The Middleburg-based nonprofit formerly known as the Mosby Heritage Area Association has adopted the new name of Virginia Piedmont Heritage Area Association (VPHA), according to a release from the Lovettsville Historical Society.

The Virginia Piedmont Heritage Area is an historical region comprising Loudoun, Clarke, Warren, Fauquier and Prince William counties. It includes a number of landmarks dating back to the 17th century.

The organization was formerly named for renowned Confederate leader John S. Mosby, who commanded a battalion of Confederate soldiers commonly known as Mosby’s Raiders.

“After extensive discussions, we have decided to respectfully retire our name and adopt one that more accurately captures the broad scope of our mission to highlight all the diverse history, from the time of the Native Americans through the 20th century, that has taken place in the Heritage Area,” VPHA Chairman C. Dulany Morison said in a prepared statement.

Morison said the association’s Board of Directors held such discourse as part of its 25th anniversary celebrations this year.

He added organization officials “thoroughly reviewed how our organization can ensure the continued protection of the area’s extraordinary landscape and its history in the next quarter-century.”

The shift follows the Loudoun County School Board’s vote in June to remove the Raiders mascot from Loudoun County High School, as it originally paid homage to Mosby and his squadron, who were “noted for their lightning-strike raids on Union targets and their ability to consistently elude pursuit,” according to board member Ian Serotkin (Blue Ridge District).

The VPHA’s decision comes in the wake of a nationwide racial reckoning after the May death of George Floyd in Minneapolis.

Other local actions have included the removal of the “Silent Sentinel” statue — which memorialized Confederate soldiers — from the courthouse grounds in Leesburg, as well as the renaming of the Ashburn-based Washington Football Team.

More information on the VPHA is available at piedmontheritage.org.

(108) comments

rugbyman

The author could do a little research. They were never Mosbys "Raiders",but known rather as Mosbys "Rangers".

amerigirl

I believe it was know as both. That's per wiki

LetSanityPrevail

Wikipedia has a very good write up of John Mosby and it is very interesting that after the war he supported Grant and other Republicans. His view on slavery was not as clear cut as it seems. While he personally did not approve of slavery he fought for his country which he viewed as the south. He also made an interesting comment at a reunion of the Rangers, in which he said many of his colleagues had become clergymen who wanted to look forward not backward. That is a good lesson. We are becoming way too judgmental of a person's life without looking at the totality of their life. Another interesting side note, Mosby had a slave who when the war ended went to New York and Mosby sent him money and kept in contact with him for over 20 years.

amerigirl

Very interesting, thanks for sharing.

yellowbird

Good move, about time!

romano

more light falling snowflakes

jbsets

The Civil War is part of our history. It's part of the timeline of this country. It should not be erased. Everyone should learn about it, but from both perspectives, which isn't always the case. Having lived in both the north and south and seeing text books from both, southern history teachings tend to portray the Confederacy in a positive light, the Confederate generals as heros, and Union as bad. There is very little about the Union side in the books I've seen. Not gonna say that the Confederacy isn't characterized as bad in northern history classes. It would be nice if history was inclusive, rather than cherry-picked, and that at least the major events of history were taught the same and after the regional aspects be discussed. Never going to happen because across the country history and books on other subjects are being rewritten to eliminate all kinds of information and other information added. I guess history will never be objective. Public education should be consistent across the country. You want your kids to learn something else or skip complete subjects, send your kids to private schools that focus on your what you consider to be your truths.

John Mosby was a brilliant military strategist. There is no reason to erase him, or even the crappy generals, from history. I believe that he is studied at most, if not all of the military schools. We should learn about him and study him, but not glorify that he fought to allow people to own other human beings.

Abraham Lincoln was a racist. He DID NOT WANT to sign the Emancipation Proclamation. I can't find anything right now that says specifically how he felt about Native Americans, but I haven't been looking into it for more than a few minutes. What I did find in a quick look is that he commuted the sentences of all but the 38 leaders of the Sioux rebellion. I know no other details but plan to do more research. I do know that he only signed the EP because he political strategists said that he wouldn't get re-elected unless he did. There were more people in the south, but the majority of them were slaves so couldn't vote. The majority of the eligible voters were in the north and west. They tended to be anti-slavery (still racist though.)

The Virginia Piedmont Heritage Area Association is meant to educate on all aspects of Piedmont history. By naming it after Mosby, it implies that it's all about him and his part in history. It was probably originally named after him to honor him. We shouldn't forget him, but what exactly are we honoring...especially in this instance when the mission of the Center is the history and culture of the Piedmont...all of it, not just Mosby? Besides, they are a private organization. They could rename it anything they want as long as it is not profane, encourages illegal activity, or discriminates against any protected group listed in the 5th Amendment of the Constitution.

Former Secretary of State, George Marshall (not to be confused with George Preston Marshall, the original racist owner of the Wash FB Team) came up with the "Marshall Plan" to support Europe in reorganizing politically and to assist in them in restarting their economies after WWII. It was discussed extensively by Congress and then Congress voted through the support which included financial support. Marshall is a big deal in Loudoun because he lived in Leesburg. His home is open to the public and maintained as a museum by VA, NPS, HUD, and the VA Garden Club. If you care to visit, it's across the street from Mom's Apple Pie (yummiest blueberry pie ever!)

*With the exception of actual historical events and information that are documented and can be found in books or online (etc.), these are my opinions and are not intended to insult or upset any group or individual.

amerigirl

Changing names on things and removing or moving statues will not erase or change history one bit, that is absurd. History will be the same. Just because you move a statue did history books change? They will still teach about the civil war in schools. Though history will never be taught the same across the US because it is run by the counties/states and they use different books. If you want to see a real political divide look at this article https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/01/12/us/texas-vs-california-history-textbooks.html. John Mosby was a brilliant military strategist. too bad he didn’t follow his heart and side with the North

jbsets

AG: Sometimes I have a hard time following who is responding to whom or to which statement. I think you are talking to me and I'm pretty sure that we are agreeing except I don't believe I said that moving a statue changes history or erases it. I don't think that I implied it either. We probably don't need statues that glorify something and/or people who supported something so heinous as owning and abusing human beings. People can defend these people all they want, but I just can't get behind doing something that hurts millions of people, basically saying, "We don't give a darn about you and what your ancestors went through."

As for what someone else (not you AG) who said something about the slave traders doing it and profiting so why not others and the people in Africa who captured people from warring tribes and sold them to the slave traders, so it was ok (I am big time paraphrasing.) Just because they did it, doesn't make it right. Besides, they wouldn't have done it if there wasn't a market for slaves. Basic economics is supply and demand. If there is a demand, which there was, it will be supplied. Plantation owners needed slaves to work the plantations so they went to the slave markets to buy people. They made their money by selling the products of the slave labor. The slave traders filled the demand for slaves by bringing people to the markets from Africa to be purchased by the plantation owners. They made their money by selling humans. African tribes filled the demand of slave traders by selling the humans of warring tribes and selling them rather than using them as their own tribes or killing them. That's how they made money. The worst of basic economics.

Like it or not 11 states seceded from the rest of the US so that they could retain the right to own humans. They might have called it states rights, but I think that we can all agree it was primarily about owning people and forcing them into a life time of hard labor while often being beaten, raped, and having their loved ones sold elsewhere, away from them, and never seeing them again. The Confederacy wanted the right to make their own decisions when it came to owning the majority of people in an entire race.

MY OPINION: Glorifying monuments, statues, and flags that represent these "states rights" is hurtful and a slap in the faces to all of the descendants of slaves. It is not cancel culture or snowflakes. (The term "snowflake generation" was one of Collins English Dictionary's 2016 words of the year. Collins defines the term as "the young adults of the 2010s, viewed as being less resilient and more prone to taking offense than previous generations". Wish I could say I am that young.

AG: Sorry I went off on a tangent rant.

*With the exception of actual historical events and information that can be looked up anywhere, these are my opinions and are not intended to anger, upset, or insult any person or group.

amerigirl

JB, you are entitled to speak your mind, it is a comment section. Not angry or upset, but there are real snowflakes who write in here that take everything personally and might start to attack you personally, ignore them. I even had to take action with LMT on a few because they had gotten so nasty.

Voltaire

AG--I totally agree with your comment here.

Voltaire

Jbsets—OK, I agree with you about the teaching of the Civil War. Everyone should learn it from both perspectives. As a student of military history, I would also agree with you that Col. John Mosby was a brilliant military strategist and should be studied. On Lincoln, I would argue that Lincoln was a pragmatic individual. He was the product of 19th Century America. In that time period, it was possible, not conceivable today, to be both a racist and an opponent of slavery. Lincoln did have racial prejudices of the time and yet did believe that slavery was a crime and ought to be abolished. With regards to treatment of Native Americans, Abraham Lincoln’s record is not real good. The majority of his policies proved to be detrimental to them. For example, the Homestead Act and the Pacific Railway Act of 1862 helped precipitate the construction of the transcontinental railroad, which led to the significant loss of land and natural resources, as well as the loss of lifestyle and culture, for many tribal people. In addition, rampant corruption in the Indian Office, the precursor of the Bureau of Indian Affairs, continued unabated throughout Lincoln’s term and well beyond. In many cases, government-appointed Indian agents outright stole resources that were supposed to go to the tribes. In other cases, the Lincoln administration simply continued to implement discriminatory and damaging policies, like placing Indians on reservations. Beginning in 1863, the Lincoln administration oversaw the removal of the Navajos and the Mescalero Apaches from the New Mexico Territory, forcing the Navajo to march 450 miles to Bosque Redondo—a brutal journey. Eventually, more than 2,000 died before a treaty was signed. Furthermore, several massacres of Indians also occurred under Lincoln’s watch. The Dakota War in Minnesota in 1862 led to the hanging of thirty-eight Indian men—303 Indian men had been sentenced to hang, but the others were spared by Lincoln’s pardon. The Sand Creek Massacre in southeastern Colorado in 1864 also resulted in the deaths of hundreds of Cheyenne and Arapaho. General George Catlett Marshall Jr. did a whole lot more than just the development of the Marshall Plan. He rose through the ranks of the United States Army to become Chief of Staff under presidents Franklin D. Roosevelt and Harry S. Truman. He also served as Secretary of State and Secretary of Defense under President Harry S. Truman. British Prime Minister Sir Winston Churchill lauded Marshall as the "organizer of victory" for his leadership of the Allied victory in World War II, although Marshall declined a final field leadership position that went to his protégé, later U.S. President, Dwight D. Eisenhower. After the war, as Secretary of State, Marshall advocated a significant U.S. economic and political commitment to post-war European recovery, including the Marshall Plan that bore his name. In recognition of this work, he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1953. General Marshall was also named Time’s Man of Year in 1943. He further served as chairman of the American Battle Monuments Commission and president of the American National Red Cross. General Marshall’s residence, Dodona Manor, was renovated with funding provided by donations from European nations that had benefitted from the Marshall plan, grants from the Commonwealth of Virginia, the National Park Service (NPS) (Save America’s Treasures Program), the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, the Garden Club of Virginia, and generous private donations. The home is operated as a museum by the NPS.

Squaks11

Sorry since the LTM rarely publishes articles about covid-19 I though I would make a comment here since this have a large audience.

Good job Governors since there is no leadership at the top that cares at all.

Six governors form an interstate compact to buy rapid-detection coronavirus tests

In the absence of a national testing strategy for the novel coronavirus pandemic, six governors have formed a first-of-its-kind purchasing compact they hope will pressure companies that make rapid-detection tests to quickly ramp up production.

The governors, three Republicans and three Democrats, say other states and cities may join them and that talks have already begun with one of the two companies approved by the Food and Drug Administration to sell point-of-care antigen tests that can detect the virus in less than 30 minutes.

Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan (R) negotiated the deal during the final days of his tenure as chair of the National Governors Association, and his office said the Rockefeller Foundation is willing to act as the financing entity if needed.

Each state — Virginia, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Michigan and Ohio, in addition to Maryland — would request 500,000 tests, for a total of 3 million that could be deployed to address outbreaks.

jbsets

I agree. Proud to live in a state that cares about the health and safety of its citizens.

Too bad the general populace doesn't agree and run around without masks for whatever reason, not caring if they infect others if they are asymptomatic, or get infected. It is not a right as defined in the Constitution that you can go without a mask. It is not discrimination. Discrimination according to the 5th Amendment does not list those who don't want to a mask as a protected group under the law. That means if your state says you have to wear a mask, not doing so is unlawful. If a private business says you have to wear a mask in order to enter that business, you have to wear a mask or stay out. Every business is allowed to set their own rules and it is not discrimination. As I said, those who choose not to wear a mask are not listed a protected class in the 5th Amendment. Spitting on people is gross. Holding guns on people, assaulting them physically or verbally, and outright killing them is both against the law and a sin. You don't want to wear a mask, stick to shopping where the owners don't care or shop online from home and respect those who don't want you within 6' of you. They have rights too.

amerigirl

Let me also add that currently in the US we have over a person die from Covid every minute. Yesterday alone it was almost 2 people. Even if you went with just 1 person approximately 528 Americans will die while you are sleeping. The average person spends two hours and 51 minutes on their smartphones a day, in that time period at least another 171 Americans will die. This should not be acceptable. We are very lucky to have a gov that takes the virus seriously.

loudouncommonsense

I love to see people fulminate about change; it's so darwinian to see the world move on while they try to hang on to things that are no longer serve the betterment of community.

Squaks11

As long as the people asking for the change now are willing to the same in the future then all is good.

jbsets

you lost me at "while they try to hang on to things that are [sic] no longer serve the betterment of the community." I think I get what you are trying to say, but I'm not sure that darwinian is the right word for this sentiment. I looked it up and it doesn't quite apply. No biggie

loudouncommonsense

using darwinism (the species that survive are the species that change and evolve to new circumstances) as a metaphor. We change names, symbols, organizations and other things as society changes. Those who do not embrace change get left behind and are often resentful and reactionary.

Squaks11

I have no issue for people asking for things to be changed. I will have no issue when the next generation finds the things put up today to be offensive and starts demending their removal.

LetFreedomRing

Welcome to the age of cancel culture. I have no skin in the game. Names of institutions, schools, buildings, and roadways make no difference in my life — just as they make no real difference in the lives of any other human alive today. It’s interesting that some of these names suddenly mean something to certain people in this age. It’s even more interesting that these certain people think that canceling these names will hold any relevant or meaningful value. It doesn’t. Changing names, and destroying statues solves absolutely nothing. Rather, it provides these certain people — people who otherwise have no purpose in life — a “cause” that they can fight for and win in order to provide some sense of self gratification and purpose.

How empty and meaningless your life must be to find a name or statue to be so offensive that it becomes your mission to erase it from history under the dysphoria that it will actually change anything.

On to the next perceived symbol of offense that we can try to destroy... there are infinite possibilities.

amerigirl

Sounds like you do have skin in the game if you feel someone’s life is empty and meaningless because they don’t like to see a honorific to someone that promoted slavery. If you were black you may feel quite different. Black people do have lives with purpose and yes, it is gratifying to know that their oppressors are no being honored for being their oppressors.

jbsets

AG: With you 100%. Exactly what I've been saying and you managed to say it using fewer words. Brava! ; )

jbsets

None of us snowflakes have even once suggested or demanded that history be erased or even the Confederacy should be erased. You can't erase history. You can learn from it. It's just time to admit that what the Confederacy held dear and fought for was, to use one of Trumps' favorite phrase, "a horrible thing." Peonage and Jim Crow were horrible things. Lynchings, segregation, separate but equal, and twisting the laws to make it difficult to vote are horrible things. Systematic racism, something that came out of of the perpetuation of all of that, IS A HORRIBLE THING.

If we erase any of those things, we are destined to repeat it. Keeping those glorifications around is disrespectful to the slaves and their descendants. It is time to make changes...no erase.

You all like how I made up a word?

Pre-yuppieLoudouner

After the Perpetually Offended finally get through renaming,removing,relabeling and tearing down all things southern,what will be next?Blowing up the Washington monument?

amerigirl

Explain your bizarre rational

Comment deleted.
Voltaire

Pre-yuppie Loudouner--since we are going to get into technical minutiae, the poster's identification is "amerigirl", not "ameriguy".

Comment deleted.
jbsets

Is calling Amerigirl, Ameriguy supposed to be an insult? Kinda childish.

Comment deleted.
amerigirl

Typo and that makes you a bully? Like that's a big deal, don't be so petty

amerigirl

Looks like Pre-yuppie couldn't go by the rules and had their comments blocked. Too bad so sad.

MAGA Hats Turning Up On EBay

All this talk about cancel culture. Not buying it but I do plan to participate in a nationwide cancellation event on November 3rd. The end of the MAGA Incompetence Circus. A year from now people will be hiding those red hats...

amerigirl

Some people aren't waiting til Nov. to hide their hats. Check out those polls.

marv

Just what is wrong with making America great? Prove your jealous BS.

amerigirl

Nothing wrong with making America great, but it will take so much work after trump has destroyed it. What BS, have you looked at the polls?

Squaks11

AG - Polls mean nothing and 2016 should be a teaching moment. It will take at least 4 years maybe longer to clean up this mess.

amerigirl

Squaks, I wonder how long it will take to get our standing and trust back in the world.

Squaks11

AG - Much longer then the 3 1/2 years it took us to get here. Whoever is Biden's VP will be the one to lead us out of it.

Voltaire

Squaks11--If Biden picks someone like Elizabeth Warren as Vice Presidential Candidate, then I think you would need to double your forecasted timeframe tor restoration of America's greatness. She would wreck havoc on this nation's economy and probably make lots of money outflow to either emerging markets or other developed economies.

amerigirl

Volt, I think you have Warren pegged all wrong. She has always held big banks accountable. She was the one who pioneered the idea of a federal agency dedicated to protecting American consumers. Even though she wasn’t even in Congress at the time, she fought for the agency, built public support for it, and Barack Obama signed it into law in 2010. She was the one that went after Wells Fargo when they were opening all those fake accounts and charging millions in fees to customers. When it comes to peoples dollars she has always looked for accountability. What makes you say that?

Voltaire

AG—using Politico’s website, I reviewed Elizabeth Warren’s views on various issues. She wants to (1) raise taxes (individuals, wealth, corporate, financial institution, capital gains), (2) expand the role of Government (have the Government manufacture pharmaceuticals, create additional social programs, have the Government run broadband in rural areas, expand Government’s role in managing healthcare (Medicare for all)) (3) she wants to expand antitrust to break up big technology companies, agribusinesses, meatpacking companies, biotech companies, big financial institutions (through reinstatement of the Glass-Steagall Act). Those policies, combined with her viewpoint on trade, are not overwhelmingly received in the world of international finance. If she was selected as Vice Presidential Candidate, that means, should Joe Biden win the election, then she would have a large voice within the new administration and would be able to implement either some or all of those views. That concept alone would cause outflows of money to other parts of the world where investors could get better returns.

amerigirl

Volt, you really didn’t explain what each one meant. The tax raises are not on the middle or lower classes, they are wealth taxes that would make up the deference from the trump tax cuts that benefitted the wealthy. It was a small tax on roughly 75,000 households which would bring in $3.75 trillion in revenue. The richest people got most of the tax breaks from the trump plan and pay about 3.2% of their wealth in federal, state, and local taxes this year, while the bottom 99% pay about 7.2%. There would be no tax on any household with a net worth of less than $50 million (99.9% of American households) your may want to read this to understand her tax plan. https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/elizabeth-warrens-wealth-tax-is-an-old-idea-and-its-time-has-come If we have Medicare for all (the social program you mentioned) then there would be no reason that pharmaceuticals shouldn’t be art of the program and lower the prices. Don’t you think that the entire country should have broadband access? I don’t believe she would be selected as VP. We already have an outflow to the world and it protects many of our interests.

Voltaire

AG—the reason that I abbreviated her policies is that a full explanation of each policy topic would have taken up way too much text on this site. Elizabeth Warren’s proposed approach represents a socialist agenda similar to that of Senator Bernie Sanders. I don’t have a problem with a wealth tax, per se. However, I do have problems with her other proposed tax raises, notably capital gains. She is also very negative on trade policies. She also wants the Government to go in and break up large swaths of the U.S. economy (technology, biotechnology, agribusiness, finance, meatpacking companies) on antitrust. Under her plan, Elizabeth Warren would also greatly expand the largesse and scope of Government with additional programs and regulations. All of these policies produce a very anti-business environment. Why would anyone want to invest money in this country with that anti-business environment? No, they, like me, would not want to invest here but would rather move money to other places in the world (emerging markets, Europe, Asia, etc) where you can get a better return because the business environment would be more stable/supportive.

jbsets

America was great until Trump destroyed it. Not sure why that is jealousy. I love the new hats. Keep America Great Again? Who thought that up? It is either great and you want to keep it that way, or it's not great and you want to make it great. Keeping it great again makes no sense. So typical of this administration...nonsensical. Such a shame.

Voltaire

Jbsets--I would suspect that Trump and his campaign staff thought up the phrase "Keeping It Great Again". It actually does make sense. Using Trump's viewpoint, he was responsible in the first term to "Make America Great Again", the restoration of America's greatness, through the implementation of his policies. If he is elected to a second term, he would, in his viewpoint, be responsible for "Keeping America Great Again" by continuation of those initial policies that made the country great.

ChocolateDinosaur

On that note - we worked to help register over 250 new voters over the weekend. You have a voice, may America and her true Patriots let their voices ring on November 3, 2020. The more people that vote, the better.

Make sure that you are registered and have a plan. Talk to your spouses and voting age children.

https://www.elections.virginia.gov/registration/

amerigirl

Wonderful news! Thanks for your time!

Lawman

Need I say it again, another victory. Some bushwhacker runs around conducting raids for a few years and a whole area based organization is named for this thug. Please, about dang time. Harry Byrd Highway is next. And it’s all being televised.

Well Water Person

What a collection of wimps and no back bones.

amerigirl

Why because it was a confederate name? The new name reflects their mission better.

Voltaire

AG--I agree with you that the new name does sound better.

ABee

Education is a huge component of the Mosby Heritage Area.

It is disappointing that the membership was not consulted on this name change. In one PC move, the association has buried years of branding. My post is not intended to elevated Mosby's actions , but to point out that his name generated huge interest that inspired school kids (and adults) to study this man. Studying history forces us to learn that these historical figures were flawed.

The Association leadership can congratulate themselves on this move, but certainly their membership will tank as the Piedmont name does NOT inspire.

Sad.

Lawman

Bah Humbug. I am sure little kids were interested in a racist thug who worked to keep people enslaved. Oh wait, for some reason that story never gets told about this guy.

RandomName2019

Out of curiosity, what does the Mosby affiliation inspire in you?

loudouncommonsense

names don't inspire..ideas, goals and programs do. Or else we'd have: "The Kill Cancer Association" instead of American Cancer Society, or "The Red Vampire" for the Red Cross Blood Bank. Or "People who gave their Guts to the Military" instead of the American Legion

AshburnRez

Oh thank goodness. I can finally sleep at night.

What a joke this cancel culture is.

amerigirl

Welcome to the 21st century

Lawman

Cancel white supremacist culture. Get it right.

BladerFool

Thank-you to the nonprofit for changing their name. Let's celebrate other, more deserving Virginians. Like George Marshall who proposed actions to help others in a destroyed Europe. A real American. How about the Marshall Heritage area?

Loudoun4Trump

Yeah...lets give a guy who spent a bunch of American taxpayer dollars in Europe to enrich himself.....if he spent his own money I would be all for it....but he was just another bureaucrat claiming fame off the hardworking american taxpayer....piedmont will do for now, until that is deemed racist by the mob.....

loudouncommonsense

are you talking about Thomas Jefferson?

Loudoun4Trump

No I live in the present and not 250 years ago....

MAGA Hats Turning Up On EBay

When did you turn against politicians enriching themselves at taxpayer expense? Your namesake is pretty darn good at it.

Loudoun4Trump

When I saw Hunter Biden get a 83k a month no show job from his daddy Quid Pro Joe who said if you dont fire the prosecutor you dont get the taxpayer money...and sob the guy was fired.....

amerigirl

L4T, and how did that cost taxpayers? He did a job and he got paid as a lawyer for a company. All the right wings fake news like to say that what you said is true but even their own fact checks said they can't prove anything. They are just fantastic at the conspiracy theories.

LetSanityPrevail

If a little research was done, the proponent of George Marshall would find out he did not support integration of the military, supported General Moseley who was anti-Black.

amerigirl

Either you're lying or show proof.

LetSanityPrevail

Check out the David S. Wyman Institute for Holocaust Studies. (not sure the link will be allowed in the post http://new.wymaninstitute.org/2003/11/holocaust-studies-institute-asks-powell-to-repudiate-gen-marshalls-bigotry/)

Loudoun4Trump

Just call it & or formally known as Prince....I mean Mosby whatever.....this is getting comical now...

WesternSky

Piedmont Heritage is such a racist term.

Waterfordresident

Liberalism is a cancer. All these snowflakes talking about slavery a couple hundred years ago, but are quiet about it still going on now. How about put your energy to help people today...oh you don’t want to do that. Typical liberal hypocrites.

Why don’t you go march and protest the pyramids be torn down. They were built by slaves. People are too ignorant to realize the slave traders from the African continent were black. Many black Americans today are decedents from the African slave traders selling their people as slaves. But let’s not talk about that.

RandomName2019

Look at all that false equivalency and outrage, then tell me again who the snowflakes are?

MAGA Hats Turning Up On EBay

I'm liberal but I'm not as angry or resentful as you appear to be. I hope your world brightens...

LoudounClear

Waterfordresident, I'm thinking maybe this isn't so much about liberalism being a cancer or hypocritical people choosing to do one thing and not another. I think it has more to do with the way America in general has treated Black American in particular. Only ethnic group that has been enslaved, disenfranchised, lynched, segregated, denied access to credit, mass-incarcerated, and so on. That Mosby took up arms to preserve their enslavement is the nub of the problem honoring him today. He can continue to exist, of course (hint, he's dead though) but people feel a little squeamish about celebrating him. Do you see how that might make this a little different than going after the Great Pyramids?

KK153

if you think John S. Mosby took up arms to preserve the enslavement of blacks, you know nothing of John Mosby... since he was against secession and disliked the institution of slavery.

LoudounClear

Always looking for the simple answer aren't you KK? Here's a quote from Mosby: I am not ashamed of having fought on the side of slavery – a soldier fights for his country – right or wrong – he is not responsible for the political merits of the course he fights in . . . The South was my country." So let's not try to rewrite history to say this or that Confederate fought against the Union but really hated slavery. Do we care what he was thinking? I believe we judge him by his actions.

RandomName2019

Be that as it may, Mosby still fought on the side of the CSA in support of the secession and the institution of slavery which was enshrined in every secessionist document and in the CSA constitution. Clearly he didn't let his personal principles guide him.

Squaks11

LC - So if we Judge a man by his actions how do you feel about Lincoln and his massacre of the Indians? Using your logic anything with Lincolns name should be removed.

LoudounClear

Squaks11...I think if you check the record Abraham Lincoln had many, many enduring accomplishments. Made some mistakes, sure, but to lump him in with a guy like Mosby who was great a being a guerrilla fighter and not much else misses the point.

KK153

Loudoun Clear... instead of pulling a single quote, try reading Mosby's entire memoir...it may help you put together a complete thought on the matter. But since you are into single non contextual quotes and A. Lincoln..here's a few for you to try and get your head around:

"I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause] ... I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people"

"If I could save the union without freeing any slaves I would do it;"

"I will say here, while upon this subject, that I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of Slavery in the States where it exists."

A. Lincoln

amerigirl

True, he knew they would lose but he was still one of the Confederacy’s most decorated war heroes, Look at which side he picked even when he knew better.

amerigirl

Squaks, Lincoln wasn’t a traitor to his country he tried to keep the US united.

Squaks11

AG -

Sure he kept the country together but he was no friend to the Native Americans and the distain he held for them and black people would make him a KKK member now.

amerigirl

Squaks, using your logic trump would be in the KKK. He hates Native Americans and has since his casino days when he claimed Native-run casinos bring violence, drug trafficking, and “broken homes” to unsuspecting communities. When they asked for PPE for the virus, they were sent body bags with toe tags included. He created funding for the virus and then put it on hold last heard they hadn’t received a cent. Trump administration abruptly revoked reservation status for Mashpee Wampanoag tribal lands in Massachusetts in late March, just as tribal members were scrambling to figure out how to best protect themselves from the coronavirus.

Squaks11

AG - Trump is the worst ever and I am sure he would be embraced by them. As usual when you have no good answer you deflect.

Now that you know I agree about you with Trump and most of his cronies why don't you reply back to what I asked you.

amerigirl

Squak, I commented which I am entitled to do in a comment section. I hate to tell you this but you have to ask a question if you want an answer, you never asked me anything, you asked LC. But in reality no one is beholden to you to give you an answer.

Squaks11

AG - You make me laugh when you make comments like yours when are posting this to someone else.

amerigirl Aug 4, 2020 12:37pm

Explain your bizarre rational

Here is my question to you. Based on Lincoln's comments about black people and his mass hanging of American Indians and his feeling about Native Americans you still continue to support him?

amerigirl

Squaks, as I said before I don’t have to answer your questions. Let me also say there was no reason for you to start being rude to me about a comment I made about the KKK. Don’t you think that saying something about blowing up the Washington Monument is bazaar? Especially when the commenter had just mentioned renaming? I will answer your question this time but if you continue to be nasty with me for no reason then you will be ignored. Lincoln ordered 38 Native Americans hung right after the Sioux uprising, which was a deadly attack on settlers. He also commuted 265. I have mixed feelings because I think the Sioux had a reason to do something since they were treated so badly. I think it was avoidable. The same when it came to slavery, I think he was headed in the right direction but he definitely wasn’t there yet. Now answer my question. When did I say I supported Lincoln? I haven't. You can support some issues and not support others on any person.

Petegolf1

Can't take away the past. Taking down statue's and changing names isn't going to change anything.

Lawman

Yep but it takes away the glorification and puts it in perspective.

amerigirl

That is called history. It won't change so why do we have to have so many statues and so many titles that disrespect the heritage of the US? The south fought against the US .

Voltaire

AG—I would overall agree with you on your first statement about history. However, there are some elements within society who would like to revise history. As to statues, some southern states have statues that depict Confederate officers/units who came from that state. It was a way for the state to recognize those individuals, regardless of whether it is right or not. Nowadays, it apparently doesn’t matter as people also have problems with statues of the victors, such as Abraham Lincoln, U.S. Grant, and other Union officers.

Concerned

The Waterford Gentrification Foundation needs to understand the actual "settlement" date of Waterford. The signs they post ignore the fact that Native Americans were "settled" in Waterford long before the Quakers "settled" in Waterford usurping the land from the Native Americans. The gentrification issue, taking properties from the African American community under the guise "we will do a better job preserving your history," and the Waterford slave auctions seem to be conveniently ignored. I am not sure where the lack of consistency is coming from in what appears to be a very "liberal" town?

amerigirl

Your whole statement is hypocritical. Lets see any conservative that wants to help people. They just want to take their food, insurance, housing, etc. This is the US and people have the right under the constitution to protest here. Pulling insane comparisons form other countries is mere diversion.

Voltaire

AG--No, you can't say that there is not anyone who leans conservative that doesn't want to help people. That statement is a blanket assumption and that is wrong.

Also, the use of comparisons from other parts of the globe actually is actually useful.

amerigirl

Volt, I am talking about conservative policies in the government. Policies like trying to end the ACA with no other health plan, cuts to SNAP, that would make people go hungry, trying to limit Medicare and Medicaid where the elderly, handicapped and poor would suffer. Slashing rental assistance and the Rural Development loan assistance program, cutting Title 1, Pell Grants, etc., etc. You also said leaning conservative, I said conservative. So yes I can easily say that.

Voltaire

AG—the second sentence in your original comment was as follows: “…Let’s see any conservative that wants to help people…” Based on that statement, you still cannot make that argument. Not everyone who is conservative (whether solidly or leaning is irrelevant) automatically does not want to help people. As for the clarification through the addition of the word “policies”, that does help somewhat. I don’t believe that you can make blanket statements about Government policies/programs. Each program, be it initiated by either a conservative or a liberal government, has to be examined on its own merits. There were good government programs done by both conservative and liberal governments.

amerigirl

Volt, yes, any true conservatist, not right leaning or plain republican. If you think that is true please show me one that helps other than giving to charities for the write-off. But as I said it was about policies. I support that comment whether you say I can or not.

Voltaire

AG--OK. I, for example, am clearly not liberal and I donate money to various charities and don't ask for a tax write-off. I didn't say that you can or cannot say it. I did say that the statement is FACTUALLY wrong. There is a difference.

amerigirl

Volt, you are clearly not a conservative either. The statement is NOT FACTUALLY wrong. What conservative thinks welfare programs are ok?

Voltaire

AG—actually, I hold moderate political views so I am an oddity nowadays. As to the statement, I believe that conservatives do not have a problem with the Government providing assistance to those who need it. I believe that the conservatives have a problem with the delivery method. Conservatives want the Government to provide assistance but also encourage those people to get training/education and skills so that they can get employment and be self-sufficient. They don’t like the idea of Government providing handouts without the training/education to encourage self-sufficiency.

amerigirl

Volt, some republicans may not have a problem with assistance but you can’t be serious when it comes to conservatives. They have tried to end Medicaid and Medicare, cut the SNAP program, and called for invasive action on those receiving benefits. They have tried to create provisions like; taking time off for a new baby would delay retirement, sending food instead of SNAP (not knowing any food restrictions for allergies, religions, etc people had), requiring people to have so many hours of work to have health insurance, which doesn’t work well when you are in your 80’s or 90’s or are handicapped. Not everyone can get training/education and skills. How do you tell an 70 or older with health issues that they have to be trained and get a job or go hungry or without medial treatment?

Voltaire

AG—I think it depends on the term “conservatives”. Not all conservatives oppose the welfare state. Leading conservative thinkers such as Irving Kristol and George Will (before he got disgusted and became independent) have vocally advocated for the welfare state. In his 1987 book Fairness to Markets, libertarian economist Richard McKenzie argued that welfare benefits were essential to the operation of a free market. Without them, society’s net losers, such as workers who lost their jobs due to free trade policies, would put up roadblocks that would undermine the market, such as protectionism, that would ultimately cost more in terms of growth than the cost of welfare. McKenzie stated: “The welfare state is not only desirable but most likely necessary for the continued collective acceptance of the market system. Welfare, albeit limited in scope and amount, meets goals of efficiency (as economists define efficiency) as well as equity and fairness.” The problem that conservatives have with the welfare state isn’t the goals of the system but rather the financing/administration of the welfare state. The conservatives are trying to implement provisions to reform the system due to fiscal issues. Social entitlement programs are about 37% of the overall Federal budget (2X the size of the defense budget). The ideas that you identify in your post show that there are some conservative legislators who do not understand all the variables at work with the welfare state. They want quick fixes and that is not how to fix the financing/administration of the system. There are many people who want to do the research to understand the root causes of why the welfare state doesn’t work well and try to do real reforms. For all of his faults, there were a few members of Congress who did try to research and understand this problem, along with other resource problems. For example, I do give Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) credit for his extensive work on trying to reform the Federal budget. He did take the time to understand the causes/problems and tried to propose solutions. Nobody wanted to hear them. No wonder he retired from Congress and went back to WI. I don’t blame him at all….Janesville, WI is a heck of a lot better than being in DC trying to make changes to a system that doesn’t want any…

amerigirl

Volt, Irving Kristol was a neo-conservatist, not a fiscal conservatist. George Will was against any social programs or things that would benefit the population that didn’t have a fiscal benefit like policies by the EPA. Will soke out against welfare programs on a regular basis. As you said Richard McKenzie was a libertarian. Conservatives typically claim that they don’t object to poor people receiving assistance; they just think government ought not be the agent of delivery (WAPO). Examples; Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) and Ivanka Trump’s paid parental leave plan, which would require new parents to borrow from their own Social Security and retire later than they otherwise would have, penalizes parents for their decision to have children. Trump has proposed replacing SNAP benefits, with something called an “America’s Harvest Box.” assistance with food doesn’t mean eating government-assigned peanut butter out of a standard-issue box. You used Paul Ryan as an example., but his reform was based on taking from the needy. WSJ said When House Speaker Paul Ryan leaves Congress, the Republican Party will lose its most influential advocate for changes to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. His federal poverty reduction programs are ineffective and supports cuts to welfare, child care, Pell Grants, food stamps, and other federal assistance programs. Ryan supports block granting Medicaid to the states and the privatization of social security and Medicare.

Squaks11

AG - That is to be one of the most ignorant posts you have ever made and that says alot.

amerigirl

maybe some people are just too ignorant to understand the post, can you relate? How ignorant are you?

Squaks11

AG -

If this is what you meant I am talking about conservative policies in the government. Policies like trying to end the ACA then your post first post did not say that. I agree with you that at a political level their policies are horrible.

However at a personal level I know many conseratives that do an amazing amount for people in need in and out of their community.

Lawman

It’s talked about all the time, just that white racist like yourself never take time to read about it. Funny thing, the slave catchers in Africa did not build a country on those folks backs and then tried to keep them from benefiting even after they were freed. There is a difference between a person that steal $100 and a person that kills the husband, rapes the wife and then steals the $100.

Squaks11

Lawman - The slave traders kept themselves rich in their own countries. Millions of people kidnapped and sold so the people in power in Africa could stay in power. That is the original sin and allowed the horror to begin.

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