, which is lazy. Or intellectually dishonest. Depending on your understanding of the subject.

RandomName2019

That's a false equivocation. Germany repented for their cultural sins, outlawing the symbols most associated with their vile acts. There was also no movement to disenfranchise those they'd abused and their monuments were to the soldiers in their national Army, not to soldiers in a rebellion.

You're ignoring every shred of historical evidence that outlines the Lost Cause/Jim Crow movement that erected and established thousands of Confederate monuments in an effort to justify their existence. Why is that?

amerigirl

Fought and lost. They fought against this country you live in There is no false equivalence at all zero. Because again you are uninformed. There are no NAZI memorials of any type in Germany, look it up. The only remembrance of that time is the concentration camps and those aren't there to honor any Nazi soldier. .

Voltaire

Guest--it is a form of censoring. Those memorials are part of the South's way of memorializing their dead sons who gave their lives for a cause they believe in. Katrina Dunn Johnson, Curator of the South Carolina Confederate Relic Room and Military Museum, stated that "thousands of families throughout the country were unable to reclaim their soldier's remains--many never learned their loved ones' exact fate on the battlefield or within the prison camps. The psychological impact of such a devastating loss cannot be underestimated when attempting to understand the primary motivations behind Southern memorialization." Furthermore, in a June 2018 speech, Civil War historian James I. Robertson Jr. of Virginia Tech University said the monuments were not a "Jim Crow signal of defiance" and referred to the current trend to dismantle or destroy them as an "age of idiocy" motivated by "elements hell-bent on tearing apart unity that generations of Americans have painfully constructed."

As to Germany, they do not have statues of Hitler but they do have statues remembering their people who died serving in the Wehrmacht for their country.

amerigirl

Vol, you’re right it was a form of censoring. That statue was meant to censor the blacks that came to the courthouse to seek justice. They may as well have had a sign that said no blacks welcome here. There is a reason the DAR had that type of statue mass produced and gifted to places mostly put in front of courthouses. Yes, they were "Jim Crow signal of defiance". The statues were not erected right after the civil war but in the Jim Crow era just as the KKK was walking the streets of Washington DC.

amerigirl

Seriously, don’t agree with??? Those statues are a master of disagreement they are a symbol of people who enslaved and oppressed other human beings. How do you not understand that it isn’t just a disagreement? Why should a black person who needs to go into the courthouse have to pass by an armed statue honoring the people that enslaved his family? That would be like having Jews pass a statue of Hitler on their way to a courthouse. This is more than censorship or opinions this is about respect for equality for all human beings in this country.

Voltaire

AG--seriously. The Confederate soldier on the Loudoun County grounds is a memorial to the Confederate soldiers who were residents of Loudoun County. Those soldiers were average, ordinary citizens who fought for their home state. For the record, not every Southerner owned slaves. Though it was often supported throughout the social and economic classes, not every white southerner owned slaves. The population of the slave-holding states was around 9.6 million in 1850 and only about 350,000 were slave owners. This included many of the wealthiest families, a number of whom owned large plantations. At the start of the Civil War, at least 4 million slaves were forced to live and work on the southern plantations. Therefore, you CANNOT make the claim that every Southerner enslaved black people. That characterization is wrong. What about respect for the Confederate veterans who died fighting for what they believed was right? President McKinley stated it best when he cited reconciliation between the North and South in a speech that followed the conclusion of the Spanish American War on December 14, 1898. A number of former Confederate officers had volunteered for service during the war, which had helped secure U.S. victory, McKinley said: "...Every soldier’s grave made during our unfortunate Civil War is a tribute to American valor. And while, when those graves were made, we differed widely about the future of this government, those differences were long ago settled by the arbitrament of arms; and the time has now come, in the evolution of sentiment and feeling under the providence of God, when in the spirit of fraternity we should share with you in the care of the graves of the Confederate soldiers."

amerigirl

Vol, have you done any research on the matter? It was very divided in Loudoun, the eastern and southern sections were predominately with the South, while to the north and west the people were equally strong in pro-Union. It’s not like the entire county aligned with the confederacy. Even if they had been it should not be in front of the court house that represents justice for all. How would you feel if you were black and had to walk by a memorial to a confederate soldier with a gun? A representative of the pole that wanted to keep you enslaved? Would you feel equal? The courthouse is not the right place for that. I skipped the history lesson not relevant to the discussion.

Jeanne T

"Jeanne, think first before you type. It says clearly “throughout the nation”. Then says that the protesters are people who rape assault and do drugs with each other, and you are defending that? Please read the actual comments."

amerigirl, I read the comments. So why are you accusing me in a public forum of approving rape and doing drugs?

amerigirl

You put your comment under a comment that said "same losers who rape assault and do drugs with each other.....what a group of losers!"

Guest

When are we renaming Leesburg.....

Unreconstructed

Why did the South secede? The popular narrative is to preserve and extend slavery. But is this true? Southern and Northern newspapers had the following to say:

“Property in negro labor should not be a barrier to our independence... If it is found in the way, if it proves an insurmountable object to the achievement of our independence and separate nationality, away with it, let it perish.” Jackson Mississippian, August, 1863

“The war has slanderously been called the slaveholders’ war; undertaken for slavery, and maintained and supported solely for the perpetuation of negro slavery. Our enemies have charged, and much of the world believes the charge, that we have sacrificed the best and noblest of our land, heartlessly and cruelly, to maintain the negro property of some three hundred thousand slaveholders. The unparalleled suffering of this war has been slanderously misrepresented as detailed upon the poor and rich of these States by the selfish slaveholder for the security of his ‘human chattels.’ The people of these States know the infamous falsity of these charges...” The Richmond Enquirer,1863

“If, to save our liberties, we find it necessary to emancipate, we shall have, therefore, lost nothing, while we shall have gained the supreme issue – independence.” The Richmond Sentinel, 1864

“If, to secure our independence, the abolition of slavery be necessary... we are prepared to adopt a conservative, safe, practical course in the matter.’ The Wilmington Carolinian

“...for negro slavery was the mere occasion, and is not the object or end of this war. We would show to the world the lesson that, for national independence and freedom from Yankee domination, in addition to sacrifices already made, the people of these States are ready and willing, when the necessity arises, to sacrifice any number or all of the slaves to the cause of national freedom.”

The Richmond Inquirer, 1864

“Our cause, stripped of the prejudices which slavery has thrown around it, would finally stand revealed in its true colours, ‘the cause of a people struggling for nationality and independence, and the United States would stand before the world as the oppressor, denying the principles by which its own struggle for liberty was justified.’ “

The Richmond Enquirer 1864

“The women of the South are not so in love with their negro property as to wish to see husbands, fathers, sons, brothers slain to protect it; nor would they submit to Yankee rule, could it secure to them a thousand waiting maids, whence now they only possess one.”

Macon Telegraph and Confederate.

“To save our country from Yankee conquest and domination…we should of course be willing not only to give up property and sacrifice comfort, but to put in abeyance political and social theories.” Richmond Examiner

“The real causes of dissatisfaction in the South with the North, are in the unjust taxation and expenditure of the taxes by the Government of the United States, and in the revolution the North has effected in this government, from a confederated republic, to a national sectional despotism.” Charleston Mercury, 12/7/1860

Even yankee papers supported secession as a check to Constitutional infidelity... at least until they realized that legal principle would cost them money. They also expressed thoughts on the cause of war:

“opposing secession changes the nature of government from a voluntary one, in which the people are sovereigns, to a despotism were one part of the people are slaves”New York Journal of commerce 1/12/61

“The great principles embodied by Jefferson in the declaration is... that governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed” Therefore if the southern states wish to secede, “they have a clear right to do so” New York tribune 2/5/61

“Secession is “the very germ of liberty...the right of secession inheres to the people of every sovereign state”Kenosha Wisconsin Democrat 1/11/61

“the leading and most influncial papers of the union believe that any state of the union has a right to secede”Davenport Iowa Democrat and news 11/17/60

“In one single blow our foreign commerce must be reduced to less than one-half what it now is. Our coastwise trade would pass into other hands. One-half of our shipping would lie idle at our wharves. . . . Our manufactories would be in utter ruins. . . . millions of our people would be compelled to go out of employment." Daily-Chicago Times December 10, 1860

“No act of this kind should become law,” (Morrill Tariff) “All admit the breaking up of the Confederacy to be possible.” Para 5: “This proposed bill (Morrill Tariff) is most objectionable both in its principle and in its details, uniting specific and ad velorem duties such minuteness of subdivisions and detail as to give rise to endless misunderstandings and disputes and rendering necessary, with our present imports, a force at least treble that now employed.” (Even The New York Times thought Lincoln’s pledge to enforce the Morrill Tariff was illegal and would cause a secession crisis, The Times was correct.). 14 Feb 1861, New York Times

“We have repeatedly asked those who dissent from our view of this matter to tell us frankly whether they do or do not assent to Mr. Jefferson's statement in the Declaration of Independence that governments ’derive their just powers from the consent of the governed; and that, whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute a new government.’ We do heartily accept this doctrine, believing it intrinsically sound, beneficent, and one that, universally accepted, is calculated to prevent the shedding of seas of human blood. And, if it justified the secession from the British Empire of Three Millions of colonists in 1776, we do not see why it would not justify the secession of Five Millions of Southrons from the Federal Union in 1861. If we are mistaken on this point, why does not some one attempt to show wherein and why? . . . we could not stand up for coercion, for subjugation, for we do not think it would be just. We hold the right of Self-Government sacred, even when invoked in behalf of those who deny it to others . . . if ever 'seven or eight States' send agents to Washington to say 'We want to get out of the Union,' we shall feel constrained by our devotion to Human Liberty to say, Let Them Go! And we do not see how we could take the other side without coming in direct conflict with those Rights of Man which we hold paramount to all political arrangements, however convenient and advantageous.” The New York Daily Tribune, December 17, 1860

As was often repeated in the South, the cause for which they seceded and fought was INDEPENDENCE from a section of the country that sought economic and political advantage by ignoring the Constitution. The right of a government of, by, and for the people; of government by consent of the governed, is that not the essence of the Declaration of Independence?

Guest

Thank you for your comments. The truth has been suppressed too long, entirely for political reasons.

Voltaire

Excellent Post! Very interesting information.[thumbup]

Guest

Your missing the larger point that a Constitution outlining treason was ratified 100 years prior. There was no legal maneuver to "secede" - it was straight up treason! Maybe you should be thankful for the benevolence of Mr. Lincoln for granting the majority of traitors clemency, allowing the south to exist and for the rest of us tolerating the "heritage not hate" rhetoric for the past 155 years. And remind me, how did a southern "gentlemen" and actor repay Mr. Lincoln for his light touch of allowing the Army of Northern Virginia to surrender a week earlier?

Jeanne T

"Maybe you should be thankful for the benevolence of Mr. Lincoln for granting the majority of traitors clemency,"

Are you thankful for that? Or are you "thankful" for Sherman's slash and burn devastation of the South, which did nothing to advance reconciliation? And, by the way, I'm from the North, lest you accuse me of being a traitor as well. Yet, even I have the moral clarity to know that what Sherman and his army did was not necessary. Yet, the Southern General, George H. Thomas, who joined the Union, did not allow his men to rob and pillage southerners to get food for his men. i'll bet you've never heard of him. He never lost a battle. Not one. He was methodical, avoiding the mistakes of Sherman and Grant which resulted in a (needless) high loss of life. I consider him to be the best General of the Civil War.

And you surely know that those who signed our Constitution were also considered traitors, since they rebelled against the British King. Any one of them could have been executed for doing so, and they knew it. Many of them invested their own wealth in the effort to win independence from Britain. Did you know that? Were you taught that in school?

Jeanne T

Oh, and I should add that after the war Gen. George H. Thomas, the Southern Unionist, hated by Sherman and Grant:

".......commanded the Department of the Cumberland in Kentucky and Tennessee, and at times also West Virginia and parts of Georgia, Mississippi and Alabama, through 1869. During the Reconstruction period, Thomas acted to protect freedmen from white abuses. He set up military commissions to enforce labor contracts since the local courts had either ceased to operate or were biased against blacks. Thomas also used troops to protect places threatened by violence from the Ku Klux Klan.[33] In a November 1868 report, Thomas noted efforts made by former Confederates to paint the Confederacy in a positive light, stating:

"[T]he greatest efforts made by the defeated insurgents since the close of the war have been to promulgate the idea that the cause of liberty, justice, humanity, equality, and all the calendar of the virtues of freedom, suffered violence and wrong when the effort for southern independence failed. This is, of course, intended as a species of political cant, whereby the crime of treason might be covered with a counterfeit varnish of patriotism, so that the precipitators of the rebellion might go down in history hand in hand with the defenders of the government, thus wiping out with their own hands their own stains; a species of self-forgiveness amazing in its effrontery, when it is considered that life and property—justly forfeited by the laws of the country, of war, and of nations, through the magnanimity of the government and people—was not exacted from them.

— George Henry Thomas, November 1868."

You should devote more time to learning history. I'm sure you didn't learn the above in school.

RandomName2019

...and yet, every secessionist document issued mentioned slavery, as did the CSA constitution...

Voltaire

RandomName2019--those documents mentioned slavery because it was one of the factors that led to the Civil War. However, it wasn't the ONLY one, there were more than that element.

amerigirl

Vol, it was the first mentioned and the most relevant reason for leaving the union.

Voltaire

AG--I stand behind my original comment. There were MORE factors in the Civil War than just slavery. The historical record supports that. If you want to debate the historical record, be my guest.

amerigirl

Vol, there were ore factors, what was the main factor? It sounds like you are debating the historical record with yourself.

Guest

Absolutely, Sherman certainly did leave a trail of destruction, that's what an insurrection of this scope manifested. He did spare Savannah, if only for its logistical importance. By all accounts he was reluctant to begin on his march to the sea. Maybe it was because of 13,000 dead U.S. Army soldiers in Andersonville, maybe it was because Lincoln and Johnson needed the dramatic decisiveness to ensure this insurrection was quelled. It certainly didn't make it "moral", war is the antithesis to morality, but I believe it may have been necessary or the war would have dragged on for years longer and nothing would be left. Davis did desire to run a guerilla war. And for better or worse, history is written by the victors so of course our "schooling" puts that spin on it.

Interesting comments on Gen Thomas - no I hadn't heard much if anything of him. Sadly my parochial education never reached that level of detail with U.S. history. An interesting read for sure, hated by the South for his alliance with the union. You've piqued my curiosity. Hopefully if there is a statue of him it's above the Mason-Dixon...so the angry mob can't mistakenly tear him down too...

Jeanne T

Guest, there is an excellent book on Gen. Thomas by Benson Bobrick, "Master of War: The Life of General George H. Thomas" (2009). I highly recommend it, and I think you would enjoy it. Thomas was viewed with suspicion by Sherman and Grant. Thomas never lived to write his memoirs, but he did say, "Time and history will do me justice." The man deserves an honored place in our history.

Thomas survived the Nat Turner uprising; his family owned slaves in Virginia. When he sided with the Union, his mother and sisters turned his picture to the wall. He was one of the one of the principal commanders in the Western Theater, commanding the army of the Cumberland. Here's an excerpt from Wikipedia (look him up); this is all in the book:

"Thomas served in the Mexican–American War and later chose to remain with the U.S. Army for the Civil War as a Southern Unionist, despite his heritage as a Virginian (whose home state would join the Confederate States of America). He won one of the first Union victories in the war, at Mill Springs in Kentucky, and served in important subordinate commands at Perryville and Stones River. His stout defense at the Battle of Chickamauga in 1863 saved the Union Army from being completely routed, earning him his most famous nickname, "the Rock of Chickamauga." He followed soon after with a dramatic breakthrough on Missionary Ridge in the Battle of Chattanooga. In the Franklin–Nashville Campaign of 1864, he achieved one of the most decisive victories of the war, destroying the army of Confederate General John Bell Hood, his former student at West Point, at the Battle of Nashville.

"Thomas had a successful record in the Civil War, but he failed to achieve the historical acclaim of some of his contemporaries, such as Ulysses S. Grant and William T. Sherman. He developed a reputation as a slow, deliberate general who shunned self-promotion and who turned down advancements in position when he did not think they were justified. After the war, he did not write memoirs to advance his legacy. He also had an uncomfortable personal relationship with Grant, which served him poorly as Grant advanced in rank and eventually to the presidency."

Jeanne T

There is a life-size statue of Gen. Thomas by sculptor Rodolfo Ayoroa, located at Civil War Park, Lebanon, Kentucky.

Voltaire

Guest--Sherman's forces followed a "scorched earth" policy, destroying military targets as well as industry, infrastructure, and civilian property, disrupting the Confederacy's economy and transportation networks. The operation broke the back of the Confederacy and helped lead to its eventual surrender. Sherman's bold move of operating deep within enemy territory and without supply lines is considered to be one of the major achievements of the war and is also considered to be an early example of modern total war.

Simon

Good thing we never had a governor who thought it would be fun to wear black face or a First Lady who handed cotton to black child who was asked to imagine being enslaved and having to pick cotton.

RandomName2019

This comment is the equivalent of "hey, look over there!"

Two things can be wrong at the same time.

amerigirl

It just might happen.

Voltaire

We're not. Moving on to the next point....

Guest

So when we renaming Leesburg......

Voltaire

How about never? Does never work for you?

Jeanne T

"lawman" said, "But Americans took slavery to a monstrous level."

No, they didn't. We should never, ever minimize the sin of slavery, whether in North America, the Caribbean Islands, South America, anywhere. But we ended it. However, slavery didn't begin with the Transatlantic Slave Trade. You need to educate yourself on the TransSaharan Slave Trade and slavery of Africans and Europeans. Read about slavery under the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Empire was founded in the 13th Century, and controlled much of Southeastern Europe, Western Asia, and Northern Africa between the 14th and early 20th centuries. North African corsairs were raiding the costs of European countries, all the way up to Iceland.

Slavery is still prevalent in the Middle East and Africa today. Remember the 276 Nigerian school girls, most of whom were Christians, who were kidnapped by Boko Haram, the Islamic State in West Africa, in 2014? And don't forget Saudi Arabia, which imports probably most of its workers, many from the Philippines, many of them Christians. Those workers' passports are confiscated upon arrival in SA, and it is very difficult to leave. Women cannot leave the country unless accompanied by a male relative.

Even earlier, the Hebrews (today's Jews) were enslaved in ancient Egypt, taken into captivity to Babylon, persecuted and hunted down throughout history. The Jews are the most persecuted and abused people in history.

amerigirl

Jeanne how does your statements show that the way slaves were treated in this country was not monstrous? Why does it matter if they are christian? The girls taken by Boko Haram,were not slaves. But still what does any of what you are saying justify the way slaves were treated in this country?

Jeanne T

"The girls taken by Boko Haram,were not slaves"

And how did you come to that absurd conclusion? Were these schoolgirls free to leave their captors? No? Then they were slaves. They were kidnapped and kept by their captors involuntarily. They were repeatedly raped. Now that makes them sex slaves, and many of them had children by their rapists. What definition of slavery are you using?

Constitution

A Confederate statue does not belong in front of a courthouse because the statue is a symbol of injustice and the courthouse is a place of justice. The confederates were traitors to the Union and fought to maintain slavery and oppression as a grotesque means of agricultural production and as a means to maintain wealth. The confederate statue must be removed. It belongs in a Museum of Horrors.

ace10

Two serious questions... Do you think that the soldiers who are memorialized by the statue enjoyed the ill-gotten gains of slavery? Do you think that the conscription (draft) absolves soldiers of any guilt?

Constitution

Yes. They could have defected to the North.

ace10

After conscription was enacted, the punishment for desertion was death.

amerigirl

Ace same for the underground railroad, but they took their chances. What makes you think they didn't benefit from it?

Guest

The Evening Post, the New York Tribune, and other anti-slavery journals in this city are discharging themselves of such a mass of special and minute information about the movements of slavers, and the activity of the slave trade in New York, New London, New Bedford and Boston, that it seems highly probable they are stockholders or secret agents in the business.

These ports, in which the slavers are fitted out belong to the most rabid anti-slavery States, and there can be no doubt that the vessels are the property of the Republicans in those several places. The profits of the trade are so great that they can well afford to contribute a hundred thousand dollars or more towards the election of an anti-slavery President [Lincoln]. From lists published a short time ago In the Post and Tribune, it appeared that eighty-six* slavers had Sailed from this port and the other ports we have mentioned, and from other cases since reported, the number cannot be now far short of one hundred sail. The net proceeds on a cargo of five hundred slaves are at the lowest estimate $100,000, which is only an average profit of $200 per head. The sum of the profits of the “blackbird fleet” at one hundred vessels would therefore amount to ten millions of dollars, and this estimate makes an allowance of five million for expenses and losses.

From facts and figures it is evident that it is a most profitable, prosperous business, and accordingly we are informed by the Post that steamships are about to give new activity to the traffic, and that they will be packed with some 3,000 negroes, whose aggregate prices would sum up about a million of dollars. One instance is mentioned by both our anti-slavery contemporaries, of 450 negroes being landed on the 30th of June from an American bark, and sold publicly in the streets of Trinidad at an average of $650 each. The gross proceeds of this cargo would be $292,500, which, for one hundred “blackbirds.” Would amount to upwards of twenty-nine millions of dollars, leaving a clear profit of from twenty to twenty-five million. It is added, in the Post, that the Governor of Trinidad received in this transaction $30,000 hush money.

Now, it may be fairly asked, how those who are not implicated or interested in the trade themselves can be so well posted in this matter of bribery, or make up the lists of slavers which have appeared in their journals? How can they be so minutely informed of the names of the vessels, their captains, the ports from which they have sailed, the number of slaves they land, the prices received for them, and the “hush money” to corrupt Governors, unless they are secret partners in the trade? If they are possessed of all this information, they must have known of the fitting out of every vessel before she sailed. Why did they not give information to the authorities before the bird had flown, unless they had an interest in concealing her flight till it was too late. Once these ships bare made their voyages and landed their cargoes, and the owners have realized fortunes, they or their agents may then inform the public that such operations were made, the legal evidence against those concerned being no longer in existence.

They can thus afford to be severe in their denunciations of the slave traffic, and call it “infernal,” having the prices of the Africans in their pockets, or snugly deposited to their credit in banks, and they can also afford to bleed copiously for the purchase of campaign documents to secure the election of Old Abe Lincoln. Like sleek Joseph Surface, in the “School for Scandal,” who zealously preached up sentiments of morality to his wild brother Charles at the very moment that he had Sir Peter Teazle’s wife concealed for a criminal purpose in his room, the anti-slavery loaders are most enthusiastic against the slave traffic at the very time that they are enjoying its profits and doing a thriving business In human flesh.

Voltaire

Good post. Interesting material![thumbup]

Lawman

Breaking News you LOCO racist, something new to cry about. NASCAR just banned confederate flags at their events. I was working on that this week. Brian, this is what getting stuff actually done looks like. Just like to say, the confederate flag will not be televised no mo!!! Do I need to say it, The Revolution Will Be Televised!! Get off my grass!

Guest

Lawman- You try so hard to hang with the intellectuals on LT but never bring up any valid points or arguments backed by facts. Just threats and passive aggressive behavior. It’s sad to witness and we see right through you. As for NASCAR, I can’t wait to see how that goes over. Lmao!

Voltaire

I don't see any reference to West Virginia. Did you get fired from the West Virginia Department of Tourism? [lol]

pual mase

Lawman

What you see as accomplishments are sad, symbolic gestures that don’t meaningfully help anything, except your ego. You want real change......focus on helping keep minority families together, encourage education, employment, fight the inner city drug culture, stop glorifying thuggery, etc.

That’s the hard stuff that matters, not censorship, statues, kneeling on command, protesting, rioting and shouting.

IanXDm

If it's that big of a deal, I will proudly display it in my front yard.

Guest

If we're going to go after Confederate symbols and Christopher Columbus, do you think we could do something about the SLAVE OWNER on Washington State's flag? See www.waflag.com

loudouncommonsense

I'll bet a statue glorifying a notorious "union buster", and the anti-labor movement of the 20's-40's (often backed by local pols and the police) wouldn't last very long outside the headquarters of the UAW.

It all comes down to the question of "Why maintain a symbol in the public square that is hurtful?" Do you want to cause emotional and cultural harm when it's possible to avoid it?

Guest

Call me a cockeyed optimist but I had hoped that my neighbors were at least more human than what I have read in these comments. Such hate and vitriol over monuments is sad and leads me to believe our country is hopelessly fractured. Frankly, as a student of history, I would be sad to see these statues removed. However, not enough to curse my neighbors or stomp down their beliefs. You don't like the BOS? Organize, build a worthwhile agenda and vote.

Constitution

Confederate statues do not belong in front of a statehouse or courthouse. Those are institutions of law and justice. The statues are monuments to a culture of slavery, a slave-driven economy, and injustice to basic human rights. They belong in a museum detailing our history of slavery and secession, not hiding the ugly truth behind the "glory" of war and those traitors who fought against the Union.

Voltaire

How about the Old Bailey Statue of Justice?

ace10

Are you okay with the other memorials? If so, why?

Guest 2

no one was found guilty of being a traitor. another false statement

Lawman

Building a big catapult to launch that sucker either into the Potomac River or if lucky into Maryland. This effort will be televised. Any Confederate sympathizers that want to ride it on that epic flight can enter the Ride the Statue lottery. The Revolution Will Be Televised!!!!

Guest

Woke Taliban demands removal of all heretic items! Books burning coming soon.

Jeanne T

Well, those advocating for "revolution" are pretty much of the same mindset. Maybe we should identify "lawman" as a jihadi. Because that's how he talks.

Guest

Fu fling you into the potoma ass wipe

KK153

The Potomac River is Maryland...there is no or.... Seems your knowledge of geography is on par with you knowledge of history.

Lawman

Man this is great stuff. Guest I will save you a seat cuz. This Revolution Will Be Televised!!! 😆

Voltaire

Lawman--you should count your lucky stars that this is America. In other parts of this world, like Europe, your "revolution" would be met with unlimited military force and water cannons. BTW, over there, the police don't really care what they have to do to suppress rioters. Think about that, no?

Jeanne T

And what makes you think the anarchists and "revolutionaries" would leave you alone. You sound like you are willing to sit back and watch your neighbors being murdered if it comes to that.

Guest

Fu lawman ,i guess youre head will explode nov 3 when Trump wins again.

Guest

Lawman is dumb as a rock. He suspect he is a 12 year old black kid Woodbridge.

Jeanne T

It's already being televised, from coast to coast. And you are advocating for bloodshed.

Guest

This dude watches too much CNN, MSNBC, etc. no doubt lawman was posting all over the internet about Russia, impeachment, Kavanaugh. Now he is fanning the flames of racism just like the liberal media. I will just continue to avoid all black people like normal.

Lawman

Man Jeff Davis laying on his head in Richmond. This is a great day. Racist trader should have been catapulted into the river like we are going to do with the confederate participation trophy in Leesburg. See ya. And it will all be televised!!

ace10

Traitor. I award thee a participation trophy for spelling.

Voltaire

Maybe we should do like other countries would do and impose a nationwide blackout of the "televised revolution" and any associated social media. The Chinese Communist Party does it all the time and it works pretty effectively. Let's see how much traction this "revolution" would get then without an audience.

Guest

Sadly, the paper doesn't mention the many individuals that have loudly noted their displeasure in the removal of this monument. The oldest monument in Loudoun County. The courthouse lawn is filled with monuments representing every war, the only one missing is the Union monument. Why? The few individuals championing this side of the Civil War, in our County, have not taken the initiative to make its representation. They have had ample opportunity and backing of BOS funds to do so. It takes a lot of hard work & organization to erect a monument. Ask the individuals that erected the Revolutionary War Monument. But no, they are looking for a much easier route by just tearing down the Confederate monument....right Phyllis? Stacking the BOS deck so that you are surrounded by like minded Phyllis' individuals who have a personal agenda vs.actually listening to your constituents? History right or wrong cannot be rewritten and tearing down this monument is going to do nothing but create a larger divide in this already broken society. Every act of misgovernment tells upon the world. It does not end with the wrong inflicted but spreads itself to every side and gives birth to an endless train of mighty results. Conveniently we are being lied to and illegally locked down in a political stunt while the media diverts its attention away from covering Clinton and Obamagate. Laws are not being enforced and law abiding citizens are required to wear a mask so Anifia is also unrecognizable. Racism has been thrown into a fan the flames, in which for the most part is non existent, but not what the media wishes you to believe. We have paid and incited "out of state rioters" roll into our County and picketing on the Courthouse lawn. They are given free reign to climb and deface our monument, in the name of George Floyd, while the Sheriff Department (and monument supporters) stand by and watches this unlawful act unfold.(Yes against the law to deface, or vandalize a monument) Is the Governor or Mayor restoring the law? No the Governor is too busy demonizing the law enforcement officers. The removal of our monuments is illegal until July 1st when the changed law takes effect. Meanwhile protesters deface our landmarks and burn our towns & loot our businesses. Businesses already devastated by the virus restriction lock downs imposed on us. (BTW you can thank BOS CHAIR Phyllis Randall for our extension of shut downs as well as monument removal) If that doesn't put someone over the edge, as we are herded like sheep in the "Nanny State" we are now in, you now have to face another dilemma were 3 out of 5 of our Loudoun County BOS are ready to take away something else from us. Enough Phyllis and party.

Constitution

How about erecting a monument to justice in front of the courthouse, rather than a symbol of the confederacy that fought to maintain a slave-driven economy and gave black people no rights or even human dignity?

Voltaire

How about a statute of General John Campbell, the 4th Earl of Loudoun? This county is named after him after all.

Guest1

Guest comment 6/10/20 3:39 pm, THANK YOU. I appreciate your comments. You said it very well. You make sense!

KK153

There is a small cemetery maybe 1/4 a mile from my house in western loudoun. maybe 500 graves. every memorial day and every veterans day the graves of the 20 of so confederate soldiers buried there have a confederate flag placed next to their gravestone. nobody is offended.

if this does offend you, please stay east of goose creek and feel free to pontificate of all the PC things you want while your own neighborhoods turn into 3rd world S holes. Leave western loudoun alone please...we don't want you or need you.

Voltaire

KK153--I agree/appreciate the sentiment behind your first paragraph. However, your claim that western Loudoun "...don't want you or need you." is a tad elitist and wrong. Remember Western Loudoun's effort(s) to establish Catoctin County? Those efforts failed because you didn't have the Eastern Loudoun support because, as Nancy Meissner, co-chairman for Citizens for Catoctin County, stated in an open letter to Fredericksburg.com website..."but because there are more voters in the east, western Loudoun residents are outvoted when it comes to the issues that concern us the most. You don't have the votes to do things as the votes are concern us the most."

KK153

agreed.. Eastern Loudoun will continue to vote to steal/confiscate the wealth of western Loudoun and re-distribute it back to the Eastern end of the county on ESL classes, free lunch programs, free housing, etc... It's much like two lions and a lamb voting on what's for lunch. Elitism has nothing to do with it.

KK153

put it to a county wide vote.. that way we can all see where we stand.

Voltaire

This idea won't happen as it is too reasonable.

ace10

Note to LTM editor: Your headline is flat out incorrect. The object under discussion is not a "Confederate monument." It is a MEMORIAL dedicated to Confederate soldiers. This is not a minor difference, nor is it a tomayto tomahto thing, either.

RandomName2019

It's a memorial dedicated to Confederate soldiers that was erected at a time when the proliferation of Confederate imagery was being used to perpetuate Jim Crow laws. If you want to just be a racist, own it. Just say you want to keep it up because you're proud of it. Don't make excuses and don't make up history to justify why you want it.

ace10

If you cant go two sentences without calling me a "racist," then I truly am for sorry for you. Your life must be a really sad place.

I have no dog in this fight. I was born in the North and my family emigrated to America in the mid 20th century. I moved to VA thirty something years ago. But I do care about pushing back against stupidity, laziness and most of all.... woke-ness.

If you're offended by a memorial, I can only imagine the other sorts of things which trigger you and your kind.

Guest

The monuments were usually a substitute for a gravesite for soldiers who did not cone home. In that era, a "good death" included family presence around the dying, and families of war dead were excluded from that important process. These memorials often used a generic soldier or a general who represented the leadership the soldiers had. And given the hardships of Reconstruction, the widows and orphans and other community members were often not able to fund and commission a memorial right away. Read "This Republic of Suffering" by Drew Gilpin Faust for an academic treatment of this subject.

Additionally, the memorial gives the names of soldiers who served Loudoun County, does it not? Removing the memorial removes THEM, and rejects their descendants. It also assumes the motivations of Virginia's sons, many of whom owned no slaves and felt that their state was being invaded. Leave the memorial; provide historically accurate context if you wish. But it is not for us to erase them.

ace10

Good post. I hope no one calls you a racist for composing it.

Guest

What is next? tear down the Jefferson Memorial,Washington Monument, change the name of DC, remove faces from Mt Rushmore?? where does it stop. Hate the South because of slavery? What about Africa who made and sold slaves in the first place???

Guest

“Africa who made and sold slaves in the first place” what are SMOKING?? Do you honestly think that Europeans went to Africa and asked kindly for their labor and that Africans just complied? They were FORCED to the America’s where they were lynched and tortured and enslaved and murdered by Europeans. I’m not sure If I have read a more problematic statement. All practices upheld proudly by the confederacy.

In terms of your comments about the monuments in DC, those contexts are far different than commemorating a confederate soldier in front of a COURTHOUSE. Where justice is supposed to be upheld...clearly something lacking, particularly for minorities in this country. I would implore you to try and put yourself in their shoes, and what it would feel like to have someone glorified who actively advocated for your enslavement. Put monuments in museums for history, not in proud display to the public.

Voltaire

Guest--actually the historical record states that African chiefs did sell tribesmen into slavery. It is widely established in Africa itself. In Ghana, politician and educator Samuel Sulemana Fuseini has acknowledged that his Asante ancestors accumulated their great wealth by abducting, capturing, and kidnapping Africans and selling them as slaves. Likewise, Ghanaian diplomat Kofi Awoonor has written: “I believe there is a great psychic shadow over Africa, and it has much to do with our guilt and denial of our role in the slave trade. We too are blameworthy in what was essentially one of the most heinous crimes in human history.”

Also, in 2000, at an observance attended by delegates from several European countries and the United States, officials from Benin publicized President Mathieu Kerekou’s apology for his country’s role in “selling fellow Africans by the millions to white slave traders.” “We cry for forgiveness and reconciliation,” said Luc Gnacadja, Benin’s minister of environment and housing. Cyrille Oguin, Benin’s ambassador to the United States, acknowledged, “We share in the responsibility for this terrible human tragedy.”

Megan

Boom!!!! Mic drop! Thank you Voltaire!

Lawman

Africans did capture and sale slaves and they should be condemned no doubt. But Americans took slavery to a monstrous level. Forget the killing, beating, splitting families, hard labor and other atrocities; European men raped so many black women that 20 plus percent of most African Americans DNA is European. Throw that dang thing in the Potomac River and anyone that supports it is free to go with it. This Revolution is being televised!!!!

Jeanne T

Europeans didn't just land on the shores of Africa and kidnap Africans. African tribes sold other tribes into slavery to the Europeans. Furthermore, Africans were being enslaved long before the Transatlantic Slave Trade. The TransSaharan Slave Trade predated the Transatlantic Slave Trade by 700 years, and affected a very large part of the world. The Ottomans raided European coastal villages as well, taking women and children, and killing the men. The women were put into harems. This is why you will still see blue-eyed people in the Middle East. It's possible you could even have distant relatives in the Middle East. You can see paintings of the time of the Arab slave markets and the harems, which were filled with Christian women. Slavery still exists in the Middle East; there has never been an abolition movement within Islam.

LoudounPulse

I wonder if there will be calls to burn down Mount Vernon. After all, Washington was a slave owner and he worked his slaves to the bone for his enrichment.

Lets see how many Democrats jump on that bandwagon.

Jayhawk

Washington fought against the United States!?!?

Who knew?

Jeanne T

Washington's wife had slaves. Jefferson had slaves. So did many of the signers of the Declaration of Independence and The Constitution. So why shouldn't Mount Vernon and Monticello be closed?

UnrelatedGuest

It should but it won't be. Constitution lol. You do realize that there are over 100 if not 1000 laws all throughout the U.S. that undermine and contradict contradict the very exact protections the Constitution is suppose to protect us from?

ace10

The Supremacy Clause says otherwise.

Voltaire

Unrelated Guest--why should Mount Vernon and Monticello be closed? I find it extremely disturbing that it appears to me that the Old World (Europe) has more tolerance/understanding of history than this country.

KK153

Washington fought against the legal sovereign to whom he was a subject of. he was no more or less a traitor than Lee.

Jeanne T

KK153, I'm not at all advocating the closing down of Mount Vernon or Monticello. But, who knows if these places are next?

Voltaire

Actually, all of America's Founding Fathers were actively committing high treason against the British Crown, since America was still a British colony. The punishment for the crime of High Treason was to be hung by the neck until dead.

Guest

Washington fought against the government which technically made him a traitor also. The only difference was he won his war in spite of lukewarm support from his countrymen. Secession was not illegal and they weren’t trying to overthrow the federal government.

Voltaire

Guest--no, Washington fought against the military forces of His Majesty, George III. At the time of the Revolutionary War, there was no United States and no Federal Government. This country was a colony under the control of the British Empire and yes, treason against the Crown (rebellion/secession) was very illegal and resulted in a punishment of hanging.

ace10

If you care to learn about how the people of Germany have "honored" or "memorialized" their men (and women) who fought in WW2, please check out thirdreichruins.com/memorials

I have no affiliation with the site, but found it useful for the purposes of this discussion.

There are dozens of plaques, statues, and memorials dedicated to the German people who fought and died in WW2. Trying to make an argument against a statue in Loudoun which is dedicated to Confederate soldiers by claiming there aren't any Hitler statues is intellectually dishonest.

Guest

Truth, Ace. I visited one in the early 1990s. It had a gallery of photographs of each local individual, some military in uniform and some civilians killed in Allied bombing raids. Each is remembered. Let's not erase Loudoun's Civil War dead.

Guest1

Well let's see if this comment is shown. LEAVE ALL STATUES! YOU CANNOT ERASE HISTORY.

Jayhawk

Have you ever heard of the Roman Empire?

If so, how did you learn about it with no statues of Caesar in Loudoun?

KK153

never been to Rome I see.

ace10

Connecting the (obvious and for good reason) lack of a J. Caesar statue in Loudoun to the removal of a memorial to Loudoun's Confderate soldiers? That's an even poorer attempt at an argument that the fellow trying to connect the scattered dots to Hitler. But not by much.

UnrelatedGuest

Look get over it. It should be taken down. Confeds lost the war. Never in history have I ever seen the losing team still get a parade or trophy.

ace10

If you haven't seen them, then you should open your eyes. Nations memorialize their soldiers all around the world, regardless of whether they "won" or "lost." For example, kindly look up the Yasukuni Shrine in Japan. War criminals, and all.

Bud

You must not be familiar with kids soccer. Participation trophy.

Guest

Move the statue out to balls bluff cemetery

Fairmont

That would be an excellent site.

Guest

Balls Bluff is the National Cemetery for Union soldiers. Suggesting that this Confederate Memorial be placed at Balls Bluff shows a complete lack of understanding history.

Voltaire

What's wrong with putting into the Loudoun Museum?

Jeff Mach

I don't care about the statue. I do care about a memorial to the Loudounders who died in the civil war. It can (should?) be contextualized.

But the notion of honoring the dead of all the other wars but the most deadly war in the history of the USA sounds unreasonnable.

Guest

I totally agree with Jeff!

Richard Norman

I was at the Courthouse on Memorial Day. I noticed there were an equal number of Union and Confederate troops from Loudoun. Why can’t this statue honor both? As I recall there is no “stars and bars” on it to represent the Confederacy. Or if there is something and I missed it, why not a Union soldier to balance it out. This monument is not to a specific person but to a group of people. So why not just honor all and be done with it?

Edward Fillery

How can you take down Confederate statues without taking down the Union ones? The Union committed atrocities during the war, as did the Confederates. They targetted civilians -- in Leesburg and Loudoun, no less. Take them ALL down!

Voltaire

Edward Fillery--actually you have a valid point. For instance, in August 1864, supreme Union commander Ulysses S. Grant ordered Sheridan to “do all the damage to railroads and crops you can… If the war is to last another year, we want the Shenandoah Valley to remain a barren waste.” Sheridan set to the task with vehemence, declaring that “the people must be left nothing but their eyes to weep with over the war” and promised that, when he was finished, the valley “from Winchester to Staunton will have but little in it for man or beast.” However, I do think that they would be best suited in a Civil War battlefield.

anotherGuest

Don't forget the atrocities committed in our own county! The scars from the burning raids still pepper the land. The memorial does not belong at Ball's Bluff for it is not a monument to the CSA but rather a memorial to Loudoun veterans

Guest

They were traitors. Do you not see a difference?

Voltaire

Yes, I can see a difference. The point that was being made was that the Union Army did commit some actions, during its execution of the war effort, that would qualify as atrocities. As I shown, there were some performed. However, the Confederacy did so as well. That was the nature/tactics of warfare from 1861-1865.

Jayhawk

So you also want the Vietnam War Memorial removed because of the My Lai massacre?

The statue honors traitors to the USA who were fighting to retain the practice of human enslavement of African Americans. It was erected in the Jim Crow era specifically to intimidate African American citizens. Arguing for its continued place of honor in front of our courthouse is arguing to sustain its putrid message to current-day citizens, and is an affront to all Americans.

Voltaire

Jayhawk--I didn't say that I wanted to remove the Vietnam Veteran's Memorial. Stop putting words in my mouth. I was simply affirming that both the Union and the Confederacy committed war atrocities during the war from 1861-1865. That was how warfare worked back then. That's it.

ace10

Please learn about the Confederate Conscription Act. For many, the options were limited.

Fairmont

Times change. Look at all the statues of Lenin and Marx that were toppled in the 1990s. Monuments should reflect things we are currently proud of and hopefully of universal understanding...things like people who give their precious lives to save another or who through selfless work and sacrifice help all of humanity. When times change, the monuments to division (our side/your side) and hate should be relegated to where they do need to be, historical context lest we forget our mistakes and past evil.

Voltaire

I think there still is a statute of Lenin in Seattle.

Jeanne T

You can take down all the statues you want, but none of these actions will resolve anything or bring "peace". It's only going to continue to escalate. We are now a nation of lawlessness.

Now BlackLivesMatter protesters in Seattle have stormed city hall and taken over; they have driven out the police and demanded the mayor resign. Thousands are moving in.

In Portland, Oregon, a sanctuary city with a progressive mayor named Ted Wheeler, a plywood wall is going up around City Hall, after Wheeler proclaimed, "Let's build bridges, not walls. Work together, not against each other." He once proclaimed, "Walls are racist." But it isn't bridges being built. It's now walls.

No Escape

It is a shame that our President has so mishandled this moment. Relying on the one trick in his bag--double down on any wedge in the culture war--he's made this much worse and given the protest legs it would not have had had he responded like a grown up when this first began. But we've seen this before...in fact many are stuck at home watching this unfold because of the inept happy-talk that was the only national plan for a pandemic. This BLM thing will peter out over the next week or so having made significant progress in changing attitudes but Trump's malevolent incompentence is with us until next January. Let's hope Korea or Iran doesn't decide this is a great moment to stick it to the US

pual mase

The BLM/NAACP supported by the left and media made this a wedge in the culture war. It is a case of a bad cop that killed a criminal suspect that is now being tried for murder. This was conflated to promote a dishonest systemic racism claim.

It was further conflated to protests and riots aided and abetted by liberal politicians and the media.

Trump spoke the truth and stood up for law and order unlike the dishonest, pandering democrats.

Lawman

Oh you white dudes are so lost and racist you think all Black people are the same. BLM and the NAACP are too wholly different organizations. I know it’s hard for racist trash to understand that, but that’s the fact Jack!!! The Revolution Is Still Being Televised!!! BTW anybody see where that Christopher Columbus statue went in Richmond. General Lee next!!

Guest

It is disgusting how jealous misfits try to blame the POTUS for everything.

Guest2

That incompetent misfit in white house doesn’t know his head from his ass. He IS to blame for a lot of the issues that we have going on today.

Jeanne T

"This BLM thing will peter out over the next week"

"BLM thing"? How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you trivialize BLM? BLM isn't going to "peter out", any more than ANTIFA and its anarchists are going to go away any time soon. You haven't heard what's happening in Seattle and Portland?

World Chaos

So what is the solution? Vote for Biden? We are living in a chaotic world.

Voltaire

Lawman--cute, as I have said before, you should be grateful that you are in the USA, not other parts of the world. In other parts of the world, the government would have called in the military and your "revolution" would have been properly squashed by troops. In these situations, they don't care about your rights; just to quell the insurrection. You would have been met with armored vehicles and water cannon. Want to mess with a water cannon? What happened to Columbus's statute is a violation of law and the responsible parties should be arrested/punished. As to the statute of General Lee, Governor Northam, not you or your revolutionary "comrades" has a say in the matter. The removal of the statute is under judicial review as someone challenged the removal in the Circuit Court for the City of Richmond. So, it isn't going anywhere fast.

Guest

I agree that removing statues will not resolve anything, but I believe they should ALL be left. Because of a few we are going to try to erase history. Why can't we view those monuments as reminders of where we came from and to be better going forward. All history does not bring joy, but we can't forget where we came from. When I see something that reminds me of a wrong that has been done, I'm rinspired to ensure it doesn't happen again. We can't hide where we came from. Our children need to be educated about their country and where we were and what the founding fathers stood for. Praying that calm will prevail and our leaders will focus on today's youth and educate them on the greatness of our country and how far we have come.

Jeanne T

According to a Seattle-based “anarchist” currently located in the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone, homeless people reportedly “took away all the food” and they are desperate for supplies “to keep the area operational”. (For those of you who aren't well informed, the Seattle Police abandoned a precinct, which has now been christened the Seattle *People's* Department: East Precinct.) Now they are desperate for supplies:

Tweeted the anarchist: "We need more food to keep the area operational. Please if possible bring vegan meat substitutes - fruits, oats, soy products, etc. - anything to help us eat."

An autonomous zone in Seattle that has no ability to grow food or maintain any sort of self-sustaining society. Alas, collectivist utopias aren't easy to sustain. Just ask Josef Stalin.

BobOhneiserEsq

When will Loudoun voters demand to have the BOS deal with issues on a priority basis instead of what feels good to talk about gets top billing? The honest environment in Leesb urg during the Civil War was BOTH Confederate and Union soldiers fighting and dying in Leesburg, (Union Cemetery is just down the street from this statue). How hard would it be to install a second "UNION SOLDIER" monument of equal stature next to the confederate one instead of trying to erase history? How about some focus on the tax rate being too high, LCPS having no plan details on back to school virus issues, RT 15 expansion not even started, and no progress on high speed internet in rural areas? :-)

Guest

The environmental assessment, wetlands delineation and 30% design documents for phase 1 of the Route 15 expansion have been completed. A project update was presented during a May BoS meeting. The update can be easily found with a Google search. You'll be happy to know that the projected cost for phase 1 is now several million less than original projections.

The state just released guidelines which schools must follow when returning to in classroom teaching this fall. I'm not sure how you expected LCPS to have a detailed plan for the fall before the requirements they must meet were released by the state.

The BoS has approved the installation of dark fiber in western Loudoun which will be available for use by ISPs thus reducing the cost for establishing a network backbone in the western half of the county and making it more profitable for ISPs to provide service. While this might be a limited action the county is very much hampered by state law regarding what they can do to expand internet service to rural areas. However event his step is more than the solution you proposed while running for the BoS which was basically to gather the utilities together to hold hands and sing "Kumbaya, My Lord".

Considering your belief that taxes are too high I'm a little confused that your proposal to address the confederate soldier statue is for the county to spend money to erect a union soldier statue.

At least your post didn't include your usual rant about the parking lots at Dulles airport. That's progress.

Fiscalconservative

Interesting I thought the riots/protest were about the George Floyd killing how did it change to Confederate Monuments? The monuments remind us of our past and what we should not do again. We need these reminders to keep history from repeating itself. We have the holocaust museum to remind us of what happened so that we do not allow us to same mistake again. Whether or history is good or bad it is history.

Guest

Don't play dumb. The protests are not FOR Floyd. They are for a larger issue: unequal treatment. The statue is being lumped in with that. We can't address several things at once?

The monument/museum comparison is a false equivalency. The Holocaust Museum does not pay homage to Nazis. The Confederate monument absolutely does. Regally standing in front of the courthouse, it reads "In memory of the Confederate soldiers". Sure...let's memorialize and keep close in our hearts and minds these traitors to the United States.

pual mase

Hey Guest how can you say the confederate monument pays homage to Nazis is absurd. The Nazis didn’t appear in Germany until 70 years after American the civil war.

Your claim is even less credible than your claim that the protests are about unequal treatment. You and many others have convinced yourself of this despite no factual basis except misleading statistics that support the BLM lies.

Playing dumb seems to be your domain.

hardworkingamerican

And speaking of Byrd, is there another more evil racist liberal piece of garbage than him? KKK recruiter and racist extraordinary...YET...roads named after him, statues to him, parks named after him? SICK SICK SICK Randall is a loser and needs to step down. Liberals have championed racism and are the party of Jim Crow. Time to take down all of the lies and fake positions these liberals claim to have. You want it right? Take down ever statue anywhere in the state. ALL OF THEM. Everyone can be tied to some type of action that is offensive in history. Name all highway and roads numbers. Use letters and numbers for all highways and roads. Since we are not allowed to name where things came from then they just must be given a number. END OF STORY AND STOP THIS CRAP!

Guest

Well said hardworkingamerican.

Voltaire

Hardworkingamerican--which Byrd are you talking about? There is Harry Byrd who was a conservative who served as Virginia's governor from 1926 until 1930, then represented the Commonwealth as a United States Senator from 1933 until 1965. There are roads named after Harry Byrd which are appropriate as Harry Byrd did good things for Virginia when in office and that is the way the community recognized his efforts. I think you are talking about Senator Robert Byrd (D-WV). Robert Byrd, initially was a member of the KKK but later recanted and said that he was wrong to join the organization and was wrong about his early views on racial relations. The NAACP released a statement saying that over the course of his life he “became a champion for civil rights and liberties” and “came to consistently support the NAACP civil rights agenda.” So, he wasn't really a "racist extraordinary" but someone who reformed his viewpoint. There are many monuments to Robert Byrd as he did a lot of good for the people of West Virginia during his 50 years in the Senate. Nothing wrong with that either.

Jeanne T

But he was a Democrat. And never mind that the KKK was the military arm of the Democrat Party. What a legacy. Never mind that all the cities being burned and looted are Democrat/Progressive run. ALL of them. The Minneapolis City Council President, Lisa Bender, is busy pondering "collectivist reimagining" of public safety.When asked by Wolf Blitzer who will respond to a violent shooting if there's no police force, Ms. Bender replied she isn't sure, but she admitted that the Minnesota world of public safety will look quite different. Yes, once you get rid of the police, everything will look entirely different. That is the collectivist's imaginary world of "social justice."

Voltaire

Jeanne T--the fact that Robert Byrd was a Democrat is relevant how? As for the "KKK was the military arm of the Democratic Party" claim, that was during Reconstruction Period in the Southern United States. Further, the connection between Robert Byrd and how local governments in cities within areas of unrest isn't established either.

Jeanne T

The KKK is still the legacy of Democrats. I should have said it was the terrorist arm of the Democratic Party. And its activities continued into the 20th century. Also, I wasn't attempting to make a connection between Byrd and the unrest in our Democrat-controlled cities. However, if Byrd had been a Republican, his KKK connection would not be overlooked.

LeesburgFan

My suggestion is to move the statue to Balls Bluff Battlefield, it's a historic Civil War site where this statue should be. It's really a no-brainer.

Jessica Monte

Agree

pual mase

Do you really think the protest crowd will be satisfied with moving the memorial?

It will just invite the thugs to Balls Bluff to topple and spray paint.

Move It Off the Courthouse Lawn

Yes, Balls Bluff -- though a bit of a black eye for the Confederacy given how Union soldiers were shot in the river while retreating -- is the right spot for this monument.

Fairmont

Great idea. These relics of a sad history should be placed where they belong. Not in the face of everyone upon the current public square.

Voltaire

I like that approach. Respectful.

Duncan Idaho

Think about why these statues were placed outside courthouses and prominently displayed in cities throughout the South: To intimidate African Americans and remind them of their "place" in society. Statues are honorific and not historical and they have no place in the modern landscape. Take them down and put them in a museum.

It's not an erasing of history. Germany has no statues of Hitler and yet we still know about the Holocaust.

Guessed

Very true. These are relics of Jim Crow and the reclaiming of the racist past by those who returned to power after Reconstruction was thwarted by Andrew Johnson. Thankfully going to war to preserve a state's right to run forced labor camps was indeed a "lost cause."

ace10

You're trying to draw an equivalence between Adolf Hitler and a confederate soldier? Are you serious?

Further, there are actually dozens of memorials, statues and monuments across Germany dedicated to their men who served and lost their lives during WW2. Care to try again?

Duncan Idaho

I challenge you to find any monuments in Germany that celebrate Nazis and the Wehrmacht.

ace10

I challenge you to draw an ACTUAL equivalence. The inscription in Loudoun reads "In memory of the Confederate Soldiers of Loudoun County, Va. Erected May 28, 1908.” That's a memorial to people. Individuals who fought a war. Certainly not an ideology and not the military machine behind the ideology. That's zero for two (0 for 2). Care to go for a third swing?

Duncan Idaho

ace10: You sidestepped my question. You made a claim, I challenged you on it and you ignored it. You're probably 0 for about 1,000 in the LTM comments section.

Voltaire

Duncan--Sure. They aren't exactly uncommon. Most villages have one, generally located near the church or cemetery. A list of names of the soldiers from the village who died in the war. Bigger towns may have less specific memorials because of the greater number of soldiers who died. It is important to note that the German memorials, unlike American, British or Russian ones, do not honor the soldiers in the same sense. The Germans do not honor them for what they did for Germany, rather they mourn that they had to pointlessly die.

Voltaire

Ace--Munich, the capital of Bavaria, has a large war memorial to its fallen heroes of both World Wars. The memorial is in the form of a recumbent soldier beneath a large slab, located in front of the old Army Museum building on the Hofgarten (the building is now the Staatskanzlei).

ace10

Now you're deflecting. AND trying to move the goalposts.

We can try this a different way...

To which of the following is the memorial in Loudoun dedicated: (a) The Confederacy or (b) men who fought for the Confederacy.

Second, assuming you got the first one correct by answering (b), are the soldiers who fought on the side of the Confederacy MORE similar to (A) Adolph Hitler, (B) Nazism or (C) German soldiers who fought in WW2?

If you answered anything other than (b) and (C) then you are a hopeless fool. AND by answering correctly with (b) and (C) you have disproven your own suggestions from earlier.

I hope that helps you with your understanding.

Voltaire

Ace10--who are you saying is "deflecting and moving goalposts?"

Guest

Duncan Idaho, you do realize that the Wehrmacht was regular military, and not part of the Nazi hierarchy, right? I lived in Germany during the time that the Berlin Wall came down, and talked with an elderly neighbor about his experience. He made it very clear that his service in the Wehrmacht was not to support Hitler, but to protect his country. The village still wears RAF strafing to this day.

Interestingly, many Confederates were serving to protect their homes too... and this area saw occupation by one army or the other throughout the War.

Guest

Germany did preserve the Holocaust camps to prove they existed , so we would never forget. But yeah, let's deny slavery ever happened. I am sure racists would love that.

Guest

Eisenhower and Marshall made sure that the camps were preserved. Occupation does that.

Loudoun did recently preserve the slave burial grounds of Belmont Plantation. It was the right decision, even though it meant delay and expense to the Rt.7 expansion project at the interchange at Belmont Ridge.

springerdad

Take kit down and move it to a Civil war related area for display. The last thing we need are people like this here in Loudoun.

RICHMOND, VA. -- A statue of Christopher Columbus in Richmond has been torn down by protesters, set on fire and then submerged into a lake. News outlets report the figure was toppled less than two hours after protesters gathered in the city's Byrd Park Tuesday chanting for the statue to be taken down.

scottva

People like what? You can take down every damn statue and as long as you're white and do not subscribe to BLM's thought process you're still considered a racist. Maybe all white people should move out of loudoun. The last thing we need are people like this in Loudoun.

Jeanne T

How long do you think it will be before Monticello and Mount Vernon are also destroyed? After all, both Jefferson and Washington (well, Washington's wife) owned slaves. Tearing down a few statues isn't going to be enough.

ace10

Five days since LTM ran a Covid SCOREBOARD(tm) story. Did rioting cure it?

Get a Hobby

Please, I know you're cooped up in your trailer. baby needs shoes, credit didn't go through and you've just got nothing to do but pound on that keyboard composing resentment-fueled comments on the LTM. But man, you should find a hobby or something...

ace10

If I've got nothing better to do than post here on LTM (as you claim), then what does that say about you... who appears to be reading every word I write and then swiftly composing idiotic retorts? When real points are being brought up, ad hominem is not a winning strategy.

DavisB

And the win goes to the Dinosaur. Ace loses again in a stunning defeat

ace10

Hey DB, care to try again? I know the whole "reading comprehension" thing is a foreign concept to you, but you've entirely misread that sequence. Eesh. Use a ruler to line things up if you have to. And then read everything again real slowly. Let it sink in.

I've got an idea... maybe you could team up with that other infamous LTM half brain and develop an argument more compelling for removing a soldiers' memorial? He's flailing at some false equivalence with Hitler, or something.

amerigirl

Wow ace, Hobby hardly ever posts, so that was a pretty idiotic retort. Lost on that one

amerigirl

Poor ace. Now you want to use what other people have said about you and your "reading comprehension" on others, So sad. You need mommy don’t you? You have lost it.

ace10

And I meant every word of it.

ChocolateDinosaur

Classic. You made an account just to say that, lol. Time well spent, friend.

Jeanne T

It would appear so. LOL!

Guest

Why don’t we just take all Statues down. Starting with George Washington do you know he used slave teeth for his dentures. No joke. If everyone Fight over all these statues then let’s do away with all of them White Black no matter what color they are or what therefor. I am so tired of all the fighting over it

Voltaire

If you are going to go after George Washington, then you are opening a bigger quagmire than it is now because now the Government would have to remove George Washington, Ben Franklin, Alexander Hamilton off of the currency, redesign the currency, and recirculate it worldwide costing the taxpayers a boatload of money. For what, a "feel good moment"? Really?

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