UPDATE: Leesburg town attorney confirmed as 20th Circuit Court judge

Judge Jeanette Irby

A judge has rejected a request from a Loudoun County gun range that sought to loosen the restrictions imposed under Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam’s executive orders to mitigate spread of the coronavirus.

The injunction request filed by owners of the Silver Eagle shooting range is one of many that have been filed across the state challenging business closures. Nearly all of them have been turned aside, though one notable exception occurred in Lynchburg when a judge there ruled that closure of a gun range violated the constitutional right to bear arms.

Loudoun County Judge Jeanette Irby, though, reached a different conclusion than the judge in Lynchburg. Irby ruled Wednesday that Second Amendment protections extend to individuals, not gun ranges like Silver Eagle. And she said that an individual who also sued because he lost access to the range still had the ability to bear arms and to train on his firearm in other ways.

____________

Related:

-"Loudoun County business owner sues Northam over pandemic-related restrictions"

(180) comments

ace10

A woman is fearful of her ex. boyfriend, husband, girlfriend.. whatever. Sad situation.

She's afraid for her life. And she knows that the court's "protective" order that was issued isn't worth the paper it's printed on. This other person is dangerous.

So she goes out an invests in a handgun. In order to protect her life.

Only problem... she's never handled a handgun. Or fired one. She desperately want to learn and even apply for CCW. So she needs safety training.

Oh, and did I mention that she lives in Sterling. Or Leesburg. Or Ashburn and relies on public transportation and/or ridesharing for getting around?

She can't get to the outdoor ranges an hour away. And she certainly can't afford to buy 20 acres out in the country. (Two idiotic suggestions repeatedly mentioned here in the comments).

I guess she can just watch a Youtube video and hope for the best. Because that's her best (and only) option

Why do anti-2A people hate safety?

amerigirl

Wow that would have to happen with some incredible timing for all this to happen during the coronavirus emergency. Too many what if's, just call the cops on the guy.

ace10

Which part is too many ifs?

The worthless protective order?

The violent ex?

Purchasing a firearm for protection?

Not being able to drive an hour in each direction to practice in an outdoor range?

Call the cops.

If there ever was a cringe-inducing comment... that's it right there.

You're the poster child for elitism.

amerigirl

All of it. If she in an abusive relationship, if there was a pandemic, if she couldn't drive, just all of it. How does she get to go buy a gun if she can't get to a range, makes no sense? Of course, you have to call me a name because I won't agree that your scenario is within the realm of reality. Why so nasty?

ace10

Because you've got yours and nobody is allowed to do the same. Good grief. You're proving my point.

You can't imagine how somebody might legally acquire a firearm without travelling an hour to a range in Warrenton, or wherever else you THINK they would have to go.

There are licensed dealers everywhere. Many don't even have storefronts.

If something doesn't fit into your elite bubble. The one where you tell everybody to stay at home, because they might make you sick.

The one where you go out because you need to feel good by getting your SJW battle gear on.

The on where you tell others that they should have already exercised their 2A rights BEFORE a public health crisis. To heck with anybody who needs to do it now.

You've got yours. Right.

You have a place to shoot. Everybody else should do the same. Buy a farm!

Telling a victim to "call the cops" is perhaps the most Marie-Antoinette-style-Let-Them-Eat cake ever uttered.

Then in another story you will shout about how the cops are out of control.

You set new lows each and every day.

amerigirl

ace do you have a mental problem that makes you so focused on possibilities that you can't make rational statements, I'm pretty sure. I am dropping this conversation with you. type away all you want and try to justify all those iffy scenarios, but don't expect a reply from me your wasting my time.

ExitRamp

@ace10

---> "She can't get to the outdoor ranges an hour away."

How did she get to the gun shop? Walk?

There's nothing idiotic about traveling to an outdoor range. Clark's. Ever heard of it? 45 minutes from Sterling to Warrenton. They're very friendly there and will even help you out if you don't know what you're doing.

BTW, indoor ranges will be opening soon. Until then, use an outdoor range.

ace10

Uh, the Ashburn-based plaintiff IS a federally-licensed firearm dealer. Perhaps she bought it there.

Or at one of the two storefronts on Catoctin Circle in Leesburg.

Or from a private federally-licensed firearm dealer located near her.

Good grief.

ExitRamp

Your hypothetical. Just make it up as you go along. If it makes you feel better, sure.

amerigirl

How many scenarios are you up to now?

ace10

Run along now. Sorry that the truth triggered you.

Did you really think that the only federally-licensed firearms dealer was in Warrenton? Or are you simply embarrassed that you didn't know that that the Ashburn Plaintiff was one?

Either way, I have no issues with my scenario. If you do, then it's you who has the problem. What do you have against victims of domestic abuse, or low income households or anyone who simply wants to protect their family in a safe manner?

Nice try though!

ExitRamp

@ace10

Are you that dense? Clark's is an outdoor range where people can go to learn how to shoot. It's been there at least 50 years. I know because I first went there that long ago.

You're saying your hypothetical helpless girl can't get to an outdoor range but seems to have no problem getting to a gun store. Even if an indoor gun range was available, how would she get there since you think she wouldn't be able to get an outdoor range.

Get real, dolt.

amerigirl

Ace, what is wrong with you? You always try to get the last word by telling others to go away, like you are some master. Cool your jets bud you don’t own anyone and can’t tell them what to do. Does it matter about a federally-licensed firearms dealer when that is not what he was talking about? He was talking about outdoor firing ranges, DUH. Once again you change the facts so that you don’t need to wrong when you are clearly wrong. Then try to place blame for people not caring about some far-fetched scenario you presented. Nice try though.

ace10

Elitist think everyone has a car. Everyone should buy a farm.

Yes. People do save up their nickles and dimes to purchase a firearm. Elite Loudouners don't want to acknowledge that, though.

If someone was facing a life-or-death threat from an ex, the victim might even prioritize safety over other things in their life that cost money.

But yeah, tell them to "call the cops." Or haul yourself to another county to get trained on that firearm you just purchased.

Elitist trash.

amerigirl

Ace you are like the king of BS. Because someone doesn’t agree with you, you make up a name for them. Then Loudoun must be full of elitist who are driving around. People who save their nickels and dimes to buy a gun over a method of transportation to get to and from a job are idiots. That doesn’t make anyone else elite. Still persisting with the what if’s because you can’t admit that it was a farfetched scenario is crazy. Someone can manage to get themselves to a gun store to purchase a weapon but can’t manage to get somewhere to train. BS again. Go to a shelter if safety is that much of a concern. If you can haul yourself to a gun store you can haul yourself to an outdoor range just incase that 1 in a million scenario you predict happens. Do you even realize all the if’s you have projected? Don’t have transportation to a range, do have transportation to a gun shop, have an angry ex, be too broke to have transportation but still had enough money to buy a gun and pay for a ride there and back. Don’t believe the cops can help, fear for your life, and it all has to happen in the time period before the indoor ranges open since the coronavirus virus shutdown

ace10

Thank you for proving my point. You did so better than I ever could have.

hardworkingamerican

Gosh what the hell. Everyone quit their job or retire like "Amerigirl" so we can all go out and march and protest. Maybe even take over a few city blocks and then shake down the store owners for money just like in Seattle. What a great plan. To heck with paying taxes. Just starve everyone out of Virginia and when the taxation department comes knocking you can just show them your 2 body guards, Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson. What a bunch of hateful morons. What a bunch of idiots. Arm yourself. Protect yourself. Amerigirl and others here are all on board with de-funding and eliminating law enforcement. Can't wait until the looters show up at your door. Maybe if they do you can call "Coonman" Northam. If you don't like it. LEAVE!!

amerigirl

Hard, I didn’t quit my job, I retired. That’s what you do when you have worked hard all your life and paid into social security for over 50 years. I managed my money well so I could do so. I’m guessing you weren’t that smart? There were NO shake down the store owners for money in Seattle, did you even look at the claim? It was filled with so much nonsense. Look who reported it, PJ Media. When you look them up on fact checkers it says “Questionable based on extreme right-wing bias, promotion of propaganda and conspiracies as well as numerous failed fact checks.” Is this your source of information? If so then you are living a lie. Why are you using me as an example? You still haven’t looked up what defunding the police means have you? Hon, calm down, the US isn’t under attack, the only person calling for armed forces is trumpster. Nobody is coming to your door, why would they? Again with the racist slur, shame on you for not knowing the facts on that either. It sounds like yu are the one that doesn’t like it here, maybe you should LEAVE!!

Loudoun1965

No shakedown? The "citizens" of CHAZ/CHOP just told each of the white people to pay a black person $10.00.

amerigirl

NO that was a challenge put forth by one person, not a demand from the group. It wasn't a shakedown, it was a challenge to see how committed they were. I see the right wing NY Post and PJ Media said it was a demand, but watch the video, wasn't even close. More along the lines of the Fox news enhanced video, or completely wrong videos to make something seem what it's not.

ace10

LIAR.

The City Journal, which is totally unlike the NYP and PJM, published the following:

"At one evening event, an indigenous-rights activist with a purple bandana wrapped around his face announced a campaign for immediate small-scale reparations: “I want you to give $10 to one African-American person from this autonomous zone,” he said to a large crowd gathered on a baseball field. “White people, I see you. I see every one of you, and I remember your faces. You find that African-American person and you give them $10.”"

ANNOUNCED A CAMPAIGN.

"... give then $10."

Stop lying.

Loudoun1965

amerigirl, you literally just proved my point. White people have to pay black people $10.00 to prove how "committed" they are to what? If a person came to my business and said I had to pay that person $10.00 to prove I was "committed" to having him or her as a customer, that is by definition a shakedown. Do you pay your husband money to prove to him how "committed" you are to your marriage?

amerigirl

You still don’t understand the difference between a challenge and a demand. When I worked with a union, they challenged us to support the United Way with a donation. You could not be forced; it was a show of commitment. How does that prove your point of saying it was demanded? How does 1 man’s opinion become a referendum for a group? That is not a shakedown, a shakedown is like when you have to pay a gang for protection to be able to keep your shop open, Please learn the difference.

ace10

ANNOUNCED. A. CAMPAIGN.

And then threatened the white people. Then demanded $10.

It's right there. You're lying and can't help yourself.

amerigirl

Ace, you need to calm down. There was no demand, watch the video. Why are you lying about this stuff when it is so easy for people to watch the video?

ace10

Caught in a lie, and then tripling down on it.

You should contact City Journal and have them correct the story.... that the white people *weren't* threatened* and that they *weren't* extorted.

amerigirl

Ace, according to you everyone in the world that does't agree with you is a liar. BS and so old. Look at the video. right wing publications write their version of what they think it is.

ace10

You're an idiot. City Journal is not a "right wing publication."

You've now quadrupled down on a lie. Congrats on the achievement!

amerigirl

Ace, I don't care what you think an incomplete statement means to you. Get the entire statement from the video, half a truth is a lie. so you are the liar!

ace10

Think about how sick one's thought process has to be in order to support shoulder-to-shoulder protesting during a pandemic (nevermind the unlawful rioting and looting), but be vehemently against having full access to firearm training.

It boggles the mind.

There are thousands of first-time firearms owners in every town, city and county in Virginia. And their access to safety training is being artificially limited.

Not everyone has ten or twenty acres of land and a close friend who can show them the basics of firearm safety and usage.

Not everyone has the ability to drive an hour or more to an outdoor range.

I wish i could say I was shocked to read some of the comments to this story. But I'm not.

ace10

Attaching another quick thought to this post:

An LTM commenter defended their participation in the mass protest gathering in DC two weeks ago because, they said, if it saves even one life it will be worth it. They obviously felt that the risk of Covid transmission was low enough that the virtue signaling exercise was warranted.

Well, do you suppose that access to firearm training might "save one life?" An ACTUAL life.

Be wary of anyone who advocates for limiting the rights and freedom of others while wanting to retain every last bit of their own.

amerigirl

mask, Once again you are lying and not paying attention to facts. You have a problem, bring it. Yes I did participate, I wore a N95 mask, I quarantined for 2 weeks after. Yes if it saves even 1 life it matters. You don't seem to understand that the Metro area is in Phase 1, You don't even need a mask when outside, but not by your rules? Your little off the mark rant is the real virtue signaling.

You can get access to firearm training at an outdoor range if you feel it is that important to have it right away. You must not think that black lives are ACTUAL lives, shame on you.

Then again you called me a liar for saying that I quarantined and my husband did the shopping because you said he was sick, yep, according to you, my husband who got covid at the end of March was supposedly still sick the first week of June because you wanted to try to prove I was lying. How stupid is that? I have not advocated for limiting anyone's rights that have not met with the phase of the openings. Again you lie and again you're wrong.

Virginia SGP

So explain how coronavirus works. Did you put your husband (and thus all people he encountered since 30-50% of the cases can be asymptomatic) by marching and exposing yourself in the march?

Or does recovery from coronavirus confer immunity like it does with all other diseases?

Can we at least get an admission that you potentially murdered elderly folks by exposing them or that this hysterical reaction in which even recovered COVID patients are dangerous is ridiculous?

ace10

You'd rather there be new gun owners who can't get safety trained than admit that you're a hypocrite.

People with a family.

A woman who might have a stalker.

Someone who owns their own business and has to carry cash.

What if is new gun owner doesn't have a car? They're gonna do what.. take an uber to Warrenton? Berryville? Good idea. When there's a range with instructors right in the middle of Ashburn.

Oh, right. They can run out and spend $500K for 20 acres, secure financing, get to closing, and then find somebody to come out and train them. Duh.

You're an elitist and don't really care about anyone but yourself. You beat your chest over protesting (virtue signaling at its absolute worst) but to heck with everybody else. You got yours, right? You're all set. How many Guardsmen contracted Covid because of you and your clan of phonies.

springerdad

AG - I love how you quote Phase 1 rules and tell people they don't understand the rules.

Here are the rules that you broke.

LIFTING OF STAY-AT-HOME ORDER; CONTINUED PROHIBITION ON

GATHERINGS OF MORE THAN TEN (10) INDIVIDUALS

2. When leaving their residence, all individuals must continue to maintain a distance

of at least six (6) feet from persons not in their household, except if such distance

is impossible to maintain (such as when obtaining medical services or a haircut).

3. Wearing a mask or face covering is one tool to protect an individual's own health

and the health of others, but it does not replace social distancing. DOH guidance

relating to masks must be followed, as must the applicable orders of any regulatory

agency for a specific activity. Such directives may be found on

coronavirus.dc.gov/phaseone.

4. Paragraphs 1 through 6 of Section II of Mayor's Order 2020-054 ordering persons

to stay at home are repealed.

5. Large gatherings of more than ten (10) individuals continue to be prohibited in the

District, with the same caveats and exceptions set forth in prior Orders.

amerigirl

Ace, why couldn’t a new gun owner get safety training? If the gunowner doesn’t have a car how would they even get to an indoor range? Try Bull Run. But still if you don’t have transportation you aren’t going anywhere. Maybe stop buying guns and buy a clunker. How extreme your relies are, go buy 20 acres???

Sure, I’m an elitist when it is you saying that everyone should make accommodations for you so you can go shoot your gun. I believe that fits your narrative more than mine. Definitely a new righty-tighty talking point the virtue signaling thing. Most guardsmen and women were not wearing face masks during the protests, maybe they should have followed directions.

amerigirl

SGP, really, I guess you really don’t know how it works. When I went almost everyone except law enforcement was wearing a mask. I didn’t get it probably because of that. On top of that my husband is an essential worker so he is exposed every day. With my medical problems we can’t get very close to each other anyway. We have separate bed and bathrooms and social distance at home, but I did shower and change clothes when I got home. They don’t know about immunity yet, he (actually his blood) is in a study through NIH as we type. You would have to be an idiot to think I even came close to murdering anyone, how pathetic of a reach was that? Who said recovered COVID patients are dangerous? They have found people who have recovered that still have active virus without anti-bodies though. But as far as I know recent studies say they are not contagious. According to Bloomburg’com, Researchers are finding evidence that patients who test positive for the coronavirus after recovering aren’t capable of transmitting the infection, and could have the antibodies that prevent them from falling sick again.

ace10

Ouch. There's gonna be some serious contortions required to squirm out from under that load of facts.

amerigirl

Springer , Nope, 2) except if such distance is impossible to maintain. You follow police orders to go where they say. 3) I wore a mask, followed guidelines set by DC for the protest. 4) Yes, the order was repealed, there is no stay at home order 5) the exceptions. You have to remember that it was the DC govt that processed the permit for the protest, creating an exception.

ExitRamp

@ace10

----> "There are thousands of first-time firearms owners in every town, city and county in Virginia. And their access to safety training is being artificially limited."

Gee, if we only required first-time firearms owners to get access to safety training they so desperately need at the time they acquire their weapon, they would have been prepared for the time when they might actually have to use one. It boggles the mind.

---> "Not everyone has ten or twenty acres of land and a close friend who can show them the basics of firearm safety and usage."

Oh. A close friend whom I'm sure knows the "correct" safety procedures for gun handling. I've seen experienced gun handlers first-hand do the stupidest things you can do with a gun. And we've seen how locals shoot in their back yards without regard with what lies beyond their fence. Amazingly, LE doesn't seem to have a problem with it when a neighbor's house gets shot up or a neighbor is wounded in their own yard. It boggles the mind.

ace10

So you're in favor of withholding access to training because it isn't mandatory?

amerigirl

Are you that bad of a shot that you need constant training?

ace10

Yes.

Are you that egotistical to think that you don't?

amerigirl

Ace, I know I don't need that much, and can still be a darn good shot.

Virginia SGP

Did you think before you posted this?

1. If there were regulations for first-time owners to get training, gun ranges would have to be opened.

2. Most gun owners/users (see law enforcement) have regular practice to maintain skills. How exactly do you suggest folks maintain proficiency? Or are you simply suggesting folks have no need for guns to defend themselves prior to a coronavirus vaccine?

ExitRamp

@V SGP

1. If there were regulations for first-time owners to get training, gun ranges would have to be opened.

Outdoor gun ranges are open. What's the problem?

2. Most gun owners/users (see law enforcement) have regular practice to maintain skills. How exactly do you suggest folks maintain proficiency? Or are you simply suggesting folks have no need for guns to defend themselves prior to a coronavirus vaccine?

See above. If and when indoor ranges are opened, make an appointment just like swimming pool lanes and gyms.

amerigirl

How regular is regular practice? Like they can't miss one or they might shot off their own foot? BS. Sometimes in the winter I go 4 months without shooting and I still have both my feet.

ace10

Liar. You have stated that you never shoot because it's "too loud."

You can't even track your own BS.

amerigirl

Ace, Ace, Ace, what to do with you saying I’m a liar when you can’t remember my words! Lord child, write them down or something. I said I don’t like going to ranges because it’s too loud. I still shoot, we have a range on the farm. If you promise to stop calling me a liar for things you don’t have straight I can tell you something funny about what happened there, but you have to promise.

amerigirl

Your willingness to just sit on your butt and do nothing about the what is going on is even sicker. Just accepting the death of unarmed people of color for petty crimes or no crime at all. is sick. I happened again Saturday in California, The cops were called for a white man waving a gun around at a gas station. (guess he thought firearms and gasoline was a good combination) But a Latino man with no gun, who according to the police fit the description. was shot and killed.

It boggles the mind that you think getting access to firearm trading is top priority during a pandemic.

ace10

Sounds like a great idea for a woman with a violent ex to just "Call the cops" instead of being able to protect herself.

Hypocrite.

hardworkingamerican

Oh gee "guest" thank you so much for pointing that out. DUHHH, problem is you take one event and put a political label on it. Look at the liberal history? Oh GEEE, you wouldn't want to do that because it doesn't fit your narrative. Pull you head out of where ever it is and wake up. We don't need any protection we have it and are ready. You want a civil war. Hope you are ready for it.

hardworkingamerican

Well I think all now know all they need to know. TURN VA RED FOR LIFE! Vote every Democrap out. And if you follow the letter of what the psycho judge said, just go out in your back yard and practice. :) Remove Every Democrap. Trump 2020

UnrelatedGuest

You do realize that it was a republican majority VA general assembly that made the judicial appointment?

Voltaire

Unrelated guest--good point. However, it will be ignored as it doesn't fit the political angle.

loudouncommonsense

hwa: Calling your opposition names is a brilliant strategy! (I've sure I've seen hundreds of LTM commenters say they changed their affiliation because of your deep, thoughtful commentary.

It seems the people so unhappy with Fauci, the Govnr, BOS et al forget that much of there unhappiness is attributable to Trump, the love of their lives. If he had taken early and strong action beginning in Jan-Feb much of the economic problem would never have happened. The blame is his, own it!

springerdad

LCS - If Trump had taken action in Jan/Feb as you say the Democratic party would have been screaming he is doing it because of impeachment. I am sure you would have lost your head.

amerigirl

So says all the republicans. That is just another republican talking point like so many that are "but if"'s,. then the dem's would do this and we can blame them.

Virginia SGP

So if the US had simply acted any of the other western nations then we would be ..... oh, that's right, in exactly the same situation.

How many ventillators did NY say they needed? 30-40K? And then Trump secured some ventillators for them. They called him a killer. But then, strangely, NY never came close to using that estimate and returned them.

You are all hype, all the time. Trump led the US to:

1. The lowest unemployment rate on record.

2. The lowest unemployment rate on record for minority groups of all kinds.

3. Record stock market levels.

You should be bowing down and kissing his feet.

Voltaire

Virginia SGP--as an active private money manager, I know that your claim about Trump and the stock market is wrong. Forbes did a comparison between Trump and Obama and found that, since their inauguration dates, the Dow is up 28% under Trump and over the same time frame it was up 62% under Obama. In addition, Obama's stock market performance had to deal with the Great Recession and its impacts on stock prices. As to unemployment rate, while the unemployment rate has dropped steadily from its peak of 10% in late 2009. Over the past 10 years it has fallen to 3.6% and has been bounced between 3.5% and 3.7% over the past nine months. During Trump’s three years in office, it has fallen 1.2% and the decrease was essentially a continuation from the Great Recession’s recovery that started under Obama. In addition, according to Forbes, Obama added over 1.6 million more jobs in his last three years in office compared to Trump’s first three years.

amerigirl

NY based there need for vents from the info trump gave them, never called him a killer., and trump was wrong on the vent count. 1)The lowest unemployment rate was 1.2% in 1944.2) BLM and other orgs are forcing the govt to respect them as equals. 3) And the big corp get bigger on the back of the tax payer. He can kiss my butt.

amerigirl

Well, I think you are addled because this country is moving ahead and you want to live in the past. Red is dead. [wink] 'better dead than red '

amerigirl

You really go on some wild rants. You do realize that outdoor ranges are open right? Why should indoor ranges have more privileges than any other indoor facility? Remove every republican Biden 2020 Ha Ha

LetSanityPrevail

AG they shouldn’t but in this case allowing use of every other lane that is separated by a physical barrier is nothing contradictory to the safety guidelines regarding COVID. If you have been to SEG you would know that.

amerigirl

But this suit started 5/17 when we were in phase 0, it wan't allowed then. We just went into phase 1. they can probably open now. This was for show.

Guest

What failed logic this judge posseses. We should then also close all grocery stores. They are clearly not protected by the Constitution and people can grow and hunt for their own food.

Logic man

That’s a failed connection. Stop trying to hang with the grownups

Loudoun4Trump

Of course it is failed logic, it comes from an activist judge doing her best to curtail your 2nd amendment right.....

Guest

Wrong again, Brian

Oldbroad

You make my head spin! How idiotic!

amerigirl

You hunt your own food? If you have that much land why do you need an indoor shooting range?

ExitRamp

@AG

Because the neighbors started shooting back!

Guest

[crying] This woman has ruined my life and so many others she is actually being investigated for her harsh criminal sentences she needs to be taken off the bench!!! People of Loudoun this women will send your precious child to prison!!!!! Stand up for justice in our courts!!!

amerigirl

Ruined your life? So you have to wait a little longer it's not going to kill you.

ExitRamp

@Guest

--->This woman has ruined my life

Sounds like you need to get one first.

romano

more whacko anti-gun posts from leftists terrified of firearms! (and everything else too) LOL

amerigirl

Like the left doesn't own guns. Idiotic statement.

Guest

Destroying the economy and constitution are both objectives of the Left.

loudouncommonsense

"Guest" @ 9:19 a.m. Sounds like you went deep undercover into the left's organization and found the secret manifesto that no one else knows about. So, I'm sure that based just on your claim, you will convince thousands to change their minds. What a hollow bloviator.

amerigirl

wanting people sick and dead are both objectives of the right.

Loudoun4Trump

Abortion is a democrat thing....assisted suicide, another democrat thing....euthanasia, a democrat thing....most evil and inhumane acts are democrat things like KKK lynchings, firehoses, trail of tears and on and on....

Oldbroad

You are BOTH asinine! And ludicrous! You all are more extremest than the extremests!

Guest

This from the Amerigirl who posted “better dead than red” referring to republicans.

What a jerk

ace10

Seek assistance from the mental health profession. ASAP.

amerigirl

Guest, you are pathetic, I have every right to my opinions, you do not have the right to call people names because you don’t like it. Yes I’d rather be dead than red, did that hurt your fragile feelings? what a jerk

Virginia SGP

Judge Jeanette Irby is about as dumb as they come. She is nearly universally hated by the trial lawyers in Loudoun so much so that some seek to move their Loudoun cases to Fairfax to avoid her.

In the 1925 SCOTUS ruling in Pierce vs Society of Sisters, the Supreme Court ruled that the responsibility on how to educate one's children "belonged to the child's parents or guardians, and that the ability to make such a choice was a "liberty" protected by the Fourteenth Amendment. " Children were not mere "creatures of the state."

The case was brought, however, not by a parent or student but by a private school (hmmm, is that similar to a gun range?). SCOTUS continued noting the plaintiff organizations "have business and property for which they claim protection. These are threatened with destruction through the unwarranted compulsion which appellants are exercising over present and prospective patrons of their schools. And this court has gone very far to protect against loss threatened by such action." The opinion notes that the revised Oregon law banning private schools was "not "proper power" in this sense, and constituted unlawful interference with the freedom of both schools and families".

Can the clueless Judge Irby explain how this current case is not virtually identical to Pierce? Or did they skip that case in her law school, ranked as one of the bottom 10 in the entire country?!

Guest

Good morning, Brian. I was just thinking today was missing something. Thanks for bringing the stupid

Virginia SGP

Guest, care to add any analysis, logic or facts to the discussion?

Guest

First insight is that you are not very bright. Second insight is that you think you are the smartest person to ever post online. Third insight is that you are simply a satire of a more successful poster

Virginia SGP

I guess your answer to providing analysis, facts or logic is a resounding no. You really should stop making your whole education profession look like clowns. Most at least have the sense to keep their mouth shut than act out like the class clown.

Guest

Brian. Why do you assume that anyone who laughs at you is a teacher. Plenary of us parents laugh at you. Except for your sock puppet, online alter egos, I don’t think there is anyone who does not laugh at you.

Voltaire

Virginia SGP--no, the case is not identical because in the present case, the Commonwealth of Virginia's response to the COVID-19 virus outbreak, the Commonwealth of Virginia is "exercising proper power of the state" through declaration of a public health emergency and subsequent acts. In the case of Pierce v Society of Sisters, Associate Justice McReynolds stated that businesses are not generally entitled to protection against loss of business subsequent to "exercise of proper power of the state" (268 U.S. 510, 535).

Virginia SGP

Voltaire, we disagree on whether the party should prevail but we agree this judge was horrendously wrong. It sounds as if the judge ruled businesses could never bring such claims to court. That is clear legal error.

The cases that have reached SCOTUS on this turn on whether the gun range was treated differently that similarly situated businesses allowed to open. Just as churches have the right to open as long as they observe the measure for other essential businesses, so do gun ranges.

Voltaire, let me ask you this question. It is not frivolous. If Northam decided to extend the emergency declarations as long as he is in office because he either (a) has a change of heart and thinks too many folks die of the flu so he wants to shut down the economy as long as the flu exists or (b) thinks any death by coronavirus is too much to risk, is that a proper exercise of power? At what point are emergency declarations justified? Does a single politician, who may have years left in office, have the right to control the populace? There is a word for that (king/dictator). We are now arguing the merits of the orders and not whether the party has a potential claim.

Assuming the claims were only relevant to the time period where cases were widespread and we assume an emergency was in effect, on what rational basis may the governor allow folks to work on-site in some office buildings with social distancing but prevent gun ranges from operating without exemption even when they can practice social distancing? How is that not seen as a retaliatory, political action against a business he dislikes? What is the rational basis for treating gun ranges differently than say, a book store at the mall which were open throughout?

Voltaire

Virginia SGP--that is wrong. The State Health Commissioner, Dr. Norman Oliver, pursuant to §§ 32.1-13 and 35.1-12 of the Code of Virginia, acting for the Board when it is not in session pursuant to§§ 32.1-20 and 35.1-3 of the Code of Virginia, is vested with authority to make separate orders to meet any emergency not provided for by general regulations, for the purpose of suppressing conditions dangerous to the public health and communicable, contagious, and infectious diseases. Furthermore, the State Health Commissioner, pursuant to § 35.1-10, may take whatever action he deems necessary, to include ordering immediate closure of a restaurant, to control the spread of a preventable disease. That is the basis upon which the emergency declarations are justified and are in compliance with the Code of Virginia. If an individual citizen feels that the Governor's orders have gone outside the authorities vested in him to do so, he/she can, like was done in WI, challenge the order in court and let the judicial system determine if the order is reasonable or has been extended beyond said authority. The question of number of days/months/years that the Governor has in office is not germane/relevant to the immediate question. Given that this is a public health emergency, the Governor operates under the authority of § 44-146.17 found in the Code of Virginia. The decision to close/keep open businesses is the decision of the Governor, in compliance with authority of § 44-146.17 and after consultation with appropriate experts. He has made his decision and it isn't going to change. Discussing hypothetical "what-if" scenarios is not going to change the Governor's standing orders. If an individual feels that that decision was wrong, then the individual can challenge it in the judicial system.

Brian is a big fat idiot

Where does it say gun ranges are constitutionally protect business ?

Virginia SGP

Voltaire, you are arguing against yourself. You state that it can be challenged in court like Wisconsin. What do you think this case what about?

As for the clown who cannot read, I cannoy fix that but I can recommend some remedial reading comprehension courses.

Voltaire

Virginia SGP--No, I am not but what I am doing is explaining to you the legal basis why the Governor and the State Health Commissioner are within their rights to do what they are doing under a State of Emergency. I also identified the process in WI as an avenue that people, such as the article's subject, are doing. That is what I am doing as it appears that a lot of people on this site need to read the Code of Virginia before they decide to play "armchair expert".

As for the clown who cannot read, I cannoy fix that but I can recommend some remedial reading comprehension courses.

Virginia SGP

Voltaire, I am not sure if you don't understand the law or just refuse to admit you are wrong.

States have police powers. They can force folks to purchase healthcare (the feds cannot which was the impetus for suits against Obamacare). The states can regulate education. The states have vast powers that are limited by the Constitution.

Among the rights that the states may not abridge are "liberty" interests. The right to life is but one example. The right of parents to care for their children and direct their education is a substantive liberty interest. It is not written in ANY state constitution (or any code that I am aware of) but it is implied in the Constitution. Thus, if Virginia passed a statute that said the Governor or the health director had the right to direct a parent where to send their child to school, it is NOT a proper exercise of power.

You are claiming that just because Virginia has a statute saying it has a certain power, then that means it must have that power. That demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of a constitutional claim. And even when states have some limited powers (to regulate guns to some degree), that does not mean it is an unlimited power.

You simply cannot articulate any reason whatsoever that this case is distinguished from the Wisconsin case. Just like in many other posts, you become offended when you are wrong and rather than admit "I stand corrected" or make a coherent argument, you use circular logic (the Governor has unlimited power because the Virginia code says he has unlimited power regardless of the Constitution) or try to attack others personally.

SCOTUS noted in the California church cases that courts of first review are the appropriate place to determine whether the local or state authorities have overstepped their bounds and make factual findings while giving some deference to executive agencies. That is a measured judicial response. Stating, as Irby did, that businesses who sell guns or provide gun training have no rights under the 2nd Amendment is legal error. Period.

Voltaire

Virginia SGP—yes, I understand the law, thanks. I don’t need a lecture from you on it. What are your legal credentials? What I am saying that, pursuant to Sections 35 and 44 of the Code of Virginia, the Governor and the Health Commissioner have, under an emergency situation, the legal authority to do what they are doing. This is, no matter how many armchair legal experts like you think, the proper exercise of power as this falls under a State of Emergency Declaration and a response to a COVID-19 pandemic. This situation, no matter how hard you try to connect it, has ZERO to do with education and that is not relevant at all. As to your “critique” about my reasoning skills, just who the bloody hell gave you the moral authority to do that? Nobody. Get off your elite smugness as it is trite/juvenile at best.

amerigirl

Vol, ignore SGP, he always has to say something degrading in his post. I try to stick to the people that call me names, not him. Don't take it personally, that's just his high blood pressure talking.

Virginia SGP

Voltaire, if you have no clue how the law works, don't opine. If anybody found out your identity, they would laugh.

I usually do this with teachers, but I will go extra slow for you.

The Oregon law in Pierce was a state law supposedly banning certain actions.

The Virginia statutes you cite are Virginia law supposedly giving authority to executive officials to ban certain acts.

Are you following? Both were enacted by the legislature and executives.

Now, the states are NOT allowed to ban citizens from certain "liberty" interests. For example, Virginia could pass a law that says the Governor can have anyone who criticizes him arrested. That would be .... unconstitutional! And it is not a "proper" exercise of a state's power. That is what happened in Loving when the Virginia law banning interracial marriage was ruled unconstitutional. Virginia cannot likewise pass a law that says all Republicans cannot open a business. And if Virginia tried to pass a law that said a virus with a 0.000001% mortality rate necessitated closing all businesses, that would be overturned as well.

So just because Virginia passes a law that says a "medical emergency" authorizes certain powers, it is a fact-based determination about whether that emergency declaration is reasonable. The constitution guarantees certain liberty interests including the right to earn a living. When competing interests collide (liberty interests of citizens vs public health interests of the state), then courts can be asked to intervene. While courts give great deference to the government, the government does not win just because they point to a statute that "granted" them the power.

If you don't understand this, then it's actually not because you have likely never read a single piece of case law. It's because you don't understand what a constitution really is. To suggest that because a law exists that it is valid is a misunderstanding dating back to Marbury v Madison.

The ironic part is you accuse me of lecturing you when nearly all of your posts are lecturing others. The only difference is I know what I am talking about. When I don't, I admit it. Maybe you should stick with amerigirl who constantly clueless. However, that never stopped her from posting before.

ace10

Doxing is funny? Wait til it happens to you.

ExitRamp

@V SGP

---> And if Virginia tried to pass a law that said a virus with a 0.000001% mortality rate necessitated closing all businesses, that would be overturned as well.

The IFR for COVID-19 has been estimated to be .005. Without mitigation, this would be over 40,000 deaths in Virginia.

UnrelatedGuest

SGP thank you for pointing that out! The problem with Virginia Courts is that when ever Virginia before the Courts, the laws are most of the time ruled in their favor with a extremely broad interpretations. It is unfortunate because when a citizen bring a case that falls within the protection of the broad interpretations, the Courts will majority of the time claim that the facts are distinguishable from case law and do not apply. If a citizen has any success the Courts will generate an unpublished opinion with no citing authority.

NRA is right

Since when do I have to be qualified to own a weapons. Stop trying to take away my guns by saying I have to be able to train in order to have one

amerigirl

WOW where do I start? What, who said they were they were taking away your gun? There are qualifications to owning a firearm in every state, including Virginia, such as age, not being a felon, etc. Who said you had to train, though you should. Maybe a little bit of schooling would help you since you didn't know you had to be qualified to own "a weapons??".

NRA is right

Well if I don’t have the right to train, they the owners of the range have no case

amerigirl

NRA is wrong, no you don't have that right under the constitution. But there are outdoor ranges you can go to. This only was about indoor ranges because of the executive order created for the covid virus. Once it is gone they will be open again.

Virginia SGP

Spot on. And it gets worse with qualified immunity. Under the present doctrine, the court can assume an official violated the *#$& out of your rights, state that the case law wasn't "clearly established" yet, and refuse to even document the action was a violation. So the next violator and judge can repeat the same charade.

Folks really need to wake up to the horrendous state of our judiciary. I didn't understand how bad it was. Most of these judges don't even understand the law. It is truly scary.

Voltaire

Virginia SGP--so you know more than the judiciary? You could always move to state with elected judges and run for office if you are so confident. Most people decry the judiciary when they lose cases in it. There is nothing wrong with the U.S. judicial system.

Virginia SGP

Read the case of Wayne Jones vs Martinsburg that was published this week. The judiciary is in crisis. The judges either get overturned or gloss over their admitted mistakes. Either because of bias or ignorance, many of the see judges are awful.

I am not advocating for elected judges but a QA system. Just like food critics don't announce they are conducting a restaurant review, we need objective but disguised cases brought in to these courts to evaluate the judge's legal reasoning and bias. The mere threat of a GAO type body testing them would have widespread corrective behavior. Most of the impressions I have formed have been by reading other cases btw.

Voltaire

Virginia SGP--again, you are making the argument that you know more than the judiciary. I have news for you but the judiciary isn't supposed to work "with a Q&A system". The appeals process is how the judiciary checks itself and that system is working perfectly well and doesn't need an "armchair lawyer" telling it what it does or doesn't need. As I said, if you feel that you do indeed know more that practicing lawyers/judges then put it to the test and move to another state and run for elected office. In addition, the State Bar Association is also effective in monitoring and handling situations involving malpractice by lawyers/judges.

Virginia SGP

Voltaire, the state bar is a complete joke which only serves to handle 2 sitations (in almost all cases): (1) where lawyers swindle clients out of their money by misusing it and (2) disagreements between lawyers. The bar almost always side with big firms regardless of the facts. You can ask any small law firm. The bar is very senstive about this but knows it's basically an extension of those connected with power.

I am not assuming the courts are wrong. In every single case where I've been involved in which sovereign immunity has arisen, the judge has gotten it wrong. The judge was then overturned on appeal or corrected themselves in a later order. Well, actually the judge didn't correct himself by saying "I got it wrong", they just rewrote the opinion without mentioning sovereign immunity when their first opinion was based almost exclusively on dismissing claims based on sovereign immunity. Judges don't have a clue.

In another ongoing case, a judge ruled that a claim must be dismissed because a writ of mandamus is an extraordinary remedy not allowed unless specifically authorized by law. Unfortunately for the federal judge, the plaintiff's briefings only noted the specific authorization by law for bringing a mandamus claim multiple times. The judge's ruling was specifically contradicted by the very statutes he was considering. Apparently, like so many on here, the judge just cannot read.

The judiciary is in crisis. Courts were not designed to require a second level arbiter to correct all of the lower court's opinions. In fact, the Virginia Supreme Court doesn't even take some cases in which there are errors because it has a limited case load. Only in federal court do you have an automatic right to have an appeal court review the case.

If you have every talked to an attorney who has dealt with Irby, you will know she is absolutely horrendous. She is constantly corrected on the law by the attorneys including on appeals.

It appears you have some affiliation with the judiciary. I would hope you would work to improve jurisprudence rather than excusing obvious errors. If pro se attorneys can get multiple federal judges corrected multiple times, then by definition, the judiciary is in shambles.

BLT

New right wing argument: Gun ranges are people too.

Guest

And you must be trained to own a gun.

ExitRamp

Even the trainer needs to to be trained...

Who can forget the professional gun instructor providing an Uzi to a 9-year girl? She loses control of the weapon and kills the instructor. So who trained the instructor?

Or how about the mother who, along with her husband, was an NRA member, and avid gun club and safety promoter. Goes shopping at KMart with her 3-year old son in the shopping cart. But she's ready - she's got her loaded gun in her purse in the cart. Moments later shoppers were shocked to hear the sound of a gun blast after the kid reaches in the purse and pulls the trigger on the gun killing his mother dead. Too bad the kid didn't get some training.

So, yeah, those new gun owners can always count on their neighbor because they know how to handle a gun.

Guest

Anyone know what restrictions they want lifted? I thought ranges could be open across the state since May.

Loudoun4Trump

Must be an Obama judge....Northam's edicts are not law.....cant wait for the election this November to be over.....all of this nonsense will stop and hiden biden can go back to his basement for good.

BLT

Is that you whistling past the graveyard?

Guest

BLT - if it’s a graveyard, then is a democratic voter rally.

amerigirl

Lie you have ever been to one, I've see those fake rally pics that Donboy Jr put out.

Voltaire

Loudoun4Trump--that is wrong. Neither President Obama nor President Trump appoint judges to the Circuit Court of Loudoun County. The Circuit Court is part of the Commonwealth of Virginia legal system. Those appointments are recommended by the Governor and confirmed/approved by the General Assembly. Governor Northam's Executive Orders are binding and are supported by actual Code of Virginia citations. Governor Northam is not a monarch or a Royal Governor and does not issue "edicts".

Loudoun4Trump

Still not a law....did the VA legislature vote on any of this....NO....ok must be a McCaullife judge....all the same thing...activist judges trying to make law instead of ruling on it....

Voltaire

Loudoun4Trump--you are wrong. The Governor has issued a State of Emergency and is operating in accordance with § 44-146.28 of the Code of Virginia which is LAW. There is nothing in the section that says that the General Assembly has to vote on anything. As someone pointed out the Republican controlled Virginia General Assembly at the time approved her so you can't pin it on a Democratic Governor (McCaullife). Judges make rulings based on precedent they don't make law. That function is reserved to the legislature.

amerigirl

Just say you're sorry.

Loudoun4Trump

There is no state of emergency....where is the emergency? looters can tear down statues and not practice social distancing guidelines and wearing masks....again, no ligit law to follow -- where the hell is the emergency??? I've seen a lo tof political manuevering by the left to destroy the economy and blame trump, but where is the emergency????

Voltaire

Loudoun4Trump--yes, there are actually two states of emergency. One state of emergency is a public health emergency for the COVID-19 virus. The other state of emergency is for civil unrest. Both States of Emergency are lawful and in compliance with the Code of Virginia.

Oldbroad

Stutter, stutter, stutter!!

amerigirl

Loudoun4, please try and keep up with what is going on in the world. Trump declared one March 13 for the entire country, Northam has declared a covid emergency for the state and another for civil unrest on May 31, all done with executive orders. We are in Phase 1 along with Richmond which says that you only need a facemask inside establishments, social distancing is recommended not required. No need to political maneuver to destroy the economy, trumpster is doing that just fine by himself.

ExitRamp

@L4T

---> "...political manuevering by the left to destroy the economy and blame trump"

Wow. He's onto to us guys. It's no longer a secret. L4T is too sharp for us.

Oldbroad

Come on, ypu have to admit that our "commonwealth" is about as archaic as it gets. 100 mi outside the beltway and ya'll be in da South!

Loudoun4Trump

I am up to date amerigirl and the socialist agenda is not one i am for at all....Again, there is no emergency, these are made up emergencies - never has a flu outbreak been deemed a state of emergency...civil unrest where, one night and Northum can lock all down the entire commonwealth -- I don thin so and this makes zero sense and infringes on the US consitition rights...next, following your flawed logic, northam can declare a state of emergency for climate change and force all businesses to close to keep temps cooler and make us all eat what he deems is appropriate.....please your logic is flawed and a made up emergency does not qualify under the law....so smarty pants, these are edicts by a monarch named klansman northam -- enjoy tour totalitarian state -- its for the birds!

amerigirl

Loudon4, Made up emergencies? A pandemic is not an emergency? You are just in denial. How can you even say this is the flu, no medical training or understanding of strains? Yes flus have been claimed as Natonal emergencies. H1N1 was a declared an emergency, Have you ever heard of the Spanish flu? Don't you think that making people sick because people want hair cuts infringes on their rights? Yr logic is so flawed that you don't think the leaders can make laws to protect the public. I guess if it doesn't fit your agenda on what you want to do then it isn't having who caress about everyone else.

ExitRamp

@L4T

---> ".Again, there is no emergency, these are made up emergencies - never has a flu outbreak been deemed a state of emergency."

Please understand one thing. The coronavirus is NOT a seasonal flu. In case you haven't noticed the contagion and number of deaths continue throughout various parts of the country and the world. The mortality rate is much more than seasonal flu. And we have no defense against it except mitigation through social (physical) distancing, masks, testing/isolation. This is far from over. Why is this so hard to understand?

Show respect for the businesses and their staff who are trying to make conditions safe for YOU. Give thanks to the doctors, nurses and EMTs who are putting their lives on the line for YOU.

LoudounTrumpsTrump

Right, because the president nominates judges for the states.

The laugh's on you, though: the General assembly had a Republican majority in both houses when she was elected.

amerigirl

Yeah right . He's been making appearances not hiding like the Bunker Bit(#. At least Biden cares enough about people to not want them to have crowds at rallies during a pandemic. Oh and then make them sign a waiver to not sue him if they get it.

Oldbroad

You may be in for a very rude awakening, but not sure if you're ever awake!!!🤪

loudouncommonsense

As a gun owner I'd say "if you haven't trained enough for self and home defense by now" it's too late. If you're trying to train against over-reach of government, well you can see how Trump's itchy trigger finger brings the military down on folks. No matter what you bring to the fight as a civie, you can't match the firepower of the Feds.

Of course maybe Trump would be more respectful of folks if all the protesters were heavily armed .......whaddya think? Be more of a fair fight? ( Hmmm. Los Angeles in the '60s when gun control measures were enacted as a white reaction to blacks arming-up?)

BTW Let know when someone has been able to kill the corona virus with a 9mm.

Guest

Apparently the only thing that kills corona are large shoulder to shoulder riots... I mean protests

amerigirl

and presidential rallies. Don't for get the correction officers trumpster sent from covid filled prisons to be on the streets of DC.

ace10

There are estimates of up to TWO MILLION first time gun owners this year.

These are your neighbors. Your friends. Your family.

Whites, Blacks, Browns, Purples and every other skin color you seem to be focused on.

Whether you like it, or not, there are far more firearms in the hands of Americans than there were a few months ago. They have shown their support of the 2nd Amendment with their wallets.

If you think this is a political issue. Or something to joke about, then you are sorely mistaken.

If they can't get training on the safe use of these newly-purchased and never-before-used firearms, then the risk of negative outcomes increase. It's as simple as that.

Is that what you want?

Guest

Wait. Training is not a requirement to owning a gun. Are you suggesting that all gun owners must regularly train. How dare you try to trample my 2A rights.

ace10

Sorry, I can't hear you over that idiotic strawman argument you offered.

amerigirl

Just how far do you think your 2A rights extend?

Guest

Constitution says you have a right to own a gun. Says nothing about gun ranges. As soon as your start saying otherwise, you open up the requirement to be trained. You can close your ears all you want-they will be like the rest of your head

ace10

So your answer to the question of whether the millions of new gun owners in America, and the tens of thousands in Virginia, should have access to training is... wait for it.... wait it for...

No.

Because it's not in the Constitution.

I was curious, so I checked because I wasn't sure.... nope couldn't find a specific mention of the right to kill a baby inside the womb. Yet here we are with that whole thing. And there certainly weren't any problems with accessing that service during this public health crisis.

Guest

I forgive you, Ace

ace10

Aww. I will accept that as a concession. You put forth some awfully pathetic arguments. Sorry you got trounced.

Virginia SGP

Ace, these folks don't understand the first thing about the law. You are arguing with idiots. They just start calling you names or making excuses because they have no argument.

The sad part is many judges, like this one, know nothing about the law either.

Guest

Don’t try to sound smart, Brian. It only makes you sound dumb. Like your sock puppet, Ace, you have only yourself to blame.

amerigirl

Look at SGP trying to say that others don't know the law. Do you understand an executive order? They are s punishable as laws, and this facility was not to open under an executive order.

Virginia SGP

Amerigirl, have you ever posted an accurate comment? If a new governor issued an executive order banning interracial marriage, would that be a "valid law" punishable as a criminal offense? If so, why? If not, why not?

Now, let's see if you can figure out why Ace's logic is 100% correct. The courts may eventually determine that the Governor's executive order was a reasonable exercise of state power. Or they may decide it was unconstitutional. But that is almost always a fact-based question. Do you read the news? Can you explain how the Wisconsin Supreme Court handled this?

amerigirl

SG, Brian, If you think any of my post are in accurate then prove it, take your time. I did not say an executive order would be a valid law, it is as punishable as a law. Citizens that violate the Governor's Order in an Emergency Declaration could be arrested or cited, which is a Misdemeanor. You think that any court is going to find that all the governors that issued the orders are violating the law? Hah that ‘s a joke. Wisconsin Supreme Court handled it wrong, that isn’t going to happen again.

amerigirl

Wait, wait wait, many of them are democrats too. One of my kids just got their firearm and we all strongly support red flag laws. You are sorely mistaken if you think everyone who has a gun supports the NRA. It's not winter, use an outdoor range, go someplace else that lets you shoot. I'd invite you to the farm but I think I'd be too tempted.

Guest

Amerigirl - makes sly comment about killing someone, but perpetually offended by what Trump says. Walking contradiction.

amerigirl

Guest, and your mind jumps right to killing someone? Great thought process you got going there. How is there a contradiction? I never even thought of killing when I wrote that, you are a walking lying machine. Yep I sure do get tired of hearing all the trumpsters lies, over 16,000 verified so far.

Guest

Amerigirl - explain this: I'd invite you to the farm but I think I'd be too tempted.

amerigirl

Guest, to kill him god NO. Whiz one by his ear so he can't hear for awhile, god possibility, but really you jump to killing him OMG!

What4

People freaking out over a nothing burger. When someone takes your gun away, let me know.

Guest

When someone takes your gun away it’s too late.

amerigirl

Like it is going to happen. that is the big NRA forever cry, they are coming for you guns! It gets everyone freaked out and they run out and start stock piling guns and ammo. Yet it has never happened.

Guest

The POS BOS is making it harder to shoot on our OWN LAND.

If I cannot train then any resultant issues are now on the hands of Randall and Northam !

BLT

Damn shame you have neighbors who find your fetish/hobby both noisy and dangerous.

amerigirl

Do you have enough land that it doesn't endanger anyone? Or do you just not care if it endangers anyone because ya know, 2A right and all that BS.

amerigirl

Bravo!

ace10

Rioting: OK

Practicing the safe use of firearms: Not OK.

Got it! Makes perfect sense.

Guest

Which one is a right?

amerigirl

Who's stopping you? Follow the rules. Go to an outdoor range, it's not winter.

Loudoun1965

"...to train on his firearm in other ways." Sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

Chris McHale

By her reasoning, 1st Amendment Rights apply to the writer but not the newspaper. First Amendment Rights apply to the preacher but not the church. In essence, she ruled that the Right exists but the tools needed to carry out that Right are irrelevant.

Guest

Dumbest analogy so far today

Waterfordresident

Silver Eagle owners are Democrats capitalizing off true Patriots. Boycott this place at all costs. Yes the son is the new owner, but the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. There are many other choices who don’t support the liberal disease we are seeing today. I’m so glad I have a great gun range on my property.

Voltaire

It would be nice if the LTM would have identified what court this decision came from. General District Court? Circuit Court? Good grief, that information isn't that hard to get....

Guest

Google is your friend.

Jeanette Irby - Ballotpedia

Jeanette Irby is a judge of the 20th Judicial Circuit in Virginia. She was elected by the Virginia General Assembly on September 18, 2014, effective December 1, 2015, for a term that expires in 2022.

Voltaire

Guest--cute. However, it doesn't excuse the LTM from providing that information in the article. Most major papers provide ALL the information, including what I asked.

Chris McHale

The son has been the owner for some time now. He has also served our country so please don't discredit that. The father's politics are misguided and the Democrats have even turn on him but that does not spill over th o the son who has displayed no political leanings.

Guest

So this is all a publicity stunt?

amerigirl

Berm?

Guest

What would would really be nice is if I could go to the range and do some shooting.

amerigirl

There are ranges pen, do you have a fondness for a certain range?

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