After hours of deliberation, the Loudoun County School Board voted early Wednesday to direct Loudoun County Public Schools administrators to implement a 100 percent distance learning model for the return to classes in the fall.

Earlier in Tuesday’s School Board meeting — which ran past 1 a.m. the next day — LCPS Superintendent Eric Williams told board members the division believes full-time remote learning is the best back-to-school option in the face of the COVID-19 health crisis.

While Williams’ recommendation contravened the board’s June 29 vote to implement a hybrid instructional model with a 100 percent distance-learning option, he emphasized the pandemic’s erratic nature means no board decision regarding the return to classes is guaranteed to be permanent.

“LCPS has consistently emphasized that decisions will be based on conditions, and that plans are subject to change given how much is unknown,” Williams said. He added staff’s reasoning is based on processing time for local COVID-19 tests, insights from school-level planners, data relating to child care and other concerns.

Per staff’s suggestion and the board’s eventual vote, the originally planned hybrid model will instead be implemented in stages, though the specifics of those stages have yet to be delineated.

In his presentation, the superintendent said this staged implementation would help the division consistently uphold public health precautions, provide more consistent instruction for students and increase the likelihood of meeting staffing needs, among other forecasted benefits.

Assistant Superintendent for Instruction Ashley Ellis followed Williams, presenting a rundown of progress and challenges with planning for both hybrid and distance learning procedures. The greatest shortcoming of the hybrid model, she said, is that it is “impossible for [LCPS] to completely eliminate the risk of COVID-19 within schools and administrative offices.”

“I think we need to be really realistic about that,” Ellis added.

Meanwhile, she said many Loudoun teachers and school principals are optimistic about distance learning — though, as indicated at last week’s Loudoun Education Association-hosted ”Solidarity for Safety” rally, some are not so much optimistic as they are adamant.

“With the hybrid model, there are too many unanswered questions,” incoming LEA President Sandy Sullivan said during Tuesday’s public comment section. “Now is the time to fully focus on making distance learning successful ... and ensuring all our students’ needs are met through distance learning.”

However, staff outlined plenty of obstacles in planning for 100 percent remote instruction, such as the conduction of courses requiring in-person, hands-on learning experience or face-to-face assessments. These include some special education programs and a number of classes offered at the Academies of Loudoun, the latter being pointed out by public commenter Christina Zamora, who is enrolled in AoL’s Monroe Advanced Technical Academy.

“After much hard work, I was admitted to the cosmetology program at MATA,” she said. “Please allow full, in-person learning for this program, or at least a hybrid program. Without this program, I will not have the education I need to pursue my career upon graduation.”

The board member most vocally opposed to implementing full-time distance learning was Jeff Morse (Dulles District). While he said he would support a return to remote instruction should a COVID “hotspot” occur within a school building during the fall, he opined to ultimately not allow families to determine their children’s learning models would be “a grave injustice.”

“Simply stated, a child this semester, or possibly even this year, will never meet their teacher, not even with a mask. That is devastating for our children,” Morse said. “We aren’t using numbers anymore, we’re not using facts, we’re using feelings and sentiments. It’s emotionally charged, and I understand that, but students who need more than two days [of in-person instruction] are now going to get zero days of classroom assistance.”

Ian Serotkin (Blue Ridge District) vocalized confliction on the matter. While he acknowledged the health and safety advantages of remote learning, he expressed concern with the challenges and lack of equity potentially posed to special-education students, English-learning students, families with working parents and those without access to wireless internet, among others.

“If we move to 100 percent distance learning, unless the plan accounts for these situations, we’re going to be trading one set of problems for another,” he said. “Maybe this is the least bad solution, but I’m very concerned that we will not be providing an education for many of our most vulnerable students until we can get them back in the classroom.”

However, several others said the board’s top priority should be taking whatever steps necessary to keep students and staff safe, and that the only certain means of doing so would be to keep them out of buildings. Beth Barts (Leesburg District) — who earlier this week stated her intent to make the motion to implement full distance learning — was one such proponent.

“It’s been really hard on all of us to try to come up with answers, as far as meeting the needs — emotional and academic — of our families. But I have to always focus on safety,” she said. “We’ve spent millions … of dollars on security in our buildings, because the No. 1 fear for a lot of us is the thought of an intruder entering our schools. We trust our schools to keep our children safe.”

“For me, this is not a question of what plan is better; it’s more about life and death,” Denise Corbo (At-Large) added. “Schools and students are just not designed for COVID. We know that, but we have to be prepared. Otherwise, we’re going to have to be prepared for loss of life.”

Harris Mahedavi (Ashburn District) made the eventual motion to enforce the distance learning model, seconded by Barts. Around 12:40 a.m., after a final bout of discussions, the motion passed 7-2, with Morse and John Beatty (Catoctin District) opposed.

The vote comes one week after the deadline by which LCPS asked families and teaching staff to indicate whether they wanted to return to classes via the hybrid learning model or distance learning option.

Tuesday’s Loudoun County School Board meeting is available to view in full at vimeo.com/440630581.____________

This story has been updated from the initial news alert.

(532) comments

Kent Clizbe

Businesses face this all the time--adapt or die. Businesses, when they become dinosaurs, go bankrupt and disappear--with other business models emerging in the new reality. See Sears, Kmart, Barnes & Noble--and then see Amazon, for example.

It's time for LCPS to adapt. That may require re-thinking the entire business model. What good is a series of multi-million dollar brick and mortar buildings in every neighborhood if learning is virtual? What will we do with those buildings?

Time to let the market take over. Give parents control over per-child funding LCPS has in its budget. Let parents support solutions that are right for them--elearning, private school, charter school, etc.

Let LCPS become a landlord--rent out the massive spaces in their real estate portfolio--until they can sell it. Taxpayers can make a profit on those sales. Rationalize their workforce--restructure based on the new reality, hire the right people for the right jobs, and reduce where needed.

Lots of good can come of this disruption.

yellowbird

The Tea Party died time to move on.

Kent Clizbe

We Loudoun County property owners, who pay the property taxes that fund Loudoun County Public School system, are, in effect, the shareholders of a massive, billion dollar business. We give more than a billion dollars a year to the LCPS managers.

That business model is now extinct.

The massive spending on a palatial headquarters, sprawling 20 acre campuses for elementary, middle, and high schools spread across the county, a fleet of thousands of $100,000 busses, an army of employees--it's all defunct, not needed, obsolete.

Voltaire

Kent Clizbe--I agree with you that the public sector, like private sector enterprises, such operate in a fiscally responsible and prudent manner. If there are costs on the school system balance sheet, such as excess labor and physical assets, that are not needed, then they should be eliminated. However, it is not right to compare taxpayers to shareholders in a private sector enterprise. As an instrument of capitalism, the fundamental goal of a for-profit corporation is to maximize shareholder wealth. Therefore the shareholders barometer of success is a quantifiable return on investment. Contrast that to the taxpayers who fund government activities. Their barometer of success is the subjective measure of getting value for their dollar. These are very different expectations which require distinct management methods and priorities.

Kent Clizbe

Thanks, Voltaire.

Government's outputs cannot be measured? Ok. Except for the school system--which eats up nearly all of our property taxes. They have a clear and measurable mission--to educate the children in their care.

As stakeholders of this system--in effect, shareholders, since we pay them the billions that they spend--we can demand their services be measure. We can demand that the multi-billion dollar LCPS organization act like a business.

That means when the market they've built their business around disappears (in-person classes in huge buildings with kids bussed in) and a new market appears (online/virtual learning), then they must adapt. Buildings? Busses? People?

Adapt. Think like a business.

ace10

Too much to ask. Apparently.

lcgram

I'm an LCPS high school teacher. I am over 50 and I have a couple of medical issues that would put me at high risk should I get Covid-19. Would I return to the classroom if asked? Absolutely. Would I be scared? Yes, but it's my job, same as all the nurses and doctors who risk their lives every day. Am I willing to teach from home? Absolutely. What bothers me is those who write that teachers working from home are doing "nothing". This is not true for most of us. The LCPS teachers have been attending classes this summer to address online learning and the new tools that are being given to us. In the last 24 hours I've received 12 emails from my peers discussing these new tools. Many of us are spending our summer break learning, practicing, communicating, and preparing for classes, whether they are face to face or online. When the schools shut down last March and moved to online learning only, I worked harder than I ever have in my entire career. I had to learn so many new skills, new software, and new techniques in a short amount of time. I used Youtube videos and "how to" posts to teach myself. For about 4 weeks I slept very little as I created interactive documents that would guide my students step by step. I created hours of videos explaining how to do the work I was expecting them to do. I used Edpuzzle, so that the students had to answer multiple choice questions in order to get through the video. I could see how much of the video the students watched and the percentage of questions they answered correctly. I commented on the documents the students submitted, both good and bad. When the comment pointed out a misconception, most students wrote back and corrected or improved it. I agree that online is not as good as face to face instruction. However, please do not accuse teachers working from home as doing "nothing". I don't doubt there were teachers who took advantage of the situation and did very little, but I hope they were the exception and not the rule. If that was your experience for your child at the end of the term, I suggest you contact their Principal. As for me, I will be prepared for either platform and will do my best to help all of my students learn and progress.

Virginia SGP

The guidance put out by the "administration" or "principal" you suggest we contact stated 30 minutes per week of live instruction. How is that considered effective?

I assume that at least 1 other teacher taught the same course you did. Two questions:

1. Why was none of this prepared before the shutdown? In other words, if we have been teaching digitally for 5+ years, why did it take this shutdown for teachers to make use of the tools?

2. If other teachers are teaching your same course, why is there different materials used across the county? Not only could LCPS produce better material by improving on the current "best" curricula, but each teacher would need to put in very little time if they were only tackling incremental improvements. What confidence should parents have that teachers are not re-inventing the wheel at various levels of success?

3. Other than allowing teachers to care for their own kids, what is the basis for not requiring (or even allowing) teachers to provide 3-4 hours of live instruction per day? Other disricts have regular course schedules, just online. Why is LCPS cutting that by at least half?

Thank you for being willing to teach in-person. If those who are willing would have been as loud as the irrational ones supposedly refusing to do so (most were bluffing as the data shows), then maybe we would have 5-day in-person school. Even you must acknowledge there is no risk reduction in the hybrid, only risk transfer at best. Kids will be stuck in daycare with the daycare trying to assist kids in joining online. That will be a disaster. The only folks who benefit from mandatory hybrid are teachers. Can you at least acknowledge that the decision was made to placate teachers?

Loudounlistener

organize a protest, start here: https://interwapp14.loudoun.gov/repi/eventRequest.aspx

amerigirl

and you think that job is worth dying for? If you can do it online and keep everyone safe wouldn't that be better?

wileywebs

LOL. For teachers at risk accommodations can be made, or perhaps they can contribute remotely or in some other fashion. But the vast majority of teachers will be safer in school than most other places (data backs this up). Kids are practically immune and seldom infect others. As Morse emphasized, kids need to be in school for healthy growth. Of course to learn, but also for mental, social, physical, and for some, nutritional needs. Pediatricians uniformly favor kids back in school full time.

amerigirl

LOL all teachers would be at risk with having to be shut in a building that shares the same air system with others. Remember who were the first 2 to die from the virus in Loudoun? A teacher and a senior at a nursing home. They are not safer being in school that have shared air systems. Kids do not get it as bad, and hardly ever die from it but they are far from immune and they are definitely spreaders. There have been about 1,000 kids in the US that have either died or been hospitalized with covid. The huge majority recovered at home but they need parents to take care f them and many of those parents caught the virus from their kids. Everyone would like their kids to go back to school, and a few months won’t kill them or their parents, the virus on the other hand…….

wileywebs

AG - This is response to your reply to me 7/24 @10:32 am ...

You are grossly misinformed. As of July 11, a total of 25 kids age 1-14 have died from covid-19 vs 220 who have died from flu and/or pneumonia. I'm sure many more have died from accidents, suicide or even by gunshot in Democrat run cities.

The ventilation theory is just speculation at best, there is zero evidence. The appalling number of those dying in nursing homes is due to infected residents being forced to return to their facilities and infecting staff and other residents. If not for Cuomo and some other derelict governors, the covid-19 death count would be halved. Chances are far greater that the teacher who unfortunately died caught the virus at Whole Foods or at home.

You need to find other sources of news and facts to educate yourself.

amerigirl

Wiley. Why were you going back to July 11? Yes, I get it people die everyday from all kinds of things and we put measures in place to try and prevent that from happening. Flu shots, seat belts, gun safety laws etc. Guess what even though democrats run almost every major city, people who die from suicide or even by gunshot die in republican cities too. It’s not like they are immune just because there are less of them. As far as ventilation systems; since they have determined that covid is airborne earlier this month they warn about Maximizing ventilation, avoiding recirculation

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/05/indoor-spread-covid-19-can-be-lessened-experts-say

You seem to need some updated education on the virus, such as how long you would be near someone, how it is transmitted etc.

Gege

Thank you so much for all of your hard work! My son’s 3rd grade teacher also put in effort to ensure she was teaching her class (as best she could) during the initial days of “distance learning.” I could tell that she actually cared and was actually putting together weekly plans for her students.

My daughter’s 1st grade teacher, however, did not. Her teaching consisted mostly of YouTube videos that taught less than Schoolhouse Rock. HOWEVER, it was her first year teaching EVER, so I felt bad for her. I used other means to fill in my daughter’s education gaps.

I just want you to know that it is apparent when a teacher is actually teaching during these strange times we are in, so I am sure your students (and especially their parents!) this year will appreciate all your hard work.

LetsBreal

LOL - lesson to those who want more gubmint.

Barry Hussein

Remember this in November. Private schools starting up in person classes with sensible plans in place to mitigate the risks and virtually all businesses doing the same. Board of Education thinks there are no consequences for this decision - they offer us substandard virtual instruction as an alternative, let parents scramble to fill the void they have created, allow some of the teachers to whine "I am going to die" and allow them to work from home and do nothing, continue to pay bus drivers and other employees not gainfully employed, etc. My company had to layoff or furlough people to survive. Tell the teachers their paycheck is in the classroom. I am sure you drive to Harris Teeter; you can leave your safe space and go to school too. Must be nice to be accountable to nobody. Your day will come

Loudounlistener

Well said.

gtrunner

+1: high taxes + a new police force + distance learning = winning!

amerigirl

Not all private schools, just certain ones as I pointed out before. If you can work from home such as distance learning why wouldn't you do it? They can still work vs the people who you work with who don't seem to be able to accomplish that. Going to the grocery store is not the same as being closed in a classroom for hours on end with the same people. It isn't rocket science.

Barry Hussein

Why? In person learning learning is much more effective ... not even close, quality of LCPS distance learning guaranteed to be poor, parents (who pay the bills) want it, it can be done safely (I have been working in a large office complex with my colleagues for 2 months with no serious issues), too much time set aside for "asymmetric" learning, zero kids in Loudoun County have died from COVID, kids benefit from the social aspects of being in school, parents have jobs, teachers are getting paid to work ... how many more reasons do you need? If LCPS were a real company, it would be bankrupt with leadership like this

amerigirl

Yes it much more effective and I'm sure everyone would prefer that but the stakes are too high right now. Do you remember how quickly it spreads through enclosed places like nursing homes? The Problem they had in NYC was apartments and buildings with shared ventilation. That was why people who quarantined became infected. Just because you and the people in your office have been lucky doesn't mean everyone else will. One of my son's who is with one of the big 3 car manufacturers has told me how many times they have had to stop operations and clean areas before they could open again because someone got sick. We have much less risk in Loudoun but look at how many work outside of the county. All of your reasons are great in a normal world. I couldn't agree with you more but this isn't a normal world right now.

dpwalker

If we are going 100% virtual why am I paying Loudoun County in person prices? Why can't I take this experience elsewhere for cheaper? I ask for full transparency of the budget. Freeze all real estate investments for schools. I think exploring the option to not utilize the facilities we've paid for and adopt education as a service will slowly erode the education system we fund today. You are playing with fire. The vast majority of the country has adapted to the situation and pivoted while Loudoun hasn't felt a pinch. You've robbed your community. The hybrid approach was the most compromising decision for all parties. Why do I feel like if this was private education a legit plan would have been developed? Maybe because child care facilities figured it out because they work for it? Yuck.

amerigirl

In person prices? is that a thing? Who do you think is doing the prep work and teaching those classes?

dpwalker

I don’t need to pay Loudoun prices if it’s the open internet. I can obtain much more efficient services elsewhere. I wouldn’t want to trouble faculty. They’ve got unemployment paperwork that needs to completed.

amerigirl

dp, go for it good luck with the SOL's

ChocolateDinosaur

Another day has dawned. It is becoming clear just how desperate people are for help of any kind with their families and their futures. The next wave of desperation will be as people who cannot pay their rent or mortgages are evicted. The Coronavirus crisis has been granted momentum by the spread of false information through Twitter, Facebook, cable news, etc. Pile on a percentage of the population that is unable or unwilling to extrapolate data from existing information, parse through the thinnest of nuance, or read beyond a headline and you get where we are now. Consider deleting your Facebook or social media for your mental health - this is for posters who would claim allegiance to either political party. Same goes for Cable news/AM radio. Tune out for a week and see how you feel.

You have a voice and you have a right to make it heard. Make sure that you are registered to vote and that you have a plan for November 3rd, 2020. I am guilty of political apathy leading up to 2016 and am trying to make amends now by volunteering time and money leading up to the election. I plan on making myself available to transport voters to polling stations on Election Day. Help is not coming from your Federal Government at this time. Respond how you best see fit.

https://www.elections.virginia.gov/citizen-portal/?ref=voteusa

LoudounClear

Trump said he alone could fix things four years ago. Can you name anything that isn't worse than it was 4 years ago? I can't either...

Countyrez

Intolerance and anger by "tolerant" liberals, definitely much worse!

amerigirl

Is there anything you can't blame on liberals? I bet if you got fired it would be some liberals fault. Can you name a real thing that has improved since trump went in? Like the deficit? Our standing in the World?

Voltaire

AG--I do believe that the Democrats in Congress greatly helped a whole lot with increasing the Federal debt/deficit. You can't paint that all on Trump, although he does have some culpability too.

amerigirl

Volt, it was the democrats that tried to make sure that people over a certain income did not get relief income, it was the Senate that shot it down. Trump has raised the deficit by $3 trillion as of 6 months ago. He has done this in a good economy. He has raised the debt consistency higher than Obama did who was pulling us out of a recession. Obama entered office in the height of the Great Recession and for that reason had to grow the debt, but. as the economy recovered the deficits shrank to a low of $442 billion in 2015 and was $585 billion his last year in office. That is Billion not trillion. Trump was handed an economy that was growing and instead of balancing the budget he has grown it by trillions.

springerdad

LC - Taking your posts straight from Karen Tumulty. How original. At least credit her.

FMW

I can’t think of anything that isn’t better. Even though he had to spend some of his time fighting off the law suites and lies of the maniac left, the President still made huge improvements in the lives of all Americas.

amerigirl

That is fantasy land material.

Loudounlistener

Nice hijack, but we're beyond Trump here.

Voltaire

LL--You would like to believe that but, no, apparently every article on LTM must have some connection to Donald Trump as people posting here on this site will always link him, pro or con, to everything. Probably even the paper's weather forecast....

Voltaire

AG—OK. I am not referring to Obama’s handling of the Great Recession. I believe that Obama implemented the correct mix of policies to get the economy moving out of the Great Recession. What I am arguing is that BOTH parties, Democrats and Republicans, have been responsible for increasing the national deficit/debt. That is an established economic fact. Now, I understand that the stimulus bills were required due to the COVID-19 outbreak and associated economic disruption. However, you can’t keep recklessly spending and borrowing forever. The fortunate thing is the fact that the interest rates are very low due to Federal Reserve policies. However, there are consequences for reckless spending. Somebody will take away the spending punch bowl. I will find that moment to be very interesting to see how the politicians handle that scenario.

amerigirl

Well what I was going by was the increase of debt by president. In recent history, like after Roosevelt’s 186% increase. Democrats; Truman only had 2%, Kennedy 6%, Johnson 11%, Carter 36%, Clinton 1% decrease, Obama 58% (recession) But on a regular basis republican raise the deficit. Republicans Eisenhower; 6%, Nixon 20%, Ford 38%, Reagan 142%, H.W. Bush 36%, W. Bush 57% and will have added Trump over $1 trillion by this year, that was before stimulus spending. I’m not saying anyone of them was great (except Clinton) but you can always count on the republicans to try to please the people by throwing money at them and leaving it for democrats to clean up.

Voltaire

AG—I understand/appreciate the information that you provided concerning debt to President. However, if is important to note that the President of the United States is not solely responsible for the rise and fall of the Federal deficit. The U.S. Congress has a large role to play in the rise and fall of the Federal deficit. An article in Forbes, written by Chris Conover, shows that, regardless of administration, Federal expenditures tended to be lower when Republicans controlled all or part of Congress than when Democrats were in charge. His analysis showed that, during the Clinton Administration, the average amount of inflation-adjusted per capita Federal spending was 1.7% higher when the Democrats controlled Congress after the Republican takeover in 1994. This pattern of expenditure increase repeated under the Bush Administration with a 7.9% increase during the last two years that Democrats controlled Congress compared to the six preceding years in which Republicans had voting majorities in both chambers. Under Obama, the average Federal spending in his first two years was 3.3% higher than when the Republicans took over the House of Representatives following the election sweep of 2010. So, no, it is BOTH parties, not just the Republicans that are culpable for fiscal irresponsibility.

FCPS educator

And what help should be coming from the Federal Government - Do we not have a state and local governments - the ones closest to the problems we have - before voting please take a class and understand how our government works - we have federalism type of government where powers are shared or reserved for each part of the federal , state and local level - the Federal government is limited in certain areas it is not the end all be all - I agree with cutting off cable new - people need to find reliable news sources like RealClear - stories from all sides- people need to be informed and allowed to make their own choices

ChocolateDinosaur

Agree entirely that voters should be informed and allowed to make their own choices. The best avenue to this is consuming news from a variety of written and vetted sources. Good luck.

Make sure that you have registered to vote and have a plan for November.

https://vote.elections.virginia.gov/VoterInformation

Loudoun4Trump

Why would anyone pay full freight for sub standard, partially fulfilled contract, etc? Easy you wouldn't....when do we get a refund on our taxes this year for this discount education model....layoff the bus drivers, cafeteria workers, teachers assistants, school administrators, don't need them...lay them off and give the people a refund on their very high over priced tax bill.....people certainly aren't getting the service they are paying for....If educators don't want to teach then why should we pay....REFUND THE PEOPLE....

loudouncommonsense

First action: lay-off the guy at the top who got us into this mess by not acting when he was amply warned. His 90 day notice is coming up

ace10

You're speaking about the head of the LCPS?

amerigirl

Or the idiot that never had a strategy to combat the virus because he isn't interested in it. By this time with the swine flu Obama was already distributing the vaccine.

Voltaire

AG--The same logic that I used for LoudounCommonSense's comment applies to you. Donald Trump, whether you like or hate is irrelevant, does NOT make local policy decisions for the Loudoun County Public School system. [offtopic]

amerigirl

Volt that might be your opinion about how decisions are made, but I believe that all these trump sheep are basing their decisions on what trump has said about opening the schools, so yeah, it is relevant. There is no reason for you to tell me it is not.

Voltaire

AG—okay, a review of the United States Code and the Code of Virginia and applicable law in the Commonwealth of Virginia, that is not opinion but legal FACT. There is NO connection between the President of the United States and the decisions made by the School Board for Loudoun County Public Schools. You made the following statement: “Or the idiot that never had a strategy to combat the virus because he isn't interested in it. By this time with the swine flu Obama was already distributing the vaccine.” How does that exactly connect to the main question of this article? Better yet, how does it address the question of the base poster’s statement about the need for reducing excess costs in the public school system? It fails to answer either question satisfactorily. Therefore, it is “off-topic” and deserves to be called out as such. You call out other posters’ statements as “off topic” so it is appropriate to call out this statement as “off topic”.

amerigirl

Volt, I beg to differ. They are elected for their positions on the school board. So, the Facts are that if all the people who have been brainwashed by his lies vote on the information, he feeds them then it does effect the school board. No, Obama’s team had them working on the samples that he had sent to them to create a vaccination. The first case was in the end of April and the vaccine was being distributed by September (5 months later). That is the less than same time frame that we are in with the coronavirus, it has been here for almost 7 months. If they had had the sample (and it was offered, but we are the greatest country on earth and we can do it ourselves) and been working on a vaccine there is a good chance that kids wouldn’t have a problem going back to school. There is the answer and it is not off topic. It deals with kids going back to school.

Master Bedroom

As already posted.....

WIlliams lied, Loudoun Education Died

amerigirl

How do we know you are not lying? be specific on what Williams and LE did.

Voltaire

LCS--I believe that the topic was about the Loudoun County School Board approving full time distance learning. The last time that I checked, the primary responsibility for education was the LOCAL GOVERNMENT. Donald Trump, no matter how hard you and others on this site want to tee off on him, is NOT directly involved in local control of the county public school system. [offtopic]

Voltaire

AG—the title of the article is “UPDATE: Loudoun School Board approves full-time distance learning for the fall”. The main premise of the article, as reported by LTM is as follows: “…After hours of deliberation, the Loudoun County School Board voted early Wednesday to direct Loudoun County Public Schools administrators to implement a 100 percent distance learning model for the return to classes in the fall.” That is the basis of the article. After re-reading the entire article, I found NOTHING within the “four corners of the article” that supports your premise (or conspiracy theory) that Donald Trump had any involvement, either direct or indirect, to influence this vote. Those are the FACTS. There is no evidence at all to collaborate the conspiracy theory about Trump “brainwashed” the School Board by his “lies” and that had some “magical” effect on this vote. Also, sticking with the “four corners of the article”, there is NOTHING in the article talking about how Obama’s team handled H1N1. Again, what we have is another “what-if” scenario based on conjecture and not tied to anything related to the story. Again, that is why I noted that the comment is “off-topic” and still the call is correct as none of this conjecture links back to the basic premise of the article.

Loudounlistener

Spamming this, organize a parent protest NOW... https://interwapp14.loudoun.gov/repi/eventRequest.aspx

dpwalker

Agreed.

loudouncommonsense

""Fire the non-working teachers" "Why should we pay people who are not working" ???

OK, then "Why pay firefighters when they're not actually fighting a fire?"

Public service IS NOT LIKE MANAGING A SMALL BUSINESS where you can ramp up or ramp down employment at will.

Look, manage your own pile. The medical experts and educators should be managing this crisis, not some "I don't like taxes or masks 'cause they help other people" amateur know-nothings.

ace10

Do you know what an "on-call" firefighter is?

Their existence refute your entire comment.

Care to try again?

ace10

C'mon.... you can do it....

Give it another shot. Maybe you can come up with something that will hold even a tiny bit of water?

Loudounlistener

Meaning teachers are now on call? Fail...

ace10

Go back, read the sequence of comments again, please.

Then think about it. Give it time to sink in, if necessary.

There are firefighters who DON'T GET PAID to sit around waiting on a fire. The commenter attempted to draw a parallel and failed miserably.

amerigirl

Subs are.

loudouncommonsense

Yes, referencing the full time staff; but the point holds: who establishes the staffing needs of the fire dept? Professionals do; not citizens thinking they know more about staffing levels and firefighting than the professionals.

Let the scientists, medical professionals and educators make the call. Everybody seems to enjoy second-guessing everyone else's decisions, which can be helpful, but more often leads to wasted resources and time lags. We are facing the health fight of our lives with only social distancing and masks as our tools; the economic pain will be shortened with caution, not recklessness.

ace10

The school "professionals" in this instance have repeatedly shown that ABOVE ALL ELSE, then want to please their employees.

That makes them tools, not leaders.

Loudoun's taxpayers and Loudoun's families deserve better.

amerigirl

So sad when you can't admit you've been called out.

amerigirl

You still don't get it do you? Should you only pay firefighters while they are fighting a fire? Or do you need to pay them to be ready to fight a fire? How many "on call" firefighters do you think loudoun has? Loudoun County Department of Fire and Rescue - Operations Division have a 42 - hour work week and operate on one of three schedules: The 5-12 shift is a 12-hour day, from 6:00 am to 6:00 pm, and is based on a Monday through Friday schedule with every weekend off.

Voltaire

AG--No, this is not a proper comparison. You cannot compare emergency services to public education. Emergency services, like the military, are on 24 hour call and can be called up on a moment's notice. I don't think that anyone is going to call up teachers in LCPS on 24 hour notice, do you?

Voltaire

LCS--No, that is not correct. If LCPS is going to transition to a virtual learning environment, then there should be excess costs (labor and overhead) identified. Those costs should be eliminated as they are cost prohibitive and a drain on resources. It is no different than what major corporations do with excess costs on their balance sheets. This is basic economics/business management and should also be applied to the public sector.

Voltaire

LCS--it is not a proper comparison to compare emergency services to public education. Emergency service personnel are on 24 hour call, similar to that of the military. Public education staff are not on 24 hour call and there wouldn't be a valid need to do so. I would agree that public services are not similar to private sector. However, it does NOT excuse fiscal irresponsibility by local officials who expect the taxpayer to pick up the slack for POOR management of resources. I don't care if it is public sector or private sector. That is not acceptable. Before the county expects taxpayers to pony up additional tax revenue, which would be stupid in a recessionary economic period, the government should do everything in its power to maximize the use of the resources that it already has. If that involves layoffs and disposal of physical assets, then so be it. If they can't exercise proper fiscal discipline, then Wall Street should TEACH them through reducing the credit rating of the County's General Obligation Bonds. Better yet, let the "bond vigilantes" punish this county through jacking up interest costs so that the County can't borrow without high interest costs. Somebody has to take the punch bowl away. That is real world economics. Deal with it.

Penguin

Wow, what have these poor home school kids done all these years???? LMAO. Loudoun citizens complaining in the midst of a pandemic. Why is this so typical? Stop buying homes you can’t afford if one parent had to stay home with the kids! Stop keeping up with the Jones. You don’t need that new Lexus!

Virginia SGP

So let me get this straight. You think parents should pay full real estate taxes to cover $16K/year for each LCPS student yet be prepared to quit their jobs and do a teacher's job?

Given we have 5000 teachers just begging to get one of those lottery jobs, what about we fire 2/3 of the teachers and replace them with teachers who will (a) actually do the work they are hired to do and (b) take a starting salary thereby reducing the LCPS budget by $100Ms.

It seems like you think schools exist to shower massive salaries on teachers to not do any work In what socialist utopia did you come up with that idea?

Penguin

You are like “Conclusion man.” Can I call you that? There is flag man, so you’ll be now known as CM. Why ask just about parents paying property taxes? Thousands of folks without kids (hence not parents) pay property taxes too. So to your point, if they cannot afford their property taxes, since you would like go down that road and off on some wild tangent, then why stay in that home they cannot afford. Oh that’s right, to keep up with Jones! And I don’t know about you, but I’ve lived outside Loudoun and the taxes here are some of the cheapest in the country when you consider home value. A house worth $500k in parts of PA or NY can easily run you $20-$25k annually.

So Conclusion Man, did you also know that teachers in much poorer parts of the country also make substantially more when you take into consideration cost of living?

But at the end of the day, that all is kind of a moot point when you’re dealing with something that can kill or severely impact your health for months if not years. Equate property tax to death, please? The old two entities that are the only certainties in life, eh?

springerdad

Pen - I agree with you about the taxes. I lived in Sparta NJ 17 years ago and for my $400k house I was paying over $12K a year in taxes.

BigDaddyVA

Penguin, Brian just prattles on nonsensically all the time here. Best to ignore him as no one considers anything he says to be valid or insightful because he is always wrong but never in doubt. In other words, don’t feed the troll.

doverboy

SGP hides behind his Nom FDe Guerre. If you don't agree with his logic you are a racist or suffer from white privilege. He spouts facts and percentages but will not listen to reason. He has done nothing but complain about the school system and has taken no steps to bring communities together so as to get on top of the current situation.

Loudounlistener

Duh, if you don't have kids, you don't need to have an expensive property, nor live in Loudoun...

Virginia SGP

A whole lot of gibberish by anonymous posters who claim "nobody listens" to me but then spend an awful lot of time trying to refute my actual data, my actual research citations and my actual logic.

As always, there is no data, no research and no logic in any of these charlatans posts. Apparently, if your job gets outsourced and you bought a big house, the gov't owes you the same $$ even though there is nothing for your do do because...... well, they never have any credible explanation. Just gibberish.

Voltaire

LL--Wow. So your basic premise is that if you live in this County, have no kids then you should move? That's real good. Let's encourage a portion of the tax base to leave. That idea would definitely impact the County's finances. How would the County be able to make up the difference that has decided to move since they don't want to pay exorbitant taxes? Better yet, the ratings agencies cite a stable tax base as a reason for the "AAA" credit rating for Loudoun County General Obligation Bonds. I would guess that that rating will be revised downward and that would cause investors to revisit purchasing these bonds and that would impact the budget. Layoffs and sale of physical assets would be warranted. Maybe this scenario would force some fiscal discipline as the current County Government and County School Board/System apparently has no understanding what that concept means.

Livloudoun

SGP, if it’s that easy to hit the “lottery” you should apply and be a teacher. You complain about teachers and how much money they make. Why don’t you do it if it’s so lucrative and easy. But you won’t. Be honest with yourself. You’re scared and afraid to do it. You would rather sit on a computer, read this thread, and comment. Do you work? Do your employers know that you scan this site all day instead of doing your job?

Loudounlistener

He's talking about the teachers who are teachers who would love to win the lottery and work in Loudoun. Being a teacher here It is a lottery. 5 months off a year and still work 6 hours a day and get 5 months off a year, can't get fired, regular colas and a fat retirment in 20 years. What's not to love here? I go to work every day, so do thousands, why not teachers?

Loudounlistener

if only, the NRA, I mean LCPS lobby is too powerful, you can't even fire inept teachers in Loudoun.

Livloudoun

5 months off? 6 hours a day? 20 year retirement? Clearly you are misinformed and ignorant on the situation. You to must sit around and comment on here instead of working.

Loudounlistener

moving to LCPS system (because it was touted) then regretting it immediately. It's not about buying a Lexus, I have Toyota van and we both have to work to pay the mortgage in a townhouse.

Gege

Are you counting all people who did not choose an option- since they knew that “combined learning” was the default option- as part of the 38%?

Or are you merely counting the people who actually voted for “combined learning” vs “those who voted distance AND those who abstained” as the 38%?

When looking at the numbers, Loudoun Co has a population of 413,538.

To date, Loudoun Co has had 4,738 positive cases of COVID, with an infection rate of 1.15%

https://www.loudoun.gov/5334/COVID-19-Testing-Data

Loudoun Co has had, to date, 106 deaths due to COVID, with a death rate of 2.23% OF THOSE POSITIVE CASES, or .0002% OF THE ENTIRE COUNTY.

To close schools (I.e. “distance learning”) for this ridiculously small number is beyond ludicrous and puts our children at a further disadvantage when it comes to their education.

This is not to mention those Loudoun Co students with Special Needs, or those Loudoun Co Parents, like me, who have chronic illnesses and who will struggle with homeschooling their children.

To put this in perspective, Loudoun Co has had 4,006 deaths due to influenza this 2019/2020 season. I do not recall schools closing each year due to these “devastating” statistics.

https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/epidemiology/influenza-flu-in-virginia/influenza-surveillance/

Please stop playing Russian Roulette with our children’s education. Open up schools FULL-TIME for the 2020/2021 school year.

Comment deleted.
Loudounlistener

It's not liberals, it's spoiled LCPS teachers who have pull on the board.

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Livloudoun

Loudoun Pulse. I find your comment repulsive and stupid. Seriously???

amerigirl

Has everyone been tested to come up with that figure? I can tell you for certain they have not. It is still hard to get a test and when my husband had it along with 6 others from his work, the only one who could get a test was the 1 that was sick enough to be hospitalized. There were people turned away from the free testing because they ran out. Kids with special needs will still be going to school, along with English learners. It is the safest option at this time. What is with all the comparing to influenza? When you use that stat, it is a combination of influenza and pneumonia, not just the flu. Most people who have been bed ridden or elderly inactive people end up dying from pneumonia. There is a vaccine for the flu, there isn’t one for coronavirus. Comparing Loudouns population to that of the entire country is ludicrous. It is not just the 106 deaths that matter how about the 325 people that were sick enough to be hospitalized? Or even the people thathad to suffer through weeks of the virus that weren’t sick enough for the hospital? How about the side effects like blood clotting, strokes and heart attacks? You can’t just limit the reasoning to a simple black and white remark about how many lived or died.

Gege

I did not compare Loudoun Co to the country- all the data I listed was for Loudoun Co alone. Those teeny tiny percentage rates are allll Loudoun Co.

Comparing COVID to the flu is absolutely warranted, not only because the last deadly pandemic was influenza, but also *because* there is a vaccine for the flu. EVEN WITH A VACCINE AVAILABLE, more than 4K people in Loudoun Co die each year.

More than 52K people in Loudoun Co (Nearly 13% of the entire county) have been tested for COVID.

https://www.loudoun.gov/5334/COVID-19-Testing-Data

Of those 52K, 325 have been hospitalized. That’s .006% hospitalization rate *of those who are tested*.

Of those who have been tested, 4,758 have had a positive result. That’s 9% OF THOSE TESTED who have had COVID.

As for Special Needs students, unfortunately there is absolutely NO PLAN in place for their education. My BFF, whose son is a Special Needs student, is moving next month primarily because of Loudoun’s lack of education for her son. That was the last straw for her.

No matter how you look at it, the numbers do NOT support the shutdown of our county. Our children will reap the consequences of this ridiculous decision and I, for one, do not think our children’s future is worth the risk.

amerigirl

You are still counting the positive rate to the entire population of Loudoun. I know for a fact that many people who had the virus were never tested. You can’t say that only that portion of the Loudouners have had covid when many of the sick people couldn’t even get a test. Not to mention that not everyone n Loudoun has had a test. I understand that you are using the results from Loudoun.gov but that is of tested people and you were comparing it to the population of Loudoun. “Loudoun Co has a population of 413,538.” Very misleading. No comparing it to the flu is not warrented. The flu is not as contagious, and does not have all the effects that covid has. If you get the flu it will be gone in a certain amount of time, though you could have complications that require treatment afterwards like pneumonia. With covid there is not a time limit, some people will have and test positive for a long time and get complications that you would not see with the flu mostly due to the clotting factor that comes with covid, strokes, heart attacks etc. The flue is seasonal, which is why you get a flu shot every year, covid seems to be a year-round, regardless of the weather illness. You still don’t understand that the count for the flu is a combined count of influenza and pneumonia. The deaths you are speaking of are not just flu.

Sorry to hear about your friend’s son. How did they find a place that is going to offer what they need? Just curious about how far they have to go since it seems most school systems are still up in the air about so much.

Yes sadly children will reap the consequences, just like they are having to do in so many places. This is not normal times. The alternative is much worse if you are one of the kids that takes it home and gives it to a parent and that parent dies or is permanently affected because of it.

Virginia SGP

Your argument about kids taking it home to their parents is not applicable. Families can choose to have their kids take DL. Nobody is disputing that. So why is that an argument about why we should preclude in-person?

There are far fewer effects to COVID for kids. Every medical professional has made that statement including the CDC, WHO, Stanford, etc. This is just a fact. You can argue that you believe schools should close because of danger to adults, but there is no research/data that suggest COVID is as dangerous to kids as the flu.

With respect to adults, if there are sufficient number of teachers (current or newly hired) willing to teach in-person, then there is no basis to preclude in-person teaching. Everybody acknowledges that we will need SpEd teachers who will engage in close contact with those kids. That is most challenging and may require (i) teachers with immunity, (ii) more protective PPE, etc. But assuming SpEd teachers go back and that there are plenty of other teachers (including new hires) willing to teach kids socially distanced in a classroom, then there is no credible reason to no open schools for in-person instruction.

amerigirl

SGP, kids taking it home to their parents is applicable. You might have your kids home but your co-worker may not. The virus is not picky on whose family you are in. There are plenty of kids effected by covid, the just don’t need to be hospitalized or die as often, but they still spread it. The flu may even be more dangerous to kids, but the virus is much more contagious. There could be enough teachers now, but what happens when they get sick. They are still in an enclosed building with shared heating and AC. That was the problem NYC had with having so many apartments, which they didn’t figure out until they were almost positive it is airborne. The older the child gets the worse it is, so even if it doesn’t have much effect on elem kids it sure will by high school.

Virginia SGP

amerigirl, your argument doesn't make sense. Parents/children are CHOOSING in-person learning. You want to deny them that opportunity.

Is your argument is that no student should be allowed to have in-person instruction because even though their family knows it is not a risk, there is a slight chance the kid takes it home to the parent who might potentially spread it elsewhere? If so, then that can ONLY be solved by shutting down daycares, private schools, and all schools. The CDC recommended exactly the opposite.

In fact, most agree that LCPS has the space to mitigate transmission by kids much more easily than daycares. LCPS knows its decision will cause MORE spread via daycares, not less. LCPS is just pleasing its entitled teachers and trying to avoid blame. It is a despicable decision.

FCPS educator

There were no vaccines for the 50s and 60s pandemics - schools did not close - also higher death rates - stop being scared of the dark

amerigirl

Contradiction of terms. Schools didn't close, more people died, Maybe that's why more people died and it wasn't as well contained.

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amerigirl

Or the snowflake republicans that only look at the death rates as being the only data I guess everyone is either dead or alive and there is no sickness in between.

Patriot

Is anyone besides me getting tired of 'amerigirl' constantly commenting, name calling, and "knowing it all"?

mopar19

This is great news. Hopefully loudoun will be able to keep distance learning going on for good. That way we can slowly eliminate all the building of new schools. Remove the trailers from the over crowded schools. Sell the unnecessary supply of school buses. Eliminate all unneeded positions and reign in the spending of school budget. Start thinning the total amount of teachers we employ. Now they can telework from further west we can pay them less as well. No more school supplies they will have to pay For out of pocket. Maybe we can get it closer to 50% of the counties budget or less. More than willing to give every student a new computer a year. Keep a few schools for the really disadvantaged and the ones who will complain it’s racist or what have you. And while were at it start scraping the school zone speed limit signs. Should be able to get some money for those as well.

Voltaire

Mopar19--I totally agree with this statement! [thumbup]

gtrunner

I don’t have kids and support this message.

Master Bedroom

Right on the money Mopar & Gege![thumbup][thumbup]

Loudounlistener

And that will happen on Mars, not Virgina. You are a dreamer.

jrintegrity

Politics and economics aside, I am a former educator and I have Master's Degree in Secondary Education. For many of you who think this is a terrible decision for education and that students will suffer, I suggest you re-think your position. If LCPS does exactly what they did this past spring on short notice, then I agree that students will suffer. But if LCPS actually takes time to implement a truly collaborative online learning environment, then there are studies out there that have proven this model can be as effective or, in some cases, more effective than in person learning.

Online learning gives students more options to learn at their own pace and on their own time, which is actually a benefit to students with different learning styles. For online learning to be effective, teachers must use weekly discussion boards, online chat, re-playable video lessons, online meetings, reflection questions, and group work. Additionally, teachers must set the expectation for how much time each student should spend on a course each week and how the teacher will communicate to students. To do this right, this takes more work for teachers and in-person instruction.

So, for the masses complaining about politics and economics, I recommend that you consider taking up this issue from the perspective of what will LCPS do differently this fall to ensure online learning is not the same debacle it was this past spring? That should be the topic for your school board meeting. Ensure that LCPS research and adopt an effective online learning model. They should be able to present to you a plan for how they will improve online instruction in the fall if they want you to support 100% distance learning.

One last piece of information, you may want to continue to fund schools so they can pay people to do this research, train teachers on how to implement an effective online learning model, and purchase proven technologies that support online classrooms.

LoudounPulse

"... takes time to implement a truly collaborative online learning environment"

There is the problem. You are day dreaming of a good outcome. The reality is that internet access isn't universal or of good quality, so those kids will suffer. Next you have the children who will not have any parents able to look over their shoulder and make sure they are doing their work and learning. There goes another batch of children who don't receive a good education. Lastly you will have water down lessons and children who don't understand them because the quality of the online teaching is rushed and sub-par at best. We aren't talking about a slick online presentation done by a multimillion dollar firm which does this for a living. We are talking about dimwit government workers that have barely adjusted to Chromebooks in the classroom, let alone Online teaching (which their teaching degrees didn't train have as credit options).

Q1/Q2 2020 will be filled with ad-hoc lessons and teaching styles that differ from teach to teacher and the vast majority of students will suffer with a sub-par education. I cannot imagine how you teach a Foreign Language to teens online without in-person interaction. I'm also sure there will be zero dollars and zero training to get teachers ready for Distance Learning, just like there was nothing for Q4 2020 this year.

jrintegrity

I cannot predict a failed online learning environment any more than I can predict that if schools open, no teachers or students will die from covid-19. If given the option to choose from those options, I personally think the school board made the right call to start classes online as opposed to risk community spread and potential deaths.

Regardless, you can at least ask the LCPS school board this question: What will you differently in the fall? Certainly somebody in the business of education for a living can answer that question so that at the very least, your students educational experience in the fall will be better than it was in the spring. There never has been a one-size-fits-all approach to education that works for every student. But there definitely is a way to successfully do online learning. For LCPS, it really shouldn't be that hard of a transition or require millions of dollars. It takes parents and the community members challenging educators to find and adopt a proven online learning model. It takes challenging teachers to think outside of the box so they can provide a positive learning experience for students.

Virginia SGP

This is a lie. Extensive research on kids who switched to online schools demonstrated that kids lost MONTHS of learning. The kids' scores dropped by 16 percentile points in math and 11 percentile points in reading.

Those are facts and research instead of gibberish from a self-interested, greedy teacher who is irrationally fearful and ignorant of the actual risks.

How about this? We give students their MAP tests this spring. If they fall off a cliff, you donate your salary to low-income parents who were destroyed by this decision. If they rise as you seem to suggest, I will contribute the same amount to the charity you choose. Deal? Or was your manifesto all talk?

amerigirl

How extensive could the research be the virus has only been around for so long? Please give your sources.

Virginia SGP

amerigirl, the research compared instruction in-person with virtual instruction. It had controls so that it measured the changes in learning whe a kid switched to virtual from in-person. It also compared that to kids who switched from in-person at public schools to in-person at charter schools to ensure the drop wasn't the effect of simply going to a charter.

The point is that there is evidence on how well experienced online schools perform. And it is not good. But more importantly, let's give our kids the MAP test this spring and measure how disastrous this decision is. You would support MAP testing to find out, right?

amerigirl

SGP I don’t disagree with you on the values of in class vs online at el-hi ages. I would much rather see kids in the classroom but I think that a short delay until there is more containment and maybe even a vaccine would help and that not delaying is going to cause the numbers to drastically increase. If it is better contained the numbers will increase some, that is to be expected but it would be controlled. Testing is not the answer, everyone know they have lost valuable time. But it was necessary for safety. That is why they cancelled the SOL’s. I know the kids wouldn’t like it but I think they should x the school year for next year to give them more classroom time.

Virginia SGP

Are you suggesting they cancel tests so nobody can find out what the consequences were of this disastrous decision? That is typically what teachers say, "trust us these kids learned a lot, just don't test them to find out".

amerigirl

SGP, if you kept up you would know that the SOL testing for fall has already been canceled. I don’t have to suggest anything. But then you wouldn’t be able to twist my words would you? Is this some warped game for you?

Virginia SGP

amerigirl, SOL tests were never scheduled for the fall. They were cancelled in 2020. They have definitely not been cancelled in 2021, nor have LCPS' MAP tests.

amerigirl

SGP, Assistant Superintendent for Instruction Ashley Ellis was saying that they were trying to extend the timeline back in March. That would have moved it to fall but in April Virginia ditches idea of fall SOL testing with spring exams. I had missed that Sorry!

jrintegrity

Actually, I do donate to low-income communities. But that aside, I recommend that you take up teaching and lead the charge back to the classroom during this pandemic. The day that happens will be the day that I agree to your ridiculous deal.

Student test scores may or may not decline this spring, but I can assure that no matter what happens to their MAP test score, it is not going to be the end all, be all for a students success in life. They are not going to turn out to be failures because during the year of a pandemic, MAP scores declined. At some point, we have prioritize the value of a teacher's, student's, or family member's life over that of a standardized test score.

My concern is based on actual facts, not fabricated data. One teacher in Loudoun already died. At least 10 or more teachers and a principal were infected with the virus before schools closed. Somehow you convinced yourself that despite the fact that there is still inadequate testing delays, no vaccine, and a nation where over 140,000 people have died, that somehow the covid will magically skip over LCPS. Instead, you recite unfounded data at the expense of potentially risking students and teachers lives. One thing is clear that medical experts agree upon: opening schools is a risk and at minimum, will require numerous changes to the education system and safeguards to the regular school process in order for there to be even a potential that students and staff are safe. Even with implementing safeguards, there still no guarantee. Ignoring that fact is just plain absurd.

FCPS educator

Over an 150k died during the late 50's pandemic - schools did not close - more harm will be done to these kids than disease will ever do - stop being ignorant and scared of life

amerigirl

From what I understand there is a school that he isn't even allowed to enter, I doubt Loudoun would ever give him a job.

Virginia SGP

By definition, you cannot justify closing schools using the value of a "student's life". Students/parents can choose DL. That is a baseless argument then.

You claim I cite "unfounded" data. This research has been published. When it is used by teachers' union activists, nobody claims it is "unfounded" despite the union activists failing to understand what a percent means. When folks cite research that disproves your point, you just yell "fake" with no basis and no research of your own. Why do you do that? A research study based on antibody tests across 500,000 Geneva residents that is widely cited elsewhere is not "unfounded". Why should anyone believe anything you say after you made those claims?

Why should the death of a 70+ year old teacher who acquired the virus elsewhere affect any decision? Can you explain?

My arguments assumed that 5,000 students and 500 teachers would be infected but would have minimal effects and no deaths. How does the fact that 10 teachers were infected prevent us from opening? Are you saying the goal is zero contractions of COVID? That won't happen even after a vaccine (they are not 100%). What is your tolerable risk for reopening schools? If kids and teachers have a lower tolerable risk, should they be allowed to open schools while allowing others to request virtual instruction?

Virginia SGP

amerigirl, you need to be extremely careful. You are about to get sued for defamation. The principal who retaliated at my kid's school was demoted a few months later and replaced with a new principal. That principal invited me along with a 5th grade math teacher to tutor kids in the school hallway for the entire year. Be very careful with making false, defamatory statements. We know you are senile but you still have a duty to refrain from defamation.

amerigirl

SGP, give me a break you can’t sue for something that I said about “From what I understand”. If you want to try to sue me for what I understand, and was substantiated, feel free. But don’t threaten me. Now you have made a statement about me being senile, should I sue you? That is defamatory. Maybe just stop being such a bully with everyone who doesn’t share your opinions. Since you have informed me that it is not a fact that you are not allowed in a school, I have a new understanding. But that still doesn’t mean that you calling me names or saying unfounded lies about my mental state is okay, hmmm, what shall I do about that? You try and tell me I have a duty to refrain from defamation, well what about you? Do you think you are so much better than everyone else that the rules don’t apply to you?

Virginia SGP

amerigirl, you are mistaken. If I said, "I understand John Doe molested 10 kids in his neighborhood", that is unmistakable defamation. You were right there. You should just avoid making factual (falsely stating/suggesting somebody was either banned or committed some underlying offense) statements that impugn their integrity can trigger a lawsuit. I now you don't understand it, but you will see what happens to others on here that did that very soon.

amerigirl

SGP, So by you saying “We know you are senile” that is unmistakable defamation. And you impugn my integrity Right? I really just wish you would have normal debates with people without being snark with them. I know I have done this and I am trying to stop but it is very hard when people are calling others names and degrading them. I would love to just debate facts with you without all the nonsense and threats. And do you really think it is a good use of your time to go after someone who remarked about you in an opinion piece? Seriously, look back at the comments and see who took the first jab and how it escalated. Is it worth it? Both of you guys ended up going for each other’s throats when it could have been a very civil conversation.

jrintegrity

It's not just one student's or teacher's life that is at risk. This virus spreads undetected for days by asymptomatic people, leading to the potential to infect many others in a school community. Once there is one positive test, there is a high likelihood that there will be others. At Waxpool Elementary, I think up to 4 teachers were diagnosed with the Covid. Add contact tracing to the list of safeguards that a school must implement to successfully open. Where is all the staff going to come from to do contact tracing, temperature checks, significantly reduce class sizes, alternate lunch and recess schedules, adjust class start/end times so that all students do not flood the hallways at the same time, reduce the number of students on bus routes, disinfect desks and doors between classes, make sure students wash their hands, etc? Not to mention, wearing masks really should be mandated. Have you really thought about the additional staff and resources needed to make this happen?

Many posters on this chat are already complaining about greedy teachers. As a profession, teachers are grossly undervalued in their importance to society and grossly underpaid. Many parents are realizing this during the pandemic since your students are having to stay home. You are willing to do anything and everything to get them back in school with teachers, including ignore the risks of community spread and death. It's better to try to significantly improve online school in the fall for students and open schools once there is a vaccine capable of providing some protection.

Virginia SGP

jrintegrity, several of these are fair questions.

1. The R0 factor is used to determine how easily a disease spreads. Some diseases spread very fast like the measles which averages ~20 additional infections per patient. The COVID is not hard to get but it is nowhere near as contagious as you make it out. It is projected to have an R0 of between 1 and 3.5. That's over the life of the illness in a patient. So they don't spread it everywhere. In fact, the recent released out of Korea suggested that there was only a 2.9% chance of close, non-household contacts catching it PRIOR to the lockdown. So if kids are generally staying 6 ft apart, it will be rare that they spread it in school.

2. As for contact tracing, that is done by the Loudoun County health department, not by LCPS.

3. As for extra sanitary precautions, those are good extra steps but are not expected to be the primary transmission source. Wiping down rooms once after school should be sufficient especially if kids remain in the same classroom.

4. There are plenty of staff. In the preferred 5-day/week instruction model, 19-20 students can fit in each classroom. That is almost the same ratio as the current 22-24 students/classroom. And given many kids will be on DL, there are enough teachers to cover both. The teachers/classroom ratio is 1.6 for elementary and about 1.4 for MS and HS. We already have extra teachers.

Nobody is asking teachers or staff to take any undue risks. However, teachers don't own a job. If a 65-year-old (very few given most teachers can retire at the ripe ol age of 52) teacher believes she cannot be replaced but does not want to go into the school, he/she has two options. They can put in a request for the new DL positions or they can find a job that does not need to have any interaction with people. All types of workers are making the same decision. But we have the

- lowest vacancy rate in the state (flooded with willing teachers)

- one of the highest retention rates in the state (retirements/regignations dropped 34% this past year despite COVID)

- 5000 applicants each year for about 700 jobs

This data shows teachers are not underpaid. When there is an excess of supply for a given compensation/conditions package, they are considered overpaid by any economic model. You have no data whatsoever that LCPS cannot fill these classes with teachers. Willing teachers. It's almost like the teachers went on strike and you all are enraged that replacement teachers are eager to get those jobs. Why would you be opposed to willing teachers and willing students conducting in-person instruction?

jrintegrity

I am married to a teacher who has high risk factors and I do not want her to go anywhere near a classroom until there is a vaccine. Who am I to say that other teachers should be forced to put themselves at risk?

Data shows that up to 24% of all teachers have certain factors that make them high risk for complications with covid. That does not mean 24% of teachers who get infected will die from covid, but it does give justification for a quarter of the teacher workforce to have a legitimate reason not to return to in-person learning in the fall. Add on to that the number of teachers caring for potentially high risk children or family members, then the ample supply of teachers you mentioned may be at risk.

As for staffing turnover, LCPS cannot fire a teacher for having a legitimate health or family related concern. Nor can LCPS force those teachers to return. Does it make sense for the district to hire a thousands or so willing teachers for a problem that in all likelihood will be temporary. What are they going to do, fire all the temp teachers when there is a vaccine and all the regular Loudoun staff that was on medical or family leave is ready to return to work? I don't think that is the answer.

So, if there is enough willing staff members currently employed by LCPS open to returning to school and if the district can provide all the required safety measures and if the district has some legal protection so they they are not sued if and when something covid related happens, then go for it. I will not try to stop them.

Virginia SGP

jrintegrity, sovereign immunity prevents them from being sued if something happens. So there is no worry for that.

All LCPS need to do is create a new job function and accept applications/transfers. Nobody wants teachers at risk to take unnecessary chances. But they may need to find a new job. If the spots for DL teachers become full, then LCPS would proceed to furlough teachers that are not needed.

You are essentially saying that the current teachers' interests in not working in-person and yet retaining their job/salary/pay outweigh risks to the kids. If a disease that only affected folks older than 40 years old came aroung, are you suggesting that despite having enough teachers/replacements, we would have to cancel in-person school?

The reason parents are disgusted with teachers is that you all act like schools exist to employ your spouses (teachers). They are not. NFL teams are not created to employ QB xyz. Businesses are not run to keep the exact same employees. When automation comes around, nearly all the employees get switched out as new skills are needed. Hopefully, there are sufficient DL students/positions to match. But teachers' claims that nobody is safe is simply not true and they know it. Those claims are made for one reason only: to protect their jobs to the detriment of students.. It reflects on the integrity and morality of teachers when they are unable to say "it is unfortunate for me, but kids have low risk and benefit greatly from in-person school. Please proceed with bringing them back."

Pinkerton

SGP, you've shared data of studies that compare online learning to that of public schools and charter schools, but that's not necessarily a valid or relevant comparison to the hybrid option offered by LCPS.

Keep in mind that the hybrid model was far from a typical public/charter school setting. At the middle and high school level in particular, students would have only had each individual class just once per week(less than 50% of 'normal'). In that class, they would be restricted from doing any group work, have no hands-on activities, and class discussions (among less than 25% of a normal class size) would be very limited, no socializing, etc.

Imagine at the elementary level having a class sitting 6ft apart, not sharing, not getting together for stories, not moving about the classroom, and not using manipulatives.

There are no studies that show how that compares. Let me ask this, would you be willing to donate your salary if the hybrid model had MAP scores that dropped?

Virginia SGP

My position is 100% 5-day, in-person learning and an option for 100% DL. The research supports that.

The "hybrid" is merely a bridge to demonstrate that the irrational fears of in-person instruction are just that - irrational. Once no outbreaks occurred, LCPS would be challenged to not allow 5-day. One main reason they did not want to offer hybrid is that it eviscerates their position that 5-day is too "dangerous".

Loudounlistener

And there are studies that say the opposite. Spin it how you want. "if LCSP actually takes the time to implement, blah blah. Where's the incentive to do that? You cannot legislate a good teaching program. You also can't hope for a miraculous reorganization of the entire curriculum and teaching style in 3 months. It's impossible. You have teachers who have educated, trained and experienced teaching live for 20-30 years, you expect they will just magically transform into Google engineers and teach my 8 year old through the computer from the comfort of their living rooms?

jrintegrity

It doesn't require a Google engineering degree to teach online. Teachers will not have to develop the software, they have to learn to use software that has already been created. This software will allow them to create and upload a video lesson instead of getting up in front of classroom to speak to a classroom full of students. They will be able to easily create and post a meaningful question to a discussion board instead of create in class assignments. Teachers have to set the expectation for how much time students need to spend on their course each week and communicate to students using a technological platform. These technologies already exist. Many large school districts already have an online learning tools for students. Education is about using tools that have already been created, not re-creating the wheel.

As for the incentive, what incentive do teachers have at the start of any school year to help students learn? I can assure you that it is not pay. Teachers actually care about their students and want them to succeed. They care enough to want to keep students and other teacher safe during this pandemic. The goal is 0 student or teacher deaths. Opening up schools is a huge risk considering one LCPS teachers already died in the spring.

FCPS educator

Students are not at risk - do research - kids need to be in school

amerigirl

FCPS, that is not true and gives parents a false sense of security. Please don’t tell that to the parents of the over 200 kids that have died from it., or the almost 500 that have been hospitalized. That is research, there is a risk and parents should be aware of it. Though they don't become sick as often as adults, children who have congenital heart disease, genetic conditions or conditions affecting the nervous system, certain underlying conditions, such as type 2 diabetes, or metabolism conditions are also at higher risk of serious illness with COVID-19. Not all kids are healthy if you are a teacher go look to see how many inhalers each school has. After they recover, they can also get Multisystem inflammatory syndrome. That can be fatal. Children especially those over 10 still spread the virus, they still take it into their homes. If you had done the research you would have known this.

FCPS educator

On line learning does not work for younger children - also school is more than just getting right and wrong answers it teaches kids how to get along with each other - human contact something online learning will never do

amerigirl

Nobody would prefer online learning in normal times, I think we can both agree on that. But human contact is what is spreading the virus. The best we can hope for is to get the virus controlled and make the world safer for everyone.

applicant45554

Virginia SGP - please organize a protest. I’ll be there

BigDaddyVA

Me too ... to point and laugh.

applicant45554

Well played BigDaddyVA. You’re right. What’s the point.

amerigirl

Right behind ya

Loudounlistener

I'll be there as well.

Qwertyuiop

He’s all talk, no action. Bet.

Loudounlistener

If anyone has the time to organize a parent protest( I do not) begin here. One of f the best slogans I've heard yet is a sign by a Loudoun teen saying "I can go to the mall but not to school?!"

https://interwapp14.loudoun.gov/repi/eventRequest.aspx

applicant45554

Read Mr. Williams presentation. The only people getting in person schooling and childcare is the teaches (4 days a week) those are the only people who have their childcare problem solved. Unbelievable.

Loudounlistener

Just WOW

WILSC212

I cannot wait to see OTHER school systems SUCCESSFULLY reopen schools and put Loudoun to shame! Distance learning was an absolute nightmare and they need to take into consideration the major affect this is having on socialization. Our children are struggling emotionally as well as academically. I'd like to see a huge effort in regards to their social well being and not to slack on the extra-curriculars either. They need art, music, sports, etc. All I've heard about is "our plans" but I have yet to actually see ANY plans. Show us some details! Give us some hope!

hardestworkingamerican

You should take better care of your kids if they are struggling so badly. Sad!

beaglebrigade

What a flippant comment to make. Many kids are already struggling with isolation and depression and it’s only going to get worse for them this fall/winter. Not to mention children who are already living in abusive households.

hardestworkingamerican

Stop abusing your kids this isnt difficult. Next!

amerigirl

Don't most of them have cell phones and computers and can at least stay in contact with their friends? I have been doing some on line tutoring and they tell me about their friends all the time.

LCPS teacher

@Wilsc212 - It's not 'major AFFECT.' It's 'major EFFECT.' Though affect can be used as a noun, it's not appropriate in this case. Affect typically shows action (a->a) and effect is typically used as a noun.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/affect

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/effect

And what you saw in the spring was not true distance learning.

beaglebrigade

I hope the spring wasn’t true distance learning, but please tell us how the fall will be different. I have yet to hear any specifics from the Superintendent or the school board.

Lawman

Won’t be any school systems in this area. They like our people know how to listen to the smart people and the dunces.

amerigirl

You will have a long wait. No one wants distance learning but it is the best option. The world is struggling, it is a pandemic. They know that kids 10 years and up can transmit the virus as easily as adults, the S.Korean study. I suggest you be there for your kids emotional problems and stand up for their safety too.

Loudounlistener

young naive amerigirl. 50% of teachers want distance learning, where do you get your ideas? Studies show anyone can transmit the virus, but kids have statistically much less severe symptoms than adults. Read...

FCPS educator

Then why is S Korea going back to school if it is so bad smart girl - also guess you have no kids

amerigirl

Wow, you have a problem when you start with the attacks because I referred to a study. Who said they were going back to school, they did return in the spring and shut hundreds of them down again? Their school year is very different than ours. It runs March to July and September to February. Knowing someone that is interested in what they are doing because he taught there (did you know there are no ovens in Korea?) he thought they had not decided n what to do for the second half of their year (Sept. – Feb) as yet.

Yes, I have 2 kids who are adults. They both went to Loudoun schools (except one went to TJ) through 12th. I spent a huge chunk of time in schools volunteering and tutoring. I know how important in class learning is but is it worth the risk? Could waiting a few months before in person learning save lives? I worked with special ed kids too and it would be pretty close to impossible to get them to understand they can’t get near their friends and you would be explaining this to each child often throughout the day. That would require more asst.’s and that would be more people exposed.

Countyrez

Anyone care to share why November, other than being an arbitrary date? There is no information, plan, milestones, or other measurable achievement defined? Could it be be design? Shortly after you start in November Thanksgiving break would begin, return for two weeks in December, and thus ends the Fall Semester. Why bother starting at all? Or did I just expose the game? That is the back channel buzz teachers are talking about. Williams and the School Board made it November on purpose for that reason, knowing full well there will NEVER be a phase in approach for Fall 2020. Students and senior citizens, the largest group of casualties of the virus in Loudoun County.

hardestworkingamerican

November?

Virginia SGP

Parents need to remember this:

1. When voting in 2023 for the SB

2. When voting in 2023 for the BOS that allowed the profligate spending by the SB (paying employees to sit on their hands)

3. When PTAs ask to raise funds or do favors for teachers that are hurting kids

4. When the parent/student surveys come out in the spring

5. If/when you are sitting on a jury with LCPS or a teacher as the defendant

Karma won't be kind to these selfish teachers.

DavisB

So many comments here and on Facebook today. Did you get any work done?

yellowbird

OK sure - we'll come back and remember this post 3 years from now. So many comments/so little time. Try pulling all your thoughts into one - instead of spread all over 100x. Might get your point across better.

Concerned1

Teachers aren’t the ones making this decision. Push your bad karma on those who have decision making power, not the peons following policy.

Lawman

Brian just runs his mouth or keyboard. He’s generally wrong and comes up with dubious statistics. Brian don’t mind gambling with other people’s lives.

Virginia SGP

Lawman, I see a typical post. No data, no research and no logic. Didn't even try to refute anything I said other than saying "he's wrong".

You know, societies that think like this were destined to remain in the Stone Age ... forever. And others advanced and conquered the world with a few hundred soliders and technology. Aren't you glad you get to ride the coattails of those who understand data, logic and research?

amerigirl

SGP the same old line "No data, no research and no logic" but you won't look at all the research out there and you are the one with no logic, pretending like the virus only has 2 effects, life or death. The amount of people who get very sick and don't die is higher than the death rate but those people don't count.

Virginia SGP

amerigirl, why don't you find some actual research instead of spouting off opinions. Research with actual numbers, ok?

Simple question. If LCPS could put kids back in school and deliver a high quality education to all students if they had to replace all teachers, would that be justified to replace the teachers? If not, on what basis are you denying kids a good education?

AndrewHoya

I've gone back and forth on this since the Spring. Originally we signed our kids up for the hybrid option, but switched to the distance learning option at the last moment. Key to our decision 1) Lack of confidence in safety, and 2) we weren't convinced that the hybrid model was significantly better than the distance learning model. Based on the numbers our school shared, only about 40% of students were selecting the hybrid model. So in a class of 24, only about 9-10 of the kids would have selected hybrid. Since they'd only have been in school 2 days/week, then those ~10 kids would have been divided up in at least 2 groups and at most you would have had like 4 other kids in your class when you went in on any given day. The other 20 would have always been online. A big part of the reason I had wanted to send them back was for socializing, but they just weren't going to get that under a hybrid model with 4 other socially distanced kids. So without a real socialization aspect, it seemed kind of ridiculous to expose our kids, ourselves, our family, their teachers, etc to higher risk of infection, as well as all the hassle of getting them off to school, for what would probably not be a very good school experience. I'm not awfully optimistic that distance learning will be a great experience either (it wasn't in the Spring), but I don't see it being significantly inferior to what they'd get in the classroom under these circumstances, and certainly much safer and something that will hopefully allow us to all return to normal quicker than if we rush things. I'm ok with them choosing 100% distance learning for the start of the year,

Virginia SGP

You misunderstood the class assignment. Hybrid teachers will be assigned 20 kids split into 2 groups of 10. DL teachers will be assigned 20-24 students. A hybrid student would have 8-9 other kids in their classrooms each day.

Qwertyuiop

“You misunderstood the assignment”

Always the jerk, SGP. You’d never have the guts to say any of this in-person.

Virginia SGP

Always the senstive, ignorant fool. Have you not attended a SB meeting? Is anything you say ever true?

Qwertyuiop

Meh.... you say lots of thing from safety the podium and you’re emboldened I’m the internet (definitely a pot-meet-mettle moment but at least I’ll admit it).

Virginia SGP

Are you suggesting you want to have a discussion in person? Can you name a place?

springerdad

In the end this is the right call. Instead of having to start with 2 days a week in school and then move everyone to full time DL this allows the teachers and parents over a month get prepared.

In November they can re-evaluate what direction the virus has taken.

Based on the direction the virus is taking it won't be long until we are moving back to phase 1.

Loudounlistener

AM/PM schedule would have been the smart thing to do. with 50% kids due to the option for 100% it would have worked. Stupid LCPS board.

yeet

All I need to say: if you're so worried about your students being in school, how about you go in and teach the students at a teacher's salary with no hazard pay? How about you deal with the possibility of little to no health precautions being taking until you have to protest? Teachers WANT to be in school, but they can't at the moment because it's not a health option. Don't think that people are doing this to get the 'easy way out'. This is absolutely difficult for teachers, but it's necessary to keep everyone safe. Once the vaccine is out, schools can reopen more. Until then, everyone needs to be kept safe. Actually do your research and, I don't know, talk with some teachers before complaining.

springerdad

They School board has had 5 months to come up with a plan. Blame that on the leadership.

How about you deal with the possibility of little to no health precautions being taking until you have to protest?

Mike Kay

Springer: Yeah, 5 months to plan based on ever changing information which has gone from bad to worse. Just more proof why adult supervision is required to keep keyboard rebels from messing things up for everyone.

springerdad

Mike Kay - You do understand that is what disaster planning is all about. I have already said they made the right decision based on the information available to me.

amerigirl

It's not like they had a whole lot of spare time while they were busy trying to figure how to completely revamp the entire system, making sure that every student had the ability to get an education, and not go hungry because their food is dependent on the school system.

LoudounClear

School board may end up being wrong on this call but at least the error will have been made on the side of prudent caution. Those shrill voices who are willing to roll the dice with your children should, as you say, step up and volunteer to work in the schools to help make this safer for everyone involved.

Mike Kay

LoudounClear: It's right based on the information on hand today. Since decisions aren't made with the benefit of knowing the outcome, that's all that matters.

Virginia SGP

yeet, so how exactly do you explain:

1. European schools have not had significant outbreaks even though the Dutch require neither masks or distancing

2. Private schools and daycares with in-person have not seen any significant outbreaks

If private schools are able to complete the year without casualties, would you agree that LCPS either (a) made a mistake or (b) is unable to compete with private schools and should give out vouchers?

Mike Kay

VA SGP: Compare class sizes in public vs private schools. Get back to us.

Virginia SGP

15:1 in LCPS. 16:1 in private schools.

Next excuse?

SueMe

Many high school classes have 25-30 kids jammed into a small room.

Virginia SGP

Official teacher/student ratio from the WABE guide: 15:1.

Facts. Focus on facts.

SueMe

Many high school classes have 25-30 kids jammed into a small room. Facts. But thanks so much for trying to contribute. Have a blessed day

Qwertyuiop

SGPs fake student-to-teacher ratio again.

Qwertyuiop

Seriously thought, page 28 of the 2020 WABE Guide. SGP is giving false information.

Virginia SGP

Page 29 of the WABE guide, teacher/student ratio runs from 13.6 - 19.9.

According to the Public School Review, the ratio is 12:1 -> https://www.publicschoolreview.com/loudoun-county-high-school-profile.

According to Niche, the ratio is 14:1 -> https://www.niche.com/k12/d/loudoun-county-public-schools-va/

Never met a fact you all can't lie about, have you?

Qwertyuiop

Teachers don’t teach on a “per-scale position” ratio (which is the number you love quoting) but let’s ignore that because it’s a fact.

Virginia SGP

The question is not how many classrooms there are. The question is not how many "facilitators" there are. The question is what is the ratio of teachers to students.

If LCPS chooses to put half of their teachers in useless roles (e.g. facilitator, assistant-sometimes-I'll-think-about-working), then they are inefficient. If all teachers are placed in the classroom, LCPS has a student/teacher ratio of between 12-15 to 1. Those are indisputable facts. No amount of complaining that this teacher or that teacher shold be counted can change the fact that LCPS has 12-15 students for each of its TEACHERS. That is incredibly low.

doverboy

Take off the mask. Have you done ANYTHING to prepare for Distance Learning other than to call people racists if they don't support your ideas? Are you the home that all neighborhood kids will come to in the Fall so their parents can go to work or are you finding out where to send your own children? Instead of beating the drum against white supremacy and white privilege, get out there and start a community based safe place for the kids to learn under Distance Learning and stop being a keyboard warrior

DavisB

wait, are you actually suggesting that anyone should stop beating the drum against white supremacy? I imagine that you meant to write that the other way around.

Virginia SGP

You should KEEP beating the drum against the white supremacy that is allowing white, affluent teachers to sentence minority kids (that's most of LCPS) to home confinement and subpar education. This is the most racist thing I have ever seen and LCPS is championing systemic racism. Unbelievable.

doverboy

No, my point is that SGP should get involved with finding a solution through networking to ensure that his kids, or the neighbor's kids, have a place to go until schools open up and stop calling people he doesn't know racist, privileged, or supremacy. Start working together, his divisiveness gets us no where

amerigirl

Are you not capable of multitasking?

yeet

Those are incredibly different situations than a large school system. If private schools are able to function, sure, they made a mistake. But that "mistake" would be made by being safer. As someone who has been in multiple different classrooms even in this past year, class size is nothing like you've perceived it. Average does not mean actually, especially with the bigger or overcrowded schools.

If you're so worried about being in school, step up and teach. See just how difficult it is to work on a teachers salary with little to no assistance. If you actually tried working in a classroom setting, you'd have a vastly different opinion on the situation.

Also, might I add, there is no school board without school, and no school without teachers. So maybe, the school board should listen to the sole reason they have their positions. All of this absolutely sucks, but you need to have at least an ounce of compassion towards teachers. They want to be in classrooms, but the set-up that LCPS has just makes any in-person plan incredibly difficult at the moment. Take your "statistics" and get some more real life examples from working with students, then get back to me.

Virginia SGP

You appear confused.

The purpose of schools is Loudoun are the students who reside in Loudoun. We would never swap them out with some other group of students.

In order to run the schools, we need teachers who are effective and willing to do the work. If the current group of teachers are selfish and unwilling, we simply replace them. Schools continue on just fine serving the clients - Loudoun students. Thus, there is no reason ever to listen to employees who don't want to do the job they were hired to do. That is, unless we cannot get others to replace them. But we know that 5000 applicants are begging to get those jobs. Retirements/resignations fell off the cliff by 34%. So there is no concern whatsoever about replacing employees who no longer with to teach our students.

The SB is another question. Many appear to not care at all about students but to pander to political groups or teachers' unions.

I am confident that private schools will be just fine. How long do we need to see their success before we acknowledge LCPS is a dumpster fire and must return to in-person learning? What is the over/under on MAP conditional student growth with this DL model? I'm happy to make bets. What say you, yeet?

yeet

VA SGP, I'm afraid you're the one who appears confused.

If you knew even a fraction about how the teachers in this school system worked, you would know that none of them are "selfish and unwilling". It is UNSAFE for teachers right now, otherwise they would be fine being in the classrooms. Many companies are having their employees work from home because it's safer, and the employees can work better knowing they aren't at risk of catching COVID-19. It's the same with teachers. Schools are for learning. And guess what? The school system hires hundreds of qualified employees each year, and will continue to because our county is growing. Many teachers are incredibly passionate about their jobs, but want to keep their families safe just like everyone else does.

If I'm being honest, the school board's decisions can sometimes be overly political. But at this point, they made a good decision. The leadership of any workplace, whether it be a company or a school system, have to make decisions that benefit the employees. Just because the school board has made some bad, politically-charged decisions does not make every decision they've made bad. Also, there are no teacher's unions in Loudoun County. You may think that LEA is one, but it's just an organization. For someone who is obsessed with research, I'd think you'd know that Virginia is a right-to-work state. Look into that before making an outrageous claim next time.

If private schools a successful: great! Good for them. They don't have over 80,000 students to worry about, with many teachers on top of that. This distance learning model may not be perfect, but it's absolutely necessary. It could have any sort of effect on students, but guess what? We're still in the middle of a pandemic. This is affecting everyone. Many groups are creating ways to allow student interaction while following the correct protocols.

If you actually think critically about this situation and consider the position that many are being put in, you would know that this is necessary. No decision can be 100% right, but the decision for DL is the least risky path for the school system to take. I'd much prefer online instructions to the school system distributing death waivers in the back-to-school packets.

VA SGP, take a moment to fully research what you're trying to say, and actually view this situation objectively. If you look at the facts, you'll know that average numbers are nowhere near the true amount of students, that the majority of teachers do significantly more work than you assume they do, and that we're still in the middle of a pandemic.

We're allowed to have differing opinions, but, might I ask, can you at least look at the school system without an incredibly skewed bias, VA SGP?

yeet

I won't say any more as it's apparent we have differing opinions on the matter. Yeet out

Virginia SGP

yeet, nothing you stated below changes any basis for a decision.

1. Private schools have fewer kids overall. Yes, but that's like saying comparing private school X with LCPS school Y, X can host kids but Y cannot. There is no reason that LCPS cannot host kids in school.

2. You say "average" numbers don't really tell the story. What does that mean? Do you want to make decision on emotional anecdotes? If you don't use point estimates based on age and underlying factors, what do you use? Using an "average" fatality rate when the overall is skewed by those 70+ or 80+ makes no sense. The study I used actually had a very high fatality estimate overall at 0.68%. It just happens that unlike the Spanish flu (a true pandemic), which killed a lot of young people, COVID almost never kills young people including those up to 50. And if you are healthy without underlying conidtions, your chances go down even more by a factor of 12.

You cannot answer 3 simple questions to justify your position. The fact that you cannot answer the questions tells us you are making an emotional decision not based on facts and apologizing for irrationally fearful teachers.

1. What is the quantifiable risk for a student/teacher prior to COVID from diseases (e.g. flu in Feb 2020)?

2. What is the quantifiable risk now for in-person learning?

3. What is the quantifiable risk that is accepting for sending kids back to school?

amerigirl

SGP, again with made up facts? What about Gymnasium Rehavia, a middle and high school in Jerusalem, where 153 students and 25 staff were infected in late May and early June. Another Israeli outbreak was in an elementary school in Jaffa, with 33 students and five staff members affected. An outbreak at a New Zealand high school before that country’s shutdown infected 96 people, including students, teachers, staff, and parents. an elementary school classroom in Trois-Rivières, Canada, had nine of 11 students infected after one contracted the virus in the community. You keep saying that young people can’t get it but they have had to close daycares because of spreads. In Texas, where overall cases have skyrocketed, at least 894 preschool staff and 441 children across 883 facilities have tested positive, according to news reports. That’s from 210 total cases just a few weeks ago. You are cherry picking where you get your stats and which ones you want to use.

Loudoun4Trump

How many employees will lose their job with this brilliant move? I would imagine counselors, bus drivers, school saftey officers, nurses, teacher assistants can all be let go.....glad I will have the opportunity to pay large taxes and educate my own kids...taxation without education is a scam.....can we get a discount on property taxes?

Virginia SGP

The SB decided to pay its employees who have nothing to do with your tax dollars. They even created a deceptive name for this welfare: "income continuation".

doverboy

If you were an employee faced with the loss of income over something that you have no control of, you would be thanking the LCPS for looking out for you. I was out of work for 6 weeks because of Covid, I found employment and I thank my stars every day. Get off your soapbox and get in front of this divisive situation we are all faced with

SueMe

Paying bus drivers and other staff ensures they are available when we return to the schools. It would take too long to replace everyone we loose to open school when we want.

Virginia SGP

The great part about the comments of SueMe, Qwerty and LittleDadddy is that taxpayers and parents get to see how entitled teachers are.

"Give them raises" when 10Ks are out of work or getting no raises while teachers need not go to work and can even teach their own kids outside of the 3 hrs of required teaching.

Pay employees to do nothing. It's not just bus drivers. What are PE teachers doing? What are nurses doing? There are many positions that have nothing to do. But welfare ("income continuation") is your socialist mantra. They would have something to do if we took the reasonable approach of returning to school like every other country in the world.

Qwertyuiop

I like that part where SGP conflates supporting teachers and being teachers.

amerigirl

If you were a parent and LCPS forced your kids back to school and they come home and infected your entire family and you lost family members would be thanking the LCPS for looking out for you?Get off your dopebox

Virginia SGP

amerigirl, who is forcing anybody to do anything? Yes, there are truancy laws. There are no such laws forcing people to work. that was abolished with the Thirteenth Amendment. Teachers are free to seek employment wherever there heart's content.

amerigirl

SGP, you have a lot of nerve talking about paying people to work and they are doing nothing, aren't you "working" right now?

Qwertyuiop

I’m glad my tax dollars were spent on staff. I hope teachers get their raise, too. They deserve it just for having to listen to you.

BigDaddyVA

What a petty and miserly person you are. It is a shame you will pass on these twisted values to your children.

Fiscalconservative

It is not miserly it is prudent, would you pay someone to paint your house only to have three quarters of it done? I am sure you don;t pay for groceries only come home with some of the items you paid for. The fact is if school will be virtual then they can lay off the bus drivers, cafeteria workers, school nurse and some of the custodial staff and return the money to the taxpayer. No one wants to pay something for nothing, I am sure you don't either.

BigDaddyVA

Fiscalconservative, I paid my cleaners for three months NOT to come. Because it was the right thing to do and because it’s good for the economy. You ARE miserly, you are focused on the wrong things and you sound like you are not a good person.

Voltaire

BigDaddyVA--I agree with Fiscalconservative. It is called proper financial management and it is indeed prudent in these economic conditions. If the School System is going to be virtual then yes, it makes financial sense to eliminate unnecessary labor and overhead costs.

BigDaddyVA

No, Voltaire. This is an emergency and a global pandemic. Take care of business, keep people employed, keep them spending. This preoccupation with “fiscal prudence” in times like these is like being worried that the sink is clogged while the Titantic is sinking. So what you need to do and figure it out later. All of our taxes will need to be increased down the road, with the biggest burden falling on the highest income and most wealthy who can afford it. But that comes later. This is now. Got to get through the now to get to the later.

Voltaire

BigDaddyVA—No BigDaddyVA. What you are proposing is economic nonsense. You are trying to use a pandemic to justify rampant out of control spending for a public school system. That is wrong. You talk about taking care of business. That is the responsibility of the PPP and other supplemental programs being handled at the Federal level. Do you see major corporations taking your “prescribed approach”? No, because it does NOT make financial sense to keep assets and personnel on a company’s balance sheet if they are excess and are cost prohibitive. No, in times like this, you eliminate all excess costs off your balance sheet. That is how you “get through this”. For the school system and the county government, that means looking at making your operations more efficient and laying off personnel that are considered excessive and get rid of physical assets that are not needed. The economy is headed for a recession and you want them to spend money? What type of “economics view” is that? That is not going to help stave off the recession or keep businesses from closing. Further, by bailing out industries who should go BANKRUPT, such as airlines, you are allowing them to continue to waste tax dollars and they are still going to eradicate tens of thousands of jobs. Great plan! Not. Keep spending out of control and Wall Street will TEACH you the consequences of that approach. You like that AAA credit rating? It will get downgraded and you will not be able to borrow money to fund the operations of county without higher interest costs. Better yet, maybe the “bond vigilantes” will teach you a thing by jacking up interest costs on county obligation bonds. But hey, its only money, right?

amerigirl

If you paid someone to paint your house and he fell off a ladder and broke his arm. would you wait until he could work again to have the job finished? You are not paying for nothing; your kids will still learn and they can try to get rid of the virus instead of spreading it at the same time. Look at what is happening to states that opened too early. You should not be saying; if they can then so can we, you should be learning from what they did wrong.

Virginia SGP

Don't you just love how the elderly amerigirl recommends borrowing money that future generations will have to pay back (the kids who are getting substandard educations) knowing that amerigirl will enjoy the fruits of the profligate spending with no responsibility whatsoever. She is part of the greediest generation of all time (the Boomers).

Voltaire

AG—Using your scenario, I would hope that the homeowner would contract with another painter to complete the work. If the school system is going to be using virtual learning, then there will be excess costs (labor, assets, and associated overhead) within the school system. As I have said, major corporations, during challenging economic times, do not keep those costs on the company’s balance sheets. They eliminate those costs and use the savings to solidify their balance sheet and keep operations running. The public sector should be no different.

amerigirl

Volt, if you would just contract another painter then you must have money to burn. You always need to put 50% down. So, do you wait or just put another 50% down and pay more? The inflex of cash to schools can not really be compared to the money a public company makes and pays taxes on. There is a budget schools use that is determined yearly and no tax write off.

amerigirl

Poor SGP, always have to get in the nasty barb, your life must not be very fulfilling. I bet I’m not much older than you so I guess you are the elderly Brian Virginia SGP, Personally I think I may be older and wiser than you. You act like the kids will be getting a substandard education for eternity. You have no room to talk about greed, you assume that I am when I am not. I have probably done 10 times the volunteer work in schools that you have. But if you need to build up that frail ego go ahead a blast an entire generation. Feel better? Very sad that that is what you have stooped to. You are so ignorant of anything I have done in my life but you want to say I am greedy so you can feel good about yourself. So, lie if it helps that frail ego. Do you have something against elderly people? BTW, I don’t fit that category yet. So, what did you do with the stimulus money you got from the govt? Were you greedy and kept it all for yourself? I donated mine to people that are suffering from the virus, and have continue to donate. My guess is that when it comes to greed you beat me by a mile.

Voltaire

AG—I will ignore the sarcastic first assumption. However, it is conceivable, under this scenario, that the homeowner could also do the paint job himself/herself too. The homeowner also can demand a refund of money from the painter or the painter’s company that was put down as part of the contract since the contract was not completed per the contract’s terms. Actually, yes, public finance can be compared to private sector finance. I understand that the public school system has a yearly budget. I also know that, like the private sector, the public sector’s balance sheet includes labor, physical assets, overhead, and other input costs. If there is a shortage in the county’s budget, then the school system, like a private enterprise, would be required to eliminate excess costs, including labor (staff) and physical assets, in order to preserve capital for operations. It has nothing to do with taxes. It has to do with basic public administration which is comparable to business management in the private sector.

Voltaire

BigDaddyVA--Like to make judgmental assumptions about people do we? Who gave you the "moral authority" to judge a person's character? Nobody. Let's knock off the holier than thou attitude. You have no right to judge a person's character.

amerigirl

really? he is handing it back to someone who attacked him (SGP) with a real superior and holier than thou attitude, and you want to judge him?

Voltaire

AG—your statement is not correct. In his initial comment, Big DaddyVA stated the following to Virginia SGP: “What a petty and miserly person you are. It is a shame you will pass on these twisted values to your children.” In a subsequent posting to Fiscalconservative, BigDaddyVA stated the following: “…You ARE miserly, you are focused on the wrong things and you sound like you are not a good person.” A review of the postings from Fiscalconservative and Virginia SGP show that they were presenting a differing viewpoint using a declarative statement. Those two comments from BigDaddyVA ARE very much judgments on an individual’s character. Who has the right to tell someone that “….you sound like you are not a good person?” No, my statement was not a judgment but an objective assessment of the facts that are presented. My comment is/was warranted.

Mike Kay

Loudoun4Trump: Cry me a river. We've been paying for schools in Loudoun for 26 years without a single student. Stop whining like a little snowflake.

SueMe

You pay for public education because no one wants uneducated people in our society.

DavisB

Mike - did you get educated? Who do you think paid for your education and your parent's education and your family doctor's education and your and your plumber's education? The public paid for all this.

Voltaire

Mike Kay--Do you want a medal or a gold star for your 26 years of paying for public schools? I am sure that the County of Loudoun appreciates your donation. Get off the holier than thou attitude. People are entitled to have differing opinions on this subject as this is America.

amerigirl

Sueme, Davis, and Volt I don't think Mike is complaining about paying for others education. He is complaining about Loudoun4Trump complaining about his taxes.

Voltaire

DavisB--No, you cannot make that blanket statement. Not everyone's education was paid for by the public through taxation. People do go to private and religious schools and pay for that education themselves. My dad's family paid for him, his brother and sister to go to Catholic School. The general public did NOT help them at all.

amerigirl

How many of them do you really think want to be out there interacting with people during a pandemic? I bet you aren't educating your kids you are sitting them in front of that nice chromebook the county gave you and letting the teachers do what they do best. Counselors are still working remotely. Some bus drivers will be used for the set of kids that have to go to class. And if you think there isn't a demand for nurses right now you are sadly mistaken.

Loudounlistener

The county gave chromebooks so teachers don't have to teach...as much...no one is going to class...

amerigirl

OMG that is what the students learn on. DUH!

David Dickinson

The Democrat School Board knew all along they were going to force 100% distance learning. Parents previously had until July 15th to choose in-person or remote. The School Board was hoping parents decisively chose remote learning so they could say it was the "will of the people." When the results came back 50/50, the Board then revelated their true intentions and forced your kids into the worst educational choice. If all the reasons they gave in the article are true, then why did they bother with the referendum? They knew of the "problems" before they asked you to spend all that time and effort deciding (arguing?) which course of action was best for your child. Then they ignored your decision. Please remember that this is a concerted effort by the Democrat Party to shut down school districts this Fall and our local Democrats are going along with the party plan. Too bad there are no local elections this November, but I don't think people will soon forget this debacle.

BigDaddyVA

It could have been worse. Republicans and conservatives could have been in charge. Thank God they weren’t.

David Dickinson

When Republicans were in charge, your kids were in school.

BigDaddyVA

Republicans are in charge now and they won’t be in school because of them. This is a direct result of failure of leadership at the national level. Eagerly anticipating Trump’s humiliating defeat in November and cannot wait to take the country back and make America GOOD again. And thank Almighty God (who despises conservatives — Jesus was a social justice warrior, remember) Republicans are becoming an endangered species in Virginia and Loudoun County.

LoudounClear

And when they took the White House and fiddled for months while the virus raged..oh, well we lost 140,000 Americans and crashed the US economy. Maybe GOP leadership isn't such a beautiful thing.

AndrewHoya

That's a odd thing to say, David. When Democrats in were charge, we didn't have a pandemic that has killed 142,000 Americans in 5 months. So what? You do realize we are are in a pandemic?

SueMe

Wow, David. Way to rewrite recent history. You jumped over the whole COVID 19 thing. Have a blessed day.

amerigirl

Well DUH, there is no comparison to what was then and the pandemic we are having now.

David Dickinson

Democrats control Loudoun's School Board and BoS and the State (unfortunately). Education is controlled at the local level with input from the State. This school debacle is a Democrat brainchild. You are in for a shock in November.

BigDaddyVA

We are in the position we are in because of the failure of the Trump administration. As for the shock, Trump’s unfavorables are worse than Hillary’s. He will be lucky to hit triple digits with electoral college votes.

Mike Kay

David Dickinson, keeping it kooky, as usual!

amerigirl

Sure you keep thinking like the way the trump sheep. It's all political, there is no pandemic, only the old die so lock them up. People are on to him and he will never get reelected. He has lowered the status of the US to the entire world.

Duncan Idaho

"Democrat" is a noun; "Democratic" is an adjective.

Voltaire

Duncan Idaho--You are spot on correct! [thumbup]

Countyrez

I agree with Kahn's post. I would like LCPS to send me $17,500 per child so I can send them to private school for an education. Where do I send my request?

SueMe

Why would you think this is appropriate?

Countyrez

We already do it for Charter schools.

BigDaddyVA

You can send it to PO Box 666, Bite Me, VA 20111.

Qwertyuiop

Chances are you don’t pay nearly that much in taxes to the county.

amerigirl

Don't forget to include any chrome books and payments for lessons received so far with that request.

lovecountry

Was in a store last night and heard a report above on the television. No idea what outlet it was. It was interviewing an NFL family whose children gave them the virus, and they gave it to their parents. But good news, the report said, all NFL players had been tested for covid and zero tests were positive. What's the odds???

springerdad

5:39 PM PT -- The NFLPA has updated its website with a different -- and significantly lower -- number of positive cases ... 59.

The org. says the original number reflected the total number of cases (including team staffers) ... and the new number is the amount of players who have tested positive for COVID-19.

https://www.tmz.com/2020/07/21/nfl-95-players-association-covid-19-coronavirus/

LoudounClear

You are so on it for useless information. I don't even read this news site anymore I just seek out your comments for the wisdom they impart.

loudouncommonsense

I think the only folks who should be weighing in on the choices the schools made are epidemiologists. And, this is the US, not Europe. Most of Europe is far better at following the proscriptive advice of their medical experts than the "I want my freedom" crybabies who for months have insisted they don't want to wear a mask or that the virus is a hoax.

Y'all who are complaining about the school system making their decisions: they are stuck with a situation not of their making. If you want to blame anyone, blame the national leaders who didn't react when the pandemic could have been minimized.

Y'all want "local control" but when the board exercises it, you can't suck it in and recognize they are making difficult choices under difficult circumstances. You insist you could do better. Stay in your lane.

BigDaddyVA

Not enough has been made of the factor of delayed testing results. That’s a failure of leadership at the federal level because it is a product of not having a national strategy.

springerdad

We will not get a national strategy until Jan 20th 2021

MitchT

That's amusing, considering the Dem candidate was in office for 8 years and we had no national strategy. In this case, the supposed federal experts blew it and insisted on making their own test, which failed. This whole thing is another great example of the misguided belief that 1 person is somehow responsible for the actions of millions of government workers that he can't control or fire and in the large majority oppose him. And the misguided belief that 1 person in Washington can decide the best course of action for 300 million people who live in wildly varying situations and risks.

ChocolateDinosaur

“Playbook for Early Response to High-Consequence Emerging Infectious Disease Threats and Biological Incidents.”

The strategies are among hundreds of tactics and key policy decisions laid out in a 69-page National Security Council playbook on fighting pandemics. Other recommendations include that the government move swiftly to fully detect potential outbreaks, secure supplemental funding and consider invoking the Defense Production Act — all steps in which the Trump administration lagged behind the timeline laid out in the playbook.

AndrewHoya

That's just not true, Mitch. Google Obama Pandemic Playbook and read up on the fact that there was very much a playbook for exactly a pandemic like this, and was followed during the prior administration to contain outbreaks, that was not followed by the current administration.

springerdad

For many parents, the most pressing question as the nation emerges from pandemic lockdown is when they can send their children to school, camp or child care.

We asked more than 500 epidemiologists and infectious disease specialists when they expect to restart 20 activities of daily life, assuming that the coronavirus pandemic and the public health response to it unfold as they expect. On sending children to school, camp or child care, 70 percent said they would do so either right now, later this summer or in the fall — much sooner than most said they would resume other activities that involved big groups of people gathering indoors. Others, though, said they would wait for a vaccine, which could take a year or more.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/upshot/epidemiologists-decisions-children-school-coronavirus.html

ChocolateDinosaur

WTOP is reporting that less than 50% of families had chosen the hybrid model. Their actual number is closer to 40%. This seems likely accurate as this falls in line with how the population is divided on other issues right now. If mask wearing is mandatory and needed for a return to school guess what percentage of people will be fighting it and holding us back? With President Trump acquiescing to finally wearing a mask some of his supporters will fall into step so that should help. Better late than never.

BigDaddyVA

This WTOP report is factually incorrect. https://www.lcps.org/cms/lib/VA01000195/Centricity/Domain/31513/LCPS%20Return%20to%20School%202020%20Student%20Teacher%20Choices_.pdf

ChocolateDinosaur

Thank you for sharing. It does not appear that WTOP is including the 'No Selection' that were destined to the default hybrid plan. Good information, thanks again.

ace10

How is it possible that other LoCo public employees are able to safely do their jobs interacting with the great unwashed masses, yet the school system cannot?

Grocery store employees seem to be able to do their jobs.

The guy delivering pizza is working, too.

What gives?

TomPaine

Because public employees can do social distancing but we literally don't have room in the schools to have socially distance between kids. Elementary kids are hard to control and they would absolutely all be infected in short order. The chances of infecting someone if you don't have masks is in the range of 70%. One kid would bring it to all their classmates and then to the teachers and then take it home.

It's looking like a vaccine will be coming this winter so this is not a permanent situation.

Virginia SGP

You say "elementary kids ... would absolutely all be infected in short order". Yet, that has not happened in Europe. It has not happened with in-person private schools.

Pretty much every irrational fear teachers state is completely counter to the data, research and facts.

LCPS teacher

@Virginia SGP - is your ex a teacher? Were you scorned by a teacher at some point in your life? Did they not recognize you for the genius you are? Such a miserable, angry troll you are...oops....time for me to prop my feet up, have some cocoa and eat bon bon. Cheers!

Qwertyuiop

Always screaming “research” and “facts” while ignoring both. Let’s get the community transmission rate in the DMV to be on par with Europe then we can start comparing schools.

amerigirl

teachers state, is that like deep state, is this all some conspiracy? You are completely counter to the data, research and facts.if you only use life/death stats.

Loudounlistener

Correct. High school and middle are ABLE to learn remotely, elementary are NOT.

ace10

Public employees can do social distancing? On which planet do Fire, Rescue and LCSO have the ability to maintain distances?

My commentary is about the employees. Not the children. Every sign I read from the "teachers' protest" concerned their own safety. I want to know why teachers think they can't do their jobs while other public employees can.....

amerigirl

What other employees? You would have to be more specific like are being in a shut room with 20 others for an extended period of time? And what would be the point of sending kids to school if there were no teachers?

Loudounlistener

Then how do private schools do it? With half of the students not coming to school, there is enough distance to manage this. On Top of that, what about the lack of brilliant ideas here, like an AM/PM schdule?

SueMe

Oh my. So much wrong with your Unoriginal post.

Concerned1

You’ve obviously never spent much time with children! They are germ spreaders in normal times, licking, spitting, touching themselves, not washing hands....Not to mention the parents that regularly Tylenol up their kids to magically make fevers disappear so Johnny can head to school.

Virginia SGP

So that's why kids in close contact with COVID-positive students in Europe BEFORE the lockdown didn't spread it to their peers?

Or do kids in Europe just not touch each other in school as much as American kids?

Remember, these were based on contact tracing for kids who were COVID-postiive (whether we have high incidence outside of schools that COULD be brought into the school is irrelevant as Europe studied actual cases where COVID was already in the school). And it was based on students BEFORE the lockdown when social distancing measures were not in place. The study focused on "close contact" which should not happen under LCPS policiies.

Will you ever use data, research or logic for your arguments?

springerdad

First time I have seen this site. It would be great if the LTM could publish these results more often!

https://covid19-geohub-loudoungis.hub.arcgis.com/#dashboards

lovecountry

Now with that said, I want to clarify. It is not that I am against public schools and education. I just hope that with this situation people will rethink the public education system. The purpose is to collectively move our society forward and ensure that all citizens have access to knowledge. I think we are blessed to have this. I simply hope that more people will see it as a blessing and opportunity, and not as a right. I hope that more parents will start taking higher levels of responsibility for their children. I know there are great parents who are very involved with their children outside school time. I hope that people can grow through this experience to realize that children need their parents' involvement.

lovecountry

I am mean no harm and wish only the best for everyone. Here are my thoughts. I am happy that parents will be obliged to take more responsibility for their children. I think far too many people see schools as free babysitting. How many times have I heard parents say, "I can't wait for my kids to go back to school." School is not a place that you put children so that you don't have to deal with them or so that you don't have to pay a babysitter. Furthermore, students in America, in general have far too many privileges with little results when compared to children in lower income countries who don't have huge stadiums, arenas, tennis courts, etc. I have happily homeschooled my large family for the past 27 years. They have never attended a formal school before college, yet are doctors and engineers today. I have not received any tax breaks for the thousands upon thousands of dollars I have to spend on their education. Yet, I pay for schools like Heritage High who leaves on their airport lights day and night whether they are in use or not. The parking lot is always full with students cars despite all the buses running for miles to pick up children. I on the other hand work and pay for my children's activities including sports and academics. Why do I spend so much time and money on my kids? Well, frankly because they are mine. I brought them into this world, and I can't be expecting everyone else to take care of them. That is my job and my responsibility. My hope is that more people will start to realize that taking care of kids is your job. It is a good thing- a blessing, not a bad thing. It is not everyone else's job to educate and pay for the education of your children. God bless us all.

ace10

Thank you for your perspective!

lovecountry

And thank you for your reply.

Loudounlistener

Duh, of course schools are day care centers. That's why we pay taxes. Society has moved to mandate a 2-parent working environment with high mortgages and taxes. There's no way around it now.

amerigirl

You should try teaching then and see that all your students meet the SOL's. daycare, what did you do in school?

Simon

Awesome. Teachers demand more while doing less and less. I guess pandering to the teacher’s union way more important than kids during an election year. Just what we need - a new generation of less educated kids. I guess teachers can do teaching in sweats now. Good job, LCPS

SueMe

Please explain why you care what anyone wears when working from home?

BigDaddyVA

Simon, there are no teachers unions in Virginia. But this is a valid workplace safety issue.

SueMe

Are you referring to Simon’s post about teacher wardrobe?

BigDaddyVA

SueMe. Not about the wardrobe issue. I don’t understand the petty mindset of some of these people.

MitchT

BigDaddyVA, who is the Virginia Education Association that is affiliated with the NEA and claims 40,000 members in VA and calls itself a "union"?

SueMe

Oh, Mitch. You write like teachers are represented by the Teamsters. No where close to reality.

BigDaddyVA

It has no collective bargaining power, moron. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, are you?

Virginia SGP

MitchT, the LEA itslef classifies itself as a union. There are pictures of sticky notes in teacher lounges saying "we are a union".

These teacher apologists lie every single day. It's why LCPS is so horrific.

SueMe

No. But thanks for playing. Have a blessed day.

LCPS teacher

LEA is not a union and Virginia is a right to work state. Go to some place like New York or New Jersey and watch a REAL teachers union in action.

Virginia SGP

LEA defines ITSELF as a union.

Why do you think you can classify a union as something other than how it defines itself?

Loudounlistener

right. Anytime teachers begin crying about their rights, they begin public protests.

Loudounlistener

Agreed.

Countyrez

I am excited to learn about the tens of millions in savings the School Board and Williams are going to identify as they furlough bus drivers, bus attendants, school nurses, school cafeteria staff, school janitorial staff, athletic directors, librarians, teacher assistants, parent liasons, attendance officers, and savings from no coach stipends because there are no sports, music and orchestra stipends eliminated, and savings from lack of need for substitute teachers. Finally, the School Board and Williams are working to help the citizens they were elected to represent, except I feel for those they are going to furlough.

Concerned1

So what happens when they decide to return to school buildings and have a huge employee shortage?

Master Bedroom

LTM can use this idea for a headline......

William's Lied, Loudoun Education Died

SueMe

Please explain both comments. And don’t forget details

Virginia SGP

Sure.

1. Williams said only 10 desks would fit inside our classrooms when spaced 6 ft apart. Fairfax showed 16+ desks in smaller classrooms. Williams lied.

2. Williams said LCPS would not have enough teachers. Yet, over 50% signed up for in-person instruction. And resignations/retirements fell off a cliff. Only a grand total of 33 teachers out of 10K+ requested medical leave/accommodations. Williams lied.

3. Williams said medical guidance is not to send back to school right now. Dr. Goodfriend last night refuted that claim. Florida, New Jersey and Illinois are all having in-person instruction not to mention other countries who have been in school for months now with no significant outbreaks. Private schools are in-person without any casualties. Williams lied.

4. Research into virtual schools show students learn months less than in-person schools. Scores dropped by an average of 16 percentile points in math and 11 points in reading. Loudoun Education Died.

SueMe

No. But thank you for playing. Have a blessed day.

Virginia SGP

No facts, no data, no research, no logic. A typical "SueMe" comment.

SueMe

I would reply with facts and logic but you would never listen. You would only SueMe

Virginia SGP

No facts, no data, no research, no logic. Maybe we will finally get facts in a deposition.

amerigirl

Can you say where you got the stats for your second point? On the 3rd point that I insanity. Florida's education commissioner Richard Corcoran is trying to force them to open and is being sued by multiple groups. He has placed an order and the people are not happy with it. Nor can they social distance with all students attending. New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy has declared that come September schools must be open for in-school instruction, at least to some degree, it’s up to local districts and communities to decide how they meet that requirement. As yet they have received no guidance on how to do that. Illinois No guarantee Illinois schools will reopen in the fall. School districts across Illinois are planning for both scenarios, and don't have any guidelines as of yet as to what would be expected to opening up a school. On your fourth point, they still learn something, and that needs improving. But they are not risking illness and death to the kids or their family members.

amerigirl

SGP, your favorite line is No data, no research, no logic. Mine is about to become that you use limited data, limited to no research and it is very illogical.

Loudounlistener

good breakdown and crickets and ignorant responses to your listed arguments.

Virginia SGP

amerigirl, the data about Williams is from the LCPS SB presentations on BoardDocs.

CoachSez

Numbers from loudoun.gov covid dashboard this morning show that based on ZIP codes, the positivity rate in testing for covid is 10.3%, twice what is "OK"... Western Loudoun is 5.8%, Eastern Loudoun is more than twice as bad at 11.9%. But, just like when it comes to spending my tax dollars, the only thing that matters to the officials is Leesburg, Sterling, and Ashburn. Yeah, yeah, yeah, people don't all work where they live, blah blah blah. But the numbers are what they are.

Following a comment in an earlier post - yeah, there's a significant risk to our health right now every day, for any of us that leave our homes - or let anyone living with us leave our homes - and we all choose to mitigate that. I'll give credit to those who say "Don't open the schools" AND also want Walmart, Giant, and the ABC stores closed because those employees are at risk too. Oh, and they never leave home either. If you 100% quarantine yourself and your kids, then you can get up on the pedestal.

The whole school things is a conundrum for sure - but despite the zillion emails to "make your learning choice" for the Fall, the Board went lazy and caved to an illogical, nonsensical argument made by people who are likely hypocrites in their own daily lives.

BigDaddyVA

There would be more but for summer vacation. https://www.edweek.org/ew/section/multimedia/educators-weve-lost-to-the-coronavirus.html?override=web

mover

Thanks for sharing big Daddy. So sad, but will not make a difference to many in these threads until it is them or a family member sadly enough....Lot of people under on this list too.

Virginia SGP

mover, so your position is that if a family member acquires COVID, our minds will change?

I have a vulnerable member who acquired and recovered. No concerns whatsoever.

The fatality rate for kids who contract COVID is less than 0.0016%. The rate for adults aged 20-49 is 0.0092%. It's even lower for healthy adults/kids as those with underlying conditions are 12x more likely to die (making up most of that risk).

Irrational fear is not something to be proud of.

hardestworkingamerican

It int real stop spreading FAKE NEWS

amerigirl

SGP, do you know how lucky your ‘vulnerable member’ was? Maybe that’s why you have no concerns, because you don’t have anyone that has suffered to any degree or died from it. I have had a friend that died without having any underlying conditions and was under 40 years old. You are being irrational thinking that it is alright for people to get sick, suffer side effects like strokes, as long as they live through it when there is an alternative.

Virginia SGP

So a research study from a Swiss group out of Geneva (with Johns Hopkins experts included) is "fake news"? What exactly is a published medical research paper then?

We don't goven by anecdotes. We make decisions based on data and knowledge. It sounds like you are saying if anyone could die from COVID, we should shut down. While that is a potential position, I don't think the public agrees that there must be 0.00000000% risk before we return to school. A teenager died of the flu this year. Does that mean we should shut down school in the winter months? What exactly is your criteria other than you know someone who went to band camp and ....? Can you articulate a quantifiable risk number that would allow kids to return?

khan

Well played Eric Williams. Well played. How can parents be assured that this vote is the real and final vote? We have only had two and the summer is half over. Three if you count the parent survey for which they won't be accountable.

So, we have a school budget of 1.4 billion. We have 84,000 students. That comes out to 17,500.00 and change a year on each student. How many of the disenfranchised parents, (who will now have their children miss a years worth of schooling), would like to get that 17,500.00 a year, so that they could find a private solution, willing to actually educate their children?

This is clearly a case where the government is more concerned about the people that work within the government that the folks who pay into the government or the customers (students).

If the teachers are so worried about health issues, let them zoom into the classrooms from the safety of home and have the children, (who are more likely to be hit by a car or lightning than catch COVID go into the classrooms and receive instruction there).

Master Bedroom

What Khan said![thumbup]

Mr Fact Check

Kids hit by a car or lightning..C'mon man that is a terrible analogy! And so what if my kid missing a year of In-Class teaching...They have a better chance of being Covid-19 free...I will take that! People send their kids to school all the time with fevers, running noses etc...

So NOT what Khan said for 1000 Alex [thumbdown]..#GETYALLLIFE

Master Bedroom

Fact Check....Khan was using a statistical comparison and not an analogy. Its a simple concept.

A kid is more likely to get hit by a car than die from Covid 19. No one here wants any kid to have either experience.

Please, keep your kids home for a year. You have that option, but let the rest of us send our kids to school. This age group needs the interaction with teachers and peers.

Loudounlistener

Well said!

FCPS educator

Where are your facts Mr. Fact Check - schools are open and opening around the world with very little impact with regard to COVID- kids need to be in school - distance learning for the majority of students will not work and the impact on elementary students will be felt through out their school lives - and many will never recover - if you want to keep your kids home fine - let the rest of get on with living.

Master Bedroom

What FCPS said [thumbup][thumbup]

BigDaddyVA

Americans haven’t done the hard work necessary to open schools. And your contention that DL is not living is bizarre.

Mr Fact Check

FCPS EDUCATOR Who said kids need to be in school during a Pandemic?

Here is a FACT...They want be in Loudoun County for the First Semester...#FACTS

Safety is Paramount are at lease it should be and I am glad the board agrees...We all are going to get on living while helping to educate our kids thru DLing!

Loudounlistener

well said Khan!

SpikedArrow

Excellent comments, sir! [thumbup][thumbup]

David Dickinson

I hope all you LCPS parents now see how little LCPS cares about you and your kids' education. They have manipulated you for years.

khan

They even claimed that they will be saving enough money to give a raise to teachers. A raise for less work? How can I get in on this? If there is any money left over, and frankly, there should be because anyone who has not performed their actual job for a year in the private sector would be laid off, that excess money should be returned to the parents so that they can find alternative means of educating their children.

SueMe

I dis not hear that. Are you positive are are you making this up. The step increases are being release because the State is restoring funding levels. It is not coming from savings from shutting down buildings.

JustMe

I have a neighbor who teaches at one of the well known Catholic private schools and he said that his workload went way up when he was teaching his students through distance learning with his students this past spring. He said the lesson planning and prep time for teaching online was way more time consuming than live instruction. Not defending raises, but the comment on less work is not a reality. A shift in how they work, yes. But less is highly debateable.

Virginia SGP

They work less. The lessons are the same. Maybe they never had competent lessons to begin with. And many teachers are technologically illiterate. But giving a presentation in class is no different than giving one online. Except that kids are distracted, teachers cannot read body language or gauge understanding, and kids get no socialization.

SueMe

Oh, Virginia SGP. Like the little engine, you keep chugging along. I wonder if you will ever climb that hill. Have a blessed day.

LCPS teacher

@JustMe - you are correct on every count. Virginia SGP would tell you otherwise, but he's never stepped foot in a school as an educator. HE KNOWS NOTHING. He blathers on here because he's got no one else to listen to him.

Loudounlistener

Our elementary teacher had 2 45 minute sessions per week with her class. That's not a lot of work...

CommonSenseIsUnCommon

1) I love democracy where everyone can have an opinion and it can be different from others. We have the ability to speak our passions and influence decisions.

2) Tax refunds? - When I go on vacation somewhere I don't get to not pay my mortgage or rent do I while I am gone? I still have to pay for the utilities and upkeep! SO do the schools, they cannot just not maintain buildings and their contents.

3) There will be many people impacted by this decision. Some will be positive impacts and some will be negative. New choices will be developed and new options will be created as we go through this new age of learning.

4) Why did LCPS follow everyone else? Why did LCPS make a decision without looking at other districts? These are to 2 opposing questions thrown around every time a decision is made that somebody or some group does not directly agree with. These are all humans all trying their best to make decisions based on many factors. Sometimes they get it right and sometimes they get it wrong....but let's be constructive with our criticisms. Feel free to run for an elected position next time, you may be able to do better.

5) I struggle with the entire impact of COVID-19 to our community. Wear a mask, don't wear a mask. Go to school, stay home. Go to work, stay home. Social Distance, just small gatherings. We are all struggling and none of us have all the answers.

In closing, I feel we all need to consider all input to help form our opinions. However, we also have to accept all input that is not in support of our opinion. That is the challenge of great leaders and decision makers. They must weigh all sides of every decision, form an opinion based on all factors at the time, make a decision....but the most important part is be willing and able to change that opinion or stance when the factors change. I wish the best to our students, parents, staff and community as we all struggle to adapt and learn to the new world we live in.

springerdad

LCS -

When you go on vacation you save money by not driving your car if you are flying. Your water usage and food costs for your house go to zero. You probably turn up or down the heat while you are away which saves you money. If you have a cleaning person you will not need them and therefore you will save money.

As a business person you know full well that there are many costs besides just the upkeep on the buildings. The cost of materials used for classrooms will disappear. There will be no busing costs the associated maintenance costs. The cost of feeding the students will be greatly reduced. I am sure I am leaving out a great many other cost savings.

It is the same reason why automobile policies are being given discounts. The less you use something the lower the overall cost and there for a refund is given.

khan

Input? Parents took a survey to which the board has never been accountable. Input? We had a decision just two weeks ago that parent were forced to choose between two bad alternatives (hybrid or virtual) Input? the only input we will get is at the voting booth.

Charles Houston

#4.The School System has a long history of following other counties to justify spending. The School Board has a long history of rubber-stamping whatever the System wants.LCPS has a long history of not fully informing the Board. Thus this is not a surprise. What would be a surprise is a School Board with no PTA or LCPS ties, just common sense (which disqualifies me.)

Mr Fact Check

@ Master Bedroom...what CommonSenseIsUnCommon said[thumbup]...[beam]

Heels63

I'm sure that all you fear mongers that wanted the DL have kept your kids in the house all summer, wouldn't let them work, wouldn't let them go to the beach, wouldn't let them hang out with their friends, wouldn't let them go to any stores. That's the case, right? Otherwise, what's the difference? Look at the facts, not the mainstream media that has a vested interest in keeping people scared.

BigDaddyVA

Maybe pry yourself away from the QAnon Twitter feeds for a few minutes and ask the people of Florida, Texas and Arizona about their allegations that this was all “fear mongering” promoted by “the media” with “vested interest” a few months ago what they think now.

Matthew

You can have your safe space "BigDaddy," Let the adults with an ounce of remaining common sense and the children lead the way for you!

BigDaddyVA

Matthew. Buddy. I’m not the one whining like the sky has fallen and making stupid demands for refunds. Don’t talk to me about safe spaces. I have never seen such a bunch of fragile morons before in my life. “This school system sucks! Oh no, I can’t send my kids to that sucky school!” Grow up and deal with it. You wouldn’t have lasted a day during WWII.

Voltaire

BigDaddyVA--OK. Who again granted you the "moral authority" to make judgments on people's character such as calling people morons? Oh, that's right NOBODY. It hasn't stopped you from making holier than thou statements. The last time that I looked out the window this was the United States and people in this country can "whine" "complain" whenever they want to and there is ZERO you can do about it. You need to grow up and deal with it. Finally, you are making an unsubstantiated claim about whether people today would be able to last a day during WWII. You have NO evidence to make that claim.

amerigirl

Volt who are you to pass judgment of whether he thinks a bunch of people are morons or not? He didn't name anyone person or attack a single commentor.

Voltaire

AG—did I say that I was making a judgment? No, you are making that assumption. My original comment pointed out that nobody has given BigDaddyVA the right to make unsubstantiated/unsupportable character judgments on people. A good illustration is this blanket statement: “I have never seen such a bunch of fragile morons before in his life.” That is a character judgment, whether you like it or not is immaterial. That is wrong. As to your question, I have just as much right to call this out as you do. You have done it various times to other posters on various postings. It is hypocritical to attack me for doing the same thing.

Heels63

You never really answered any of my questions. Did you keep your kids locked up in their room all summer? If you don't why is that any different than allowing the kids to go to school and get a real education.

BigDaddyVA

Please explain how a vacation at a lake in which we cooked meals inside and kept our distance from others is exactly like cramming hundreds or thousands of kids and adults into poorly ventilated school buildings for 10 hours a day are the same thing. I will wait.

amerigirl

How many people are those kids being exposed to at home? They are not traveling back and forth on a bus with another set of children and driver and then exposing it to their family.

dbressette

Perhaps if more people had done what you outlined above, we would be in a much better position as a country. Instead, we decided we were done with COVID and an 8 week lockdown would solve it. The virus still exists. We have to work around the virus, not the other way around.

JustMe

I picked distance learning for my middle school student not on fear, but because the distance model provided 50% more instruction time than in the hybrid model. Days not in school with the hybrid model kids were on their own to learn and do assignments. If it would have been balanced hours where the hybrid kid received online instruction on the days not in school (vs. figure it out), then I would have selected the hybrid model.

BigDaddyVA

It didn’t have double the instruction time. But it did allow for face time twice a week instead of once. The block schedule and hybrid was a bad model.

doverboy

Knowing that this was a looming issue and decision has any parent, or group of parents made any attempt to arrange for their student to attend DL at another parent home? All I see and hear is divisive comments about Eric Williams and certain individuals on the comment section calling out anyone who disagrees as a racist but I have not heard of parents bonding together to make this work for their children. There has been no playbook with the Corona Virus. Stop complaining and start working together to make this work. One day we can all hope that there will be a queue in the school doorway giving each child a vaccination for the virus, as they did in the 60's with polio vaccines. Until that day is here, work together Loudoun, you are better than all this bickering

Science over Fear

Did you just compare a virus that is less lethal than flu in people under 70 and pretty much no risk at all to 99.996% of all children all over the world to polio? You do know COVID is less lethal than flu in people under 70 with the flu vaccine so how low do you want the risk to go? Our children are much more at risk to die of violence, suicide, flu and pretty much everything on the planet than COVID. So sad.

doverboy

No, and if you want to start with comparisons over 500K people died each year from polio before the vaccine was ready and cities did not quarantine the city, they quarantined the family. BUT since the country is finding new information on a daily basis and there is no gain from bickering we NEED to work together to get through this until there is a vaccine or a means to mitigate the spread and severity of the illness once contracted. Any school can function if 100 kids are out sick. Can any school function if 100 teachers are out sick? Can kids get to school if 100 bus drivers are out sick? Can a school function if 100 maintenance people are out sick? The scary part is that once a vaccine is ready some will argue that they wont vaccinate against Corona and cite another false Brittish study

Anonmom

New headline. LCPS kneels for the teachers union on the necks of our children.

You will NEVER convince me they made this decision for the good of students education.

And by the way last I checked this is still America, at least until November 3rd, and I still have a right to my opinion even if it differs from yours.

BigDaddyVA

There are no teachers unions in Virginia. However, this is appropriately viewed as primarily a workplace safety issue. Many employees are dealing with the same.

Mr Fact Check

Wow...Do you tuck your kids in with the same hands that just typed that..."Kneeling on the Necks of our Children"... How UNAMERICAN OF YOU, to make a statement like that...at lease you did acknowledge that Donald Duck will exiting stage left very soon though[wink]...

SueMe

Congratulations for winning the award for the most racist comment on a thread about public schools

ace10

The term "racist" doesn't mean what you think it does.

SueMe

Maybe not. Using the concept of kneeling on someone’s neck, though, is definitely a racist comment

ace10

You're proving my point. This is really painful to read.

amerigirl

Seriously you think that proved your point? Maybe you should look up racist

Virginia SGP

Spot on.

The racist school board put the selfish interests of entitled, white teachers over the needs of disadvantaged, minority students. There is no scientific basis to do this. They literally gave out $1000s to each affluent white teacher while forcing low-income minority working parents to shell out $10K+ for daycare because teachers refuse to work. That is the most racist thing I have seen in my 47 years.

BigDaddyVA

Your concern trolling is duly noted.

AndrewHoya

LOL. You should start paying attention. You've lived a sheltered 47 years.

SueMe

No. But thanks for playing. Have a blessed day.

Virginia SGP

So we have 3 different apologists, none of which can dispute anything I say.

Teachers, 80%+ of whom are white, are highly paid and getting 6% raises.

Minority LCPS students (most are now) are banished to their homes where low-income working parents must shell out $10K+ to provide daycare they cannot afford.

Kids have virtually no risk to the virus. The CDC even says COVID is much less risky for kids than the flu.

There is no better example of intentional, systemic racism that the decision to throw money at teachers harly working at home while destroying the education of minority students and forcing their parents to shell out $10K for care.

SueMe

No. But thanks for playing. Have a blessed day.

Virginia SGP

No data, no research, no logic. What else is new for "SueMe".

AndrewHoya

You hate teachers. I get that. You'll always take the anti-teacher position on any topic.

I'll acknowledge that this will greatly impact people with the inability to work from home (like yourself apparently), and that's too bad. Are those people mostly non-white? Probably a higher percentage than those that can work from home, but I don't have the data.

If you think teachers are highly paid, I'm really sorry for your situation. To have a master's degree and be making what they do....I wouldn't envy that. I don't think they are as bad off as they like to present, but highly paid? That's either hyperbole or you are really hard off.

Speaking of hyperbole, this is the greatest example of racism that you've seen in 47 years? You're right, I can't dispute that. Maybe it is the greatest instance you've ever experienced. I'm just commenting that if that's truly the case, you've lived an incredibly sheltered life. An incredibly sheltered life where you think teachers are highly paid....

I don't think I said anything that made me an apologist. I'm just baffled at your situation.

khan

Across the world, schools are opening and the kids are not getting infected. You want examples, read the links below:

https://edsource.org/2020/safety-measures-in-schools-across-globe/634801

https://www.axios.com/europe-lessons-reopening-schools-b713801e-26d6-4ba1-bb9e-c0b0b5809a11.html

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/10/european-school-reopeningsreduce-virus-concerns-for-most-312595

amerigirl

Kahn please look at the references you sent. The first is about what safety measures will be put in place. The second says that “Harder-hit countries, like France or Belgium, contained the spread through lockdowns before bringing students back — something the U.S. has largely failed to do.” And the third says cases keep on being detected through increased testing, which is not happening up to par in this country. It says how much kids are getting infected, and that some places are doing virtual and classroom learning. It even says “They reopened the schools in all of these countries where there was a very low baseline rate of infection,” that is not comparable to the US.

Badcoach

Brian, you stole 2000 total from 10 parents/families that you agreed to coach last year in basketball based on your performance as a coach. You have no room to talk.

Virginia SGP

Interesting take. There were a lot of good coaches who volunteered their time including a repeat coach who had coached my kid the previous season. As I recall, that team may not have won a game but they learned a lot and he was an awesome coach. He taught fundamentals to help the kids learn the game as opposed to short-term gimmicky offenses. I was excited he was my son's coach.

Admittedly, there are different approaches to coaching. Some kids threw the evaluations so they would be rated poorly and more likely to be picked up on a stacked team. At the draft, several of the veteran coaches noted this. The fact that kids/parents are essentially trying to cheat the system shocked me. I also played every kid the same amount of game time (if 1 kid is absent, you can play better players 75% and the less skilled players 50%) until the playoffs. Rec league is about getting better, not trying to have the best regular season record. Although I do admit I played our more skilled more in the playoffs. In our second game, we were down 4 against the #1 ranked team (and eventual chamion) with just a couple minutes left. But hey, we did finish 2-LOT so certainly there were better coaches.

I assume you are suggesting that whoever the Dodgers, Yankees, or Red Sox coaches are each year must be great because of their win records, right? Have you ever heard of advanced stats? Why do they have those? Are those things kind of like SGPs or MAP growth scores? Hmmmmm. So maybe it's not a great idea to conclude LCPS is good because of SOLs (without looking at MAP) or teams are high-achieving because of win-loss records alone.

amerigirl

Seriously you are using that to try to prove they are racist? The teachers are not all white, not all the kids are disadvantaged, minority students. Very twisted

loudouncommonsense

It's getting tiring reading the comments that say "no kids have died" from covid.

If you say that you are either:

-woefully ignorant of the dynamics of the virus' transmission vectors and the facts; (blindly stupid comes to mind) or,

-incalculably self centered and uncaring about your neighbors and community

During normal times, we can afford to be either or both and not necessarily cause harm to others. With covid it is no less than immoral and intolerable to be either.

gtrunner

I don’t think you can say a child died who wore a mask and maintained social distancing.

Science over Fear

So all of Europe and Asia are immoral? Why can’t we protect nursing homes and folks over 70 who have a significant co-morbidity while going about our lives as we have done with infectious disease for hundreds of years? What is your target IFR for COVID to where we can live our lives again? The IFR is already half of flu in folks 70 and younger so how low do you want it to go? Did you stop driving your car? Stop going to the grocery store? Stop getting your mail or delivering packages to your house? Are Amazon and grocery workers more disposable than teachers? Is education not essential?

LIfetimeLoudouner

Yes let’s trust the experts. The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends kids go back full time. According to the CDC In Virginia there have been NO deaths under 25 and only 188 nationally. This year there have been almost 3x the amount of deaths from pneumonia than for covid for those under 25yo. So don’t say it is to protect the kids. That’s a bald faced lie. If that were the case schools would be shut down permanently. This has more to do with staff and maybe a whiff of politics mixed in.

The number one thing the schools should be concerned about is educating our kids. Yes safety is important but science tells us that they will be safe.

Stop playing politics and using our kids as pawns. Try to get your facts straight before you make ignorant accusations about others who I actually read the studies.

amerigirl

The American Academy of Pediatrics made that recommendation in June before there were huge numbers of the virus in the US. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have advised that remote learning is the safest option. In Virginia there have been 4 deaths under 30, but also 470 that were so sick they needed to be hospitalized. Deaths are not the only thing to use. Kids go home and they need someone there when they get there, to think otherwise would be a boldfaced lie. I think you will find that the rate of death will be high every year because if you die from old age you have probably died in your sleep or died from pneumonia. That count also includes flu deaths. If they are distance learning then the number one concern would be education, not wondering why a kid is coughing or looking flush. This issue should be safety not politics. Take the politics out of it, the only reason trump wants schools open is so people can all go back to work, push his numbers up and boost his reelection. He could care less about what happens to the kids after that. Maybe you should loo into what the side effect are that cause those hospitalizations before you start promoting getting kids back to school.

ace10

I'm curious how teachers with school age children of their own are going to manage delivering FULL TIME education to the children of the other parents in Loudoun.

Anonmom

Ace- Great point. Maybe they should be required to go into their empty classrooms, sans their own children, to go to work as all of us do on a daily basis?

BigDaddyVA

That makes no sense. Why do you care where they work? You aren’t their supervisor and it’s not your job to monitor them. To answer the original question, I am guessing their kids will be online learning while the parent is teaching. Is this really that hard to understand?

Virginia SGP

Well, they need only work 3 hrs/day while on live instruction. And they can partially focus on their own children during that time too. Imagine being paid to take care of your own kids?

If/when hybrid arrives, LCPS is planning to provide spots 4 days/week for all the teachers. Only then do taxpaying citizens get their kids in the schools 2 days/week. This is courtesy of LCPS teachers and their union.

Seems perfectly fair, right?

Oh, and LCPS plans to give welfare (in true 1984 doublespeak, they call it "income continuation") to employees who have nothing to do during the DL model. Your tax dollars at work. And don't forget the 6% raise to all these employees doing nothing at home.

BigDaddyVA

Where do you get this mistaken notion that they are working 3 hours a day? You are always wrong but never in doubt. It’s tiresome.

dbressette

Agreed. SGP is completely tiresome. He is also clearly not a teacher if he thinks teachers only work 3 hours a day.

AndrewHoya

Well said. He's not always the smartest person in the room, but always so sure that he is. Always displaying so much confidence in his wrongness.

Virginia SGP

No data, no research, no logic. I am unaware of anyone claiming they are ever the smartest person in any room. But you two always qualify as some of the dumbest.

yellowbird

There was not a raise (False). Do we get a tax refund on our Federal dollars as well since Federal Gov't cannot work onsite (sarcasm)? Work is still getting done to the best we can remote. We need to get through this instead of bickering and throwing around useless/repetitive statements.

mover

It will not stop yellowbird. It is continual but when people have so much hate against a noble profession and people give their heart and soul to kids and in modern times play police officer in many districts there in for sure Karma, Those who spew out lies and hate will eventually have it come back to them for sure. I just don't see how in the world people have hour after hour, day after day to write lengthy responses on so many forums and do their job in whatever job they have. Maybe they are the ones OVERPAID!!

ace10

Are you familiar with the term "gaslighting?"

It's where someone repeats a lie or denies something so as to make the intended victim question that which is real.

Teachers are receiving raises. A massive one. You're lying if you say otherwise.

Virginia SGP

There is absolutely a raise. The SB officially requested the BOS allow them to use the reserved funds to give 6% raises to school employees (teachers) because (a) LCPS budgets a slush fund and (b) the county thinks tax revenues from the higher tax rate will mostly come through.

Why would you state such lies on a public forum? Do you live in an alternate universe?

amerigirl

SGP, the school board froze funds last may, has that changed? Where did you get the info?

AndrewHoya

My work is allowing me to work from home and be with my kids. Just about everyone else I know is in the exact same boat. I don't have to imagine that. You should get a better job.

ace10

You're enjoying a privilege that many other Loudouners do not.

Suggesting that they should "get a better" job is might not be a valid option for everyone. How about you try a little harder on the empathy thing, mmmmkay?

Virginia SGP

No employer, other than LCPS, tells their employees "don't worry about doing your job, just take care of your kids all day".

That is exactly the reason teachers were not required to teach in Q4. And it is why teachers only have to teach 3 hrs/day for DL. Teachers are getting a 6% raise for working half as much. And have zero accountability. Next, we'll hear LCPS whine about having to allow students to take SOL or MAP tests.

AndrewHoya

Ace, you're right. My point was purely directed at SGP. My point was just that he likes to complain about things that teachers have access to just because he hates teachers. I'd be willing to bet that he makes significantly more than a teacher and gets to work at home with his kids during a pandemic, but those things aren't good enough for teachers in his world, because he hates them. He's not an hourly employee in hospitality looking for daycare. Yes, everybody doesn't have access to these things, but teachers with a master's degree and a salaried career...yeah, people at that point in life do have access to these things, like I do, like my neighbors do, like he should too. If he truly doesn't have access to these things as an educated person with a career, then he needs to realize that HE is the outlier, not teachers. Obviously there are many people that aren't as fortunate based on the hand they've been dealt, but pretty sure SGP isn't one of them. I certainly have empathy for people struggling during this time (including teachers), and I should do a better job at displaying it. However, it's hard to have empathy for a guy like SGP who comes on every single article relating to LCPS for the past decade to bash them.

amerigirl

I wonder f his kids are even living with him. I would really pity them.

AndrewHoya

Are you working today? I see you have about 20 posts on this thread from all hours of the day. Can you imagine an employer that that allows its employees to argue ALL day on comment sections? Seems pretty trivial compared to caring for your kids. But God forbid a teacher gets to work from home and be with their kids (like everyone else)?

Concerned1

Aren’t most parents working from home these days being “paid to watch their own kids”?

lmcknight

This is awful. Eric and others on the board should quit. If you won't Nov is coming we will vote you out

BigDaddyVA

imcknight, talk about empty threats. None of them are up for re-election for another three and a half years.

applicant45554

amazing change of events. What is the endgame? Nothing could change regarding this virus for years. Are we waiting for a vaccine? The teachers union is then going to argue the vaccine’s not safe or effective enough. Sad as it is, COVID is here to stay. When are we going back to school? I think it could be several years. The public employees unions are very powerful and the voters in Loudoun support them.

Mr Fact Check

I think the end game is keeping Loudoun Students and Teachers safe, until they come up with a better solution than a hybrid model...But I could be wrong![beam]